leloup Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Going back to the topic in Thailand do we have a Muai Thai gym in south coz I live in BF homes Pque. sayang Ultra is really far from me. There's an MAP chapter in Paranaque and Alabang. I'll check with my team mates regarding the details. If you work in Makati, there are classes in Red Corner Intercon Hotel, but their level of training is for beginners, you might get bored. You can spar with the instructors, though. Anyway... going back to the topic... Would muay thai find self-defense applications ONLYin unarmed combat??? yes it is quite effective but against knives... clubs and such???I recently read about bando.. a burmese art similar to muay thai..but it's training encompasesweapons...wasn't muay thai derive from wai kru.. or some ancient art using swords etc...???IF JUST FOR DISCUSSION... SIR PLAKAT...SOME INFO... TNX... I don't know in other gyms, but most of the training we do at MAP are for competition/fighting in the ring. And there's a big difference between ring fighting and street fighting. Wai Kru is a ceremony giving honor to the teacher and to the school. YOu are referring to Krabi Krabong, the sword art of Thailand. If you want to learn how to defend against knives, sticks, etc. our very own Kali/Arnis is very effective, might even be more effective than Krabi Krabong. The common misconception is that when you don't have any stick, Kali/Arnis is useless. But the techniques of these art can be applied in empty hand and can be effective against weapons. Quote Link to comment
poging_bagsik13 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Im vincent tuppil, of ToughGuys International, a full contact karate sport (bare knuckle), im a black belt for about 3yrs. ToughGuys is a christian martial arts organization. if you want to know more about us, feel free to visit this site www.toughguysfullcontact.i8.com Quote Link to comment
smart-ass Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 There's an MAP chapter in Paranaque and Alabang. I'll check with my team mates regarding the details. If you work in Makati, there are classes in Red Corner Intercon Hotel, but their level of training is for beginners, you might get bored. You can spar with the instructors, though. I don't know in other gyms, but most of the training we do at MAP are for competition/fighting in the ring. And there's a big difference between ring fighting and street fighting. Wai Kru is a ceremony giving honor to the teacher and to the school. YOu are referring to Krabi Krabong, the sword art of Thailand. If you want to learn how to defend against knives, sticks, etc. our very own Kali/Arnis is very effective, might even be more effective than Krabi Krabong. The common misconception is that when you don't have any stick, Kali/Arnis is useless. But the techniques of these art can be applied in empty hand and can be effective against weapons. tnx for again for the correction... I remember sir leloup you did say tha wai kru was ceremonial... I recently read in a back issue of Inside Kung fu/ or was it Blackbelt???... in which bando...had some animalforms... similar to kungfu...and had weapons like the kukris.. stick... long pole... etc. It didn't even remotelyresemble muay thai... as you said in a past post...burmese/bando similar to muay thai??? I amconfused....maybe bando is not burmese but nepalese ... Some clarifications would be greatlyappreciated... Thanks... Quote Link to comment
leloup Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 nx for again for the correction... I remember sir leloup you did say tha wai kru was ceremonial...I recently read in a back issue of Inside Kung fu/ or was it Blackbelt???... in which bando...had some animalforms... similar to kungfu...and had weapons like the kukris.. stick... long pole... etc. It didn't even remotelyresemble muay thai... as you said in a past post...burmese/bando similar to muay thai??? I amconfused....maybe bando is not burmese but nepalese ... Some clarifications would be greatlyappreciated... Thanks... Please, don't call me Sir, just my nick will do. . Frankly, I'm not that knowledgeable about Bando or its origin. I just had an opportunity to talk with the coach of the Burmese muay thai team last SEA Games. He said that Burmese boxing/Bando's techniques are similar to muay thai but they are just using twisted cotton ropes as handwraps during matches and not gloves. And most of their team members are originally Bando practitioners. He also said that there are Burmese bando fighters who cross the boarder to fight muay thai matches in Thailand because the money purses are bigger. poging_bagsik13 Posted Yesterday, 02:24 PM Im vincent tuppil, of ToughGuys International, a full contact karate sport (bare knuckle), im a black belt for about 3yrs. ToughGuys is a christian martial arts organization. if you want to know more about us, feel free to visit this site www.toughguysfullcontact.i8.comPlease give my warmest regards to Sensei Vincent Vicencio. I used to be his student way back 1994-95 when he's still with Pure Energy Karate Club. His cousin, Pastor John Garcia is my pastor. nx for again for the correction... I remember sir leloup you did say tha wai kru was ceremonial...I recently read in a back issue of Inside Kung fu/ or was it Blackbelt???... in which bando...had some animalforms... similar to kungfu...and had weapons like the kukris.. stick... long pole... etc. It didn't even remotelyresemble muay thai... as you said in a past post...burmese/bando similar to muay thai??? I amconfused....maybe bando is not burmese but nepalese ... Some clarifications would be greatlyappreciated... Thanks... Please, don't call me Sir, just my nick will do. . Frankly, I'm not that knowledgeable about Bando or its origin. I just had an opportunity to talk with the coach of the Burmese muay thai team last SEA Games. He said that Burmese boxing/Bando's techniques are similar to muay thai but they are just using twisted cotton ropes as handwraps during matches and not gloves. And most of their team members are originally Bando practitioners. He also said that there are Burmese bando fighters who cross the boarder to fight muay thai matches in Thailand because the money purses are bigger. poging_bagsik13 Posted Yesterday, 02:24 PM Im vincent tuppil, of ToughGuys International, a full contact karate sport (bare knuckle), im a black belt for about 3yrs. ToughGuys is a christian martial arts organization. if you want to know more about us, feel free to visit this site www.toughguysfullcontact.i8.comPlease give my warmest regards to Sensei Vincent Vicencio. I used to be his student way back 1994-95 when he's still with Pure Energy Karate Club. His cousin, Pastor John Garcia is my pastor. Quote Link to comment
smart-ass Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 calling you SIR... it's a generation thing...to show that you deserve respect...please don't takeany offense...i know in today's cynical world SIR... may seem that I'm patronizing you...YUNG TIPONG BINOBOLA KITA... to get to your good side...NO MALICE INTENDED...anyway... thanks for the info... at least i know now that burmese boxing is far more brutalthan muay thai... ( consider the rope wrappings... as oppose to boxing gloves...)thanks again leloup... Quote Link to comment
Boysbe Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 About the martial arts. Ever heard of the Ninjitsu and dim mak? I was looking for any school here in the Phil which are teaching the said techniques. Most probably no other school here or in the world would teach such deadly and highly efficient techniques in the world, mainly it does not really need much training and it has the specifics of both anatomy and some martial arts (Aikido, karate, judo), and when used properly can immobilize and incapacitate any types of adversaries. Hmm, if there is non, probably id settle with Taekwondo. :cool: Oh,and about the muay thai? That certain technique has one of the strongest kicks in the world. "Every guy should know how to fight. To fight - to protect. " Quote Link to comment
pogingpogi Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 (edited) just a question here ...my little bro is choosing between traditional aikido or arnis de mano of presas...what's your opinion about this? where will you train... Edited December 9, 2006 by pogingpogi Quote Link to comment
smart-ass Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 There are chinese martial arts schools that teach dim mak... the problem is...it is byinvitation only...you need to be refered to by a senior member of the school who wouldvouche for your character... in order for you to be admitted...And contrary to your belief..learning dim mak requires hard and dedicated training... sometimes lasting for years...andit is not simply knowledge of anatomy... or physiology...and traditional Chinese medicine... which is most of time overlooked... traditional aikido or arnis presas style...???? Depends on your bro's physique... temperament..mindset...patience and perserverance...ability to endure pain and punishment... Quote Link to comment
Olympus Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 just a question here ...my little bro is choosing between traditional aikido or arnis de mano of presas...what's your opinion about this? where will you train... Does he have other options as well or has he set his mind on these two? Quote Link to comment
Boysbe Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 There are chinese martial arts schools that teach dim mak... the problem is...it is byinvitation only...you need to be refered to by a senior member of the school who wouldvouche for your character... in order for you to be admitted...And contrary to your belief..learning dim mak requires hard and dedicated training... sometimes lasting for years...andit is not simply knowledge of anatomy... or physiology...and traditional Chinese medicine... which is most of time overlooked... traditional aikido or arnis presas style...???? Depends on your bro's physique... temperament..mindset...patience and perserverance...ability to endure pain and punishment... Wow,it really will take years noh? I think you were referring to the Wudan mountain training sanctuary in middle china. well as long as there are E-books of Dimak training, i guess it would be fine. You really wouldnt believe how much information you could find in the net, all it depends is how you use your knowledge. Quote Link to comment
pogingpogi Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Does he have other options as well or has he set his mind on these two? yun nga lang options niya eh...he wants only 2 option ...and he's choosing between aikido or arnis/manomano by presas Quote Link to comment
Olympus Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 yun nga lang options niya eh...he wants only 2 option ...and he's choosing between aikido or arnis/manomano by presas If this is the same brother of yours na kilala ko, pakausap mo sa akin when we meet next time Quote Link to comment
pogingpogi Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 If this is the same brother of yours na kilala ko, pakausap mo sa akin when we meet next time nope yung 1 pa Quote Link to comment
leloup Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 calling you SIR... it's a generation thing...to show that you deserve respect...please don't takeany offense...i know in today's cynical world SIR... may seem that I'm patronizing you...YUNG TIPONG BINOBOLA KITA... to get to your good side...NO MALICE INTENDED...anyway... thanks for the info... at least i know now that burmese boxing is far more brutalthan muay thai... ( consider the rope wrappings... as oppose to boxing gloves...)thanks again leloup... Don't worry none taken. It's about patronizing me. Medyo I feel so old lang if someone calls me Sir. That's what the Burmese coach also said. And that's the reason why Bando will is difficult to promote because of its brutal nature. Quote Link to comment
Olympus Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 nope yung 1 pa he might wanna check out traditional jujitsu, Kali Ilustirsimo and Lightning Scientific arnis as alternatives Quote Link to comment
smart-ass Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Wow,it really will take years noh? I think you were referring to the Wudan mountain training sanctuary in middle china. well as long as there are E-books of Dimak training, i guess it would be fine. You really wouldnt believe how much information you could find in the net, all it depends is how you use your knowledge. believe me sir... you can NEVER LEARN DIM MAK from a book....most of the time... what theywrote in those books are exactly the opposite of what you are suppose to do...SADYANG MINAMALIintentionally misleading you...and if they do tell you correctly the proper things to do...some of the more important instructions are omitted...you might end up hurting your self...The Wudan feature in NGMag...is a western eyeview of that style of chinese martial arts...MABABAW NA PAG-UNAWA...YOU CAN NEVER QUANTIFY THINGS LIKE SENSITIVITY...OR "CHI' OR WHAT IS REFER TO AS INTRINSIC ENERGY...PLEASE LEARN FROM A QUALIFIEDINSTRUCTOR IF YOU FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO FIND ONE... PCENSYA NA...VERY FEW ARE LEFT... Quote Link to comment
Boysbe Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 believe me sir... you can NEVER LEARN DIM MAK from a book....most of the time... what theywrote in those books are exactly the opposite of what you are suppose to do...SADYANG MINAMALIintentionally misleading you...and if they do tell you correctly the proper things to do...some of the more important instructions are omitted...you might end up hurting your self...The Wudan feature in NGMag...is a western eyeview of that style of chinese martial arts...MABABAW NA PAG-UNAWA...YOU CAN NEVER QUANTIFY THINGS LIKE SENSITIVITY...OR "CHI' OR WHAT IS REFER TO AS INTRINSIC ENERGY...PLEASE LEARN FROM A QUALIFIEDINSTRUCTOR IF YOU FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO FIND ONE... PCENSYA NA...VERY FEW ARE LEFT... Thank you po for the rather convincing post, Yet the meaning of how Martial arts is performed differs in every person and his aspect in life. Is it not that the true purpose of the meaning of Martial arts is to protect, and or to find ones center and peace. I try to use the aspects of this coarses in order to improve and find peace in myself and not to cause harm. I also want to learn this because the true master is all but within us. The true test of any martial arts is power, speed, and control as well as the center, "hit hard, hit fast, hit with control" the true aspect of Ninjutsu was mislead because the keepers of knowledge has different teachings through time because of the different idiologies surrounding any type of Martial arts,thus it is already mislead us from the very beginning, it is up to the student to find the meaning of it all. Dim mak and Ninjitsu is an old craft, and so I dont think that there are still true masters out there. The fact of the matter is I already had tried taekwondo,Karate,gymwork, and arnis,and with that i can honestly say that power isnt always everything, these 2 techniques utilizes what other arts could not, true balance of the 3 fundamentals of Martial arts and not through sheer balance and bulk strength, it is perfect for the persons who couldnt protect themselves and has no power to do so. Is it not the teaching of the arm forms in martial arts? Key of center and peace? The true master is within us, yet because the there is no guidance, it may rather take a long time to master. Wudan has also a sense of that, true peace in which we can draw power from, because without peace, anger cannot achieve anything. So thank you sir for your concern, and I hope that many others would understand the deeper meaning of the Martial arts.Thank you so much Sir for your concern.. Quote Link to comment
MiG-29C Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 just a question here ...my little bro is choosing between traditional aikido or arnis de mano of presas...what's your opinion about this? where will you train... ***Reply: While I don't consider myself a martial artist, I humbly suggest that you choose the discipline that will suite your lifestyle. It's nice to learn by starting first with the art of fighting with bare hands, unarmed. Arnis is useful but the thing is, you don't carry a stick with you all the time. You'll never know, one day you're at a mall and suddenly you find yourself alone in some dark alley on your way home and 2-3 gangbangers are about to bash your head. What will you do? You don't have the sticks with you? To my way of thinking, I guess it's a good idea to master the basics first. Learning to use various weapons will come at the right time. Choose a martial art that suits your lifestyle. No martial art is superior over the other. It's the man, the mind and the heart that makes a particular discipline or style effective. The weapon is just an instrument. Peace! Quote Link to comment
smart-ass Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 ***Reply: While I don't consider myself a martial artist, I humbly suggest that you choose the discipline that will suite your lifestyle. It's nice to learn by starting first with the art of fighting with bare hands, unarmed. Arnis is useful but the thing is, you don't carry a stick with you all the time. You'll never know, one day you're at a mall and suddenly you find yourself alone in some dark alley on your way home and 2-3 gangbangers are about to bash your head. What will you do? You don't have the sticks with you? To my way of thinking, I guess it's a good idea to master the basics first. Learning to use various weapons will come at the right time. Choose a martial art that suits your lifestyle. No martial art is superior over the other. It's the man, the mind and the heart that makes a particular discipline or style effective. The weapon is just an instrument. Peace! Arnis???.... only when you have your sticks with you...??? Arnis... does find translation into empty hands...or as you refer to it... unarmed combat...Didn't you watched bourne identity.??? and its sequel??? or The Hunted???those movies featured the unarmed aspect of arnis.. or Kali.. aikido...all their movements are predicated on the sword or to be more specific ... the katana... training with weapons does put your unarmed training on hyperdrive... Quote Link to comment
MiG-29C Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Arnis???.... only when you have your sticks with you...??? Arnis... does find translation into empty hands...or as you refer to it... unarmed combat...Didn't you watched bourne identity.??? and its sequel??? or The Hunted???those movies featured the unarmed aspect of arnis.. or Kali.. ***Reply: Yeah, I saw the movie on DVD. Astig nga eh. I checked out the special features menu on the DVD and I found out this simple but deadly martial arts traces its roots here in the Philippines. What makes it interesting is the fact that its moves are uncomplicated. KISS Principle kumbaga, and you can use practically anything available under your disposal as a weapon - even a mere ballpen. This approach makes sense, especially nowadays that we live in a civilization governed by laws, regulations. Carrying knives or the like might get you in trouble with the cops, and not everyone could afford owning a licensed firearm. Kali provides a good alternative. Quote Link to comment
smart-ass Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 ***Reply: Yeah, I saw the movie on DVD. Astig nga eh. I checked out the special features menu on the DVD and I found out this simple but deadly martial arts traces its roots here in the Philippines. What makes it interesting is the fact that its moves are uncomplicated. KISS Principle kumbaga, and you can use practically anything available under your disposal as a weapon - even a mere ballpen. This approach makes sense, especially nowadays that we live in a civilization governed by laws, regulations. Carrying knives or the like might get you in trouble with the cops, and not everyone could afford owning a licensed firearm. Kali provides a good alternative. the underlying rule when it comes to kali, arnis or escrima... ( same banana... iba-iba lang ang tawag ) or FMA...Filipino Martial Arts... is... YOU ONLY USE YOUR BARE HANDS WHEN YOU CANNOT GROPE FOR ANY WEAPON...IMPROVISED OR NOT...WHICH MAKES PERFECT SENSE..ALWAYS OPT FOR AN ADVANTAGE... MAGULANG TALAGAANG PINOY KAHIT SA AWAY... Quote Link to comment
pogingpogi Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 is arnis also teaches mano mano ( empty hand combat?) Watch out for ACA2006...... Quote Link to comment
leloup Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 While I don't consider myself a martial artist, I humbly suggest that you choose the discipline that will suite your lifestyle. It's nice to learn by starting first with the art of fighting with bare hands, unarmed. Arnis is useful but the thing is, you don't carry a stick with you all the time. You'll never know, one day you're at a mall and suddenly you find yourself alone in some dark alley on your way home and 2-3 gangbangers are about to bash your head. What will you do? You don't have the sticks with you? It is a common misconception that Arnis or Kali is only good when you have a stick or a knife, a misconception common to those who do not practice the art. These two FMA does have empty hands conversion that enables its practitioners to fight even without holding a weapon. Most of the street fights or attacks done in the street are either multiple and armed. And most of the Kali and Arnis system trains for these kind of situations. They train weapons first then if you advances, you are taught how to fight empty hands. The reason is simple, if you know how a weapon moves and its trajectory, then you will know how to defend against it. For example, if an attacker holds a knife like he is holding an ice pick or when he is holding a knife like when one is cutting onions, you would know what will be the trajectory of the knife, thus make the necessary actions based on the situation. We, Pinoys have the best weapons system in the world, that even the US Marines have included Pekiti Tirsia Kali in their training. Ask Pinoys in the US how big FMA is and you will be surprised. It is sad that FMA is not as popular in its country of origin. By the way, the FMA featured in Bourne Identity and The Hunted is Sayoc Kali. Chris Sayoc, the head of the school, unfortunately is based in the US and doesn't have any school here. They have a practitioner in Cavite but my contacts told me that his techniques are no way comparable to the original Sayoc Kali. Quote Link to comment
smart-ass Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 SAYOC KALI is Tuhon chris sayoc interpretation of Pekiti-tirsia...plus some of hisown...In most of the demonstrations in the US ... during Filipino community events/happenings..Chris sayoc was the partner of Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje... of Pekiti-tirsia.. maybe due to someadministrative reasons.. they had a falling out...so Chris sayoc made it out on his own...Cavite maybe his home province.... but he learned his art.. in the US..under Leo Gaje....Both arts are just as lethal... Quote Link to comment
Plakat Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Same here please don't call me sir lol ok about Muai Thai in Parañaque and Alabang, I'm interested to see how they practice and might join them too. Also you guys are mentioning Presas, please verify if this is Remy Presas Jr., I know this guy and he's a good guy I met him back in 1994 he used to teach me Arnis (but only for 4 weeks) sabi ko mas masarap uminom kaysa mag Arnis lol.... I don't know if he is still teaching in Lyceum, any info about him will be appreciated, I need to visit the guy I haven't seen him since 1996. Quote Link to comment
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