Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[Kingkongphils]

Really? As far as I know, there were around 2 million people there. The population of the Philippines that time was around 50 million. The fact is only 4% of the population was confirmed not to like Marcos. What about the other 96%? So yeah, fact nga na 4% lang yung confirmed na ayaw kay Marcos.

That is true... comparable fact... erap was also ousted by " EDSA revolution" when he ran again for president... he finished no. 2... tinalo pa c villar (3rd) by a very wide margin. Ibig sabihin kung hindi tunakbo c noynoy e c erap ulit prrsidente natin who was ousted too by "EDSA revolution". So by people not liking... I dont think so.

[BennyChang]

Really? As far as I know, there were around 2 million people there. The population of the Philippines that time was around 50 million. The fact is only 4% of the population was confirmed not to like Marcos. What about the other 96%? So yeah, fact nga na 4% lang yung confirmed na ayaw kay Marcos.

Dude, all facts about Marcos would be fiction to you because you are a diehard Marcos old timer loyalist. Tulog ka na dude. Di healthy sa edad mo nagpupuyat. Lol

Edited March 25, 2016 by bigbert23

[Booblehead]

Si Marcos ay sinira ng mga economic hitmen ng America. Mga hudeo kagaya nila Wolfowitz. Kasabwat ng World Bank at IMF (Insane Motherfkers)

[Kingkongphils]

Si Marcos ay sinira ng mga economic hitmen ng America. Mga hudeo kagaya nila Wolfowitz. Kasabwat ng World Bank at IMF (Insane Motherfkers)

True, your statement has basis as much as what anti marcos are saying. Try reading the waltzing with a dictator book(anti marcos book, dont know if its all true but i think some are far feached) you will see there that marcos ran rings around 4 US presidents. Ginwa nyang lokoloko ang mga US president. On his second term US does not like to support him, but he said if you dont like maybe my people want Russia to support the Phils. During these times Philippines is a young country who likes adventurism. A lot of people wanted to join the communism so they can take down marcos (because od his ties with the US). So basically it is proof that marcos declaring martial law, saved the Philippines from communism. Kaya nga kht martial law e supported pa dn ng US ang pinas because of the Philippines contribution against communism(which is a world wide threat). But admitedly Marcoa have stepped on the toes of US/"economic hitmen" one too many times, kay he was a victim of economic sabotage (if he were not sick, I doubt these hitmen could out think him). IMF stopped loan for the Philippines (apparently madami daw masyadong utang ang pinas) but once marcos stepped down e bglang nag open ulit. Ano un bglang naubos ang utang? So inipit ng IMF at world bank ang Pinas.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Kingkongphils

[Redguard45]

Authoritarian regimes are never good for any country. They are closed systems that by nature, relies on tight control of military to be able to impose its will on the people and maintain power. Authoritarian regimes like China looks good when things are going well. It seems very efficient in decision-making and accomplishes things faster (because there is no opposition). But now that their economy is in trouble, no one is sure why, what went wrong, who’s to blame and whether it is being fixed. A black box produces awe when things go well. But when they don’t, that opacity causes anxiety and fear.

 

Open systems like democracies on the other hand looks very messy and ugly. Our country often looks dysfunctional because its problems are on display and debated daily. Everything — economic strategy, police practices, infrastructure, corruption — is out there and open to constant criticism.But this transparency means that people have information, and it forces the country to look at its problems, grapple with them and react. It seems dysfunctional, but it is actually highly adaptive.

[camiar]

Authoritarian regimes are never good for any country. They are closed systems that by nature, relies on tight control of military to be able to impose its will on the people and maintain power. Authoritarian regimes like China looks good when things are going well. It seems very efficient in decision-making and accomplishes things faster (because there is no opposition). But now that their economy is in trouble, no one is sure why, what went wrong, who’s to blame and whether it is being fixed. A black box produces awe when things go well. But when they don’t, that opacity causes anxiety and fear.

 

Singapore and Malaysia are to some extent, authoritarian. The system did good for them

 

Thailand was for a time, authoritarian, under military rule. What was good for them was the strong influence of the monarchy, which kept the military rule more pro-people (in contrast to our country where the military during martial law were pro-ruling-elite).

 

But we have come a long way from authoritarian martial rule. Over the years, we have seen our military transform to be more professional now than during the '70s and '80s. I don't think we will go back down that path again. Our constitution has safeguards to make it difficult for an authoritarian-inclined president to call for martial rule without a real emergency.

 

 

Open systems like democracies on the other hand looks very messy and ugly. Our country often looks dysfunctional because its problems are on display and debated daily. Everything — economic strategy, police practices, infrastructure, corruption — is out there and open to constant criticism.But this transparency means that people have information, and it forces the country to look at its problems, grapple with them and react. It seems dysfunctional, but it is actually highly adaptive.

 

Our democracy does not "look dysfunctional" .

 

It is dysfunctional.

 

Our inept leaders are getting away with it because the elite-led media are keeping the people ignorant of the real issues on why we're not moving forward.

 

Democracy works if the people are allowed to make educated choices. The problem is that people are fed superficial information on what's going on.

[rooster69ph]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2556wj5.jpg

[rooster69ph]

). But admitedly Marcoa have stepped on the toes of US/"economic hitmen" one too many times, kay he was a victim of economic sabotage (if he were not sick, I doubt these hitmen could out think him). IMF stopped loan for the Philippines (apparently madami daw masyadong utang ang pinas) but once marcos stepped down e bglang nag open ulit. Ano un bglang naubos ang utang? So inipit ng IMF at world bank ang Pinas.

 

 

 

Well for argument's sake sabihin natin na walanghiya talaga ang mga yan (WB at IMF)... e di sana naisip niya yun muna bago siya nangutang ng nangutang sa kanila.

 

He should have negotiated for terms which would have protected the country's interest at the time the loan was requested ... na siya naman ang dapat kasi siya ang presidente.

 

Kaso hindi e ... nagpabaon sa utang at nun hindi na pinauutang para ipambayad utang kasalanan pa ngayon ng nagpapautang? Obligasyon ba nilang pautangin tayo basta nagsabi si Makoy? Wag natin kalimutan na perogative ng creditors kung pauutangin o hindi si Marcos.

 

Bottomline, its poor financial planning. Just imagine a company who borrows for "expansion" but could not generate enough revenues as source of repayment of its loans but rather rely on additional borrowings. If the cycle continues ... talagang bangkarote ang mangyayari isang araw.

 

[Ryuji_tanaka]

Singapore and Malaysia are to some extent, authoritarian. The system did good for them

 

Thailand was for a time, authoritarian, under military rule. What was good for them was the strong influence of the monarchy, which kept the military rule more pro-people (in contrast to our country where the military during martial law were pro-ruling-elite).

 

But we have come a long way from authoritarian martial rule. Over the years, we have seen our military transform to be more professional now than during the '70s and '80s. I don't think we will go back down that path again. Our constitution has safeguards to make it difficult for an authoritarian-inclined president to call for martial rule without a real emergency.

 

 

Our democracy does not "look dysfunctional" .

 

It is dysfunctional.

 

Our inept leaders are getting away with it because the elite-led media are keeping the people ignorant of the real issues on why we're not moving forward.

 

Democracy works if the people are allowed to make educated choices. The problem is that people are fed superficial information on what's going on.

You forgot Taiwan...it spent decades as a one party system after the Chinese Civil War, it built turned Taiwan from a fishing village into a modern nation.

 

Democracy is not always good....the largest democracy, India, has one of the worst standard of living.

 

The Philippines though, is not even a democracy, its a feudal kleptocracy. Power belongs to the landlord/oligarch.

[Kingkongphils]

 

 

 

Well for argument's sake sabihin natin na walanghiya talaga ang mga yan (WB at IMF)... e di sana naisip niya yun muna bago siya nangutang ng nangutang sa kanila.

 

He should have negotiated for terms which would have protected the country's interest at the time the loan was requested ... na siya naman ang dapat kasi siya ang presidente.

 

Kaso hindi e ... nagpabaon sa utang at nun hindi na pinauutang para ipambayad utang kasalanan pa ngayon ng nagpapautang? Obligasyon ba nilang pautangin tayo basta nagsabi si Makoy? Wag natin kalimutan na perogative ng creditors kung pauutangin o hindi si Marcos.

 

Bottomline, its poor financial planning. Just imagine a company who borrows for "expansion" but could not generate enough revenues as source of repayment of its loans but rather rely on additional borrowings. If the cycle continues ... talagang bangkarote ang mangyayari isang araw.

 

Yun nga ang point pag developing country ka kailangan mong umutang to build infra... (alam na kung ano infra pinagagawa ni marcos). Even US madaming utang sa IMF yan.. utang pa nga yan to wage war in iraq, afghan...

[rooster69ph]

Yun nga ang point pag developing country ka kailangan mong umutang to build infra... (alam na kung ano infra pinagagawa ni marcos). Even US madaming utang sa IMF yan.. utang pa nga yan to wage war in iraq, afghan...

 

 

So nung hindi makabayad si makoy sa kanyang pinagkakautangan sasabihin mo yun creditors ang problema...wow!

 

Parang isang kumpanya nangutang sa bpi ng 100m for expansion. E walang pambayad so gustong umutang muli. Eh ayaw na pautangin ni bpi so kasalanan ngayon ni bpi?

 

The point is not about how he used the funds but rather if he had a repayment plan. Obviously, it didn't work out. Therefore poor financial planning by makoy.

 

Nag default din ba ang US tulad nun panahon ni Makoy? Iyon ang malaking pagkakaiba.

[Kingkongphils]

So nung hindi makabayad si makoy sa kanyang pinagkakautangan sasabihin mo yun creditors ang problema...wow!

 

Parang isang kumpanya nangutang sa bpi ng 100m for expansion. E walang pambayad so gustong umutang muli. Eh ayaw na pautangin ni bpi so kasalanan ngayon ni bpi?

 

The point is not about how he used the funds but rather if he had a repayment plan. Obviously, it didn't work out. Therefore poor financial planning by makoy.

 

Nag default din ba ang US tulad nun panahon ni Makoy? Iyon ang malaking pagkakaiba.

Wow kauutang lang dapat bayad agad???? Pwede bng installment ang bayad???

[punkee]

That is why this country could not move forward. We should be resolving other problems by now. Yet, we argue and some even try to bring back about a problem that has been resolved more than 20yrs ago - the Marcoses. They had their time. They made their money. Why do you guys cling to them? Arent there millions of options?

[Kingkongphils]

^^ its because of that typical filipino attitude na kaya ako ganito dahil kay ganyan.. parating dapat may sisishin. Kaya gusto ng "underdog" para may masisis... sa pambansang awit palang e... "ang mamatay ng dahil syo" patay agad.. dapat "ang pumatay ng dahil syo"

[rooster69ph]

Wow kauutang lang dapat bayad agad???? Pwede bng installment ang bayad???

Hahaha...obviously it shows di mo alam ang nangyayari sa hirit mo. Wala kang kamuwang-muwang.

 

Pag umutang may term yan...yun utang ng pilipinas nun panahon ni makoy ay obviously long term. So ang tanong principal lang ba ang dapat bayaran? Hindi! Siyempre yun interest portion ay dapat bayaran din. Pero sandali...when the philippines defaulted marcos has been in power for 20years. How sure are you na yun principal na dapat nang bayaran ay kauutang pa lang? How sure are you na full principal payment ang sinisingil at hindi amortization lang?

 

Research before you post.

[meralcoboy]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2556wj5.jpg

It would be nicer if you will be posting solid references for these details, and also statistics after Mr. Marcos.

[rooster69ph]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Z1Th15HZ62U/VRBhDVZ9JeI/AAAAAAAABjk/3VvwD4sRu3s/s1600/Lee%2BKuan%2BYew%2Bvs%2BMarcos.jpg

[rooster69ph]

Marcos lovers are the loneliest in this planet. They think Imelda Marcos lived a simple and humble lifestyle and shares all her blessings to the poor and oppressed. Lol

 

Before they are often referred to as Marcos Loyalist ... over time seems to be more like Marcostards. Just dumb ...kaya panay hingi ng explanation pero di naman maintindihan Sayang lang effort pag pinatulan mo

[punkee]

Let us not forget, the term Marcos Loyalist was born at a time when the country was fighting a peaceful revolution against the abuses of a dictatorship. When the country was fighting for its freedom, some people stuck w the Marcoses and were labeled Marcos loyalists as opposed to being loyal to their country.

 

And as such, being loyal to a family name is never something to be proud of.

[rooster69ph]

Let us not forget, the term Marcos Loyalist was born at a time when the country was fighting a peaceful revolution against the abuses of a dictatorship. When the country was fighting for its freedom, some people stuck w the Marcoses and were labeled Marcos loyalists as opposed to being loyal to their country.

 

And as such, being loyal to a family name is never something to be proud of.

 

Only fools do ...bigla na lang lilitaw yan. yun na!

Edited April 12, 2016 by rooster69ph

[rooster69ph]

ako payag ako na lahat ng mga MARCOS mailibing doon, package deal basta sabay sabay na silang lahat ... NOW NA!!!

[Edmund Dantes]

Sakin ganito lang.

 

Let him be buried as a soldier who fought in WWII nothing else.

 

Let those who see him as a monster and not a hero do so. Wala naman hinihingi sa NHC na ideklarang pambansang bayani yun tao.

 

Bakit si Angelo Reyes? Di ba damng paratang ng katiwalian sa kanya bago sya nagpakamatay? O bakit sya nalibing dyan.

 

Walang mangyayari satin kung lagi natin isisisi problema ng pangkasalukuyan sa mga kasalanan ng nakaraan. Para sakin kung hirap tayo ngayon, eh kasalan yan ng kasalukuyang pamumuno. Hindi na naman makakabalik yun patay na para ayusin mga sinira nya di ba?

Edited June 2, 2016 by Edmund Dantes

[Edmund Dantes]

Eto yun policy

 

According to Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) Regulation The Allocation of Cemetery Plots at the LNMB issued on 9 April 1986 by former AFP Chief of Staff Gen. Fidel V. Ramos and President Corazon C. Aquino, along with members of the military, the following persons are entitled to be interred at Heroes' Cemetery:^[4]

• Medal of Valor awardees
• Presidents or Commanders-in-Chief, AFP
• The secretaries of National Defense
• AFP Chiefs of Staff, General/Flag Officers, active and retired military personnel, and former AFP members who laterally entered/joined the Philippine National Police (PNP) and the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG)
• Veterans of the Philippine Revolution of 1896, the First and Second World Wars, as well as recognized guerrillas
• Government dignitaries, statesmen, national artists and other deceased persons whose interment has been approved by the commander-in-chief, Congress or the Secretary of National Defense, and
• Former Presidents, Secretaries of National Defense, widows of former Presidents, Secretaries of National Defense and Chiefs of Staff

However, those who were dishonorably separated, reverted, or discharged from the service, and those who were convicted of an offense involving moral turpitude cannot be buried at the cemetery.

 

Ayan. Wala naman naging conviction si Marcos sa mga nabanggit na yan. Kahit nga yun sinasabing moral turpitude, marami din pwedeng ibig sabihin nyan. Point is.... there is no conviction. Otherwise kahit si Angelo Reyes eh di dapat di nilibing dito.

 

Kung ito at ito lang pinakapagbabasehan natin at hindi sentimiento I think malinaw na sagot. Kahit nga si Honasan pabor naman dito eh.

 

Kayo na lang bahala kung ano sa inyo si Marcos.

[rooster69ph]

Sakin ganito lang.

 

Let him be buried as a soldier who fought in WWII nothing else.

 

Let those who see him as a monster and not a hero do so. Wala naman hinihingi sa NHC na ideklarang pambansang bayani yun tao.

 

Bakit si Angelo Reyes? Di ba damng paratang ng katiwalian sa kanya bago sya nagpakamatay? O bakit sya nalibing dyan.

 

Walang mangyayari satin kung lagi natin isisisi problema ng pangkasalukuyan sa mga kasalanan ng nakaraan. Para sakin kung hirap tayo ngayon, eh kasalan yan ng kasalukuyang pamumuno. Hindi na naman makakabalik yun patay na para ayusin mga sinira nya di ba?

 

 

sabihin na natin for argument's sake na mali lahat ang paratang kay Makoy at tunay na nararapat siyang ilibing sa LNMB.

 

Ilang dekada na ba ang nagdaan nang mamatay siya. Ilang pangulo na ba ang nagdaan na hindi isang Aquino. Hindi pa rin nailibing doon na kung tutuusin isang order lang naman kahit ilang ang tumutol mangyayari yon. Tulad ngayon na sinabi ni Du30 na payag siya. So kung payag siya at iutos niya ilibing dun pagkatapos na pagkatapos na sumumpa siya bilang pangulo, may magagawa ba ang mga kumokontra?

 

Pero ito ang akin, halimbawa hindi talaga mailibing doon, bakit ba pinagpipilitan ng pamilya? Because what Marcos wants Marcos should always get? Dahil ba "bayani" siyang maituturing kung doon lamang siya inilibing?

[Edmund Dantes]

 

 

sabihin na natin for argument's sake na mali lahat ang paratang kay Makoy at tunay na nararapat siyang ilibing sa LNMB.

 

Ilang dekada na ba ang nagdaan nang mamatay siya. Ilang pangulo na ba ang nagdaan na hindi isang Aquino. Hindi pa rin nailibing doon na kung tutuusin isang order lang naman kahit ilang ang tumutol mangyayari yon. Tulad ngayon na sinabi ni Du30 na payag siya. So kung payag siya at iutos niya ilibing dun pagkatapos na pagkatapos na sumumpa siya bilang pangulo, may magagawa ba ang mga kumokontra?

 

Pero ito ang akin, halimbawa hindi talaga mailibing doon, bakit ba pinagpipilitan ng pamilya? Because what Marcos wants Marcos should always get? Dahil ba "bayani" siyang maituturing kung doon lamang siya inilibing?

 

 

Bottom line pulitika lang naman talaga ang dahilan kung bakit nagkakaroon ng public pressure na huwag sya dyan ilibing. Kung wala naman umaangal eh matagal ng tapos usapan na ito. Kaso madaming mas gusto timbangin yun sentimiento. Sana nga hindi bumigay sa public pressure si digong dito.

 

Anong always want at always get na sinasabi mo. Hindi nga ganun ang nangyari, kundi ba di sna hindi nawala sa kapangyarihan si Apo.

 

Hindi mo masisisi kung yun pamilya gusto makuha yun entitlement ng tao. Andyan naman sa rules ang requirements di ba? Kung yun lang pagbabasehan natin wala na tayong dapat pa pagusapan. Kung gusto nyo, eh di pasa na lang ng panukala sa kongresso para baguhin yan. At imbes sa AFP, ipasa na lang sa national historical commission pangangasiwa. Kasi sila lang naman pwede magdeklara ng pagiging national hero status. Dami daming historical figures di nabigyan ng ganyan status eh.

 

Ang dating pangalan ng lugar na yan "Republic Memorial Cemetery" na essentially ay isang military cemetery. Yun pagkakalagay ng salitang "Bayani" political lang. In other words para mas kyut.

 

Pero sa huli, nasa tao na kung ituturing nyang totoong "bayani" nga yun nailibing dyan.