Boston Celtics

[Basket Case]

It seems the negotiations are in a stalemate. Based on reports, the Cs don't wanna give up anything else as the addition of the Brooklyn pick was an overpay. Danny should just hold the line. If the Cavs want more, the Cs should just nix it. Although it may be difficult to reintegrate two disgruntled players, they still have to play if they wanna get paid. Besides, IT is in a contract year. Crowder will probably be traded again.

Will it make sense if Thomas and Crowder be traded somewhere else... And if that happens, a pick might be included...

[Dupin]

Steve Bulpett from the Boston Herald said that he's heard the Cavaliers were expecting what they saw from Thomas' physical with them. This shows that the Cavaliers are acting in bad faith in asking for more for Irving.

[Dupin]

Yes, I believe the Cavs' front office showed bad faith.

The question is will danny give in to their request?

[JFK]

The max Danny will give them is a second-round pick. That's it. If they push it, Danny will nix it.

Dapat nga, wala na. Kumbaga, take it or leave. If the Cavs don't take the trade offer ng Celtics, I believe they stand to lose more. Why hold on to a player (Irving) who does not want to play for you anymore? He doesn't even want to attend the pre-season team practice sessions. Better trade him for good players. The Celtics trade offer is more than enough. If the trade offer does not prosper, the Celts can offer and trade the players (Thomas & Crowder) to other teams if they wouldn't want to play again for the Celts but I believe being professionals themselves, they would still be willing to play for the Celts especially now that the team has Hayward with them.

Edited August 30, 2017 by JFK

[Dupin]

The max Danny will give them is a second-round pick. That's it. If they push it, Danny will nix it.

There's a report that the Bucks is offering Malcom Brognan , Khris Middleton if the Celtics-Cavs deal didn't push through. In less that 24 hours we'll know if its a done deal........ a very long 24 hours for us fans...

[nytcr4wl3r]

Reportedly, it is Cavs owner Dan Gilbert messing up what already is a done deal, with greediness just because Celts have a lot of assets.

[Dupin]

Boston is sending Cleveland a 2020 second-round pick to complete the Kyrie Irving-Isaiah Thomas trade

[bigintaguig]

Apparently, Danny agreed to a second-round pick. The question now is: would the Nets absoutely suck this year?

I think the Nets can be counted on to suck every year.

[rooster69ph]

Actually, the Cavs have no leverage since Irving wants out. It would be a dumb move for Ainge to add more picks if the Cavs ask for it. The Brooklyn pick is enough.

 

Well its seems that the Cavs do have leverage after all...as the desire of the C's to add Irving outweights the current position of the Cavs when Irving openly said he wants out.

 

If this was a game of poker, Ainge blinked and boy was he DUMB to add the 2nd round pick to improve their offer following your position early on.

[Basket Case]

If you think a second-round pick is leverage after holding out on a blockbuster deal, then you don't know what you're talking about. When you hold out a blockbuster deal like that for quite some time, you do it to get a high first-round draft pick or a quality player. The idiotic Cavs front office made fools of themselves by holding out and getting only a second-round pick. A second-round pick is usually trash so this is another example of quoting my post without knowing what I am posting about. Also, check out my post on the second-round draft pick.

 

I expect this to discussion to go to another straw man argument which I will, of course, point out, as usual.

You have predicted this outcome perfectly as if you are an actual nba agent...

[rooster69ph]

If you think a second-round pick is leverage after holding out on a blockbuster deal, then you don't know what you're talking about. When you hold out a blockbuster deal like that for quite some time, you do it to get a high first-round draft pick or a quality player. The idiotic Cavs front office made fools of themselves by holding out and getting only a second-round pick. A second-round pick is usually trash so this is another example of quoting my post without knowing what I am posting about. Also, check out my post on the second-round draft pick.

 

I expect this to discussion to go to another straw man argument which I will, of course, point out, as usual.

 

Well am just following your earlier argument that Ainge shouldn't agree to add more picks since according to you the Cavs has no leverage. Remember a deal was already agreed and in place. It is not as if the are still negotiating and the Cavs are holding out for a better offer. The fact of the matter is, i agree with those who believe the C's have the best offer out there for the Cavs and may have indeed overpay.

 

If we talk about picks ... Then it could a 1st or 2nd rd pick. They have different values but giving an additional second rounder to sweeten things up under the threat of a no go after earlier agreeing is still additional compensation.

 

Well ainge gave an additional pick even though a second rounder for the cavs to ok IT's physical. He had to, just to get the deal done. The Cav's may not have gotten what they wish for (the moon) but definitely got some more than what was initially agreed upon. Come to think of it does the Cavs have any better deal out there than the C's original offer? Nah the Bucks offer is quite far specially how you valued that Nets pick, the potential of that young big man plus the IT and Crowder. I've read somewhere that mas gusto nga ng Cavs si crowder, si IT well baka 1year rental lang ang tingin nila kaya napagisip-isip na humingi ng additional pick. So despite all of these the C's blink to a team that apparently has no leverage. As i said if Ainge really feels the Cavs don't have the leverage, then he should have called the bluff and stick to the original agreement than put a dash of sugar to slightly sweeten the deal further in order to compensate for iT's delayed healing.

 

Atat lang talaga siguro makuha ni ainge si Irving ...otherwise kung "trash" ang 2nd round pick bakit hindi kaagad inoffer o binigay na lang ni ainge yun sa umpisa? Wala naman itong halaga diba? Sana dinalawa na niyang 2nd rounder.

 

Well to sum it all up sa trade na ito hindi lang lamang ang Cavs sa C's ... Nakaisa pa!

Edited September 1, 2017 by rooster69ph

[rooster69ph]

 

Actually, the Cavs have no leverage since Irving wants out. It would be a dumb move for Ainge to add more picks if the Cavs ask for it. The Brooklyn pick is enough.

 

If you say so. The fact is that Nets pick is not sure yet to be a high pick. How sure are you IT will be healthy this year?

 

Well questions over IT's health is the main reason why the Cavs are asking for more ....

As far as the brooklyn pick, Let me throw the question back to you ...I agreee with you the nets pick may not be a high pick so if that is the case what is your basis in saying that the Brooklyn pick is enough?

[rooster69ph]

Because the Cs gave away three players already. The Brooklyn pick was an overpay even if it is not a a sure-fire high pick. Thomas, Crowder and Zizic should have been enough.

 

Ayun naman pala ... Ikaw na nagsabi the C's overpaid already with the nets pick whether or not it turns out to be ahigh pick.

 

So based on that tama nga na sabihin sa trade na ito nakalamang ang C's...nakaisa (additional 2nd rd) pa.

[rooster69ph]

Baka ibig mo sabihin lamang ang Cavs. Kung ganun ang tingin mo, then you must be a clairvoyant.

 

No need to be a clairvoyant ... malinaw naman pagkasabi mo at pagkaintindi ko sa sinabi mo

[rooster69ph]

Yun pala eh.

 

Kaya nga ang cavs ay nakalamang na at nakaisa pa. Taka nga ako panay react mo eh. Yun pinagsasabi mo lang naman basehan ko. Edited September 1, 2017 by rooster69ph

[rooster69ph]

If you think a second-round pick makes them "lamang", then that is your warped opinion.

Well wala akong sinabing ganyan...

 

 

as you said the C's overpaid ... Kaya nakalamang

 

Yun 2nd rd pick sabi mo di na dapat nagbigay ng pick pa, kaya ....nakaisa pa

 

Kaya nakalamang na nakaisa pa. Hehehe ... Anong warped dun? Ikaw naman ang pinanggalingan nun.

 

Bottomline is Ainge should have just walk away from the deal considering it was a fair deal already, in fact as you said he even overpaid, if he thinks the Cavs has no leverage. The Cavs too won't ask for additional sweeteners if they think they don't have leverage. Well the leverage might have been their knowledge that Ainge would really wanted to get Kyrie and probably won't let this deal slip away even if there are people like you who thinks he already overpaid and have to pay some more to a team that has no leverage with them.

Edited September 1, 2017 by rooster69ph

[JFK]

Apparently, Danny agreed to a second-round pick. The question now is: would the Nets absoutely suck this year?

I think it just really shows how bad the Celtics organization wanted to have Irving. They certainly took a big risk in this trade. Who knows this might be a good trade for them after all. It might be worth it after giving away so much. Remember the Jabbar trade (Milwaukee to L.A.) and the Robert Parish trade (Golden State to Boston) ? Add to this, the trade that gave them the no. 3 pick which turned out to be Kevin Mchale. This might be a blessing in disguise.

Edited September 1, 2017 by JFK

[rooster69ph]

I think it just really shows how bad the Celtics organization wanted to have Irving. They certainly took a big risk in this trade. Who knows this might be a good trade for them after all. It might be worth it after giving away so much. Remember the Jabbar trade (Milwaukee to L.A.) and the Robert Parish trade (Golden State to Boston) ? Add to this, the trade that gave them the no. 3 pick which turned out to be Kevin Mchale. This might be a blessing in disguise.

True ... The Cavs probably believe that the C's really wanted Irving (maybe even desperate) thus they used this as leverage to ask for Additional compensation after evaluating the extent of IT's injury.

 

At the end the day, Ainge can actually take a hardline stance and tell the Cavs he's walking away from the deal if they want more assets and they can have Irving back. instead he blinked and gave another 2nd rounder to the Cavs just to make it happen even if many believed that the C's original offer was already the best the Cavs could get and the C's may have already overpaid.

[rooster69ph]

Again, the Cavs had no leverage because if they did, they would have gotten Tatum or Brown.

 

Your argument that if the Cavs had leverage then they should have gotten either one of the two players you mentioned is flawed since there is is no absolute disclosure or confirmation that either of them was asked for by the Cavs. So, paano mo naman nalamam na hinihingi talaga (with absolute certainty) ng Cavs na isama un alinman sa dalawa bilang pandagdag sa naunang napagkasunduan? Hearsay dahil may nabasa ka lang? Well kung ganun a day after may naibalitang baka isa dun sa dalawang player ang hingiin ng Cavs eh may lumabas na balita na sinasabing hindi nila ito hinihingi kundi additional picks. Quite convenient not to incorporate that to boost your argument noh?

 

Leverage is being able to use your position to get what you want. In this case it is clear the cavs wanted more assets to compensate them for the extent of IT's injury and the C's on the other hand does not want to give more. At the end of the day after negatiations, the fact is the celtics had to throw in an additional asset (even if it was just a 2nd round pick) the Cavs were asking just to complete the deal even though as you said the celtics have originally overpaid already since the nets pick is enough.

 

As JFK said, it shows how bad the C's wanted to get Irving ... The Cavs knew this and used this as their leverage to get more ... They got more when as you said the C's overpaid to get this deal and they have to pay some more than what was originally agreed upon. The C's if they think they have the upper hand could simply take a take it or leave it stance instead of renegotiating.

Edited September 1, 2017 by rooster69ph

[rooster69ph]

It seems teams know how bad Ainge wanted to add another superstar this summer and use this as their leverage to get more from him considering the assets he has.

 

I mean look at the Irving deal, they not only overpaid as people thought but have to pay some more to seal it. Are there even other offers out there that can beat the C's original offer? the Bucks offer? Well not close imho. Also remember the negotiations with the Pacers for PG? Many believe that the C's offer definitely was superior than what the Pacers actually got for PG. well could it be a case wherein ainge thought the Pacers have no leverage and therefore given the very good deal he offered thinks he should just stick to it and force the Pacers to accept it as is instead of giving more. Unfortunately, the Pacers played hard ball and took the far inferior offer probably to make a statement to Ainge that despite the fact that they are in a desperate position to move PG or lose him for nothing after the end of the season. Could this have played a part in the Kyrie renegotiation? I mean even if the celtics already overpaid or have the best offer out there they couldn't threaten the Cavs to take it or leave fearing that the Cavs may call their bluff and take a lesser deal. if that happens he'd be f#&ked up the second time around this summer. Note that another consideration is that the Cavs are not even in the same desperate position as the Pacers to move Kyrie as he still under contract for 2 yrs. if the Pacers could just walk away from a best deal they have on the table just like that to pist Ainge, what makes him think the Cavs won't do the same if they don't get what they are amenable to?

[rooster69ph]

This post of yours only proves you are clueless on how the deal worked. Yes, the Cavs targeted either Tatum or Brown when they held out on this deal. Read up and don't quote a post which you have no inkling about.

Hearsay...

 

There were also reports that Says they didn't

Edited September 2, 2017 by rooster69ph

[rooster69ph]

The fact of the matter is the Cavs had no leverage. This is another convoluted post which does not prove anything.

Because you said so???

[rooster69ph]

No, it's a fact that the Cavs had no leverage because if they did, they would have gotten either Brown or Tatum. Use your common sense.

 

Go on and think that way. I mean you are entitled to have an opinion, no matter how warped it is.

 

Well if the cavs didn't have the leverage then why didn't ainge just stick to his original offer which you said he already overpaid with that nets pick?

[bigintaguig]

Well for this year in particular they've completely gutted their roster, traded away their best player, will choose starters from a combination of levert, Lin, kilpatrick, Russell and Crabbe. This doesn't even take into consideration that their front court is literally non-existent. I think it would be pretty safe to say that they will suck.

[Guest]

Its Final Thomas goes to Cavs