camiar

2 years to go, and no more BS Aquino...

Of course the ideal situation is to build our strength so we can afford to be neutral to both. But until such time that this ideal situation is achieved, I think we have no choice but to take sides. And if it's a choice between siding with the good old US of A and the neighborhood bully to the north, well, it's quite obvious whose side I'll personally take.

Are we really taking sides? Or are we nothing but unwitting pawns?

It's obvious that the US cannot respond to China's creeping invasion - from reclaiming of shoals in the Philippine EEZ, to create islands big enough to build naval or air station, to outright drilling for oil right at Vietnam's doorstep.

It's World War II scenario again as we are reminded of Pres. Manuel Quezon's lament that "Uncle Sam sits idly while his daughter is being raped in the backroom, wringing his hands in worry about the fate of his cousins in Europe..."

And we, Filipinos, never learned that the only way we can get out of this morass is to rely solely on ourselves, as Vietnam does.

But isn't maintaining America's alliances and partnerships with China's neighbors is in itself in line with its own interests? Since the US has no direct interests in the atolls, reefs, and small islets in the South China/West Philippine Sea, it needs to cultivate these alliances so as to appear as a disinterested spectator but at the same time ensure that the disputed region remains open to international shipping which IS in the interests of the US.

Yes, absolutely. America cultivates its alliances with China’s neighbors for its own interests. It’s not really interested in the territorial disputes between China and her neighbors. What America is really interested in is to prevent China from taking control of the South China Sea, which could open Chinese Navy'’s access to the Pacific and Indian Ocean.

Who stands in China’s way to its access to the Pacific Ocean? Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines.

Who stands in China’s way to its access to the Indian Ocean? Malaysia and Indonesia.

That's the first-island-chain that China wants to control.

In other words, it does not want to confront China directly. Rather, it prefers to use proxies (that would be us, Vietnam, etc.) to counter China's growing influence in this part of the world.

Again, you’re right. But the Americans do not expect us to fight China for them. They can bring in their men and military equipment. What they need are land bases for them to stage their forces.

If we are friendly with the US, we will always grant them the use of our bases.

China on the other hand would try to undermine our friendly ties with the US. Bullying is China’s tactic to make us doubt USA’s resolve to protect us on territorial dispute. And it’s working.

America's biggest nightmare would be if China convinces us to allow their naval assets unhindered passage to the Pacific Ocean, in exchange for their allowing us to freely exploit the KIG's oil and mineral deposits.

Besides, if there's a huge deposit of oil underneath the South China/West Philippine Sea, that's certainly to catch the interest of the Americans.

I don’t think US is really that much interested in the potential oil and mineral wealth in the KIG.

China and America are now playing the world domination game. Strategic control of the oceans is their real goal.

What’s more important for China is to drive the US out of South China Sea so that they can make it “Beijing’s lake” just as the Pacific Ocean is “Washington’s lake”. And America in turn trying to keep China contained within the South China Sea with the Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, Malaysia and Indonesia as buffer zone.

Right now it's all a mind game. China and the US are making moves based on certain assumptions they made. We are like pawns being played by both the US and China.

Anyway, that certainly is a very interesting article you posted. Truly food for thought.

It’s the fight of the big boys. We are just collateral damage.

So, we should think smart.

Do we really want to be used as pawns? If we are willing to play as pawns, what’s in it for us?

In the long run, taking whose side would be less hurtful to us?

Can we be smart enough to build our strength so we can be neutral to both?

A very interesting read on why China does what its doing now:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hugh-white/china-america-relations_b_5412014.html

to highlight:

"Their reasoning is simple enough. They know that America's position in Asia is built on its network of alliances and partnerships with many of China's neighbors. They believe that weakening these relationships is the easiest way to weaken U.S. regional power. And they know that...the bedrock of these alliances and partnerships is the confidence ...that America is able and willing to protect them from China's power.

So the easiest way for Beijing to weaken Washington's power in Asia is to undermine this confidence. And the easiest way to do that is for Beijing to press those friends and allies hard on issues in which America's own interests are not immediately engaged -- like a string of maritime disputes in which the U.S. has no direct stake.

By using direct armed pressure in these disputes, China makes its neighbors more eager for U.S. military support, and at the same time makes America less willing to give it...

In other words, by confronting America's friends with force, China confronts America with the choice between deserting its friends and fighting China.

Beijing is betting that, faced with this choice, America will back off and leave its allies and friends unsupported. This will weaken America's alliances and partnerships, undermine U.S. power in Asia, and enhance China's power..."

 

The original claimant has drilled for oil already and found none. Marcos in his hey days had a very profitable oil interests too with PNOC and Petron, and this prospect cannot escape his web of influence had the potential been clear and promising. Perhaps if we assume that Marcos is a shrewd investor and leader, then let us trust his decision not to waste time in this area. Let us give it a few more weeks or even a couple of months of Chinese due diligence then we can finally rest this case.

During Marcos's time, they didn't waste time drilling in West Philippine Sea areas because it's too deep. The cost of technology to drill at such depths was too expensive at that time. That is why Malampaya was built only recently when the new drilling methods and higher drilling accuracy became available for affordable deep sea oil drilling.

Tanong lang mga bossing: Are the uninhabitable islets near our shores, like Scarborough Shoal, Mischeef Reef, Reed Bank, etc. -- are they all part of the Spratlys? Kasi parang malayo sa mini-archipelago ng Spratlys.

Maps of the South China Sea / West Philippine sea disputed areas:

According to a pro-government Chinese newspaper, China will start fighting wars to acquire the disputed territories starting 2020.

follow this link:

http://www.ibtimes.com/china-engage-six-inevitable-wars-involving-us-japan-india-more-according-pro-government-chinese

----------------

Excerpts:

Over the next 50 years, the article expects China to be engaged in war over the following issues:

1. Taiwanese unification (2020-2025)

While China and Taiwan currently have fairly peaceful relations, the mainland continues to strive for “unification.”

2. South China Sea islands (2025-2030)

According to a translation of the original article, as published by StratRisk.com, following the inevitable "return" of Taiwan, “South East Asian countries” will “already be shivering.” This momentum will be the driving force behind negotiations to “reconquer” South China Sea islands like the Spratlys, which neighboring governments like Taiwan, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam all lay claim to.

3. “Southern Tibet" (2035-2040)

Though China and India share a long border along China’s southwest region, a Himalayan area claimed as "southern Tibet" is the main point of contention between the two huge nations. The article suggests that “the best strategy for China is to incite the disintegration of India” by dividing the nation into several smaller countries so “India will have no power to cope with China."

4. East China Sea islands (2040-2045)

Unsurprisingly, the newspaper reaffirms that the East China Sea island groups of Diaoyu and Ryukyu, known in Japan as Senkaku and Okinawa, belong to China. While the article says the conflict won’t take place until 2040, other scholars have estimated that a war between China and Japan, and likely the U.S., could happen sooner.

5. “Outer” Mongolia (2045-2050)

“If Outer Mongolia can return to China peacefully, it is the best result, of course; but if China meets foreign intervention or resistance, China should be prepared to take military action,” the article reads.

6. “Recover the territory seized by Russia” (2055-2060)

The article recognizes the current good relations between China and Russia but insists that “China never forgets the lands lost to Russia” in past centuries, adding that “when the chance comes, China will take back the lands.” The article is predictably confident that all wars would be won by the Chinese side, and Russia is no different: “After the victories of previous five wars, it is time to make Russians pay the price.”

^^

The facilities that will be built under EDCA are predominantly to support the logistics of US Navy fleet operating in the area. So, don't expect USAF in the picture.

F-22 Raptors are USAF birds. US Navy don't have them.

The Navy is getting F-35C Lightning, but since they only started taking deliveries of the new carrier-based JSFs last year, don't hold your breath waiting to see any of them flying in the Philippines.

You guys do realize that Revelations was written in a certain context that has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening today?

 

It's not meant to be a prophetic account.

Statistically, more than 80% of posters in this forum are products of Catholic Schools. That includes me. To me, the Bible, including the Book of Revelation and the Book of Daniel, has everything to do with what happened before, what is happening today and what will happen in the future. Also, some of us here are conversant with the Bible prophesies at a level higher than googling the Wikipedia.

So, to each his own.

It just so happen that bitcoin concept and the latest silicon wafer technology are enabling technologies that would make possible what the Bible described as the anti-Christ system of economy.

That's a scary thought. Imagine at the check out counter of a supermarket, the cashier places the RFID scanner on your forehead or hand and you're transaction's done. Normally I would favor such a technology but seeing as it fulfills prophecy as mentioned in Revelations, then I can't support it.

I don't think there's anything we can do to stop it. The Book of Revelation foretells that it will happen and it did not say anything about anybody being able to stop it.

And I saw in the internet today news about a new technology of producing a silicon wafer chip so thin that it can be flexible enough to be attached to human skins just like the kid's press-on tattoos.

http://www.worldindustrialreporter.com/next-generation-electronics-press-%e2%80%8b%e2%80%8bon-tattoo/

The current design of RFIDs are about the size of a grain of rice and have to be injected. That creates a fear factor for many who are afraid of injections. This new technology would be painless. It would promote better acceptance by majority of the people to have themselves marked.

Per yesterday's BusinessWorld Banking & Finance news:

"BSP mulls options as it crafts rules on bitcoin trading" - Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas (BSP) is considering requiring bitcoin intermediaries to become reporting entities as part of initial discussions on how to regulate the trade of virtual currency, an official said.

BSP's current concern right now is that lack of regulation pose serious risks to those who engage in virtual currency trading. Bitcoins can also be used in money laundering, or avoiding paying of taxes on sales transactions.

But since the BSP is now making serious moves to understand the system, chances are, virtual currency will eventually achieve legitimacy in commercial transactions. In the future, with RFIDs embedded on our foreheads and hands, we would be walking Automatic Trading Machines, able to buy and sell goods and services without cash or credit cards.

I really don't buy into all the bible stuff

 

people said the same thing about credit cards 30 years ago

RFID would be the enabling technology for cashless/cardless commerce. It's still in its infancy, but miniaturization of components will make the chips so small and easy to implant that it will be ubiquitous.

Human trials have already began:

In Europe, there have been several trials involving RFID implants in humans. Members of the exclusive Vaja Beach Club in Barcelona, Spain, are offered the opportunity to receive RFID chip implants as a means of gaining entry to the elite club and also to pay for drinks. The chips, which are implanted into the arms of members at the club, allow them to run up tabs without having to carry any other form of identification.

(Source: http://www.informationliberation.com/test.php?id=4841 )

If you use the concept of BitCoin commerce and enable it with RFID, you'll have the future economic system before you. It surely won't happen in our present generation, but the system and its enabling technology is already available. It's only a matter of time in the near future before everybody have to accept it as a necessary part of their lifestyle.

Revelation 13:16-17 says:

16. It (The Beast) also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17. so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Bitcoin could be the model for future commercial transactions.

You trade goods and services through digital money. RFID technology makes this possible. RFID stores all your relevant personal data as well as your earned digital money. RFID is inserted or embedded to your skin on your forehead and hands. To complete a commercial transaction, your forehead or hand is scanned and the digital money is exchanged. No need for cash or credit cards.

Sounds familiar? Read the book of the Apocalypse about the mark of 6 and 66.

Subject: Old Butch

Bert was in the fertilized egg business. He had several hundred young

'pullets,' and ten roosters to fertilize the eggs.

He kept records, and any rooster not performing went into the soup pot

and was replaced.

This took a lot of time, so he bought some tiny bells and attached them

to his roosters.

Each bell had a different tone, so he could tell from a distance, which

rooster was performing.

Now, he could sit on the porch and fill out an efficiency report by

just listening to the bells.

Bert's favourite rooster, old Butch, was a very fine specimen, but this

morning he noticed old Butch's bell hadn't rung at all!

When he went to investigate, he saw the other roosters were busy

chasing pullets, bells-a-ringing, but the pullets, hearing the roosters

coming, would run for cover.

To Bert's amazement, old Butch had his bell in his beak, so it couldn't ring.

He'd sneak up on a pullet, do his job and walk on to the next one. >

Bert was so proud of old Butch, he entered him in the Brisbane City

Show and he became an overnight sensation among the judges.

The result was the judges not only awarded old Butch the "No Bell Piece

Prize," but they also awarded him the "Pulletsurprise" as well.

Clearly old Butch was a politician in the making. Who else but a

politician could figure out how to win two of the most coveted awards

on our planet by being the best at sneaking up on the unsuspecting

populace and screwing them when they weren't paying attention.

Vote carefully in the next election, you can't always hear the bells.

I'd recommend you don't expect much from him. You'll end up happier that way, believe me.

 

I myself wasn't expecting much from him, yet he still managed to disappoint me.

I never expected anything from him.

Now I'm so disappointed that I was right.

The NBI report gave the Taiwanese president some room to wiggle out of his political blunder. He over-reacted to the incident and declared economic sanctions vs. the Philippines. It turns out to be more costly to Taiwanese businessmen dependent on Filipino workers than to Philippines.

The report also gave the amateur pinoy president some room to wiggle out of his blundering incompetence. He should have handled the incident personally by calling the Taiwanese president immediately to sort things out before the story hit the early morning news.

In the end, it's still the pinoys looking stupid and weak, apologizing for incidents resulting from our efforts to enforce the Philippine sovereignty.

Hoy, B.S.!

Sabi ni Trillanes, kilala mo na daw kung sinu-sino yung mga smuggling lords at customs kingpins. Hindi na raw kelangan ng congressional investigation para kilalanin sila. Nasa-sayo na kung may gagawin ka o wala. So ano ngayon ang gagawin mo?

Headlines in the Philippine Daily Inquirer, July 12, 2013 http://newsinfo.inqu...obes-p10-b-scam

 

So whatever happened to the "matuwid na daan" of Noynoy?

Pork Barrel should be abolished.

Senators & Congressmen have been spending tons of money to get themselves elected into position BECAUSE they want to get their hands on the Pork Barrel.

The Executive Department on its part controls the disbursement of Pork Barrel funds to keep congressmen subservient to Malacanang's agenda.

I stand by my statement about the function of intelligent journalism. Think of the time Erap called for a boycott of the Inquirer.

I'm not for Erap, but his call for Inquirer boycott was justified. Inquirer has degenerated as the propaganda machine of the oligarchs. During that time, it's nothing but negative journalism. Now that their candidate has won, suddenly their negative journalism disappeared? Do you see pictures of poverty on the front page like the ones they post everyday before?

Do not equate Inquirer with intelligent journalism.

Not to be OT, Dzhokhar's glamorous picture on cover page reeks of insensitivity. But I think it was well calculated to generate so much attention, and for sure, increased sales.

I had to backread. Ang off topic na natin. hahahaha

 

Uulitin ko na lang yung pinost kong article. mas relevant for this thread.

 

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2007/12/23/2003393815/1

Ansabi? "Weak" daw ang claim natin sa Batanes Islands. Talagang puro mga tanga lang sila. Hindi nila alam sinasabi nila.

Batanes Islands lie on the northern continental shelf of Luzon, and therefore inherently our territory.

This is the picture of the continental shelf.

You can see clearly that the Taiwan continental shelf is separated from the Luzon continental shelf by the Taiwan-Luzon trench. Malas lang nila walang isla dun sa side nila.

In principle, we assert our mineral and land rights to our continental shelves, since this region of the ocean is rich in natural resources such as marine life, mineral ores, and hydrocarbon deposits. Minerals in this area are also significantly easier to extract since it is relatively shallow by comparison. By convention, the Philippines, like many other marine countries, should defend our own continental shelves as territorial waters, since they are ours to use as natural resources.

Commercial fishing vessels unload their catch in fish ports where fish vendors, sardine manufacturers, processors bid on them. Exact quantity in tubs unloaded each night is public knowledge and can easily be converted to metric tons.

 

Regarding the Chinese in Palawan. The exotic sea creatures make more profit than galunggong in China. so It's really other way around, exotics which includes corrals are the priority. This is according to one of our partners in China.

Your statement only confirms what I said that BFAR does not and cannot accurately monitor the tonnage catch of each specie. They only look at the catch brought in by big commercial fishing boats. They only look at the major commercial species. That means their tonnage figures are just estimates. Their estimates can be off by 5 or 10% and nobody can tell. If they claim that the one-year fishing ban increased the galunggong catch by 6%, it's just pure hogwash.

The Chinese have over-fished their own territorial waters that's why they're here to poach. They wouldn't care if they catch exotics or commercial fish varieties. They're both money in their pockets. And don't tell me Chinese poachers are in our territorial waters just for the exotics. There are also Chinese poachers who are exclusively after the commercial varieties too. Both of them are stealing from us.

What about the territorial limits far north - in Batanes where the recent incident happened? How much space of territory are we looking at in that area?

So what about it? Do your own research and post it.

Just be reminded, this thread is about the West Philippine Sea.

As reference for our future discussions, the maps below shows the overlapping claims in West Philippine Sea.

OVERLAPPING TERRITORIAL CLAIMS:

UNCLOS EEZ vs. CHINA'S 9-DASHED LINES

OCCUPIED AREAS IN SPRATLYS

Why be evasive? Who fired at the boat? Is he trained to use firearm? Does he know the law? What is the extent of this MOU and under this understanding what agency ends up taking responsibility since there is normally a military chain of command?

 

You CLAIM that the vessel is deep inside our territory, then why let it escape? No gas or no guts? Now it is very difficult to ascertain just how deep the intrusion was. Contrary to your fear of sinking due to collision, the Taiwanese fishing vessel is not like a Spanish Galleon made of solid wood since the bullet easily penetrated what looks like thin PLYWOOD sheet instead.

I think Heatseeker would just love to answer your inane questions, so I'll just focus on the "wooden boat" issue.

If the Taiwanese boat is made of plywood, I would expect to see splintered wood around the bullet holes. Instead, you see clean holes just like the holes bullets would make on STEEL sheet.

Have you seen the keel of the boat? It looks like steel construction to me. It's even coated with red lead anti-corrosion paint.

Who occupies the Spratlys?

I made some research and listed them below.

The Philippines and Vietnam occupies the prime secure locations because they have the most of the islands.

China occupies reefs, that's why they have to build artificial concrete structures to occupy them.

An island is a piece of land surrounded by water

A reef is a coral or rock formation, or other feature lying beneath the surface of the water

A shoal is typically a long narrow sandbar, sometimes appearing above the water only during low tide

China – 6 reefs

Malaysia – 1 island, 5 reefs. 1 shoal

Philippines – 7 islands

Taiwan – 1 island, 1 reef

Vietnam – 6 islands

Occupied by China (PRC) (6 reefs)

Cuarteron Reef • (Huayang Reef)

Fiery Cross Reef • (Yongshu Reef)

Gaven Reefs • (Nanxun Reef and Xinan Reef)

Johnson South Reef • (Chigua Reef)

Mischief Reef • (Meiji Reef)

Subi Reef • (Zhubi Reef)

Occupied by Malaysia (1 island, 5 reefs, 1 shoal)

Ardasier Reef • (Ubi Reef)

Dallas Reef •( Laya Reef

Erica Reef • (Siput Reef)

Investigator Shoal • (Peninjau Shoal)

Louisa Reef •( Semarang Barat Kecil Reef)

Mariveles Reef • (Mantanani Reef)

Swallow Reef • (Layang-Layang Island)

Occupied by the Philippines (7 islands)

Thitu Island • (Pagasa Island)

West York Island • (Likas Island)

Northeast Cay • (Parola Island)

Nanshan Island • (Lawak Island)

Loaita Island • (Kota Island)

Flat Island • (Patag Island)

Lankiam Cay • (Panata Island)

Occupied by Taiwan (ROC) (1 island, 1 reef)

Taiping Island

Zhongzhou Reef

Occupied by Vietnam (6 islands)

Spratly Island • (Truong Sa Island)

Southwest Cay • (Song Tu Tay Island)

Sincowe Island • (Sinh Ton Island)

Sandcay • (Son Ca Island)

Namyit Island • (Nam Yet Island)

Amboyna Cay • (An Bang Island)