camiar

What excuse do they need? They could just say they're conducting a live fire naval exercise in the area (with no definite end time, of course).

 

And since it's part of a disputed territory, none can claim war over territorial breaches. And if a non aligned supply ship attempts to get through the excersie area... Well accidents do happen in live fire exercises.

They need a good excuse so that if they ever use force against Pag-asa Island, the international community will not come to our aid and start WW3. But if your basis is that the Chinese are so cocky to think they can do anything they want against us because they are stronger, then there's no point arguing with you.

Anyway, the Chinese won't be so stupid.

My prediction is that the Spratlys row will eventually be settled diplomatically, with all claimants joining to develop that area and share the the wealth.

Was wondering if I understood you correctly. That in order to enforce an embargo, there is a need to declare war. Was I right in my interpretation? If so, how is it that JFK managed to declare a naval quarantine off Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 without declaring war? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a quarantine similar to an embargo? Is there really a need to declare war against a country before an embargo can take effect?

You have to read a few posts back to put it in the right context. We were talking about China taking Pag-asa Island by overwhelming force, which tk421 says China don't have to but just to blockade the island (presumably to force it to surrender).

Under what pretense would China blockade Pag-asa Island? Can you give a scenario of a full naval blockade with a no-fly-zone that is not a state of war?

They dont have to take it. All they have to do is make a blockade around it and prevent supplies from coming through...

Blockade Pag-asa Island? what excuse would they use to justify it? That would only make them look bad to the international community.

To prevent supplies from coming through? To do that they also have to enforce a no-fly zone since we are capable of re-supplying by air. But to enforce the no-fly zone, they would have to declare war. War against whom? the Philippines? What a laugh! They will just make themselves look like fools.

You give too much credit on China's perceived strength. The fact is, China can't do much with their claims as we are with ours. You should understand that they cannot touch our claimed islands not because we are strong enough to defend them, but because our neighbors and allies are watching. But having said that, I still believe that we should build up our own military strength to protect our claims. Defending our territory and sovereignty is our responsibility, not the USA, nor any of our neighbors and allies.

Occupation is one thing. Asserting control is another. I don't think we can do the latter.

We have been asserting control on Pag-asa Island in the Spratlys for decades already.

We have Philippine Marines there. It has a 1.2 km long airstrip there that can allow huge C-130 military transport planes to land and take-off.

Recently, the Department of Education officially opened an Elementary School there to cater to the growing number of children among the Filipino community living there. There is a fully functioning Barangay in the island. Elections are conducted there in conjunction with our regular elections here in Manila.

We have not just occupied the Pag-asa Island, we are asserting control over it.

All Taiwan can do is to let their students to camp in some unoccupied sandbar in the area.

We, on the other hand, have already been occupying and governing the biggest island in the Spratleys.

Yes, China can take that island from us by overwhelming force. But at what price? I doubt if they will do it.

Sige lang.

Laruin ng laruin. Wag magsawa.

Pinaglalaruan na nga lang ni Hellyeah eh...

Pagkahaba-haba ng mga palitan ng sagot (na ang totoo ay di naman sagot kundi mga tanong din lang....)

Pero wala ring kinapupuntahan ang usapan.

Mga MODS. Baka kasi nagtataka kayo kung bakit nagiging anemic na itong current events forum. Ito ang dahilan.

dear abnoy,

 

hataw ang kaisipan mo, gusto mo maupgrade ang philippine airforce sa pamamagitan ng pagbili ng surplus atpinaglumaan na f-16, bobo ka talaga unmanned aircraft na kaya ang trend ngaun, 15 years ago ng late uak mo, katutuli palang kay tom cruise ung f-16 na yan. pwede naman magdevelope ng unmanned aircraft dito. mas mura at pwedeng spy plane napakatanga mo na humingi ka ng tulong sa US na magpadala ng spy plane sa panatag over the news channel. hilig mo sa mic, bobo!!!

Di naman sa kinakampihan ko si "BS" Aquino. Sinusuportahan ko lang ang leadership ng Air Force at ng AFP na ipinagpilitan ang kanilang acquisition plans.

Pero, ang totoo, di tayo bibili ng second hand na F-16. Brand New T/A-50 supersonic lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT)ang bibilhin natin. This plane is developed by Korean Aerospace Industry and Lockheed Martin, who developed the famous F-16. KAI manufacture parts for F-15 fighter planes and assembled their own F-16s under license, so they know how to build combat aircraft.

KAI is producing T-50 (2-seater Trainer version), T/A-50 (2-seater Trainer/Attack version), and F/A-50 (Single-seat Fighter/Attack version).

... likas sa tao ang maghinanakit kapag nasusupalpal,

 

...

ang akala mo nakakasupalpal ka kapag di na sinasagot ang post mo.

pero ang totoo, tumitigil na lang sila sa walang kwentang pakikipagtalo.

humahaba lang ang usapan, wala namang kinapupuntahan.

^^^puro motherhood statements... sheesh ... alang kwenta.

^Ang laki nga ng achievement ni Penoy! BIG YAGBOLS!!

tutoo ba? 6% ang inilaki last quarter?

Anong mahirap gawin?

... ang hindi paghahanap ng taong masisisi.

mahirap pala ang mag dedma... ang manahimik na lang

it's harder to keep quiet than to take the Mayor to account for his poor performance? parang baligtad yata?

Hoy BS!,

Pano na yan? Pinalubog ng China yung fishing boat natin!

Anong gagawin natin?

Noy?.....Noy?..... Noy!!! Asan ka ba???

Lintek na... Nawawala na naman....

It would be naive for all of us to argue on whatever response the US will make to any incident involving PHL-China territorial disputes. What we would be certain though, is that the US will act according to what is best for its own interest.

What we Filipinos should accept is that defending our sovereignity is our own fight. We should welcome help from others, but it still remains our own.

I feel annoyed when some posters imply that in case of armed attack, the US should automatically take over the situation and lead our fight. Yet it seems that even Noynoy think along the same line, even bringing the UK into it.

So what should we do instead? Keep our mouth shut. Build up our own strength to protect our territory.

So far the Philippine Navy and the Coast Guard are doing the right thing : Grey-on-grey, White-on-white.

I agree with fatchubs.

The US can comply with the MDT without having to send its own troops to fight. They can provide weapons, ammo, equipment, and most importantly, military intelligence.

A similar example was during the Falklands War. US has a similar arrangement with UK in case of armed agression in the Atlantic. US never physically joined the fighting, but they provided vital intelligence to UK, particularly military satellite photos.

For the sake of clarity in our discussion, may I suggest to define the phrase "fired the first shot" to mean a premeditated armed attack which led to casualties or substantial damage.

Warning shot and accidental firing which does not cause any harm other than ruffle some nerves, should not be considered "firing the first shot".

This is the point why we should only put professional navy and coast guard presonnel in the area, and keep the area off limits to politicians. A lot of bad things can happen due to lack of discipline.

US will not engage in war against China just for us. i dont think they fight the war for the Ph unless there is a "compelling" reason for that.

The mere geographic location of the Philippine archipelago is compelling enough reason for the US. PHL is essential to their strategic defense stategy in keeping their international shipping routes open.

Sir, how do you define or interpret "obliged to come to its aid"? Does it mean going into combat side by side only? Does providing military aid such as money to upgrade military equipments or weapons also constitute such?

I would interpret the MDT to mean that either country (both PHL and USA)shall provide whatever aid necessary to "resist armed attacks" by external forces.

The MDT works both ways. If the US Fleet gets attacked in the Asia-Pacific region by another armed force, PHL is obliged to provide aid to the US Fleet. We may not even need to provide fighting troops, but we can provide behind-the-lines support and military bases to help the US fight off its attackers. Conversely, if the Philippine territory or its military forces are attacked, of course we should expect the US to help us fight off our attackers.

The terms of the treaty is quite clear. Both countries shall come to each other's aid if either country's armed forces are attacked in the Pacific. But one condition is that neither the US nor PH should act in a way that would provoke an armed conflict. If we militarily provoke China and starts the shooting, we'd better be prepared to finish it on our own, because in that case, the US is not obliged to help us.

This idiot in malacanang don't know how to resign even though he know his incompetence.

He need's to be impeached! I wonder if he can plead insanity in an impeachment ?

I do hope he pleads insanity if he gets impeached.

Insanity can be used as basis to remove him from office.

Our Mutual Defense Treaty with the USA obliges both the Philippine and American governments to aid each other if it comes under armed attack by external party.

One of the treaty's article staes: An armed attack on either of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack on the metropolitan territory of either of the Parties, or on the island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific or on its armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific.

If a US enemy militarily attacks Guam, for example, the Philippines is obliged to come to its aid. An attack on our Kalayaan Island (under our jurisdiction), or any of our armed forces, ships, or aircraft in this area, will bring on the same response from the US.

But we should no rely on the MDT for our own protection. Diplomacy is still the best strategy.

If we are too cocky to start a fight and end up getting clobbered by a stronger opponent, we would be the ones at fault.

What we should be doing is to increase our capability to resist an armed attack. We don't even need to match our opponent's war-fighting capabilities in the area. We just need to build enough strength to make it very very costly for them to attack us - both militarily and diplomatically.

Our Mutual Defense Treaty with the USA obliges both the Philippine and American governments to aid each other if it comes under armed attack by external party.

One of the treaty's article states: An armed attack on either of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack on the metropolitan territory of either of the Parties, or on the island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific or on its armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific.

If a US enemy militarily attacks Guam, for example, the Philippines is obliged to come to its aid. An attack on our Kalayaan Island (under our jurisdiction), or any of our armed forces, ships, or aircraft in this area, will bring on the same response from the US.

But we should no rely on the MDT for our own protection. Diplomacy is still the best strategy.

If we are too cocky to start a fight and end up getting clobbered by a stronger opponent, we would be the ones at fault.

What we should be doing is to increase our capability to resist an armed attack. We don't even need to match our opponent's war-fighting capabilities in the area. We just need to build enough strength to make it very very costly for them to attack us - both militarily and diplomatically.

Fafansin talaga yan si Faeldon na yan

 

wala na kasi magawa - may financer na senatorial bet

 

ang drama pag-dating nya sa Panatag susunod ang politiko at mag photo session and press stint

Mag-photo session ang palaging defense strategy ni Faeldon.

Nung fugitive pa sya, photo session sa harap ng Crame at Aguinaldo ang ginagawa nya para "mapatunayan" nya na palaban sya. Pero ayun, nahuli din.

Ngayon, magpo-photo session daw sa Scarborough Shoal para ipakita nya ang lupit nya laban sa mga intsik.

Pag nagkaroon nga shooting war, tyak, magpo-photo session yan behind enemy lines para ipakitang lumalaban sya. :lol:

Tatakbo ba sa 2013 elections yang taong yan? Sigurado maraming Pinoy ang maloloko nyan.

meantime, china has banned all fishing on scarborough shoal. if we fish there, on our own territory, tayo pa ang masama

If Noynoy knows his stuff in diplomacy, he should have arranged it behind the scenes such that both China and the Philippines simultaneously declare a 75-day fishing ban. That way, both countries could have a way to withdraw from the area and de-escalate the tension with neither government losing face to their people.

Now that China has beaten PHL gov't to the gun by declaring the ban first, Noynoy now loses face because all he can do now is react.

Anyway, maybe he can still salvage his reputation by declaring a 90-day fishing ban in June, July, and August then let Mother Nature enforce the ban. :lol:

Noy,

Do you know that you're becoming China's best ally on the claims in West Palawan Seas?

Your incompetence in foreign policy and diplomatic amateurism is surely helping china's actions against our sovereignity.

Pls smoke your cigarettes more, Mr. President. :lol:

natawa ako sa nabasa ko - The United states of America is among the 34 nations who have not ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Seas (UNCLOS)...kaya wapakels sila...

the bigger surprise - The Philippines ALSO is not with the UNCLOS - WHEN IT COMES TO SOVEREIGNTY ISSUES LIKE THAT ON SCARBOROUGH...yes Marcos has ratified UNCLOS but not in it's entirety declaring that it doesn't recognize UNCLOS in certain issues...sadly the issue that "we" do not recognize is...THE ISSUE OF SOVEREIGNTY! WAPAK! TOINGKS!

I wouldn't fault the Philippines for not not recognizing the UNCLOS issue on sovereignity. For it to work, ALL claimants should agree to the sovereignity issue. It's a matter of positioning for future negotiation. Not accepting it puts us on the same negotiating position as the other claimants.