Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[Edmund Dantes]

^^^ kaya nila gusto ipalibing doon pre kase papasok sa record books na si marcos (globally considered (i did not say convicted) the most corrupt leader in the world, or number 2 whatever) ay nakalibing sa libingan ng mga bayani.

 

Sunod niyan sasabihin ng pamilya "e kung corrupt si marcos, bakit niyo nilibing sa libingan ng mga bayani?"

 

After 50 years marami na patay sa mga pilipino na nabuhay noon martial law, record books na lang ang titignan, "uy si marcos nakalibing sa libingan ng mga bayani, ibig sabihin hero siya!"

 

Mga kabataan nga ngayon karamihan mang mang na sa nangyari noong martial law, kaya nga muntik manalo si BoBoMar e how much more down the road a few years from now.

 

Hehehe laughingstock na naman ang pilipino kapag ilibing yan sa libingan ng mga bayani. Parang ngayon laughingstock na naman tayo dahil machine gun bibig ng pangulo natin

 

Gimme a break, si Aguinaldo nga na deklaradong bayani napakadaming bahid ng legacy nya. Pagpatay kina Bonifacio at Luna. Pagtorture sa mga kaaway. Pagiging collaborator ng mga hapon. Nakulong pa nga yan dahil dyan. At sa iba, sya nga daw Father of Government corruption in the Philippines. lol.

 

At eto matindi! Si Stalin! In the books million million namatay dahil dito. Sa pananaw ng ibang bansa, halimaw din itong taong ito. Hindi mo lang tawanan biro nya tapon ka sa gulag at magtratrabaho ka hangang mamatay ka sa gutom. Pero ang daming monumento ni Stalin sa Russia. Hati din ang mismong mga russo tungkol sa kanya. OO maraming pinapatay, pero sa pamumuno nya naging heavily industrialized ang Russia, naging superpower, at hindi nasakop ng mga Nazi.

 

Si Mao tse Tung, Ho Chi Minh, etc. The list really goes on. Kung minsan yun pagiging "bayani" ng isang tao, subject na lang yan sa perception ng tao. At kung sakali man magbago nga pananaw ng tao kay Marcos (tulad nga ng nangyayari ngayon). Ano naman? Past is past! Patay na yun tao! hindi na ulit tayo pwede bumalik sa nakaraan. Magkakaroon ba yan ng epekto (mabuti o masama) sa kasalukuyang estado ng lipuan natin ngayon?

[rooster69ph]

 

 

Bottom line pulitika lang naman talaga ang dahilan kung bakit nagkakaroon ng public pressure na huwag sya dyan ilibing. Kung wala naman umaangal eh matagal ng tapos usapan na ito. Kaso madaming mas gusto timbangin yun sentimiento. Sana nga hindi bumigay sa public pressure si digong dito.

 

Anong always want at always get na sinasabi mo. Hindi nga ganun ang nangyari, kundi ba di sna hindi nawala sa kapangyarihan si Apo.

 

Hindi mo masisisi kung yun pamilya gusto makuha yun entitlement ng tao. Andyan naman sa rules ang requirements di ba? Kung yun lang pagbabasehan natin wala na tayong dapat pa pagusapan. Kung gusto nyo, eh di pasa na lang ng panukala sa kongresso para baguhin yan. At imbes sa AFP, ipasa na lang sa national historical commission pangangasiwa. Kasi sila lang naman pwede magdeklara ng pagiging national hero status. Dami daming historical figures di nabigyan ng ganyan status eh.

 

Ang dating pangalan ng lugar na yan "Republic Memorial Cemetery" na essentially ay isang military cemetery. Yun pagkakalagay ng salitang "Bayani" political lang. In other words para mas kyut.

 

Pero sa huli, nasa tao na kung ituturing nyang totoong "bayani" nga yun nailibing dyan.

 

 

Simple lang ang argumnto ko ... di mo maiiwasan na sa isang usapin may papanig at may kokontra. pero ang tanong nakanino ba ang huling desisyon?

Ilang presidente na ba ang hindi isang Aquino, pero hindi nila pinayagan mailibing. Tapos sisisihin ninyo sa mga taong kumokontra? Aba'y kung ginusto yan ng mga nagdaan na pangulo kahit na may nagrereklamo dahil iyon ay ang "nararapat" dapat ginawa nila yon. Now kung hindi at nagpadala sila sa sinasabi mong mga kumokontra then yun mga pangulo ang sisihin mo at hindi yun mga mamamayan na di sumasangayon. Sabi mo nga nasa rules naman yun gagawin niya di po ba?

[everyman]

Kagustuhan ba ni FM ang mailibing sa Libingan ng mga Bayani o kagustuhan ni Imelda? Sa pagkakaalam ko, gusto lamang ni FM ay mailibing sa Pilipinas, sa tabi ng puntod ng kanyang ina. Very reasonable naman ito and many Filipinos will agree to this. Sa Libingan ng mga Bayani ba nakalibing si Dona Josefa?

 

 

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1036706

 

Ferdinand Marcos to Doy Laurel:

 

“Please tell Mrs. Aquino to stop sending me her relatives. They are proposing and asking so many things. All I want is to die in my country…I will run over 90 percent of all my worldly possessions to our conversation to our people. I ask only 10 percent for my family.’

“Just let me die in my own country. I want to be buried beside my mother.’

[Edmund Dantes]

 

 

Simple lang ang argumnto ko ... di mo maiiwasan na sa isang usapin may papanig at may kokontra. pero ang tanong nakanino ba ang huling desisyon?

Ilang presidente na ba ang hindi isang Aquino, pero hindi nila pinayagan mailibing. Tapos sisisihin ninyo sa mga taong kumokontra? Aba'y kung ginusto yan ng mga nagdaan na pangulo kahit na may nagrereklamo dahil iyon ay ang "nararapat" dapat ginawa nila yon. Now kung hindi at nagpadala sila sa sinasabi mong mga kumokontra then yun mga pangulo ang sisihin mo at hindi yun mga mamamayan na di sumasangayon. Sabi mo nga nasa rules naman yun gagawin niya di po ba?

 

Fine nagiging chicken and egg debate lang ito. Lets hope panindigan ni Duterte desisyon nya para tapos na ito.

 

Let Marcos have his military funeral in consideration for whatever good he did for the country

 

Then kung gusto nyo hangang kaapuapuan nyo lagi nyo ikwento na walang hiya si Marcos.

[camiar]

 

Fine nagiging chicken and egg debate lang ito. Lets hope panindigan ni Duterte desisyon nya para tapos na ito.

 

Let Marcos have his military funeral in consideration for whatever good he did for the country

 

Then kung gusto nyo hangang kaapuapuan nyo lagi nyo ikwento na walang hiya si Marcos.

 

OK sakin yan....

[haroots2]

If the cemetery is called "Libingan ng mga Sundalo" this won't be an issue at all.

[Edmund Dantes]

If the cemetery is called "Libingan ng mga Sundalo" this won't be an issue at all.

 

Republic Memorial Cemetery naman tawag dito dati, pinalitan lang ng libingan ng mga bayani. Essentially military cemetery ito.

 

Si Angelo Reyes di ba? Kaliwat kanan akusasyon dito ng katiwalian pero dyan naman inilibing.

 

Like I said, heroes are not really saints. Heroism is sometimes a matter of perspective also. Hindi ko nga maintindihan bakit bayani itong si Pacquiao dapat, wala naman syang combat experience, hindi naman sya lumaban para sa civil rights etc. Pero mas nagiging bayani pa sya kina Rizal at Bonifacio

[everyman]

 

 

May mahalagang punto dito si Ed Lingao sa dulo ng kanyang post. Bakit pinahihirapan tayo ng pamilya Marcos. Ginugulo nila ang buong bayan, pinagwawatak watak ang mga Pilipino dahil pilit nilang sinusubo ang kagustuhan nilang ilibing sa Libingan ng mga Bayani si Ferdinand Marcos samantalang ang kagustuhan ng yumaong Pangulo e sa tabi ng puntod ng kanyang ina siya mahimlay.

 

Ang pagpupumilit na mailibing sa Libingan ng mga Bayani e game plan ba ni Imelda para ma-realize niya ang kanyang ambisyong makabalik uli sa Malacanang? Lantaran naman kasing sinabi ni Imelda na gusto nilang bumalik sa Malacanang. Wow. Kahit na at the expense of dividing the Filipino Nation.

 

Hindi ba sila pwede magsakripisyo at ilibing sa Ilocos yang si Apo, katabi ng kanyang yumaong ina, na siyang gusto naman ng dating Pangulo? Malaking tulong yan sa bansa para manahimik na ang lahat. Hindi itong umpisa pa lang ng termino ni Digong e nagkakawatak watak na dahil sa isyung ito. Ganitong ganito nangyari kay Erap kung natatandaan niyo. Wasted political momentum para sa new leadership, sasayangin para sa patay. Sakripisyo kaming mga buhay pa.

 

 

Ngayon palawakin natin ang sakop nitong ideyang ito. Pwede bang magsakripisyo ang mga Aquino at Marcos at lumabas na sa politika. Very divisive itong dalawang pamilyang ito. Hindi naman monarchy ang Pinas, pwede ba iba naman. Nakakauyam na.

[Edmund Dantes]

13310632_10153902649949678_4155006046619592989_n.jpg

 

 

May mahalagang punto dito si Ed Lingao sa dulo ng kanyang post. Bakit pinahihirapan tayo ng pamilya Marcos. Ginugulo nila ang buong bayan, pinagwawatak watak ang mga Pilipino dahil pilit nilang sinusubo ang kagustuhan nilang ilibing sa Libingan ng mga Bayani si Ferdinand Marcos samantalang ang kagustuhan ng yumaong Pangulo e sa tabi ng puntod ng kanyang ina siya mahimlay.

 

Ang pagpupumilit na mailibing sa Libingan ng mga Bayani e game plan ba ni Imelda para ma-realize niya ang kanyang ambisyong makabalik uli sa Malacanang? Lantaran naman kasing sinabi ni Imelda na gusto nilang bumalik sa Malacanang. Wow. Kahit na at the expense of dividing the Filipino Nation.

 

Hindi ba sila pwede magsakripisyo at ilibing sa Ilocos yang si Apo, katabi ng kanyang yumaong ina, na siyang gusto naman ng dating Pangulo? Malaking tulong yan sa bansa para manahimik na ang lahat. Hindi itong umpisa pa lang ng termino ni Digong e nagkakawatak watak na dahil sa isyung ito. Ganitong ganito nangyari kay Erap kung natatandaan niyo. Wasted political momentum para sa new leadership, sasayangin para sa patay. Sakripisyo kaming mga buhay pa.

 

 

Ngayon palawakin natin ang sakop nitong ideyang ito. Pwede bang magsakripisyo ang mga Aquino at Marcos at lumabas na sa politika. Very divisive itong dalawang pamilyang ito. Hindi naman monarchy ang Pinas, pwede ba iba naman. Nakakauyam na.

 

Imelda is not that stupid. Kung babalik man pamilya nya sa malacanang it will take more than the military funeral of her husband to do that.

 

Ang problema pinalalaki masyado ng mga yellowtards, sa tulong ng media ang issue na ito. Sinabi na naman di ba? Ililibing sya bilang dating sundalo na lumaban noong WWI! Tapos!

 

Ano ba problema kasi? Bakit kelangan magkahati hati pa dahil dyan? Di ilibing at bigyan ng full military honors, pagkatapos kung ayaw nyo tawagin bayani tao eh di huwag. Bahala na kayo humusga kung ano yun tao sa inyo basta nakalibing na sya. Hindi naman binabago pananaw ng ayaw, dahil in the same way di rin mababago pagtingin ng iba sa kanya in a positive light.

 

Bakit? pag nalibing ba sya dyan magugunaw bigla mundo? Maibabalik ba pa natin si Apo para ayusin nya mga nasira nya?

 

Ito namang media kasi, basta marcos na pinaguusapan kelangan laging tignan sobrang masama at lahat ng paghihirap ng bansang ito kasalanan nya.

 

I guess equally as this country needs heroes, it also needs villains

[rooster69ph]

 

Hay dami mong ngiao ngiao paikot ikot lang naman tayo. simple lang no political pressure = matagal na nalibing! Tapos!

 

Ang tanong kung totohanin ba ni Digong ito tatahimik na kayo? Hindi na kayo magproprotesta o magrerekalamo

a president remember should act based on what he think is the right thing to do regardless of the presence of political pressure.

bakit ninyo kasi ang hilig isisi sa mga anti marcos kung hindi pabor sa inyo ang desisyon. kayo ang hindi marunong rumespeto sa desisyon ng presidente at di maka move on

 

 

kung tinotohanan,...yun may magproprotesta natural yan pero ang dapat hindi niya bawiin. I can only speak for myself...ako tutol ako pero rerespetuhin ko desisyon ng presidente.

 

tulad ng sinabi ko kanina sa tingin mo ba pagnailibing na yan eh may magpapahukay yan para ma evict sa LNMB? Ako personally I doubt.

Edited June 3, 2016 by rooster69ph

[punkee]

sige na. if you guys are truly serious in comparing Japan to the Marcoses. go ahead if it makes you feel good. tutal, pag may tinamaan, Ide-delete lang naman post ko kahit totoo. ​

 

In the meantime, SC affirms forfeiture of $40M Marcos Arelma assets.

 

"While there are frustrating delays and obstacles in the course of our work, the commission remains steadfast in its commitment to restore what was taken from the public coffers." - PCGG Chairman Andres Bautista.

 

The Marcoses are guilty no matter who sits in government. Paloko pa kayo more.

[punkee]

Marcos wartime stories have been proven false. more than two times over. :-) not just by people against Marcos. many groups, here and abroad, have attested to FM's made-up stories.

 

those stories are true only to people who have selective memory.

[haroots2]

Head of Government: Ferdinand Marcos

Country/Term of Office: President of Philippines, 1972-86

 

Your fact is a bit off.

[haroots2]

 

hindi ko fact yan kaya nilagay ko yung source

 

Source: Transparency International, Global Corruption Report 2004

 

puntahan mo at sulatan mo para i correct mo sila. journalists naman ang mga yan at ibibigay nila sayo ang details ng report nila.

 

So you don't know his term as president to correct it yourself? Lol. Why would their detailed report would matter to his term for me to ask for it?

Its your post here so I informed you not them.

Edited August 3, 2016 by haroots2

[haroots2]

 

minsan talaga mapapakamot ka na lang sa mga nakakahalubilong mga taong ganito. SMH. syempre alam ko term niya. pero ang source yan ang nilagay nila kaya sila na bahala ang mag correct. sa dinadami ng papansinin mo yung napakaliit na bagay tulad ng term pa pinansin mo. SMH ulit. typographical error yan. madalas marami ka naman makikitang mga dyornalista na nagkakamali sa mga pagtatype nila ng mga balita nila. so hindi out of the ordinary na magkaroon ka ng ganyang pagkakamali.

 

mas importante yung mga figures na nasagap nila sa pagiimbestiga nila.

 

diyan sa mga source na yan doon ka makakapagformulate ng sarili mong opinyon kung ano ang nangyari at kung dapat bang sabihin na tama ba ito o mali.

 

pero kung talagang mas gusto mo bigyan ng pansin ang graphic na yan eh welcome kang sumulat o magemail sa Transparency International at sabihin na nagkamali sila ng lagay sa term of Presidency ni dating Pangulong Marcos dagdagan mo ng references para may confirmation na fact ito ah. sus ginoo, diyos ko, bigyan mo ko ng lakas.

 

I read the details and you didn't see me contesting it am I? Masama bang sabihin yung mali sa post mo? Di ba ang thread na ito fact and Myths tungkol kay FM? Baka maging myths yung post mo kung may mga mali di po ba? Masama bang i correct kung alam mo naman na mali?

[Booblehead]

Gusto ko mabura na sa mundo ang mga LP na ito at maka-Dilawan! Mga hipokrito mga magnanakaw at mga demonyong nagpahirap sa ating bayan! pagdating ng zombie apocalypse papatayin ko silang lahat!

[everyman]

1. Mr. Marcos lied about receiving the U.S. Medal of Honor, Silver Star, and Order of the Purple Heart, which he claimed as early as about 1945.

2. His guerrilla unit, the Ang Mga Maharlika, was never officially recognized and neither was his leadership of it.

3. U.S. officials did not recognize Mr. Marcos’s rank promotion from Major in 1944 to Lt. Col. by 1947.

4. Some of Mr. Marcos’s actions as a soldier were officially called into question by upper echelons of the U.S. military, such as his command over the Allas Intelligence Unit (described as “usurpation”), his commissioning of officers (without authority), his abandonment of USAFIP-NL presumably to build an airfield for Gen. Roxas, his collection of money for the airfield (described as “illegal”), and his listing of his name on the roster of different units (called a “malicious criminal act”).

Mr. Marcos’s military record is fraught with myths, factual inconsistencies, and lies. The rule in history is that when a claim is disproven—such as Mr. Marcos’s claims about his medals, rank, and guerrilla unit—it is simply dismissed. When, moreover, a historical matter is under question or grave doubt, as expressed in the military records about Mr. Marcos’s actions and character as a soldier, the matter may not be established or taken as fact. A doubtful record also does not serve as sound, unassailable basis of historical recognition of any sort, let alone burial in a site intended, as its name suggests, for heroes.

For these reasons, the NATIONAL HISTORICAL COMMISSION OF THE PHILIPPINES opposes the plan to bury Mr. Marcos at the Libingan ng mga Bayani.

The COMMISSION undertook this study as part of its mandate to conduct and disseminate historical research and resolve historical controversies. (Section 5 and 7, R.A. 10086).

[everyman]

^The National Historical Commission of the Philippines composed of academics with doctorate degrees will stick out their heads, endanger their careers and their reputation to mouth propaganda.

 

I don't think so.

[everyman]

This is the article. For the undecided and the uninformed this may be an eye opener.

 

 

MARCOS'S WARTIME ROLE DISCREDITED IN U.S. FILES

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/01/23/world/marcos-s-wartime-role-discredited-in-us-files.html

 

Alfred W. McCoy, a historian, discovered the documents among hundreds of thousands of others several months ago while at the National Archives researching a book on World War II in the Philippines. Dr. McCoy was granted the access normally accorded to scholars, and when he came upon the the Maharlika files he was allowed to review and copy them along with others. Archives officials did not learn what the documents contained until after they were copied.

 

Dr. McCoy, an American professor of history at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia, said he was ''stunned'' when he found the records last summer. He said he worked with the records by himself until this month. He brought them to the attention of The New York Times last week.

The records were reviewed at the Archives, where officials confirmed their authenticity. In addition, several former American military officers who played important roles in the events described in the records were interviewed.

[everyman]

The document sources where the Alfred McCoy/NHCP research was based, however, is solid and unassailable. Primary sources. Astig.

[everyman]

Marcos loyalists should not miss reading the NHCP pamphlet kahit na unfavorable ito sa mga Marcos. Pirma ni Macoy nung 1947 nandun, ang linaw. Piece of history, men.

[everyman]

A must read for those really interested in separating fact from fiction, a treasure trove for history buffs:

 

Why Ferdinand E. Marcos Should Not Be Buried at the Libingan ng mga Bayani

by the National Historical Commission of the Philippines

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Fxiq95vA8ORC0tVzBoM1Flckk/view

 

 

--can be downloaded from the NHCP website and Facebook page

 

 

 

 

[punkee]

good link, everyman.

 

So much of that around already from reputable sources both here and abroad. The only thing left for those who did not experience Marcos is to objectively read and they will have an idea what is true - that the Marcoses are a family of murderers and thieves.

 

For those old enough to experience Marcos, then you have witnessed the family's exaggerated extravagance, their political enemies gone missing and turning up dead, the heroic war stories proven to be made up, and a country totally bankrupt. So what are you guys supporting again? And is what is so good about this Marcos again? He is not even a good leader when he cant control his wife.

 

like many pinoys nowadays, the truth and facts do not seem to be important anymore. there is an abundance of weaklings now who would just rather believe what they get from hearsay, fascinating stories, interesting personalities, and worse, MONEY.

[punkee]

Whether 1965 or 1986, if they were lies they are lies. Even if there was pamumulitika, point is, THEY ARE still LIES. So what is Marcos? A president who lied about his credentials. A soldier who lied about his medals. There is no stopping that.

 

You dont have to support any Aquino to say that. Kahit si Pokwang binoto mo, it doesnt change the fact that Marcos lied about his medals so hwag nang pilitin ang dilaw or Aquino.

 

And he has a son who lied about his education too. And no yellowtard had anything to do with that. Credit that lie fully to BBM.

[everyman]

Like I said, history is written by the victors. If the Edsa Revolution failed and Marcos was still president, do you think the NHCP would still put Marcos in an unsavory light?

 

Whether Marcos is still president or not, the fact remains that Ferdinand E. Marcos lied about his World War 2 heroics.

 

Whether the U.S. Military documents surfaced or not, the fact remains that Ferdinand E. Marcos lied about his World War 2 heroics.

 

The U.S. Military records of the 1940's where the NHCP/Alfred McCoy based their research on are authentic and the documents are unassailable.

 

The investigation done by the U.S. Military in the 1940s, long before Marcos or EDSA held any meaning to Philippine history, precludes any bias for or against Marcos.

Edited August 8, 2016 by everyman