Build A Model Body!

[crazykalbo]

Sir Olympus and to all other Training Gurus Here,

 

Enge naman program. I've been invited to participate in Flag Football as a FullBack (FB) and I need to be HUGE, BIG, and RIPPED. Is that possible? I dont want to be big kasi tapos dami naman bodyfats. Gusto ko, Im big because of my lean muscle mass. Likewise, Id love to develop more explosiveness since Im going to be a power athlete again. Id appreciate the help! Thanks!

[turboneticssx8]

Better post it po sa supplement thread.

 

But to ans your question.

 

Most body builder (not all) would take whey or powerbars after workout.

 

BUT take one serving a day. Too much protein is not good for you. I really want give more techniques or ways how to deal with whey and protein bars kaya lang I dont know your diet.

 

Again just for a safe suggestion: Take one serving a day after workout.

But if you could manage to have a good diet you really dont need those supplements.

 

 

so ang gagawin ko before workout yung powerbar then after workout yung whey w/ milk. :cool:

 

Bakit din masama yung sobra sa whey?

 

Minsan kasi before and after workout ako then 1 serving pa sa rest day ko.

 

Thanks!

:cool:

[turboneticssx8]

Ito pala bago kong program. Open ako for opinions, corrections, good and bad comment para ma-improve ko sarili ko sa gym.

 

 

DAY 1

 

Chest- Benchpress (barbell)

Incline- (barbell) dito ako babanat ng mabigat tapos lower reps

Dumbell flys- 2 sets lang siguro

 

Barbell curl

Alternate dumbell curl

 

Tricep extension

 

Dumbell shrugs

Abs

 

 

 

DAY 2

 

Latpulldown front

Rows

 

Military press (barbell)

lateral raise

 

1 exercise ulit para triceps

Abs

 

 

DAY 3

 

Legs

Abs

 

 

 

Monday Wednesday Friday yan.

 

 

[turboneticssx8]

Hindi ko pa kasi alam yung mga tawag sa exercise ng legs and abs.

[turboneticssx8]

What are the details of your legs and abs workout po????

 

For me the arangement is wrong. I would do all of the exercise for a certain muscle group in one day and give it a rest on the following day. I would suggest this arrangement.

 

DAY 1

 

Chest- Benchpress (barbell)

Incline- (barbell) dito ako babanat ng mabigat tapos lower reps

Dumbell flys- 2 sets lang siguro

 

Barbell curl

Alternate dumbell curl

 

Tricep extension

1 exercise ulit para triceps

 

Abs

 

DAY 2

 

Latpulldown front

Rows

 

Military press (barbell)

lateral raise

Dumbell shrugs

 

 

Abs

 

DAY 3

 

Legs

Abs

If your would do this once a week, you wont progress. Better split it in two days or have a six - five days work out per week.

 

You could also do Day2 and Day3 on the same day.

 

max ko na yung three times a week na workout dahil sa work. Madalas twice a week lang ako. Masama ba kung once a week lang workout ko sa muscles ko?

[turboneticssx8]

No thats not bad. But development would be very slow.

 

But its better than not going to the gym for physical improvement.

 

Better try the two day split that I recomended.

 

 

Ok subukan ko this week. Minsan kasi may mga exercises na natatagalan ako lalo na kung favorite ko yung part na yun like chest. minsan kasi sa sobrang intense umaabot ako ng 5 sets hanggang hindi ko na kaya yung weight.

 

Sa incline barbell ako nagbabanat ng sobrang bigat.

[Olympus]

Kailan ba best inumin and whey w/ milk ko? before or after workout?

 

Kailan din okey kainin ang powerbar ko? before or during workout?

 

After workout

 

Sir Olympus and to all other Training Gurus Here,

 

Enge naman program. I've been invited to participate in Flag Football as a FullBack (FB) and I need to be HUGE, BIG, and RIPPED. Is that possible? I dont want to be big kasi tapos dami naman bodyfats. Gusto ko, Im big because of my lean muscle mass. Likewise, Id love to develop more explosiveness since Im going to be a power athlete again. Id appreciate the help! Thanks!

 

Bill Starr 5x5 do a google search

[Olympus]

hello to all. whoo......it's been a while since i've visited this forum.

ang hirap talaga pag madami kang work. i'm glad that this thread is still alive and the fighting is still rocking.

yeah........kinakawawa niyo na naman si adrean48. hahaha.

anyway, nice program that you have equus. anyway, just want to post comment on some topics here.

i'll generalized this topic since some of you have different explanation with hernia. there are different types of hernia, the one olympus is talking about is abdominal hernia which is caused by weak abdominals. the one discussed in this topic is inguinal hernia, which is caused by increase pressure in the abdominal cavity such as valsalva maneuver and lifting heavy weights. recent studies showed that lifting weights is not really the culprit, however majority of the patients who have inguinal hernia are lifting heavy objects not just weights. however, studies recommend that we should not do valsalva maneuver since it increases the pressure in our abdominal wall. One more thing, holding your breath does not only increase the pressure in your abdominal cavity but also in the thoracic cavity which is very dangerous cause it limits the blood supply and oxygen to your brain.

What is valsalva maneuver?

A Valsalva maneuver performed against a closed glottis results in a drastic increase in pressure in the thoracic cavity, the airtight section of the torso that houses the lungs and heart. In normal exhalation, the diaphragm relaxes, pushing up and into the thoracic cavity. This increases pressure in the cavity and forces the air out of the lungs. However, when the air cannot escape, as when the glottis is closed in a Valsalva maneuver, pressure simply continues to build inside the abdomen and thoracic cavity until the diaphragm relaxes or the air is allowed to escape. This reduces the amount of blood flow into the thoracic cavity, especially in the veins leading to the right atrium of the heart.

 

The Valsalva maneuver is used as a pressure equalization technique by scuba divers and airplane passengers to avoid barotrauma and discomfort inside their ears when they move to a higher pressure breathing environment.To apply pressure in the eustachian tubes, a person using this technique pinches the nose, closes the mouth, and tries to exhale. The technique works by raising the pressure in the throat so that a small volume of air moves from the throat to the ears through the Eustachian tubes which connect them. It also increases intrathoracic pressure, discussed below.People inadvertently perform closed-glottis Valsalva maneuvers when blowing up a balloon or "bearing down" for a bowel movement. The increase of thoracoabdominal pressure is reproduced while coughing or sneezing.

 

The Valsalva Maneuver is an orthopedic test used to generally screen for a long list of conditions. It may be done with a nose pinch to assess cranial symptoms or without to assess abdominal or thoracic symptoms. The Valsalva test has physiological effects for both a positive and negative result, and the practitioner must differentiate between the two, then follow with more specific tests to assess more specifically. In a normal (negative) result, if the pressure is held for long enough, one will begin to feel as if pressure were building in the head, followed by dizziness and lightheadedness upon release of the maneuver.

Positive signs include pain, either local to the lesion site or along a dermatomal pattern. Other sensations may be elicited if the lesion affects motor but not sensory nerves. A positive Valsalva maneuver may point to a space-occupying lesion, such as a herniated disc, osteophyte or tumor, which would increase pressure within the spinal cord or against a specific organ. It is important to follow this very general screening test with more specific orthopedic tests to isolate where a lesion might be, and nature of the ailment. It should be used cautiously with clients who have cardiac disorders, as the temporarily decreased blood supply to the brain may result in post-test dizziness or syncope. Performing the Valsalva maneuver habitually while bearing down on a bowel movement may lead to the weakening of the large-intestinal wall and the formation of diverticula, or weaken the inguinal tissues in men so that any unusual strain leads to a hernia. It is specifically this phenomena that various pathologists have cited as the most likely cause of the death of Elvis Presley. [Elvis' reliance on opiates slowed down the locomotive process of digestion, resulting in recurring constipation.] Relaxing on the toilet and taking time to let peristalsis do most of the work of defecation, together with a high-fiber diet, can forestall either or both conditions. The Valsalva maneuver is also used by physicians to ease the entry of their index finger during a digital rectal examination. The Valsalva maneuver is also used in Dentistry in the fabrication of complete dentures. It is used to locate and mark what is called as the posterior palatal seal area, by marking the Ah-line on the palate.

 

so EG, unless you have an article saying that valsalva protects the spine, you might want to post it so that the readers would know your point.

the belt's primary use is for the person to achieve the correct anatomical position or proper body mechanics during lifting. this does not protect you what soever from injuries, but as long as you know that your position is correct, changes are, the less injury that you might have encounter.

what the article means is proper breathing mechanics. i did not read there that the person should hold his/her breath during lifting. that's why, breathing is important because a lot of people tends to forget to inhale and exhale during vigorous exercises and lifting heavy.

this is false, if you have a very strong abs, you will surely have back pain since your abs will pull you in a kyphotic posture and the lordotic position will be gone. you should have both strong abs and lower back muscle comprises of the iliocostalis, longisimus and semispinalis muscles, to have different force acting on your spine. like in vice versa, if you have strong lower back muscles, it will pull you in a lordotic curve and the pressure in you spine would increase.

the only thing that you will have muscle atrophy is when you will not move your muscles for weeks or months. example is being on a cast for one month, your muscle will surely atrophy.

olympus, you are now also a medical specialist. i hope you know the pathology of bursitis and rotator cuff impingement. doing upright row would not cause this condition unless your lifting too much that your shoulder muscles could not hold. however, if you are lifting just right, there is no way you can develop this medical condition.

 

 

here we go again...

[Olympus]

max ko na yung three times a week na workout dahil sa work. Madalas twice a week lang ako. Masama ba kung once a week lang workout ko sa muscles ko?

 

once a week is for maintenance. You'll need to go at least twice a week.

 

You'll be better off ollowing a strength training program

 

Upright rows are dangerous if you don't know the proper form, which 99% of the people don't knoww. This also goes for the press behind the neck, pulldowns and chins behind the neck.

 

Hmmm dont do five sets yet. 2-3 sets is good enough if you are a starter. Else you might injure yourself. Its really dull and boring on your first few months.

 

How many reps are you doing?

Sample is 12-10-8. As it becomes heavier, the reps is lessen. Or 3 sets of 10reps.

 

The rest between sets should be about 30sec - 1min. When it comes to legs it would take longer.

 

I'll be signing off for now.

 

Goodnight peeps

 

So what our beginners who are leaner, biger and stronger than you is wrong since they're doing 5 sets? You gotta be on crack to tell me that

[turboneticssx8]

Hmmm dont do five sets yet. 2-3 sets is good enough if you are a starter. Else you might injure yourself. Its really dull and boring on your first few months.

 

How many reps are you doing?

Sample is 12-10-8. As it becomes heavier, the reps is lessen. Or 3 sets of 10reps.

 

The rest between sets should be about 30sec - 1min. When it comes to legs it would take longer.

 

I'll be signing off for now.

 

Goodnight peeps

 

 

 

Incline

 

1st set mga 40lbs muna 12 reps

2nd set- 60lbs 10 reps

3rd set- 80 lbs 8 reps

last 100lbs. 4 to 6 reps

 

minsan

 

5th set 120 lbs mga 1 to 2 rep lang

[turboneticssx8]

once a week is for maintenance. You'll need to go at least twice a week.

 

You'll be better off ollowing a strength training program

 

Upright rows are dangerous if you don't know the proper form, which 99% of the people don't knoww. This also goes for the press behind the neck, pulldowns and chins behind the neck.

So what our beginners who are leaner, biger and stronger than you is wrong since they're doing 5 sets? You gotta be on crack to tell me that

 

 

 

Gagawin ko nalang yung sinabi ni andrean48. alternate ko yung DAy1 and DAY2 and 3 (DAy 2 and 3 same day).

[Olympus]

Incline

 

1st set mga 40lbs muna 12 reps

2nd set- 60lbs 10 reps

3rd set- 80 lbs 8 reps

last 100lbs. 4 to 6 reps

 

minsan

 

5th set 120 lbs mga 1 to 2 rep lang

 

You'll be better off starting with a foundational routine such as the 5x5 if you really wanna build strength and size. Doing splits right now isn't the best idea.

 

Do you wanna get as big, lean and strong as possible or are you happy being a pencil neck bodybuilder wannabe? teh choice is yours

[Equus]

crazykalbo, i remember some of your posts and i think you're athletic enough... explosive squats are good... if you really want to be explosive, plyometrics will do the thing... that is the shiznit in terms of getting explosive power with endurance...

 

however i have just been to ecclipse and i must say that there are guys there half my size doing the weight m doing... of course theres a whole lot of technique needed however point here is that those guys have explosive power... very admirable...

 

so i guess i should suggest a power or strength training program... seriously... the 5 x 5 is a good starter but you can access the net for other programs too...

 

andrean, your program seriously does not have enough volume to give you the gains that you need... seriously... also, dude, why the hell are you pre-exhausting your arms before you go on to your compund muscles... Even in our conventional training methods this is a definite NO NO... You cannot maximize the load that you need to develop your bigger muscle parts if your peripherals or accessory muscle groups are already tired.. dude naman... I don't completely agree with sina OLY and EG yet and i still want to apply some things that i know but you're program is against even trad programs... weird...

 

pareng turbo, i know that what andrean is saying seems more sound and easier but seriously if you want a REAL foundation, try ecclipse gym... or study the 5 x 5... then when you're stronger leaner and meaner, you can do whatever else you want kasi your body reacts better na coz your foundation is good... just my opinion...

[turboneticssx8]

crazykalbo, i remember some of your posts and i think you're athletic enough... explosive squats are good... if you really want to be explosive, plyometrics will do the thing... that is the shiznit in terms of getting explosive power with endurance...

 

however i have just been to ecclipse and i must say that there are guys there half my size doing the weight m doing... of course theres a whole lot of technique needed however point here is that those guys have explosive power... very admirable...

 

so i guess i should suggest a power or strength training program... seriously... the 5 x 5 is a good starter but you can access the net for other programs too...

 

andrean, your program seriously does not have enough volume to give you the gains that you need... seriously... also, dude, why the hell are you pre-exhausting your arms before you go on to your compund muscles... Even in our conventional training methods this is a definite NO NO... You cannot maximize the load that you need to develop your bigger muscle parts if your peripherals or accessory muscle groups are already tired.. dude naman... I don't completely agree with sina OLY and EG yet and i still want to apply some things that i know but you're program is against even trad programs... weird...

 

pareng turbo, i know that what andrean is saying seems more sound and easier but seriously if you want a REAL foundation, try ecclipse gym... or study the 5 x 5... then when you're stronger leaner and meaner, you can do whatever else you want kasi your body reacts better na coz your foundation is good... just my opinion...

 

 

 

Sir, tama ka sa sinabi mo na mas gusto ko muna yung hindi complicated na workout. hehehe. alam ko madami ako mali pang ginagawa pero slowly inaayos ko yun.

 

My problem is my back lang talaga (lower) everytime na pwersahin ko sarili ko (usually sa Chest) next day may muscle strain na ako sa likod!!!

 

Update ko nalang kayo. If I have the time lang sana papasok ako sa eclipse gym.

 

Thanks sa tulong nyo lahat!

 

 

PEACE!!! :mtc:

[Equus]

bro... listen.. ALL THE MORE THAT YOU NEED TO GET FOUNDATIONS PROPERLY FROM A REAL COACH...

 

im just being responsible here... if not Ecclipse, then for your sake please please please look for a coach knowledged enough to guide you properly... not some coach who will give you a list of things to do, make you force your rep, wont teach you how to breath and will just spot you and stuff and not explain the basics and fundamentals of a proper work out routine/program...

[turboneticssx8]

Eto nga pala stats ko as of today:

 

5'6" 120lbs

 

Supplements ko are Vit B complex, Vit C 1000mg, Vit E 400iu with selenium

 

Before workout powerbar (not all the time)

After workout (Milk with whey)

 

yogurt din ako before I sleep.

 

Pinakamalakas ako Incline Barbell Press (100lbs to 120lbs) 1 to 6 reps

 

Twice a week lang workout ko minsan thrice.

 

 

Next month check natin kung mag bago stats ko.

 

 

 

PEACE!

 

 

 

Oo nga pala! Next month lilipat na ako ng GYM! hahahaha!

[Eclipseguy]

Hmmm dont do five sets yet. 2-3 sets is good enough if you are a starter. Else you might injure yourself. Its really dull and boring on your first few months.

 

How many reps are you doing?

Sample is 12-10-8. As it becomes heavier, the reps is lessen. Or 3 sets of 10reps.

 

The rest between sets should be about 30sec - 1min. When it comes to legs it would take longer.

 

I'll be signing off for now.

 

Goodnight peeps

 

 

Of the probably 1000 (or more) beginners I've trained over the years, ALL have thrived with the Bill Starr 5x5 as a foundation/starter program. None who completed the 5-6 weeks of the initial 5x5 found it dull or boring. Anyone who finished it wanted to go further. Other than a random and rare muscle strain such as a hip flexor, none suffered an injury where they could not continue training. If someone is taught correctly, severe injuries are almost non-existant in beginning strength training while the weights are light.

[Eclipseguy]

crazykalbo, i remember some of your posts and i think you're athletic enough... explosive squats are good... if you really want to be explosive, plyometrics will do the thing... that is the shiznit in terms of getting explosive power with endurance...

 

 

Plyometrics are dangerous if administered to people with inadequate lower body strength. If tendons and ligaments are not conditioned to withstand high-tension eccentrics such as depth jumps or altitude landings, injuries are basically guaranteed. Many an individual who has inquired with us knew someone who got hurt at Sports Kamp or other facilities that teach plyo without a proper strength foundation.

 

Rules of thumb is that you should be able to squat 1.5-2 times your bodyweight, running should not "hurt"...or when you run you should feel like you are floating (light on your feet) before you can even think about plyo. Even then you can increase your vertical and explosive speed and power through squats and Olympic lifting alone that would take you to a National class level without plyo. Plyometrics is merely a tool that you'd use for 3-4 weeks at a time, and only as a primer for a pre-season conditioning phase. It is very advanced and should only be administered by a strength coach who knows what they are doing.

[Eclipseguy]

hello to all. whoo......it's been a while since i've visited this forum.

ang hirap talaga pag madami kang work. i'm glad that this thread is still alive and the fighting is still rocking.

yeah........kinakawawa niyo na naman si adrean48. hahaha.

anyway, nice program that you have equus. anyway, just want to post comment on some topics here.

i'll generalized this topic since some of you have different explanation with hernia. there are different types of hernia, the one olympus is talking about is abdominal hernia which is caused by weak abdominals. the one discussed in this topic is inguinal hernia, which is caused by increase pressure in the abdominal cavity such as valsalva maneuver and lifting heavy weights. recent studies showed that lifting weights is not really the culprit, however majority of the patients who have inguinal hernia are lifting heavy objects not just weights. however, studies recommend that we should not do valsalva maneuver since it increases the pressure in our abdominal wall. One more thing, holding your breath does not only increase the pressure in your abdominal cavity but also in the thoracic cavity which is very dangerous cause it limits the blood supply and oxygen to your brain.

What is valsalva maneuver?

A Valsalva maneuver performed against a closed glottis results in a drastic increase in pressure in the thoracic cavity, the airtight section of the torso that houses the lungs and heart. In normal exhalation, the diaphragm relaxes, pushing up and into the thoracic cavity. This increases pressure in the cavity and forces the air out of the lungs. However, when the air cannot escape, as when the glottis is closed in a Valsalva maneuver, pressure simply continues to build inside the abdomen and thoracic cavity until the diaphragm relaxes or the air is allowed to escape. This reduces the amount of blood flow into the thoracic cavity, especially in the veins leading to the right atrium of the heart.

 

The Valsalva maneuver is used as a pressure equalization technique by scuba divers and airplane passengers to avoid barotrauma and discomfort inside their ears when they move to a higher pressure breathing environment.To apply pressure in the eustachian tubes, a person using this technique pinches the nose, closes the mouth, and tries to exhale. The technique works by raising the pressure in the throat so that a small volume of air moves from the throat to the ears through the Eustachian tubes which connect them. It also increases intrathoracic pressure, discussed below.People inadvertently perform closed-glottis Valsalva maneuvers when blowing up a balloon or "bearing down" for a bowel movement. The increase of thoracoabdominal pressure is reproduced while coughing or sneezing.

 

The Valsalva Maneuver is an orthopedic test used to generally screen for a long list of conditions. It may be done with a nose pinch to assess cranial symptoms or without to assess abdominal or thoracic symptoms. The Valsalva test has physiological effects for both a positive and negative result, and the practitioner must differentiate between the two, then follow with more specific tests to assess more specifically. In a normal (negative) result, if the pressure is held for long enough, one will begin to feel as if pressure were building in the head, followed by dizziness and lightheadedness upon release of the maneuver.

Positive signs include pain, either local to the lesion site or along a dermatomal pattern. Other sensations may be elicited if the lesion affects motor but not sensory nerves. A positive Valsalva maneuver may point to a space-occupying lesion, such as a herniated disc, osteophyte or tumor, which would increase pressure within the spinal cord or against a specific organ. It is important to follow this very general screening test with more specific orthopedic tests to isolate where a lesion might be, and nature of the ailment. It should be used cautiously with clients who have cardiac disorders, as the temporarily decreased blood supply to the brain may result in post-test dizziness or syncope. Performing the Valsalva maneuver habitually while bearing down on a bowel movement may lead to the weakening of the large-intestinal wall and the formation of diverticula, or weaken the inguinal tissues in men so that any unusual strain leads to a hernia. It is specifically this phenomena that various pathologists have cited as the most likely cause of the death of Elvis Presley. [Elvis' reliance on opiates slowed down the locomotive process of digestion, resulting in recurring constipation.] Relaxing on the toilet and taking time to let peristalsis do most of the work of defecation, together with a high-fiber diet, can forestall either or both conditions. The Valsalva maneuver is also used by physicians to ease the entry of their index finger during a digital rectal examination. The Valsalva maneuver is also used in Dentistry in the fabrication of complete dentures. It is used to locate and mark what is called as the posterior palatal seal area, by marking the Ah-line on the palate.

 

so EG, unless you have an article saying that valsalva protects the spine, you might want to post it so that the readers would know your point.

the belt's primary use is for the person to achieve the correct anatomical position or proper body mechanics during lifting. this does not protect you what soever from injuries, but as long as you know that your position is correct, changes are, the less injury that you might have encounter.

what the article means is proper breathing mechanics. i did not read there that the person should hold his/her breath during lifting. that's why, breathing is important because a lot of people tends to forget to inhale and exhale during vigorous exercises and lifting heavy.

this is false, if you have a very strong abs, you will surely have back pain since your abs will pull you in a kyphotic posture and the lordotic position will be gone. you should have both strong abs and lower back muscle comprises of the iliocostalis, longisimus and semispinalis muscles, to have different force acting on your spine. like in vice versa, if you have strong lower back muscles, it will pull you in a lordotic curve and the pressure in you spine would increase.

the only thing that you will have muscle atrophy is when you will not move your muscles for weeks or months. example is being on a cast for one month, your muscle will surely atrophy.

olympus, you are now also a medical specialist. i hope you know the pathology of bursitis and rotator cuff impingement. doing upright row would not cause this condition unless your lifting too much that your shoulder muscles could not hold. however, if you are lifting just right, there is no way you can develop this medical condition.

 

 

I simply don't have time for this right now

 

What you are suggesting is in complete contrast as the principles taught by Dr. Mel Siff, a specialist in exercise physiology. Read Supertraining and Facts and Fallacies of Fitness, written by him. These books are in the library of basically every serious strength coach, both pro and amateur, around the world. What you are suggesting is the EXACT opposite of what is practiced by basically all of these coaches, gold medalist athletes, and professional athletes of the NBA, NFL, as well as the amateur NCAA. I've personally coached 1000's of individuals over the years as well as 16 years of my own training. Two of my athletes are International Class, meaning top 10 in their weight class. In all of what I've said, I've never witnessed athletes passing out or getting hernias from holding their breath. I HAVE seen, however, big guys who were picking up a 70lbs child rupture a vertebrae because they were laughing (and obviously exhaling) while picking up said child. This same individual could squat 500lbs on any given day.

 

Try this some time....squat with a 45lb bar on your back with breath held until the final portion of the completion of the rep. Then do it with empty lungs. You tell me which makes you feel more stable. The lungs and abs work together to stabilize your back, again, said over and over again by Dr. Siff. As a medical professional and a non-athlete with minimal athletic experience, I'd hope you understand when I say that the burden of proof is on you to produce a peer-reviewed research journal on why IAP/Valsalva is dangerous.

[Eclipseguy]

Also, the proper use of the belt is to increase IAP and therefore increase core response strength and further protect the spinal column. This increase in IAP is the same reason that wearing a belt will often give a 20-30lbs gain in strength. My female athlete can max at 355lbs while wearing a belt with the thick part at her stomach. Raw will allow her to lift 335lbs. My top male athlete maxes at 575lbs with a belt as worn by the lady athlete. Without belt he can do 545lbs. Their weight class is 48kg and 75kgs respectively. Again, the belt worn properly is for increased IAP.

 

The problem with your argument, DJ25, is you are correlating a CHRONIC condition with an ACUTE action such as short-term holding of the breath. We are talking about normal and healthy individuals here who have been cleared by a physician...not people who require the help of a therapist.

[dj25]

here we go again...

 

why OLY, afraid of arguing to an intelligent person. don't you feel the adrenaline rush when you have a heated argument.

 

Plyometrics are dangerous if administered to people with inadequate lower body strength. If tendons and ligaments are not conditioned to withstand high-tension eccentrics such as depth jumps or altitude landings, injuries are basically guaranteed. Many an individual who has inquired with us knew someone who got hurt at Sports Kamp or other facilities that teach plyo without a proper strength foundation. Rules of thumb is that you should be able to squat 1.5-2 times your bodyweight, running should not "hurt"...or when you run you should feel like you are floating (light on your feet) before you can even think about plyo. Even then you can increase your vertical and explosive speed and power through squats and Olympic lifting alone that would take you to a National class level without plyo. Plyometrics is merely a tool that you'd use for 3-4 weeks at a time, and only as a primer for a pre-season conditioning phase. It is very advanced and should only be administered by a strength coach who knows what they are doing.

 

What are plyometrics?

Plyometrics are any exercise where the muscle is contracted eccentricly then immediately, concentricly. In plain English, the muscle is stretched (i.e. loaded) before it is contracted. A good example is push-ups with a clap in-between each push-up. Your muscle (pectorals in this case) is elongated and loaded by the downward force of your body, then immediately you must contract the muscle to push yourself back up.

 

Why do I care?

 

A: Because plyometrics is one of the best ways if not the best way to improve power. To justify this answer lets first look at what is power. Power is similar to strength except you are adding the time factor. Therefore the relation of strength and speed is what we are talking about when we talk about power. A person who can perform a specific resistance movement, such as jumping, bench press etc., the fastest would be said to have more power in that movement. So what we are looking at is not just the contraction of the muscle, but how fast will it contract. It has been shown that a muscle will contract the fastest when it has been loaded. This is why you should be able to jump higher if you crouch down then immediately jump up than if you started in the crouch. So if this is the best way to perform a powerful movement lets practice these movements. This practic e is called plyometrics and has been shown in study after study to decrease the time it takes for the muscles to contract, resulting in more power.

 

What are good plyometric exercises for increasing vertical jump?

 

A: There are an infinite number of plyometric exercises to increase vertical leap but here are a few good ones:

Two foot ankle hop (low intensity)

keeping your feet together and remaining in one place hop up and down using only your ankles and calves. Concentrate on getting as high as you can and exploding off the ground as soon as you land.

Rim Jumps (medium intensity)

Stand under a basketball rim. Jump up touching the rim (or net or whatever) with alternate hands. Concentrate on getting as high as you can and exploding off the ground as soon as you land.

Box to Box jumps (high intensity)

Place two boxes that will support your weight about 3 feet apart. Standing on one box step (NOT JUMP) off to the ground and immediately jump back up to the other box. Turn around and repeat. Obviously the difficulty of this exercise is increased as the height of the boxes are increased. Once again concentrate on getting as high as you can and exploding off the ground as soon as you land (notice a pat tern here?)

 

In all the above exercises you are using your body weight and gravity to load the muscle before contraction. The forces you generate are much larger than could be safely accomplished using conventional resistance (read weights) exercises. It is true these forces only exist for a brief amount of time, but they still stress the muscle which is the point.

 

Plyometric is not bad, it just depends on the intensity the person should do. you will surely incur injuries if you do high impact plyometrics if you are still in the beginners stage.

 

 

I simply don't have time for this right now What you are suggesting is in complete contrast as the principles taught by Dr. Mel Siff, a specialist in exercise physiology. Read Supertraining and Facts and Fallacies of Fitness, written by him. These books are in the library of basically every serious strength coach, both pro and amateur, around the world. What you are suggesting is the EXACT opposite of what is practiced by basically all of these coaches, gold medalist athletes, and professional athletes of the NBA, NFL, as well as the amateur NCAA. I've personally coached 1000's of individuals over the years as well as 16 years of my own training. Two of my athletes are International Class, meaning top 10 in their weight class. In all of what I've said, I've never witnessed athletes passing out or getting hernias from holding their breath. I HAVE seen, however, big guys who were picking up a 70lbs child rupture a vertebrae because they were laughing (and obviously exhaling) while picking up said child. This same individual could squat 500lbs on any given day. Try this some time....squat with a 45lb bar on your back with breath held until the final portion of the completion of the rep. Then do it with empty lungs. You tell me which makes you feel more stable. The lungs and abs work together to stabilize your back, again, said over and over again by Dr. Siff. As a medical professional and a non-athlete with minimal athletic experience, I'd hope you understand when I say that the burden of proof is on you to produce a peer-reviewed research journal on why IAP/Valsalva is angerous.

 

 

hahaha, EG, you are a funny person. you said that you don't have time but still you answer my question.

if you read my post, i told that you can post the link so that i can read it and change my perception. i don't want to go to a library just to waste my time reading this, the net is all that i need which is much faster. i hope you can post the link of Dr. Siff that the lungs and abs work together to stabilize the back. i have not read in any anatomy books that the lungs and abs can work together side by side to stabilize the back.

 

 

Also, the proper use of the belt is to increase IAP and therefore increase core response strength and further protect the spinal column. This increase in IAP is the same reason that wearing a belt will often give a 20-30lbs gain in strength. My female athlete can max at 355lbs while wearing a belt with the thick part at her stomach. Raw will allow her to lift 335lbs. My top male athlete maxes at 575lbs with a belt as worn by the lady athlete. Without belt he can do 545lbs. Their weight class is 48kg and 75kgs respectively. Again, the belt worn properly is for increased IAP. The problem with your argument, DJ25, is you are correlating a CHRONIC condition with an ACUTE action such as short-term holding of the breath. We are talking about normal and healthy individuals here who have been cleared by a physician...not people who require the help of a therapist.

 

What do you mean IAP?

i also can't imagine myself wearing a belt and it could increase my strength. how does a belt increase somebody's strength.

i think this is more on the psychological part. this is like lifting something heavy but when you have a spotter you feel that you can lift it.

 

do you know the meaning of acute and chronic. having a hernia is not developed overnight, it is a long process and takes time. if somebody holds his breath over and over again, this would result to a hernia for a period of time. unless that person is just lifting for some months and would stop and then would lift again. do you see my point.

 

my argument here, some of the people posting in this thread is seeking advice for some medical related problems and concerns but still they want to have a model body. it is nonsense to say that this thread is for normal and healthy individuals. you should broaded you market with fitness. if you only cater for the normal individuals, you neglected some individuals who have medical condition but still wants to be fit. remember that FITNESS IS FOR ALL.

i don't want to argue with you when it comes to strenght training because this is your specialization. however, if i saw wrong advice for a medical condition, i will not just sit here and read. i want to correct that error. just what like you do if you see some wrong information for strength training.

[Equus]

my take on this... DJ25 ecclipse guy is right regarding the increase in strength when you hold yer breath or when you use the belt... I wish i had the needed tools and terminologies to validate my claim but what i have is personal experience... For example:

 

In rock climbing, we call core strength contact strength... I see climbers who are strong like hell and can do a lot of pull ups but put them in a wall and they can't even do dyno's... One such person is me... I have a s@%t load of upper body strength for my size but I can't do dyno's properly because I cannot constrict my torso to do ample explosive movement. I can do small dynos but not enough...

 

A dyno basically consists of an explosive movement wherein you jump up, completely released from the wall both legs and arms and then reach for the higher hold... just like what sylvester stallone did in cliffhanger... The only way to do this movement is to completely strengthen your core, constrict it to a point when your whole body is moving with a single committed purpose then BOOM!!! Explode upwards with commitment and confidence... holding your breath in to focus your strength and contraction of your core muscles is integral... And believe me DJ25, you will not read this in ANY of the anatomy books... Ive read through a whole lot of them... its not there... this comes with experience and it is not placebo because it is a measureable phenomenon that occurs with real athletes... ask any boxer, rock climber, martial artist, power lifter, track and field, gymnast, etc... any sport that deals with explosive strength...

 

At the level of extreme sports, when your life is hanging on the line by your ability to conserve, maintain and channel your energy correctly and efficiently, these techniques define the line between life and death...

 

In regards to the belt, well personal experience cannot dictate this because i have not gone to the point of maxing out my squats and needing a belt to do the extra push... im not there yet... but having an apparatus or tool that will stabilize your back for you and keep your core in a state wherein it is easier for you to contract it thus you're able to spend more energy in the actual lift, well, that sort of makes sense to me... again, experience is the teacher here so I am not an expert... just an opinion...

 

And yes... not everyone here is normal... however i do remember that if you're called an anomaly, people here think that you are calling them abnormal.. hehehehehehe... just kidding... In any case, EG did say that he does cater to individuals who have been given a CLEAR BILL OF HEALTH BY THE DOCTORS... it is the responsibility of the INDIVIDUAL to give his of her trainer a full, accurate anamnesis so that the trainer can tailor the program correctly... It IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE TRAINER to play guessing games with his clients if the client does not want to give him any info about an underlying disease or condition...

Edited August 14, 2006 by Equus

[BEaST-RiPPed]

sheesh! wla ako ma-say...

its like the battle of brains against the brainless...

team eclipse vs. the odds

the odds being:

1) a miseducated 20yr old skinny kid who exposes his guitar like abdominal muscles (if they existed) and shares his exercise regimen & etc. ala doogie howser writing a journal of his routine...

 

2) a therapist (uh really or is it "the rapist"?) who shares his "intelligent" views against a more researched statement in strength training. you got class, dude..GERONIMO!

 

3) THE OTHERS - those who do not know the right training for themselves and easily believes the advice of self proclaimed masters of bodybuilding...(guys, i've been there, i've done that. now i'm happy to belong in a good gym who will take care of me)

 

 

if EG & OLY can only quote this..."Sorry, your time's run out! What do we have for the losers, judge? Thank you for playing Should we or should we not follow the advice of the galactically stupid!"

 

 

:cool:

[lomex32]

Workout ....

 

It really depends also sa metabolism of any person

 

Some do not need to work out at all

[dj25]

my take on this... DJ25 ecclipse guy is right regarding the increase in strength when you hold yer breath or when you use the belt... I wish i had the needed tools and terminologies to validate my claim but what i have is personal experience... For example: In rock climbing, we call core strength contact strength... I see climbers who are strong like hell and can do a lot of pull ups but put them in a wall and they can't even do dyno's... One such person is me... I have a s@%t load of upper body strength for my size but I can't do dyno's properly because I cannot constrict my torso to do ample explosive movement. I can do small dynos but not enough... A dyno basically consists of an explosive movement wherein you jump up, completely released from the wall both legs and arms and then reach for the higher hold... just like what sylvester stallone did in cliffhanger... The only way to do this movement is to completely strengthen your core, constrict it to a point when your whole body is moving with a single committed purpose then BOOM!!! Explode upwards with commitment and confidence... holding your breath in to focus your strength and contraction of your core muscles is integral... And believe me DJ25, you will not read this in ANY of the anatomy books... Ive read through a whole lot of them... its not there... this comes with experience and it is not placebo because it is a measureable phenomenon that occurs with real athletes... ask any boxer, rock climber, martial artist, power lifter, track and field, gymnast, etc... any sport that deals with explosive strength...

 

equus, i don't know if you're in the same channel. first of all the topic was is valsalva maneuver can cause hernia and not increase strength. i believe that when you hold your breath it can increase your strength because you channel your energy more. this is like the adrenaline rush. however, since the topic posted was hernia. i definite disagree to hold your breath since it can lead to it. during training, some tends to hold their breath a lot especially when they are lifting heavy. this is not just on incident but it always occurs. try to count on yourself to hold your breath if you are lifting heavy and continue this for a long time. let's just see what will be the effect. i saw this in rotten.com where a weighlifter squat tremendous amount of weight and performed valsalva maneuver and then his intestines literally got out of his anus. if you have watched ripley's, there is also an episode there where a man pop his eyes out due to valsalva maneuver.

 

with regards to the belt, i could not imagine increasing my strength just wearing a belt. that's why i call it on the psyche part of a person since his much more confident in lifting heavy weights since he feels that he is secure in wearing a belt.

 

 

sheesh! wla ako ma-say...

its like the battle of brains against the brainless...

team eclipse vs. the odds

the odds being:

1) a miseducated 20yr old skinny kid who exposes his guitar like abdominal muscles (if they existed) and shares his exercise regimen & etc. ala doogie howser writing a journal of his routine...

 

2) a therapist (uh really or is it "the rapist"?) who shares his "intelligent" views against a more researched statement in strength training. you got class, dude..GERONIMO!

 

3) THE OTHERS - those who do not know the right training for themselves and easily believes the advice of self proclaimed masters of bodybuilding...(guys, i've been there, i've done that. now i'm happy to belong in a good gym who will take care of me)

if EG & OLY can only quote this..."Sorry, your time's run out! What do we have for the losers, judge? Thank you for playing Should we or should we not follow the advice of the galactically stupid!"

:cool:

 

 

believe me worshipme, i've a licensed PT. in a thread like this, we should always read both sides of contradicting statements for us not to be manipulated or monopolize by a single person. an intelligent reader should know how to balance all the things that he/she is reading.