bods1000 Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 I have a cuple of 97 Noah's zins left in my stash. Yup, they're geting up there in age. Time to drink them up! 7 years for a BIIIIIG zin (15.8%!) is not bad, but I don't want it to start going downhill.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> wow! that's a lot of alcohol...pare, where they tannic to begin with? I mean, did you drink a '97 Noah in '97? Quote Link to comment
agxo3 Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 wow! that's a lot of alcohol...pare, where they tannic to begin with? I mean, did you drink a '97 Noah in '97?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah - the wine sat in tanks (not oak!) for 6 months before bottling, so that was June '98. Then they sat in bottles for another 7 months before release - Jan. '99. I tasted the wine from the tank just after the fermentatin was complete, then again just before bottling, and then again at release before buying. Picked up a case, and am now down to the last couple of bottles. It's developed well over the years. A bit shocking, certainly a big, stand-up-and-slap-you-in-the-face wine early on. Tannic but not overwhelmingly so - still very, very drinkable even at its youngest. It's mellowed a bit. Tannins have backed down, fruit has come forward nicely. That slightly bitter/sweet coffee/chocolate edge at the back of your throat is a nice note to finish on. Great with bittersweet chocolate or a decadent chocolate dessert with raspberries or black cherries. Also good with a roast beast of some sort (beef marinated in Worcestershire sauce+garlic+bay leaf+ginger, maybe a nice pork loin, or maybe a good rack of lamb) or an Italian feast. Another year and the wine will be one the downhill slide, so this is the year to finish it off. And another great wine will be history. No more available ANYWHERE. I know - Noah (Taylor - the winemaker) is a friend and even his stock is all gone. Quote Link to comment
masi Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I've heard about those wine flights....sayang nga walang mga wine bars dito. Ordering for wine flights should prove to be interesting...There used to be a wine bar somewhere in Legaspi Village pero nagsara din ito after about a year or so...<{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is 1 beside the Santis store in Yakal St. Makati. It's probably owned by the same person. Magnum at GB3 is owned by the Trillo's. Wide variety to choose from. Some other bars with a notable wine list, Kiplings at the Mandarin and Churchills at Edsa Shang. Although both are more know to be cigar and whiskey bars. Quote Link to comment
masi Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 About cooking with wine: There's a popular misconception that wine is used in cooking because it dissolves the flavor of the ingredients while cooking - something that can't be done by water alone...so that the dish turns out more magnificent because of all those flavors which were absorbed.This is furthest from the truth. Wine is used because of the unique flavor it can impart to the dish...<{POST_SNAPBACK}> just remember... the wine you use to cook should be a wine that you can drink. If you can't drink it... don't cook with it. Quote Link to comment
bods1000 Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 Nah - the wine sat in tanks (not oak!) for 6 months before bottling, so that was June '98. Then they sat in bottles for another 7 months before release - Jan. '99. I tasted the wine from the tank just after the fermentatin was complete, then again just before bottling, and then again at release before buying. Picked up a case, and am now down to the last couple of bottles. It's developed well over the years. A bit shocking, certainly a big, stand-up-and-slap-you-in-the-face wine early on. Tannic but not overwhelmingly so - still very, very drinkable even at its youngest. It's mellowed a bit. Tannins have backed down, fruit has come forward nicely. That slightly bitter/sweet coffee/chocolate edge at the back of your throat is a nice note to finish on. Great with bittersweet chocolate or a decadent chocolate dessert with raspberries or black cherries. Also good with a roast beast of some sort (beef marinated in Worcestershire sauce+garlic+bay leaf+ginger, maybe a nice pork loin, or maybe a good rack of lamb) or an Italian feast. Another year and the wine will be one the downhill slide, so this is the year to finish it off. And another great wine will be history. No more available ANYWHERE. I know - Noah (Taylor - the winemaker) is a friend and even his stock is all gone.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> how about the later vintages of Noah - '98 onwards? So they're mellowed out in stainless steel tanks? Kaya wala siguro syang trace ng vanilla flavors - winemakers sometimes mature wine to impart that vanilla taste which some wine drinkers love...Ok some bit of wine trivia...there are two kinds of oak used to mature wine - French and American oak. The difference they say is that wine matured in French oak gives off a smoother taste while wine matured in American oak has a rougher edge to it...For the newcomers to wine - ever wondered why some wines are more expensive than others? One factor that jacks up the cost is the oak. The premium wines are matured in NEW oak barrels - and new oak barrels cost a lot of money. The second-tier wines are matured in oak that's been used before for maturing the premium lines of a winery - so they cost less but the flavor imparted by the oak is less intense...Now the really cheapo wines are not matured in oak anymore. Sometimes oak chips are immersed in the fermenting wine to give off some semblance of oak - pero masama na din ang lumalabas na lasa nito Another cost differential is the amount of time involved in oak maturation - of course, longer maturation times in new barrels would lead to more expensive wines.... Quote Link to comment
50fd Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Cabernet sauvignon, merlot, shiraz/syrah, petite sirah, grenache, mourvedre, alicante bouschet, charbono, zinfandel/primitivo, cabernet franc.............all of these are different varieties of grapes. This is not a complete list, BTW. Some are made into wine by themselves, others are blended with outher varietals. For example, a claret is typically a blend of cab. sauv. and merlot, sometimes with some cab. franc thrown in. French and Italian wines are typically labeled by region - Bordeaux, Burgundy, Chianti.......they all use different varietals. For example, a Bordeaux may be a cab. suav., a merlot, a blend of the two, or a blend of the two plus cab franc. Chianti can be a sangiovese, or a merlot, or a blend. They do all taste different, and that's what makes wine tasting so exciting. One thing to note - the only wines that can be called champagne are those made in the Champagne region in France (Reims, Epernay and that area). All others are sparkling wine, but not champagne. That doesn't mean that they're not good, just that they're not champagne. Hope this helps a bit.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> thanks for the reply it does help a bit!! :cool: Quote Link to comment
bods1000 Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 There is 1 beside the Santis store in Yakal St. Makati. It's probably owned by the same person. Magnum at GB3 is owned by the Trillo's. Wide variety to choose from. Some other bars with a notable wine list, Kiplings at the Mandarin and Churchills at Edsa Shang. Although both are more know to be cigar and whiskey bars.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> the one beside Santi's - is that Bianca's? The Trillos have their Anthony's wine store right in front of Santi's, di ba? I didn't know that Magnum is owned by the Trillos - kaya pala puro Anthony's ang wine nila...yeah sa pangalan pa lang ng Churchills mukhang cigar bar na - Churchill was a known cigar afficionado... the one that closed down was Shiraz Wine Bar in Perea St, I think...maganda din yung wine list ng Chateau 1771 sa Malate...my main beef with these restos with wine is that yung house wine nila - the one you can order by the glass - ay yung mga talagang pipitsugin na wine - think Carlo Rossi or Gato Negro. The really good wines in the list go for about 4 to 5 times the grocery price - if you can find them in groceries - and you can't order them by the glass. Quote Link to comment
bods1000 Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 just remember... the wine you use to cook should be a wine that you can drink. If you can't drink it... don't cook with it.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah very true - kung lasang suka na don't use it anymore... Quote Link to comment
agxo3 Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 how about the later vintages of Noah - '98 onwards? So they're mellowed out in stainless steel tanks? Kaya wala siguro syang trace ng vanilla flavors - winemakers sometimes mature wine to impart that vanilla taste which some wine drinkers love...Ok some bit of wine trivia...there are two kinds of oak used to mature wine - French and American oak. The difference they say is that wine matured in French oak gives off a smoother taste while wine matured in American oak has a rougher edge to it...For the newcomers to wine - ever wondered why some wines are more expensive than others? One factor that jacks up the cost is the oak. The premium wines are matured in NEW oak barrels - and new oak barrels cost a lot of money. The second-tier wines are matured in oak that's been used before for maturing the premium lines of a winery - so they cost less but the flavor imparted by the oak is less intense...Now the really cheapo wines are not matured in oak anymore. Sometimes oak chips are immersed in the fermenting wine to give off some semblance of oak - pero masama na din ang lumalabas na lasa nito Another cost differential is the amount of time involved in oak maturation - of course, longer maturation times in new barrels would lead to more expensive wines....<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Later vintages have been tamer. Not as big as the 97. Still tasty, still holding in tanks instead of barrels. I have '98 and 2000 (there were no '99s) still waiting to be opened and consumed. French oak seems to impart less toast, less charcoal and smoother tannins than American oak. American oak seems to be more aggressive, but lots of American winemakers like to use a medium toast American oak barrel to get that vanilla-butter-"caramelly" toast flavor. I, for one, hate that, so I'm a charter member of the ABC (Anything But Chardonnay) club. French oak barrels are $600/each now! For American oak, it's about $400. Quote Link to comment
agxo3 Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 yeah very true - kung lasang suka na don't use it anymore...<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unless you're making adobo! Seriously - if you have wine that's been sitting opened for a few days and you don't like it anymore, don't throw it out! Let it continue its final trnasofrmation and end up as vinegar. Red wine vinegar is great in salad dressings or as part of a marinade for BBQ. White eine vinegar is good in adobo and other dishes that call for a bit of vinegar. Quote Link to comment
bods1000 Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 (edited) Later vintages have been tamer. Not as big as the 97. Still tasty, still holding in tanks instead of barrels. I have '98 and 2000 (there were no '99s) still waiting to be opened and consumed. French oak seems to impart less toast, less charcoal and smoother tannins than American oak. American oak seems to be more aggressive, but lots of American winemakers like to use a medium toast American oak barrel to get that vanilla-butter-"caramelly" toast flavor. I, for one, hate that, so I'm a charter member of the ABC (Anything But Chardonnay) club. French oak barrels are $600/each now! For American oak, it's about $400.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> wow ang mahal na pala talaga ng oak barrels....there's the unwooded chardonnay - not matured in oak - but I still prefer sauvignon blancs and semillons from Western Australia....but then again I have not been that exposed to rieslings...sometimes it's the style the winemaker wants that dictates what oak to use - if he wants a big tannins he uses American; if he wants it to have some finesse, he goes French... Edited November 11, 2004 by bods1000 Quote Link to comment
bods1000 Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 Unless you're making adobo! Seriously - if you have wine that's been sitting opened for a few days and you don't like it anymore, don't throw it out! Let it continue its final trnasofrmation and end up as vinegar. Red wine vinegar is great in salad dressings or as part of a marinade for BBQ. White eine vinegar is good in adobo and other dishes that call for a bit of vinegar.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> nakatikim ako ng red wine vinegar when I happened to be abroad one time and I fell in love with it - masarap when you drizzle it with olive oil over some salad greens...when I went home I brought along some red wine vinegar along with some red wines...I gotta try yung sinabi mong white wine vinegar sa adobo - I may let some of my whites go to "ruin" Quote Link to comment
agxo3 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Just have to rave a bit....... Just finished dinner. Wifey cooked up some ravioli she picked up in Berkeley - procini mushsroom ravioli. Had it with extra virgin oilve oit drizzled over it, and fresh ground parmigianno reggiano cheese. Wow....but I opened up a bottle of...... a J 1997 Nicole's Vineyard pinot noir. Bright cheeries on the nose. Along with some raspberries and a bit of smoke. On the palate - bright red cherries, raspberries, a bit of leather, a hint of black pepper. Wow - now THAT's what pinot noir should be like. Smooth. Restrained tannins. Lots of fruit. A hint of coffee. And no "barnyard". I have a couple more 97's and a couple of 98's. Those are going to get buried deep in the "cellar" and are not going to see th3 lgiht of day for another 3 years! If that was this good now, imagine what it will be like then!! Was a part of their wine club for a couple of years, and they make some damn good pinot noirs. Their sparkling wines are pretty good, too! Quote Link to comment
bods1000 Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Just have to rave a bit....... Just finished dinner. Wifey cooked up some ravioli she picked up in Berkeley - procini mushsroom ravioli. Had it with extra virgin oilve oit drizzled over it, and fresh ground parmigianno reggiano cheese. Wow....but I opened up a bottle of......a J 1997 Nicole's Vineyard pinot noir. Bright cheeries on the nose. Along with some raspberries and a bit of smoke. On the palate - bright red cherries, raspberries, a bit of leather, a hint of black pepper. Wow - now THAT's what pinot noir should be like. Smooth. Restrained tannins. Lots of fruit. A hint of coffee. And no "barnyard". I have a couple more 97's and a couple of 98's. Those are going to get buried deep in the "cellar" and are not going to see th3 lgiht of day for another 3 years! If that was this good now, imagine what it will be like then!! Was a part of their wine club for a couple of years, and they make some damn good pinot noirs. Their sparkling wines are pretty good, too!<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now I have to rant here because we don't get those wines you're having there Ang dami din talagang mga wines na kung tutuusin mo mga obscure pero champion ang dating....there's not a lot of pinot noirs here, btw... Quote Link to comment
agxo3 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Now I have to rant here because we don't get those wines you're having there Ang dami din talagang mga wines na kung tutuusin mo mga obscure pero champion ang dating....there's not a lot of pinot noirs here, btw...<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess I really got to work on that, huh? This week will be better, I hope, and the game of phone tag will end. California has over 2,000 wineries! Most of them only sell wines at the winery or tasting room, or via phone/Internet. On rare occassions, you will find them at a local liquor store or small grocery. Only the big guys (50,000+ cases a year) are distributed state-wide, and beyond. What I've found is that the small wineries have a higher percentage of goooooood wines, compared to the big guys. Cost is not always indicative of quality, but as the cost goes up the chances that the wine is good also go up. As a percentage, there are more good wines over $20 than in the $10-20 range, and yet more than in the sub-$10 range. That J Nicole's Vineyard pinot noir sells for $35/btl at full retail. I did hear that Ravenswood (a Sonoma county winery famous for its zins) is now selling a Shiraz from Australia for $10/btl. That means that at the discount stores it will go for less. If you can find this wine there, I would say it's worth a try. Ravenswood is a good winery. Quote Link to comment
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