South China/West Philippine Sea

[red60]

In fairness to Camiar. He was always preaching about "quiet resolve" on how to handle the Spratly's situation and what he said was to make us see that a small force can cause trouble even to a much larger army.

 

But you are also right, while we may win some skirmishes, the overall war (if it happens) will leave us devastated (if the nation survives, that is).

 

well we can't consider suggesting direct military conflict even at micro scale as a "quiet resolve". A small force can possibly be a nuisance to the Chinese army but it will also risk an all-out war.

[dakota]

In fairness to Camiar. He was always preaching about "quiet resolve" on how to handle the Spratly's situation and what he said was to make us see that a small force can cause trouble even to a much larger army.

 

But you are also right, while we may win some skirmishes, the overall war (if it happens) will leave us devastated (if the nation survives, that is).

 

 

And we will have another "non working holiday" in our calendar to be known as the "Fall of the Spratlys" day.

[I am Vengeance]

BRP Gregorio Del Pilar (PF-15) began it's sail, 3 weeks from now darating na ito sa Pinas. Sa Palawan daw ito ide-destino agad, dun malapit sa Spratly's.

 

http://i52.tinypic.com/2utouih.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/6gzdea.jpg

 

 

ganun pala ang itsura ng BRP G.del Pilar... thanks for the info Mr. Kareem .. wishful thinking nga talaga.. libre nman ang mangarap eh.. peace sa lahat ng mga GM d2..

[jopoc]

why dont we leave the decision (to fight) and (war) strategy to our military? they know better than us.

 

 

lets support our military rather than be pessimistic.

kung takot kang lumaban, suportahan mo na lang mga kababayan mo.

 

 

ang problema kasi ng iba sa atin, pakitaan lang ng malakas na armas, umiihi na sa pantalon.

[wolflove_bigdawg]

imho, the only way to defeat the chinese force is with the cooperation of the US and with guerilla warfare. just my two cents. hopefully, US would be true to its words.

[jopoc]

dont worry, the US will be fighting with us. they dont want to get embarassed by not following a treaty. the US will bring ALL of its resources in the PH for us, including its K-9 units (all kasi ) to fight.

 

in that way, all we have to do is sit back, relax and watch the US fight our war.

Edited July 20, 2011 by jopoc

[lomex32]

Lets include the U.S. and ALL of her allies

 

... word of the century

All

 

dont worry, the US will be fighting with us. they dont want to get embarassed by not following a treaty. the US will bring ALL of its resources in the PH for us, including its K-9 units (all kasi ) to fight.

 

in that way, all we have to do is sit back, relax and watch the US fight our war.

[camiar]

Camiar, your conclusion that we can stand up to China based on the Korean war and Falklands war proves your superficial and inadequate knowledge on the subject matter.

 

During the Korean War, the Philippines was regarded was one of the most progressive and economically stable country in Asia. This is main reason why we sent soldiers in an external conflict. Obviously this is a far cry from our present state. I agree that Filipinos have shown valor and proficiency in combat when we engaged the massive but poorly trained Chinese but we also had great support coming from the US, British, Canadian, and Turkish forces that covered land, sea and air. Based on the facts stated, the Korean War is a poor reflection of our current scenario where we are falling at the bottom in Asia. It's quite possible that we can win a few skirmishes but we'll be vulnerable without US air and sea support.

 

Falklands War? Seriously? have you tried reading about it before making it an inference on the subject matter?? Falklands War is the PERFECT reason why we should NEVER engage China in military conflict. Argentina, lost a cruiser, a submarine, 649 killed, 1068 wounded, 11,313 captured, and 75 fixed-wing aircraft. On the other hand, the British lost, 2 destroyers, 2 frigates, 258 killed, 777 wounded. More importantly, Argentina SURRENDERED after 74 days. Argentina may have won a skirmish but it had lost the war. I disagree to you statement that the Argentinians did "fairly well". It was a disaster. Furthermore, the defeat in the Falklands War became the catalyst for the collapse of Argentinian government, overthrow of the dictator, and years of civil unrest. Argentina has more firepower than the Philippines and the British sent a smaller force compared to the Chinese forces currently patrolling the area. Is this how you envision the future of our country? Massive casualty, anarchy, and destruction of Filipino way of life because we chose to engage in a military conflict that we can never really win.

 

Camiar, your blind patriotism and reckless bravery is admirable but in order to survive you need to see the bigger picture. I'm not saying we sit idle and watch the Chinese takeover the Islands but we should seek other non-militaristic ways of securing the islands. I'm willing to bet that you'll be shaking, peeing and pooping your pants holding to your 50-year old M1-Garand rifle waiting for your impending death should a full military conflict arise.

Artvader got the point. You and inverbrass didn't. You admire my "blind patriotism" and "reckless bravery"? If I was talking about blind patriotism and reckless bravery, then you really didn't understand what I was talking about.

 

The problem is that you are too pre-occupied with numbers. How inadequate you are. I don't share your pessimism.

 

I acknowlege how overwhelming the odds are against us. I support all diplomatic ways of resolving the territorial dispute. I also support upgrading our capability to defend our territory. And I know enough about defense strategies to say that we don't have to match the Chinese military might one-on-one to keep them at bay.

 

But all you talk about is the futility of standing up to the Chinese. So are you saying that it is no longer our duty to stand up to our country's aggressor, because, afterall, resistance is futile? Are you a "realist" like inverbrass?

Edited July 21, 2011 by camiar

[jopoc]

Lets include the U.S. and ALL of her allies

 

... word of the century

All

 

 

 

just dont take the word "all" literally...

[wolflove_bigdawg]

buti na lang daming friends ng pinas. hehe

[red60]

Artvader got the point. You and inverbrass didn't. You admire my "blind patriotism" and "reckless bravery"? If I was talking about blind patriotism and reckless bravery, then you really didn't understand what I was talking about.

 

The problem is that you are too pre-occupied with numbers. How inadequate you are. I don't share your pessimism.

 

I acknowlege how overwhelming the odds are against us. I support all diplomatic ways of resolving the territorial dispute. I also support upgrading our capability to defend our territory. And I know enough about defense strategies to say that we don't have to match the Chinese military might one-on-one to keep them at bay.

 

But all you talk about is the futility of standing up to the Chinese. So are you saying that it is no longer our duty to stand up to our country's aggressor, because, afterall, resistance is futile? Are you a "realist" like inverbrass?

 

 

Artvader got the point. You and inverbrass didn't. You admire my "blind patriotism" and "reckless bravery"? If I was talking about blind patriotism and reckless bravery, then you really didn't understand what I was talking about.

 

Artvader may have understood your point but it doesn't make it correct, sensible or ingenious.

When US pushed back the Japanese in WWII, the Japanese became desperate and started using "Kamikaze" tactics against the US. I believe it was admirable, patriotic and brave but was it wise? The Americans knew the Japanese were fanatical and will not easily surrender thus the decision of dropping two Atomic bombs . Philippines standing up to China through military conflict, is it admirable? Yes. Is it patriotic? Yes. Is it brave? Yes. Is it prudent? No. I perfectly understood what you were pointing out and we will probably end up like Argentina after the Falklands War or worse Japan after WWII if we follow your way of thinking.

 

The problem is that you are too pre-occupied with numbers. How inadequate you are. I don't share your pessimism.

 

Pessimism? Our situation is dire but I never said it was hopeless. I merely lay down the facts and concluded that we cannot engage the Chinese in any combat situation. My comments were supported by facts and NUMBERS. Unlike your comments which were lamely supported by snippets from the Korean war and Falklands war. Saying how the Argentinians "did fairly well" after sinking 2 British destroyers but failing to recognize Argentina's total defeat, collapse of the military government, years of chaos and civil unrest, proves your very narrow perspective and inadequate knowledge on the subject matter.

I'm not pessimistic. I am being realistic. I am not deluded in thinking that after we win a few skirmishes, the Chinese will simply turn their backs and leave us alone.

 

I acknowlege how overwhelming the odds are against us. I support all diplomatic ways of resolving the territorial dispute. I also support upgrading our capability to defend our territory. And I know enough about defense strategies to say that we don't have to match the Chinese military might one-on-one to keep them at bay.

 

We have an interesting development folks! Camiar who persistently defended that we can win against the Chinese thru well-planned strikes and brilliant hit-and-run tactics, has finally conceded that we cannot match the Chinese military might one-on-one. What the hell happened? I guess all those talk about the Korean War and Falklands War got flushed in the toilet. Perhaps it was the image of him shitting in his pants while carrying antique M1-Garand rifle.

Camiar, you are welcome to change your stand and perspective. If you had done this earlier, the long discussion would have been averted.

 

But all you talk about is the futility of standing up to the Chinese. So are you saying that it is no longer our duty to stand up to our country's aggressor, because, afterall, resistance is futile? Are you a "realist" like inverbrass?

 

Stop putting words in my mouth. Again, I never said that we should sit idle and let the Chinese occupy the islands. It is our duty to fight and secure the islands thru non-violent methods. Risking an all-out war by engaging in skirmishes against a foe a thousand times stronger is reckless, blind patriotism, suicidal and stupidity on so many levels.

Edited July 22, 2011 by red60

[camiar]

@red60:

 

So, after your lengthy reply, what is your answer?

 

Will you say that it is no longer your duty to fight to defend our territory because it is futile against the almighty Chinese?

[red60]

@red60:

 

So, after your lengthy reply, what is your answer?

 

Will you say that it is no longer your duty to fight to defend our territory because it is futile against the almighty Chinese?

 

I already answered your question. Read the last paragraph of my previous post.

[camiar]

I already answered your question. Read the last paragraph of my previous post.

That was not a reply. It's just a bunch of motherhood statements.

 

Will you say that it is no longer your duty to fight to defend our territory because it is futile against the almighty Chinese?

[red60]

That was not a reply. It's just a bunch of motherhood statements.

 

Will you say that it is no longer your duty to fight to defend our territory because it is futile against the almighty Chinese?

 

 

I don't know if you're playing stupid or really stupid.. Ito na para hindi ka na mahirapan..

 

I never said that we should sit idle and let the Chinese occupy the islands. It is our duty to fight and secure the islands thru non-violent methods. Risking an all-out war by engaging in skirmishes against a foe a thousand times stronger is reckless, blind patriotism, suicidal and stupidity on so many levels.

 

Camiar, I already refuted and replied to all of your comments point by point, if this question is all you can muster then we are done here.

Edited July 22, 2011 by red60