Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[boy popoy]

Again, where is the P170 billion? You're all speculations. When you have something substantial to answer regarding the P170 billion, get back to me.

 

By the way, how sure are you that GetRealPhilippines is propaganda? Is it because they don't favor the yellowtards?

 

 

P170 billion recovered is a fact and not speculation. Stop trolling the internet with your half-truths.

 

 

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/398199/news/nation/pcgg-eyes-full-accounting-of-p168-b-recovered-marcos-ill-gotten-wealth

 

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/02/25/1556605/p170-b-ill-gotten-wealth-recovered-marcoses-cronies

 

http://news.abs-cbn.com/video/nation/v1/02/18/16/pcgg-laments-slow-recovery-of-marcos-ill-gotten-wealth

 

http://cnnphilippines.com/news/2015/11/25/timeline-marcos-ill-gotten-wealth-jewels-properties-paintings.html

 

 

 

Im not sure which one you might consider yellow media, so I gave you a few options.

 

Im sorry I know you prefer to gather your news from getrealphilippines, but I just couldnt find any articles from that site.

[camiar]

 

 

P170 billion recovered is a fact and not speculation. Stop trolling the internet with your half-truths.

 

 

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/398199/news/nation/pcgg-eyes-full-accounting-of-p168-b-recovered-marcos-ill-gotten-wealth

 

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/02/25/1556605/p170-b-ill-gotten-wealth-recovered-marcoses-cronies

 

http://news.abs-cbn.com/video/nation/v1/02/18/16/pcgg-laments-slow-recovery-of-marcos-ill-gotten-wealth

 

http://cnnphilippines.com/news/2015/11/25/timeline-marcos-ill-gotten-wealth-jewels-properties-paintings.html

 

 

 

Im not sure which one you might consider yellow media, so I gave you a few options.

 

Im sorry I know you prefer to gather your news from getrealphilippines, but I just couldnt find any articles from that site.

 

Yan ba ang pinaniniwalaan mo? Yellow oligarch controlled media like ABS-CBN, PhilStar and Inquirer and a US news agency.

 

Of the claimed 170 Billion, they say 70 Billion of that was coco levy fund. That was not Marcos wealth - that's Cojuangco's.

The rest are properties and corporation of dubious assessed values. None of which are proven to be Marcos-owned.

 

Admittedly, there are personal properties like jewelries and paintings, but again of dubious assessed values. And even if they were confiscated from the Marcoses, they are insignificant in amount compared to PCGG's "estimated" US$10 Billion of allegedly stolen wealth.

 

PCGG says they are unsuccessful in recovering the "Ill-gotten wealth" due to "missing documents and evidence", "witnesses who have already died or cannot be located", as well as other excuses. I interpret that as no evidence, and no witness, therefore, no case to pursue.

[boy popoy]

 

Yan ba ang pinaniniwalaan mo? Yellow oligarch controlled media like ABS-CBN, PhilStar and Inquirer and a US news agency.

 

So lahat ba ng magbalita ng masama tungkol kay Marcos ay yellow media?

 

Of the claimed 170 Billion, they say 70 Billion of that was coco levy fund. That was not Marcos wealth - that's Cojuangco's.

The rest are properties and corporation of dubious assessed values. None of which are proven to be Marcos-owned.

 

Excactly! And everyone knows that Danding Cojuanco was a Marcos crony.

 

Admittedly, there are personal properties like jewelries and paintings, but again of dubious assessed values. And even if they were confiscated from the Marcoses, they are insignificant in amount compared to PCGG's "estimated" US$10 Billion of allegedly stolen wealth.

 

PCGG says they are unsuccessful in recovering the "Ill-gotten wealth" due to "missing documents and evidence", "witnesses who have already died or cannot be located", as well as other excuses. I interpret that as no evidence, and no witness, therefore, no case to pursue.

 

I interpret this as a successful plunder by the Marcoses. So successful that he made it to #2 of Forbes top 10 most corrupt leaders in the world. (siguro yellow owned din ang Forbes)

Edited August 28, 2016 by boy popoy

[everyman]

Identified and proven na kasali sa matrix ng Yellow Army according to intelligence reports:

 

!. Forbes Magazine

2. New York Times

3. Washington Post

4. Amnesty International

5. Transparency International

 

Yung iba isisiwalat ko sa tamang panahon (ang kumontra isasama ko sa matrix)

[punkee]

Fact: Marcos declared Martial Law because communism was becoming a clear and present danger to the country.

 

Dumb yellowtard myth: Marcos declared Martial Law to prolong himself in power and abuse and torture Filipinos.

more like the other way around. almost.

Edited August 30, 2016 by punkee

[punkee]

Try debunking it intelligently than posting a simpleton reply like this reply.

pasensya na po. aminado ko naman na ang talino mo e. you dont have to rub it in that i am so inferior to you, in vocabulary and intelligence. the words you use just come so natural to you. unscripted. should i tell the mods about your post, like you do? or maybe i wont be able to compose a coherent post, because i am just a simpleton.

 

at para hindi OT: i just find it hard to believe that all those complainants against Marcos are mythical creatures. and that they created those stories in such consistent detail. ang galing naman ng yellow army for coming up with such an extravagant script, and it stands even if they are not in power anymore.

[boy popoy]

 

Again, prove it. As far as I know, Marcos has never been convicted of anything. Human rights abuses? Hidden wealth? Corruption? Nasan ang conviction?

 

 

You do not need conviction to prove abuses or corruption (like Marcos, Hitler and Bin Laden was never convicted). You have local and international media as well as thousands of witnesses accounting for human rights abuses; Add to that, judgements from local and international courts against the Marcos estate compensating the victims. Then you have the $4 Billion dollars sequestered by the PCGG from the Marcoses ill-gotten wealth. We've been through all this already pa ulit ulit lang. Now, if you are just going to dismiss that as yellow media, yellow conspiracy, yellow propaganda,... whatever, then you are a hopeless case.

 

"IGNORANCE CAN BE EDUCATED, BUT THERE IS NO CURE FOR STUPID"

 

I can respect the loyalists who acknowledge the crimes yet still support Marcos, but not the "turds" who outright deny the atrocities despite the facts presented to them.

Edited August 30, 2016 by boy popoy

[everyman]

I know about NYT and AI but the other three, I did not know that they are part of the yellow matrix.

 

1. Forbes Magazine - put Marcos in the All-Time Most Corrupt Leader list at #2, malamang nagkadayaan sa PCOS kaya di #1, maka-dilaw kasi eh, mga bayarang mamahayag ng elitistang magasin

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eedh45fgjme/ferdinand-marcos/#1dd1f5ee64d6

 

3. Washington Post - together with the New York Times, exposed the fake Marcos medals in 1983, the timing was highly suspect because at the time, Marcos was running for re-election during the 198... er, 1986 Presidential election. Basta! It was just a political demolition job to favor the yellowturds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1983/12/18/the-marcos-mystery-did-the-philippine-leader-really-win-the-us-medals-for-valorhe-exploits-honors-he-may-not-have-earned/2af4be05-5b92-4612-a223-d379780991c6/?utm_term=.983c12bd03ce

 

5. Transparency International - published a comprehensive report in 2004 on Global Corruption putting Marcos at #2 (na naman?! Comelec ba nagpapalakad nito?) most corrupt leader amassing $5-$10 Billion during his reign. Can you believe there was not even a mention of Cory Aquino in this list? Smells fishy, diba? Yellow Media ito for sure.

https://www.transparency.org/whatwedo/publication/global_corruption_report_2004_political_corruption

 

 

Sige, magbibigay pa ako ng mga ibang kasama sa Yellow Matrix para maliwanagan tayo gaano kalaki ang conspiracy against Ferdinand Marcos because he saved the Philippines from the Communists who threatened to take over the country:

 

6. Time Magazine - Cory Aquino on the cover, twice! 'Nuff said.

 

7. Newsweek - xerox copy ng Time Magazine, 'Nuff said.

 

8. LA Times - during the 80's, reported negative things about the Marcoses, among them, the surrender of a bank to the US/Philippine government by Marcos crony Roberto Benedicto to escape prosecution. Linaglag si Marcos, naknamputs. Another is an article titled. " The Shameful Marcos Legacy." Need I say more? Definitely bayaran ito.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-04-22/news/mn-384_1_philippine-government

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-09-29/local/me-14_1_marcos-years

[everyman]

Like I said and I will say it again. Hitler gave a directive to exterminate the Jews. Bin Laden declared war on America. Marcos never gave a directive to torture and k*ll Filipinos indiscriminately. Wrong analogy. Yes, paulit-ulit lang kasi mali-mali analogy mo. You need a conviction in order to decide if Marcos really was responsible for those alleged atrocious acts. He was never convicted, hence, he died an innocent man.

 

So where did the $4 billion go?

 

Heed your own advice.

 

 

I think somebody will disagree with you on this. Easyhan mo lang pagbatikos sa kabobohan nito, bagito pa e.

 

[everyman]

Understand what BBM said. He said that he was knowledgeable about every military operation. Did BBM say that he directed the AFP to torture and k*ll Filipinos indiscriminately.

 

 

No need to Salvador Panelo the tweet. I'm sure Little Boy Marcos knows what he is saying.

[everyman]

Gusto mo ibandera si Gillegos na peke medals ni Marcos. Check this out:

 

This is from Rod Kapunan's column dated August 13, 2016.

 

 

 

Hindi ako mapagyabang pards, ad hominem yan haha

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by everyman

[everyman]

Bonifacio Gillego (1921-2002) - soldier, a World War 2 veteran, also fought in Korea and Laos, a three-term Congressman from Sorsogon. Better known as the diligent researcher who doubted Marcos' WW2 exploits and proceeded to do the legwork in unraveling the Marcos fake medals. His research consisted of interviews with WW2 veterans and colleagues of Marcos. He was the first one to request access to U.S. Military Archives that dealt with Marcos in WW2. However, he was denied access, being identified with the anti-Marcos movement. Eventually, an American historian, Alfred McCoy stumbled on the Marcos documents while researching on a related subject matter.

 

Bonifacio Gillego's research was set to be published in the Washington Post in 1982, in time for then-President Marcos' State Visit. However, pressure was made to bear on the newspaper not to proceed with the publication. It was put on hold until December of 1983 when it finally saw print.

 

 

 

 

 

I have not seen Bonifacio Gillego's research online so I cannot comment on it as yet. However the research done by the National Historical Commission of the Philippines more than 30 years later with the benefit of time, technology and first-hand sources at its disposal, I think, is more than enough proof for me. Solid research by reputable historians, san ka pa?

 

Juan Ponce Enrile more credible than historians from the NHCP? Fake ambush, anyone?

[everyman]

I never knew Marcos was once included as an awardee of the US Medal of Honor:

 

 

 

Boni was instrumental in getting the portrait of Marcos removed from an exhibit of the awardees of the US Medal of Honor in New York. Boni had challenged the officer-in-charge to show proof of the validity of the inclusion of Marcos’ portrait.

 

http://www.bantayog.org/?p=1554

[everyman]

I wasn't attacking your person. I was just stating that you liked showing the allegations of Gillegos. That is why I used the verb "ibandera". Now, regarding the alleged fake medals of Marcos, check out Enrile's interview at the "Kapihan sa Manila Hotel". In that interview, he doubted the allegations of Gillegos.

 

 

"Pinagyayabang mo si Gillegos diba?" was your exact words. Check the screenshot.

 

I do not like showing the allegations of Bonifacio Gillego. Di ko pa nga nabasa eh. I mentioned it once in reply to camiar regarding local veterans' testimonies. I do, however, like to bring up the more exhaustive research of the National Historical Commission of the Philippines. Astig ang primary sources eh.

 

 

Good to know you're not resorting to personal attacks

Edited August 30, 2016 by everyman

[boy popoy]

Like I said and I will say it again. Hitler gave a directive to exterminate the Jews. Bin Laden declared war on America. Marcos never gave a directive to torture and k*ll Filipinos indiscriminately. Wrong analogy. Yes, paulit-ulit lang kasi mali-mali analogy mo. You need a conviction in order to decide if Marcos really was responsible for those alleged atrocious acts. He was never convicted, hence, he died an innocent man.

 

So where did the $4 billion go?

 

Heed your own advice.

 

 

Why does it matter where the $4 Billion went? The fact that the PCGG was able to sequester the unexplained wealth from Marcos should be proof enough that he, at the very least, was a plunderer.

[boy popoy]

in the article you showed, wasn't the PCGG asking where the money went? Do you have court decisions to back up this $4 billion you are alleging? I mean with this amount, there has to be court decisions. Unless Marcos was convicted, saying that Marcos was a plunderer is just conjecture.

 

I am not alleging anything. I am stating a fact. It was the PCGG, (not I), who stated that they have recovered P168 Billion of Marcos ill-gotten wealth. You dispute their claim? Then ask them for the specific case numbers.

[boy popoy]

Again, where is the P170 billion? You're all speculations. When you have something substantial to answer regarding the P170 billion, get back to me.

 

By the way, how sure are you that GetRealPhilippines is propaganda? Is it because they don't favor the yellowtards?

 

 

Again, didn't the PCGG ask where the money went? So your basis is the PCGG but the PCGG is asking where the money went as per the article you showed. You were the one who brought this up so I assumed you knew what you were talking about. You even showed articles to back up your claim and when asked you tell me to ask the PCGG. Cop out.

 

 

No cop out. The reason I posted that article was only to point out that I was not making up (or as you say, "speculating") P170 Billion recovered. You are the one who is trying to spin things by asking irrelevant questions and going out in all sorts of tangents. The point I am making is that THERE WAS WEALTH STOLEN BY MARCOS, AND IT IS A PROVEN FACT BECAUSE OUR GOVERNMENT WAS ABLE TO RECOVER SOME OF IT - that is all. Now, if you want to know where it went, or the specifics of the cases from which it was won, then do your own research.

Edited August 31, 2016 by boy popoy

[boy popoy]

No cop out but you refuse to answer relevant questions, which you label "irrelevant", regarding the money. Don't label it irrelevant just because you have no inkling where the money went. You can't even show court decisions regarding what you are alleging. Again, stealing is a crime. There have been 900 plus cases against the Marcoses with zero convictions.

 

Knowing where it went is irrelevant because it wont change the fact that wealth was stolen and recovered.

 

The PCGG stated they recovered the wealth from Marcos so I am not the one alleging.

 

Showing you court decisions is only necessary if you dispute the claim of the PCGG.

 

So do you dispute the PCGG's statement?

Edited August 31, 2016 by boy popoy

[boy popoy]

Where are the court decisions that proves that the alleged $4 billion has been recovered? Recovering that amount should have a court decision. Label it " irrelevant" but the fact is you have not been able to answer the questions I asked. If you knew, you would have answered it. I even showed you an excerpt from the article you posted regarding the PCGG wanting to know where the money went. Again, don't say that my questions are irrelevant just because you don't know. Just say that you don't know than label it " irrelevant" because saying that my questions are irrelevant is a lame excuse.

 

 

I'm getting tired of all your spinning so I'll make this simple. The PCGG stated that they have recovered P168 Billion of ill-gotten wealth from Marcos. Do you dispute this?

[boy popoy]

Answer my question first.

 

To answer your question: my only purpose in posting that article was to prove that there was wealth stolen. I did not look into where it went because it is irrelevant to my purpose. I did not look into as to what specific cases were pertinent because I have no reason to dispute the PCGG's statement.

 

Your turn:

 

Do you dispute the PCGG's statement that they have recovered P168 Billion of Marcos ill-gotten wealth?

[boy popoy]

In other words, you really have no idea where the money went which is essential in your argument. Let's put it this way, unless you can show court decisions, I don't believe that it happened.

 

Thank you. I'll take that as a "No, I cannot dispute the PCGG, so I'll just spin this some more and make confusing arguments"

 

(I'm starting to think that your real name is Salvador Panelo)

[boy popoy]

In other words, you really have no idea where the money went which is essential in your argument. Let's put it this way, unless you can show court decisions, I doubt the PCGG claims.

 

My fault. So basically you ARE saying you DON'T BELIEVE that the PCGG was able to recover wealth from the Marcoses. Am I correct?

Edited August 31, 2016 by boy popoy

[boy popoy]

OK fine. We'll just leave it that james cutter does not believe in the PCGG claims.

 

 

 

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/398199/news/nation/pcgg-eyes-full-accounting-of-p168-b-recovered-marcos-ill-gotten-wealth

 

 

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/02/25/1556605/p170-b-ill-gotten-wealth-recovered-marcoses-cronies

Edited August 31, 2016 by boy popoy

[boy popoy]

Read the flow of our exchanges so that you will understand.

 

I understand:

 

 

1. I understand that you refuse to acknowledge that Marcos plundered our country despite the PCGG stating that they have recovered P168 billion of Marcos ill-gotten wealth.

 

-Your reason: Because you don't know where the government spent it. You also doubt the PCGG claims only because you weren't spoon fed info on the cases which allowed the PCGG to sequester the plundered wealth.

 

 

2. I also understand that you don't give credence to much of mainstream media both local and international but instead prefer to gather your information from social media.

 

-Sources you find credible are from OPINION WRITERS such as Rigoberto Tiglao or personal opinions from the likes of Juan Ponce "flip-flop" Enrile. You like to quote Rigoberto Tiglao. Rigoberto is a columnist not a reporter. For those of you who don't know the difference: a reporter simply gathers information then reports it without bias. A columnist, on the other hand, writes articles and injects his own OPINION in it.

Edited September 1, 2016 by boy popoy

[everyman]

What do you expect from an anti-Marcos website? I still have to verify if Marcos was, indeed, a US Medal of Honor awardee but he is a Medal of Valor awardee when he was with the Philippine Army.

 

 

No need to sweat it bro, hindi nakatanggap ng U.S. Medal of Honor or Congressional Medal of Honor si Marcos, although it was said Ferdinand claimed he was awarded such. The U.S. has confirmed that they have no record that Marcos received such honor.

 

Regarding the Philippine Medal of Valor, according to the Office of the Solicitor General arguing the case of Marcos' burial at the LNMB, Ferdinand was awarded the Medal of Valor by the AFP on October 1968. The AFP conferred the highest honor to the then sitting Commander in Chief. May umangal kaya that time? Isama sa matrix, hahaha