Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[rooster69ph]

FACT: Naging "sick man of asia" ang Pilipinas sa pamumuno ni Marcos

 

 

 

The Philippine economy has experienced repeated boom-and-bust cycles in the 5 decades since the nation achieved independence from the United States in 1946. In the 1950s and early 1960s its economy ranked as the second most progressive in Asia, next to that of Japan. After 1965, when Ferdinand E. Marcos became president, the nation experienced economic problems and social unrest, especially from the 1970s, when corruption and cronyism (the practice of appointing friends to well-paid posts regardless of their qualifications) took hold. In 1972, Marcos declared a state of emergency and placed the country under martial law to stifle unrest and control economic development. By his third term in

1981, democratic institutions in the country had severely eroded, foreign debt ballooned, and the country's economy plummeted. In less than 20 years, the Philippines had gone from relative prosperity to becoming the "sick man of Asia."

Read more: http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Asia-and-the-Pacific/Philippines-OVERVIEW-OF-ECONOMY.html#ixzz3rhgejKlq

 

 

[haroots2]

cronyism (the practice of appointing friends to well-paid posts regardless of their qualifications)

 

Bakit ngayon hindi na cronyism ang tawag pero friends pa rin ni Pnoy ang inaappoint and hindi rin qualified.

 

Para hindi OT.

Marcos looks good because by comparison to other presidents before and after him are under achievers. But that doesn't mean he is a great leader. In comparison to other world leaders, barya lang siya,

[filibustero]

Myth because blind loyalist failed to face the fact that marcos never built more schools that all his successors combined...kung blackjack ito buta na bumubunot pa eh kaya yun segway.

 

Back to basics tayo...Granted inutil si PNoy compared to PGMA and all the presidents we have, yun 86 thousand classrooms built from 2010 to 2014 which i quoted from a news report a few post back is still more than the 17,000 Marcos built in what? 20 years? Magiging fact ba yun sinasabi na si marcos ang may pinakamaraming napagawang classrooms sa lahat ng sumunod sa kanya combined?

 

Indeed...Numbers don't lie

Still sticking to the 17,000 in 20 years? Here's an excerpt from Marcos' 1970 SONA:

 

In education, we have confronted the short-run and immediate problems forthrightly and successfully. We had a total of 49,000 elementary school classes added to the public schools system from 1966 to 1969; we produced 90,986 classrooms. This compares favorably with the 800 classrooms produced or constructed from 1962 to 1965, when the total number of new classes was 48,000. Thus, we have favorably solved the problem of accommodation in the schools, which was a principal cause of poor instruction and of a high dropout rate.

 

That's basically what FM [claims to have] accomplished during his first term alone (1965-1969). Like I cited in my previous post, Marcos already [claims to have] built 17,000 classrooms in 1967, two years into his first term. Compare this to the 57,488 classrooms GMA built during her second term (2004-2009). Note also the 40 year gap, which means we should also factor in population - which is considerably lower during Marcos' time. Meaning, he built more classrooms during his time than GMA did in hers, when the population of the Philippines was significantly lower. This is important when you speak of targetting an ideal clasroom-student ratio (the government targets 50 students per classroom, but private schools peg it at 35 I think).

 

Same goes with the 86,000 classrooms you said PNoy built from 2010-2014. Here's a summary of the data posted by the forum members here:

 

Marcos (1966-1969)[3 years]: 90,000

GMA (2004-2009)[5 years]: 57,000

PNoy (2010-2014)[4 years]: 86,000

 

Indeed, numbers don't lie.

Edited November 17, 2015 by filibustero

[rooster69ph]

 

Its speculative na kung di naging presidente si Marcos hindi tayo magkakaroon ng magagandang infrastructure? Wrong! That is a fact! Kasi si Diosdado Macapagal sa buong term nya 500 classrooms lang napagawa si Marcos, a whopping 17,000! Pagsama-samahin mo man presidente mula kay Cory at Ngoyngoy hindi pa din yan matatapatan. So Anong speculative dito?

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am sticking to the numbers because this was the argument presented ...

 

SO therefore as I said, the burden of proof is on the one who claimed that he built more classrooms than all of the presidents that came after combined.

[rooster69ph]

 

Note also the 40 year gap, which means we should also factor in population - which is considerably lower during Marcos' time. Meaning, he built more classrooms during his time than GMA did in hers, when the population of the Philippines was significantly lower. This is important when you speak of targetting an ideal clasroom-student ratio (the government targets 50 students per classroom, but private schools peg it at 35 I think).

 

Good point ...

 

We know that the student to classroom ratio currently is not ideal. Out of my personal curiosity ... I wonder what is the ratio during Marcos time? How many students are there in a class.

 

Consider also that you factored in other variables, then i guess other factors will also have to be considered just to be fair. For example you mentioned about the "40 year gap". I supposed then it is fair to assume that the classrooms built then would have undergone repairs, both major and minor ones that needs funding. This would obviously eat up on the number of newly built classrooms due to limited funding. Also we may want to consider whether these classrooms are comparable as far as capacity and specs.

 

This is not to start another argument regarding ideal classroom-student ratio but just some things to ponder on in lieu of your comment.

[filibustero]

Good point ...

 

We know that the student to classroom ratio currently is not ideal. Out of my personal curiosity ... I wonder what is the ratio during Marcos time? How many students are there in a class.

 

Consider also that you factored in other variables, then i guess other factors will also have to be considered just to be fair. For example you mentioned about the "40 year gap". I supposed then it is fair to assume that the classrooms built then would have undergone repairs, both major and minor ones that needs funding. This would obviously eat up on the number of newly built classrooms due to limited funding. Also we may want to consider whether these classrooms are comparable as far as capacity and specs.

 

This is not to start another argument regarding ideal classroom-student ratio but just some things to ponder on in lieu of your comment.

I have no idea what the target student-classroom ratio was back then. But let's use the information in the 1970 SONA shall we. Because they used "new class" vis-a-vis classroom. I would suppose a "new class" means a new class of Grade 1 students that should fit in one classroom. How many they are, well you can do some research to satisfy your curiosity. But according to FM, from 1962-1965 only 800 classrooms were produced when the total number of new classes was 48,000. So that's a shortage of 47,200 classrooms. To close that gap plus the additional 49,000 new classes from 1966-1969, FM built almost 91,000 classrooms in the same period. That's actually still 5,000 classrooms short but that's way better than the original 47,200 shortage. Now if we assume that the predecessor of his predecessor did not have a classroom backlog, that would mean FM need only build more classrooms proportionate to the increase in student population every year. Around 14,000 classrooms per year if you average out the new classes from 1962-1969. And to think GMA only targeted 6,000 classrooms per year. So it shouldn't be a surprise that PNoy is in a mad rush to build tens of thousands of classrooms just to close the gap the way FM did. Oh, and Diosdado Macapagal was the predecessor of FM so I guess not prioritizing classrooms is a Macapagal thing.

 

As to the matter of subsequent repair of classrooms that could eat up funding for new classrooms, well I would suggest that you look into the 86,000 PNoy figures that you cited. Because we are sure that the 90,000+ classrooms FM built were all new and followed a distinct "Marcos" design. Which means it must be shown that the 86,000 did not include repaired Marcos classrooms and are all brand new PNoy rooms. As to comparability of capacity and specs, well I don't know how we should compare. I graduated from a public elementary school and I know what a Marcos classroom looks like. Can't say the same for how a PNoy classroom looks like though. Not even sure if they still use those wood bench-desks that sit two people at a time and not single arm chairs like the ones we used in my private high school and university.

[rooster69ph]

I have no idea what the target student-classroom ratio was back then. But let's use the information in the 1970 SONA shall we. Because they used "new class" vis-a-vis classroom. I would suppose a "new class" means a new class of Grade 1 students that should fit in one classroom. How many they are, well you can do some research to satisfy your curiosity. But according to FM, from 1962-1965 only 800 classrooms were produced when the total number of new classes was 48,000. So that's a shortage of 47,200 classrooms. To close that gap plus the additional 49,000 new classes from 1966-1969, FM built almost 91,000 classrooms in the same period. That's actually still 5,000 classrooms short but that's way better than the original 47,200 shortage. Now if we assume that the predecessor of his predecessor did not have a classroom backlog, that would mean FM need only build more classrooms proportionate to the increase in student population every year. Around 14,000 classrooms per year if you average out the new classes from 1962-1969. And to think GMA only targeted 6,000 classrooms per year. So it shouldn't be a surprise that PNoy is in a mad rush to build tens of thousands of classrooms just to close the gap the way FM did. Oh, and Diosdado Macapagal was the predecessor of FM so I guess not prioritizing classrooms is a Macapagal thing.

 

As to the matter of subsequent repair of classrooms that could eat up funding for new classrooms, well I would suggest that you look into the 86,000 PNoy figures that you cited. Because we are sure that the 90,000+ classrooms FM built were all new and followed a distinct "Marcos" design. Which means it must be shown that the 86,000 did not include repaired Marcos classrooms and are all brand new PNoy rooms. As to comparability of capacity and specs, well I don't know how we should compare. I graduated from a public elementary school and I know what a Marcos classroom looks like. Can't say the same for how a PNoy classroom looks like though. Not even sure if they still use those wood bench-desks that sit two people at a time and not single arm chairs like the ones we used in my private high school and university.

 

You can google up...deped have a manual on current classroom specs. Not by this admin but by the previous one. I think it was sec lapus time.

 

Anyway, so tell me now does your research proved that marcos built more classrooms than all the presidents that came after him combined as one claimed? Is that a fact or a myth?

Edited November 18, 2015 by rooster69ph

[filibustero]

You can google up...deped have a manual on current classroom specs. Not by this admin but by the previous one. I think it was sec lapus time.

Anyway, so tell me now does your research proved that marcos built more classrooms than all the presidents that came after him combined as one claimed? Is that a fact or a myth?

Since it was you that brought up the classroom quality issue, then maybe you can provide us with your research.

 

And i don't have to prove FM built more classrooms than all of his successors combined because I never made that claim.

[rooster69ph]

Since it was you that brought up the classroom quality issue, then maybe you can provide us with your research.

And i don't have to prove FM built more classrooms than all of his successors combined because I never made that claim.

Thanks but no thanks ... It won't provide any value added anyway to proving my point that the poster's statement that marcos built more classrooms than all succeeding presidents combined is all but a myth.

 

As i said i raise it up not to start an argument but for you to ponder on. I know the difference myself. Seen it. If you're interested then i think i've given you enough leads.

[Eddy Syet]

Thanks but no thanks ... It won't provide any value added anyway to proving my point that the poster's statement that marcos built more classrooms than all succeeding presidents combined is all but a myth.

 

As i said i raise it up not to start an argument but for you to ponder on. I know the difference myself. Seen it. If you're interested then i think i've given you enough leads.

 

Of course, it's a myth!

 

Madali lang naman magsabi na mas maraming naitayong classrooms si Marcos than all the other presidents after him combined. Maski ako kaya ko i-claim yun eh.

[rooster69ph]

Fact: Marcos is winning in the voting for best president on this forum.

Congrats!

 

In fact i would like to make a motion to close the voting so that the result can be final and official in order that loyalist can build him another bust (please a larger one than before) that says "MTC Best President Award" for this achievement

 

At least ALAM NA! na mas may saysay kaysa naman nun una na siya mismo ang nagpagawa for self gratification.

 

Speaking of the Marcos Bust ... Its a FACT that the Ibaloi were displaced from their lands just to construct that.

Edited November 18, 2015 by rooster69ph

[Eddy Syet]

Speaking of the Marcos Bust ... Its a FACT that the Ibaloi were displaced from their lands just to construct that.

 

Makoi muna bago Ibaloi?

 

Baaaaaad cheetah!

Edited November 18, 2015 by Eddy Syet

[rooster69ph]

 

Of course, it's a myth!

 

Madali lang naman magsabi na mas maraming naitayong classrooms si Marcos than all the other presidents after him combined. Maski ako kaya ko i-claim yun eh.

Kaya nga sabi ko talk is cheap ... numbers won't lie.

 

Actually the claim that Marcos built (when the term used in the quotation is "produced") around 90,000 is debatable based on this source of mine that says 57,100 lang ang naipagawa niya during his first 4 years in office. http://www.gov.ph/1970/01/26/ferdinand-e-marcos-fifth-state-of-the-nation-address-january-26-1970

 

I would suspect that the 90,000 is the total classrooms available at that time which included those built before him (hence the term "produced"). But this is immaterial at this point considering even at 90,000 it is still a myth.

[rooster69ph]

Eto o napakalinaw cut and paste galing sa ipinost niya ..."We had a total of 49,000 elementary school classes added to the public schools system from 1966 to 1969; we produced 90,986 classrooms. "

 

Two things here in this statement ...

 

First, 49,000 were added from 1966 to 1969.

 

Secondly, they were able to produced 90,986 classrooms

 

But it was interpreted by the poster as 90,000 were built from 1966 to 1969. Thus to claim 90,000 built during his first 4 years is also a myth.

[filibustero]

Eto o napakalinaw cut and paste galing sa ipinost niya ..."We had a total of 49,000 elementary school classes added to the public schools system from 1966 to 1969; we produced 90,986 classrooms. "

Two things here in this statement ...

First, 49,000 were added from 1966 to 1969.

Secondly, they were able to produced 90,986 classrooms

But it was interpreted by the poster as 90,000 were built from 1966 to 1969. Thus to claim 90,000 built during his first 4 years is also a myth.

You should quote the entire excerpt. If you read it carefully, you'll know that "classroom" is different from "classes". You produce classrooms to accommodate classes. If you read the entire exceprt, you'll also notice he was comparing the number of classrooms "produced or constructed" from 1962-1965, which was 800, to accommodate 48,000 "new classes" for the same period. So.. Marcos produced or constructed 90,000 classrooms from 1966-1969 to accommodate the 49,000 new classes during that period, plus the 47,200 backlog from Macapagal's period, hence making the claim at the end of the exceprt that they have addressed that problem.

 

But we can debate this forever, of course. Everything about Marcos is subjected to debate. We may have different opinions whether he is the best or worst President, but I would say he is certainly the most interesting.