Mixed Martial Arts

[bokybokx]

Lidell as great as he is, is getting older by the minute.. I guess the Hall of Famer could at least ponder on retirement... Maybe a last fight is perfect... Lidell vs. Jackson REMATCH... I guess that win was a fluke....

[the_joker]

Sherdog's Official Mixed Martial Arts Rankings

 

HEAVYWEIGHT (265-205)

1. Fedor Emelianenko (Pictures) (26-1-0, 1 NC)

2. Randy Couture (Pictures) (16-8-0)

3. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (Pictures) (30-4-1, 1 NC)

4. Josh Barnett (Pictures) (20-5-0)

5. Gabriel Gonzaga (Pictures) (8-2-0)

6. Tim Sylvia (Pictures) (23-3-0)

7. Andrei Arlovski (Pictures) (11-5-0)8. Fabricio Werdum (Pictures) (9-3-1)

9. Cheick Kongo (Pictures) (11-3-1)

10. Mirko Filipovic (Pictures) (22-6-2)

 

LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT (205-185)

1. Quinton Jackson (Pictures) (28-6-0)

2. Dan Henderson (Pictures) (22-6-0)

3. Wanderlei Silva (Pictures) (31-7-1, 1 NC)

4. Keith Jardine (Pictures) (13-3-1)

5. Forrest Griffin (Pictures) (15-4-0)

6. Mauricio Rua (Pictures) (16-3-0)

7. Chuck Liddell (Pictures) (20-5)

8. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou (Pictures) (4-1-0)

9. Ricardo Arona (Pictures) (13-5-0)

10. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (Pictures) (12-3-0)

 

MIDDLEWEIGHT (185-170)

1. Anderson Silva (19-4-0)

2. Paulo Filho (Pictures) (15-0-0)

3. Dan Henderson (Pictures) (22-6-0)

4. Rich Franklin (Pictures) (22-2-0, 1 NC)

5. Matt Lindland (Pictures) (20-5-0)

6. Nathan Marquardt (Pictures) (25-7-2)

7. Denis Kang (Pictures) (27-8-1, 1 NC)

8. Robbie Lawler (Pictures) (15-4-0)

9. Yushin Okami (Pictures) (20-4-0)

10. Frank Trigg (Pictures) (15-6-0)

 

WELTERWEIGHT (170-155)

1. Matt Serra (Pictures) (9-4-0)

2. Georges St. Pierre (Pictures) (14-2-0)

3. Matt Hughes (Pictures) (41-5-0)

4. Jon Fitch (Pictures) (15-2-0, 1 NC)

5. Josh Koscheck (Pictures) (9-2-0)

6. Diego Sanchez (Pictures) (17-2-0)

7. Karo Parisyan (Pictures) (17-4-0)

8. Shinya Aoki (Pictures) (11-2-0)

9. Jake Shields (Pictures) (19-4-1)

10. Carlos Condit (Pictures) (21-4-0)

 

LIGHTWEIGHT (155-145)

1. Takanori Gomi (Pictures) (27-3-0, 1 ND)

2. Gilbert Melendez (Pictures) (12-0-0)

3. Gesias Calvancanti (Pictures) (14-1-1)

4. Tatsuya Kawajiri (Pictures) (19-4-2)

5. Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro (Pictures) (19-2-0)

6. Sean Sherk (Pictures) (32-2-1)

7. Mitsuhiro Ishida (Pictures) (15-3-1)

8. Joachim Hansen (Pictures) (15-5-1)

9. B.J. Penn (Pictures) (11-4-1)

10. Joe Stevenson (28-7-0)

[JediMasterTebs]

Lidell as great as he is, is getting older by the minute.. I guess the Hall of Famer could at least ponder on retirement... Maybe a last fight is perfect... Lidell vs. Jackson REMATCH... I guess that win was a fluke....

I dont think that Jackson's win was a fluke, winning against a guy twice in a row isnt a fluke it means you've done something good in your game plan..

[hardtohandle]

I dont think that Jackson's win was a fluke, winning against a guy twice in a row isnt a fluke it means you've done something good in your game plan..

 

 

I think it was prematurely stopped by Big John... he could have let it go, because Liddell was the champ then... Well, safety of the fighters ang concern daw dun. But it could have gone either way...

[SevenZeroFive]

I think it was prematurely stopped by Big John... he could have let it go, because Liddell was the champ then... Well, safety of the fighters ang concern daw dun. But it could have gone either way...

^ for me it was a split second thing.. when Chuck got knocked down and when Quinton landed that first strike when he was down Chuck went limp, & i think that's when Big John stepped in.. when Quinton landed the 2nd strike that's when Chuck woke up & started struggling for position, but Big John was already in the process of stopping the fight.. it's the same scenario when Sakuraba defeated Ken Shamrock @ PRIDE 30, Shamrock got flash KO'd & when he was able to regain his bearings the fight has already been stopped..

 

the fact that Chuck was the defending champ shouldn't have any bearing on the decisions whatsoever. it's like showing the world that they're being biased because Chuck's their "poster boy", their marketing & PR mule. that would mean a collective sigh of relief for Generation TUF (because their demigod was saved from obvious defeat) & a reason for the diehard MMA fans to riot and crucify Dana White.

 

and, the Jackson win for me wasn't a fluke by any means. a fluke would be Scott Smith KO'ing Pete Sell when Smith was already as good as beaten with a body shot from Sell (amazing fight, BTW. look for that fight & DL it, it is that amazing.), or Mark Coleman beating Shogun (it's fact, but it's also an absolute fluke). the sequence wherein Quinton dropped Chuck is classic boxing at its best, deflecting any impact of that body shot by Chuck by weaving towards the punch while setting up for the right hook which would seem to come from absolutely nowhere but the timing was perfect.

[SevenZeroFive]

teka lang ha, some miscellaneous ramblings muna from what i've read around the net...

 

UFC 76 Fighter Salaries

-Chuck Liddell: $500,000 (19th fight in UFC; lost to Keith Jardine; win bonus would have been $0)

-Keith Jardine: $14,000 (7th fight in UFC; defeated Chuck Liddell; includes win bonus of $7,000)

-Mauricio Rua: $150,000 (1st fight in UFC; lost to Forrest Griffin; win bonus would have been $50,000)

-Lyoto Machida: $50,000 (3rd fight in UFC; defeated Kazuhiro Nakamura; includes win bonus of $25,000)

-Forrest Griffin: $44,000 (8th fight in UFC; defeated Mauricio Rua; includes win bonus of $22,000)

-Jon Fitch: $44,000 (7th fight in UFC; defeated Diego Sanchez; includes win bonus of $22,000)

-Tyson Griffin: $24,000 (4th fight in UFC; defeated Thiago Tavares; includes win bonus of $12,000)

-Diego Sanchez: $22,000 (8th fight in UFC; lost to Jon Fitch; win bonus would have been $22,000)

-Kazuhiro Nakamura: $20,000 (1st fight in UFC; lost to Lyoto Machida; win bonus would have been $6,000)

-Thiago Tavares: $9,000 (3rd fight in UFC; lost to Tyson Griffin; win bonus would have been $9,000)

-Rich Clementi: $24,000 (5th fight in UFC; defeated Anthony Johnson; includes win bonus of $12,000)

-Matt Wiman: $16,000 (3rd fight in UFC; defeated Michihiro Omigawa; includes win bonus of $8,000)

-Christian Wellisch: $14,000 (3rd fight in UFC; defeated Scott Junk; includes win bonus of $7,000)

-Jeremy Stephens: $6,000 (2nd fight in UFC; defeated Diego Saraiva; includes win bonus of $3,000)

-Michihiro Omigawa: $5,000 (1st fight in UFC; lost to Matt Wiman; win bonus would have been $5,000)

-Anthony Johnson: $5,000 (2nd fight in UFC; lost to Rich Clementi; win bonus would have been $5,000)

-Scott Junk: $4,000 (1st fight in UFC; lost to Christian Wellisch; win bonus would have been $4,000)

-Diego Saraiva: $3,000 (3rd fight in UFC; lost to Jeremy Stephens; win bonus would have been $3,000)

 

^ wtf?! Machida got paid more than Jardine.. & Chuck's pay was like equal to the whole f'ing undercard!

 

from Yahoo! Sports:

SETTLE IT IN THE OCTAGON

 

We need not debate whether Pride is superior to UFC. We just simply let the fights show it. Let Jackson/Liddell, Rua/Griffin, Machida/Nakamura, Gonzaga/Cro Cop, and other UFC vs. Pride fights show it. And I will no longer be surprised if Randy Couture dominates Fedor Emelianenko once he comes to the UFC.

 

Tayshaun

Philippines

^ the whole PRIDE vs. UFC debate for me wasn't just about the rosters. it was the entire package. PRIDE had more flair and was more out there when it came to presentation, & the UFC kinda settled into the non-use of the stage after UFC 40 (Shamrock-Ortiz 1). PRIDE was at an advantage when it came to promotion because they were already being covered by the mainstream media in Japan, whereas for the UFC they had to settle for their own website & the same internet sites that Dana White now hates. that was the only point of contention for me why PRIDE was better than the UFC; they had more leeway to promote themselves and to showcase their brand to the viewing public, whereas in the UFC's case they were at the tail end of a PR war that started when they started.

 

i also loved PRIDE more than the UFC because of the rules they used respectively. the UFC had to contend with the uneducated public that, if Zuffa used PRIDE rules, would gather an angry mob and try to burn the UFC to the ground. the PRIDE rules were more exciting, but it wasn't more dangerous than the Unified Rules IMO.

 

as for the rosters, i don't see them like the WWE's RAW, SmackDown!, & ECW rosters. they are independent of the promotion IMO, & their skills are what's important rather than where they are fighting. the reader that emailed Yahoo! Sports writer Kevin Iole obviously left out Anderson Silva & Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera, who both fought in PRIDE. he also left out Nate Marquardt, who was the longtime Middleweight King Of Pancrase before he jumped to the UFC. for me it's not right to dismiss all the fighters coming from PRIDE, more so Fedor Emelianenko, because some of his counterparts (some he's already beaten) didn't become successful. that's just irresponsible, and a sign that this guy is really a casual fan rather than a student of the sport.

[cryptkpr]

ganda ng laban sa UFC 77

 

anderson silva vs. rich franklin

- i'd love to see this rematch and see how franklin would do the 2nd time around. i was very disappointed with his performance during the first fight. silva just had him in a muay thai clinch all throughout until he finally got beaten up so bad.

 

brandon vera vs. tim sylvia

- it'd be nice to see vera back in the octagon. he had such a promising career and was on his way to a title fight until the problem with his manager. i'd like to see him make it all the way to the top and fight the who's who in ufc's heavyweight like couture, etc.

[pr0nmast3r]

Lol at the one who said that chuck is 1 dimensional.

 

 

Chuck has a very effective takedown defense. He doesn't wanna settle the fight on the ground. He likes to box and brawl. (parang tank abbott).

 

and 1 dimensional e si jardine. he doesn't have a takedown defense. his chin is questionable. and what does he have? a right-left-right kick combo. that should be easily countered. i don't know why chuck's corner didn't see that.

 

yun lang nakita ko sa buong laban.. right - left punch, left-right punch, left-right body kick, left-low right kick and that left-right-right kick combinations.

[SevenZeroFive]

Lol at the one who said that chuck is 1 dimensional.

Chuck has a very effective takedown defense. He doesn't wanna settle the fight on the ground. He likes to box and brawl. (parang tank abbott).

 

and 1 dimensional e si jardine. he doesn't have a takedown defense. his chin is questionable. and what does he have? a right-left-right kick combo. that should be easily countered. i don't know why chuck's corner didn't see that.

 

yun lang nakita ko sa buong laban.. right - left punch, left-right punch, left-right body kick, left-low right kick and that left-right-right kick combinations.

^ Chuck's game is similar to Cro Cop; the only difference is that Cro Cop's striking is a million times better than Chuck. they both have awesome sprawls & they can bang hard. Chuck can attribute that to his wrestling background in Cal Poly, & Cro Cop can attribute his to Fabricio Werdum & the rest of the Cro Cop Squad. i guess it's just the age getting to them.

 

Jardine isn't really that one dimensional IMO, & i can say the same to every fighter under Greg Jackson. he does have victories via submission, it's just that he's able to work his way out of danger when he's on his back. either that, or his opponents try to bang with him. what i saw him do to Chuck when they fought was pretty appropriate for me, because when Chuck throws it really does leave him open for quick counters to the body. it's just Keith Jardine working with the positives that's left of his gameplan. he can't take Chuck down, it's a waste of energy. so, what to do? work on striking. that's the beauty of MMA. there's always an alternative to everything.

[Larry]

I think it was prematurely stopped by Big John... he could have let it go, because Liddell was the champ then... Well, safety of the fighters ang concern daw dun. But it could have gone either way...

705 is correct with this oneyou could see it in Chuck's eyes when he came to and started struggling, they were all glassy and unfocused a sure sign of getting KTFO. If BJM didn't stop it, Page would've knocked him out worse than that.and Rampage tooled Chuck before, it's not that hard to believe that he could do it again.

from Yahoo! Sports:SETTLE IT IN THE OCTAGONWe need not debate whether Pride is superior to UFC. We just simply let the fights show it. Let Jackson/Liddell, Rua/Griffin, Machida/Nakamura, Gonzaga/Cro Cop, and other UFC vs. Pride fights show it. And I will no longer be surprised if Randy Couture dominates Fedor Emelianenko once he comes to the UFC.TayshaunPhilippines

first off Tayshaun is a really stupid name for a pinoy. Fliggahs should really quit trying to be black.2nd he's obviously never seen a Pride bout before. Everything about Pride said world class (or at least they gave off that world class vibe) the venue was spectacular, the fighters were from all over the globe (it's only now that UFC has been really world class with their roster), that crazy lady that introduced the fighters (I miss her), even the audience was more educated about MMA, it was only in Pride where you'd hear the crowd cheer over a perfectly executed sweep from the guard, UFC fans still boo when there's a lot of ground action going on.and LOL @ UFC vs Pride fights, there are no more UFC vs. Pride fights, Rua is a UFC fighter, Crocop is a UFC fighter, Hendo is a UFC fighter and so on. (another LOL @ him pointing out the Jackson/Liddel fight, the guy from Pride won dude)---let's go Brandon!!! Edited September 27, 2007 by Larry

[bokybokx]

:thumbsdownsmiley: :thumbsdownsmiley:

 

I guess we deserved more than what was installed for us in Jackson Lidell fight... That was to be one of the most anticipated fight of the decade... The only loss Lidell haven't overcome yet... BJM prematurely stops the fight... For the reason that the only strike that hit Lidell clearly was the first. All the remaining puches was not so accurate. Lidell was down but was not out...

 

I guess we need to see Lidell vs Jackson III ... before Lidell retires... :thumbsupsmiley: :thumbsupsmiley:

[_eRon_]

I really hope Chuck doens't retire and comes back a better fighter..

 

I'm really glad Diego Sanchez go his ass kicked by Jon Fitch, Sanchez got what he deserved, Jon Fitch opened a can of whoop ass on him hehehe ..

[MRyoso]

Lol at the one who said that chuck is 1 dimensional.

Chuck has a very effective takedown defense. He doesn't wanna settle the fight on the ground. He likes to box and brawl. (parang tank abbott).

 

and 1 dimensional e si jardine. he doesn't have a takedown defense. his chin is questionable. and what does he have? a right-left-right kick combo. that should be easily countered. i don't know why chuck's corner didn't see that.

 

yun lang nakita ko sa buong laban.. right - left punch, left-right punch, left-right body kick, left-low right kick and that left-right-right kick combinations.

 

yes, chuck is a one dimensional fighter

 

good at takedown defense (true) except for the couture match

 

have you seen him grapple? (no)

 

he's suposed to be a kickboxer right? where are the kicks during the fight with the one dimensional fighter jardine? wala.

 

pati nga dipensa wala eh

 

his power is nothing compared to what he has before

 

he should reinvent his game if he wants to go back on track

[twentyone]

vera! vera! vera!

 

 

oh yeah, i havent followed the sport long enough to know how chuck really is like, but basing on the fight, he was ... hmm mediocre, at best.

[SevenZeroFive]

@ bokybokx

it was a flash KO, but it was a KO nonetheless. Chuck was borderline defenseless when Rampage dropped him, & Big John was just doing his job. he's pretty consistent with his stoppages too, so this isn't an isolated case. it's not like the PRIDE refs where their stoppages were either too early (Shamrock vs. Sakuraba, PRIDE 30) or too late (Sakuraba vs. Wanderlei, in those 4 times they fought). the storylines don't matter either; the WWE only follows storylines and angles. everyone would (and actually did) think that Chuck had Rampage figured out after they fought for the first time, that's why everyone was expecting Chuck to win. however, the Rampage that made Hackleman throw the towel isn't the same Rampage that dropped Chuck. Rampage decided to stand and bang with Chuck, & for some reason Chuck's approach wasn't like the one he used against Tito Ortiz (a Rampage clone if i'd ever see one) when they fought. he actually allowed Rampage to dictate the standup, which obviously worked to his favor. the thing is, if Chuck pushed the tempo and overwhelmed Rampage with his standup the result would be the same as when he beat Couture in the 2 times that he beat him. same with the Jardine fight, he let Jardine dictate the tempo in the standup, that's why he lost.

 

Chuck lost, but not just because Rampage was the better fighter that night. there are so much more reasons why he lost.

 

@ MRyoso

Chuck doesn't grapple that much because he doesn't need to. it's like that old MMA saying before: world class strikers can never be world class grapplers, and vice versa. the only people that comes close is Frank Shamrock & Fedor. if he's truly one-dimensional then he won't have that sprawl of his. that's from his wrestling days at Cal Poly. MMA fighters can't be 100% committed to only one aspect of their game, because it's simply impossible. they have to have a balance with their strengths and weaknesses. personally, i'm an 80/20 fighter (80% striker, 20% grappler) because of my background. fighters who came from a grappling background have a much closer ratio, but the grappling part still hovers over the striking part. for example, Lil Nog. he's a black belt in BJJ, and he's also an Olympic boxer. his ratio i'd say would be 45/55 (45% striking, 55% grappling) because he's grown so accustomed to BJJ that he always looks to that aspect of his game for the W. fighters can't abandon their specialty just to be "balanced". they enhance their strengths, while introducing new elements to their game that would benefit their specialty. that's how the MMA game works.

 

i'd agree with you though on his mistakes on the Jardine fight. he has been so accustomed to striking with only his hands that he has forgotten to kick. i can't blame him though, because in MMA kicks can translate into a takedown for the opponent. if Chuck did throw a kick my guess is that Jardine would've caught that kick and took him down. Jardine does train with Greg Jackson, so he does know a thing or two about grappling. i wouldn't fault him that much about not throwing kicks, but i'd fault him (and i've done it too) with his inability to check those kicks.

 

@ _eRon_

a lot of people are actually applauding Diego's performance, including myself, though in a losing effort against Fitch. for probably the first time in his career he showed his submission game, something the Generation TUF fans didn't see when Diego was starting back in TUF Season 1. i had the fight to Fitch, but by the slimmest of margins, largely due to Diego's submission attempts. he showed a ton of improvement in his game, & he has nothing to be ashamed of with that performance. honestly, it could've gone either way.

 

the loss to Koscheck did help him in a lot of ways, because that "undefeated legacy" of his really reeked of inexperience and arrogance that has no place in the sport (unless you're Tito Ortiz or Frank Shamrock). the loss humbled him, it helped him mature, and it showed when Smokin' Joe Rogan interviewed him after the fight with Fitch. he showed real class in acknowledging Fitch and his effort, and showed no ill will for his defeat. like what i posted before, these losses might be glaring in his record, but the benefits will show once he eventually becomes the UFC World Welterweight Champion.