Supplements - to Take or Not to Take?

[spitzky]

NO2 is crap... if ur still taking NO2, u myt as well burn ur all ur cash...

[ElPatayo]

Guys ano marerecomend nyo to have a flat tummy?

[van_wilder]

do a lots of cardio, situps and take thermogenics (SAN Tight, Muscletech hydroxycut, muscletech thermogain, cytdoyne xenadrine nrg, cytodyne xenadrine efx - only one of them ah)

[spitzky]

Guys ano marerecomend nyo to have a flat tummy?

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look, if ur still eating crap (sugars, junk, oil), no amount of fat burners will ever trim ur tummy <_<

[gryphon]

safe pa ba ang steriods na injectible?

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The use of steroids is a personal one. We are all adults here and you have to make up your own mind. You will get big, but at what cost. I'm a fan of getting big, but not at the expense of your health. To get big one needs to be consistent in your diet, supplement and exercise. You will reach your goal and you won't have to deal with the negative side effects of steroids.

 

http://www.thesteroidtruth.com/sideeffectsa.htm

 

Water Retention:

 

This is most common from using steroids. It is a “puffiness” or swelling in the neck and facial areas. It is rather notable mainly if you know the person is on steroids. For example, I know someone that took steroids but I did not know it at the time. After I found out, if I looked his face I would wonder how I couldn’t notice he was on roids before. It can be mild swelling or very serious, obvious swelling.

 

Acne:

 

Everyone knows about acne, and is one of the side effects I worry about the most for me. It is also a very common side effect, it can give acne to someone who has never had acne, and it can make acne worse for others. It can also appear in new places for a person, such as, the back and neck. There have been several users that have not received acne on the other hand.

 

Gynecomastia:

 

It may not sound familiar but most people have heard about it. It is the formation of breasts, or abnormally large glands. The first signs are lumps under the nipples, then will gradually grow to fatty tissue and increase in size.

 

Aggression:

 

Aggression, also know as “roid rages”. Surprisingly, several athletes feel this is a positive effect. They often find they lift more, and are more intense during workouts. On the negative side, users find themselves fighting with family, friends, and co-workers with an uptight behaviour.

 

Hypertension:

 

High blood pressure is also a chance when taking steroids. Most athletes would not know if they had high blood pressure so it is suggested to get tests regularly. High blood pressure can lead to many more serious diseases.

 

Cardiovascular Disease:

 

Studies have shown that steroid use is a risk factor for heart disease. This is because steroids affect the cholesterol levels. Over a period of time the cholesterol builds up and clogs the arteries.

 

Palpitations:

 

Heart palpitations have been reported by a number of athletes on steroids. These may indicate an excited or elevated level of the central nervous system.

 

Impotence:

 

Impotence occurs when a user goes on and off steroids. When steroids are first used sexual interest increases because of the heightened frequency and duration of the erections. But eventually the opposite happens and no erections can be produced.

 

Jaundice:

 

A serious liver disease which is found by an enlarged painful liver, yellowing of the eyes and skin, and flu like symptoms. This happens when athletes use high dosages of steroids.

[gryphon]

Guys ano marerecomend nyo to have a flat tummy?

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You can do 100's of sit-ups a day and still not see that flat stomach. What you will get is a hard stomach with a layer of fat over it. The end result will be the same when you take off your shirt. Instead of girls saying ….OH’s and AAH’s. It will be more like ILLL. :sick:

 

The key is to combine those exercises with a low fat diet. How is that done when you are a typical filipino with the standard diet of fried pork, chicken, rice, soda and beer. The answer .... You CAN'T. You need to rethink your diet. I'm not saying to cut down every now and then, but to drastically convert to a low fat, low calorie diet. If you can’t commit to this then you may want to keep that shirt on when you’re in public. It seems harsh, but so are those gigles from the cutie in the 2 piece looking at you.

[van_wilder]

low-fat diet not low-carb diet... low-carb high-protein = kidney stones...

[pugadbaboy]

safe pa ba ang steriods na injectible?

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Of course not. And why would you want to take steroids ? Masama lang sa katawan. Aside from what gryphon posted - another side effect might be liliit si junior kung lalaki ka or magkakabalbas ka at makakalbo kung babae ka. Bakit liliit si junior ? Because your body might shut down the production of testosterone due to the excess testosterone brought on by the steroids - so once nagstop ka ng steriods eh no turning back na minsan - wala ka ng natural testosterone hormone.

 

Anyway, if you really want to be stronger and bigger - use Creatine and take ZMA. Wala ka pang poproblemahin.

[Mr. Shagwell]

i read in one article that muscle building supplements works best for those who have already maximized their full potential in body building. Beginners and intermediate builders won't get

much results since they have not yet realized the full gains of weight lifting.

[technomarine 2]

Some works, some doesnt. It really depends sa response ng body mo e and the way you use the supps too. So its a trial and error thing. As for me, i try to research muna sa contents, read reviews and their effects sa ka body type ko. Last but not the least.. the economical one.. hehehe.

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try gnld products. at least to may studies talaga.

[hapiguyMD]

anyone here tried celltech? Is it really more effective than regular creatine? I know, crea should be all alike, but these guys claim to be 17x more effective than regular creatine! Just wondering if anyone has practical experience with it.

 

And does anyone have any suggestions kung saan mura bumili ng supplements? i've been trying to contact the guys who advertise here but to no avail. Medyo mahal kasi sa GNC eh...

 

THanks guys!!!

[van_wilder]

uy andrean! wag ka kumuha sa paranaque! powder yan dinadala dito, tapos dito na pinapack... minsan hinahaluan pa. dapat kuhaan mo yun sa port/customs. kasi pagdating nun dito packed na. pero masmahal nga lang.

[spitzky]

You can do 100's of sit-ups a day and still not see that flat stomach.  What you will get is a hard stomach with a layer of fat over it.  The end result will be the same when you take off your shirt.  Instead of girls saying ….OH’s and AAH’s.    It will be more like ILLL.  :sick:

 

The key is to combine those exercises with a low fat diet.  How is that done when you are a typical filipino with the standard diet of fried pork, chicken, rice, soda and beer.  The answer .... You CAN'T.  You need to rethink your diet.  I'm not saying to cut down every now and then, but to drastically convert to a low fat, low calorie diet.  If you can’t commit to this then you may want to keep that shirt on when you’re in public.  It seems harsh, but so are those gigles from the cutie in the 2 piece looking at you.

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low fat diet??? where have u been the last 5 years? :boo: ... the low fat diet is nothing but a 90's fad! :thumbsdownsmiley:

[spitzky]

low-fat diet not low-carb diet... low-carb high-protein = kidney stones...

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pare, hav u ever read any scientific studies to prove ur statement? :thumbsdownsmiley:

have u EVER even read ANY science journals at all? <_<

[gryphon]

low fat diet??? where have u been the last 5 years?  :boo: ... the low fat diet is nothing but a 90's fad!  :thumbsdownsmiley:

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Spitky,

 

Give us your take on the problem of fat loss. What do you recommend other than a low-fat, low-calorie diet?

 

I believe you must stabilize your blood sugar. This is an important factor when it comes to burning away that excess body fat and keeping it off. To effectively stabilize your blood sugar you must feed your body frequently; like every 2-3 hours. Give your body the fuel it needs: vegetables, fruits, nuts, berries, whole grains, and lean proteins (chicken, fish, lean beef, eggs, etc.).

[gryphon]

pare, hav u ever read any scientific studies to prove ur statement?  :thumbsdownsmiley:

have u EVER even read ANY science journals at all? 

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Spitky,

 

We are all friends here. We are all trying to pass information that will be helpful to others. As for your request for scientific studies please see below:

 

Note: there is a difference between animal protein and vegetable protein.

 

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The researchers, led by Dr Shalini Reddy from the University of Chicago, found that six weeks on a low carbohydrate, high protein diet increased the acid load to the kidneys, raising the risk of kidney stones. Animal protein has been shown to boost urinary excretion of oxalate, a compound that combines with calcium and other compounds to form kidney stones.

 

The new study included 10 healthy adults aged 21 to 52 who ate their usual diet for two weeks, then a low carbohydrate, high protein diet for two weeks, and finally a diet that restricted carbohydrates only moderately for four weeks. The diets included three litres of fluid a day.

 

Study volunteers lost an average of 9 lb (4 kg), but most developed ketones—compounds formed when the body uses its own fat as fuel and can raise acid levels in the blood. Acid excretion, a marker of acid levels in the blood, rose by 90% in some volunteers, but none of the volunteers developed metabolic acidosis. Urinary calcium levels also rose sharply.

 

Although it is not clear from the study whether bone mass was affected, the findings show that such diets may increase the risk of bone loss over the long term.

 

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Popular low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets may result in rapid weight loss, but researchers at UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas report that they also pose serious health problems, including an increase in the risk of kidney stones and a possible higher risk of bone loss.

 

Significant factors related to the increased kidney stone risk, according to the study, are the acidic content of animal meat and the lack of alkaline foods in the diet. The findings are included in the August issue of The American Journal of Kidney Diseases.

 

Researchers report that acid excretion - a marker for the acid load in the blood - increased as much as 90 percent while subjects were on diets that severely restricted carbohydrates. Levels of urinary citrate, which inhibits kidney stones, fell by almost 25 percent in the group during the six-week study.

 

"People may lose weight on this diet, but this study shows that this is not a healthy way to lose weight," said Dr. Chia-Ying Wang, a co-author of the study and an assistant professor of internal medicine at UT Southwestern.

 

"When you restrict the amount of carbohydrates you can go into a state called ketoacidosis," Wang said. "Our body needs a certain source of energy and a quick source are carbohydrates, which are readily available. When you restrict carbohydrates the body then turns to other sources, one of which is fat. Ketone bodies are formed when the body is forced to burn fat for energy which may result in a state of ketoacidosis."

 

Ketoacidosis is a condition resulting from an accumulation of ketone bodies in the blood and increased blood acidity.

 

Ten healthy subjects ate a regular diet for two weeks at the start of the study. They followed that with a highly restrictive diet that included some vegetables but no fruits and less than 20 grams of carbohydrates for two weeks. Participants then ate a less-restrictive diet for the final four weeks. During the last five days of each of these stages, the study subjects stayed overnight in UT Southwestern's General Clinical Research Center for testing. Each member of the group also took a daily multivitamin tablet.

 

Urinary citrate levels fell from 763 milligrams per day to 449 mg per day during intake of the severely carbohydrate-restricted diet, researchers report in the journal. Subject readings improved to 581 mg per day during intake of the moderately carbohydrate-restricted diet.

 

The researchers also report that net acid excretion rose from baseline levels of 61 milliequivalents per day to 116 mEq per day during the severely carbohydrate-restricted diet phase. Levels were 112 mEq per day when the group switched to a moderately carbohydrate-restricted diet. Chronic acid load suppresses the function of osteoblasts, bone-forming cells, and stimulates the function of osteoclasts, a cell associated with bone resorption.

 

"This type of diet increases the propensity to develop kidney stones," Wang said. "On the basis of this study alone, there was an increased risk of developing kidney stones and a possible increase in the risk of bone loss. We already know that osteoporosis is going to be a major issue as the population ages and if people are going to eat this kind of diet on a long-term basis, it's unknown what the implications would be for your bones."

 

Researchers are now studying the effects of this protein- and fat-heavy diet on the bones and are developing methods to counteract the higher risk of kidney stones.

 

"We are not questioning the value of this diet in producing weight loss," said Dr. Kashayer Sakhaee, co-author of the study and a professor of internal medicine "We are investigating a countermeasure so that subjects can benefit from weight loss without experiencing the side effects of increased risk of stones and bone loss." Sakhaee holds the BeautiControl Cosmetics Inc. Professorship in Mineral Metabolism and Osteoporosis.

 

Other UT Southwestern researchers who participated in the study include Dr. Charles Pak, senior author of the study and director of the Center for Mineral Metabolism and Clinical Research, and Linda Brinkley, a registered dietitian and research scientist in the Center for Mineral Metabolism and Clinical Research. Dr. Shalini Reddy, formerly of UT Southwestern and presently with the University of Chicago, is the study's lead author.

 

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Compared to animal protein, vegetable protein has a reduced effect on urinary calcium, uric acid and citrate secondary to generation of less fixed acid. If the Robert Atkins diet in principle relies on high protein intake achieved by increased animal protein intake then this will lead to an increased risk of renal stone formation over time.

 

References

 

(1) Breslau NA, Brinkley L, Hill KD, Pak CY. Relationship of animal protein-rich diet to kidney stone formation and calcium metabolism. J Clin Endorinol Metab 1988; 66:140-6.

 

(2) Kok DJ, Iestra JA, Doorenbos CJ, Papapoulos SE. The effects of dietary excesses in animal protein and in sodium on the composition and the crystallization kinetics of calcium oxalate monohydrate in urines of healthy men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1990; 71:861-7.

 

(3) Sayer JA, Simmons NL.Urinary Stone Formation: Dent's Disease Moves Understanding Forward. Exp Nephrol 2002; 10: 176-81

[gryphon]

anyone here tried celltech? Is it really more effective than regular creatine? I know, crea should be all alike, but these guys claim to be 17x more effective than regular creatine! Just wondering if anyone has practical experience with it.

 

And does anyone have any suggestions kung saan mura bumili ng supplements? i've been trying to contact the guys who advertise here but to no avail. Medyo mahal kasi sa GNC eh...

 

THanks guys!!!

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Celltech is expensive. I got hooked on their fancy marketing and tried it. Unfortunately, I didn't get the results they claimed. Actually I've tried several dry creatine brands (celltech, GNC, and some other no name brand) and the result was the same. I did see an increase in my weight training, but I did get a bloated feeling. The sudden increase in my shirt size was more due to water weight gain I believe. My friends would comment my face looked rounder even though my diet and exercise routine didn't change. As soon as I stopped or was cycling my creatine I lost endurance, poundage and water weight. As least the bloat feeling went away.

 

I'm not saying you should not take creatine. It's been one of the stand-by products I take before hitting the gym. The only difference is my recommendation of taking LIQUID creatine. There is no cycling, no loading phase, no bloat feeling and no water weight gain. I'm presently using Creatine Elixir from Body Tech. I haven't tried ATP Serum, so I can't comment on the product. The result is more sets and more gains. I can truly feel the lack of energy when I forget to take my creatine before my workout. Trying to get that pump from your muscles is so much harder.

[phantom_23]

mga tol i'm planning to work-out contineously,,dati na akong nagwowork-out but hindi regular...mascular na built ko kahit hindi ako regular na nagwowork out,,ano ba magandang supp. sa akin to maintain a good bloob press. mataas kc ang bp ko...

[van_wilder]

pare, hav u ever read any scientific studies to prove ur statement?  :thumbsdownsmiley:

have u EVER even read ANY science journals at all? 

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yeah i did... but i dont have to post it here since i think common sense na lang yun... everyone knows na too much protein is bad to your liver and kidney... if low ang consumption ng carbs walang ooffset...

 

pero if ayaw mo maniwala, eh di subukan mo...

[gryphon]

mga tol i'm planning to work-out contineously,,dati na akong nagwowork-out  but hindi regular...mascular na built ko kahit hindi ako regular na nagwowork out,,ano ba magandang supp. sa akin to maintain a good bloob press. mataas kc ang bp ko...

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You should consult a physician to verify your high blood pressure isn't a result of an illness. I also had high blood pressure due to stress. My pressure was close to 150/100 on a normal basis and was considered 1st stage hypertention. I didn't want to take the prescription since it would have been a little to harsh on my liver. I looked for a herbal alternative and found the following supplements that dropped my BP to 119/65 and kept my cholesterol level in check. It also has an added benefit of giving me the proper amount of nutrients to take on my workouts, my poor fast food diet and reduce my calorie intake. It seems like alot. Ok, it's close to 30 pills a day does seem excessive. I can't argue with the results. The bold items are the ones that will reduce your BP. I included my other supplements since you probably live in my kind of world of high stress and poor diet.

 

 

Natural E D-alpha Tocopheryl

Coenzyme Q-10

DMAE

B-100® (Vitamin B Complex) Time Release Tablets

Green Tea Extract

ULTRA VITA MAN Tablets (multi-vitamin)

Milk Thistle (Silymarin) Standardized Extract

Odorless Garlic

Alpha Lipoic Acid

Super EPA Natural Fish Oil Omega-3

Calcium Magnesium Citrate + D

Zinc

plus 50 grams of soy protein and Liquid creatine

[spitzky]

im all for low carbs, moderate fats and hi protein.... how else can i get huuuge???

a lot of conflicting research has been done on diets, yet if the hi-protein diet really is that bad, how come there is no kidney stone epidemic among bodybuilders? these ppl have been loading up on protein since the first quarter of the last century, decades before Atkins introduced the concept to the general public... as for ketosis, IT IS NATURAL... we all undergo ketosis during sleep! ever wonder why ur breath stinks after u wake up? thats bcz of all the ketones u excreted during the nyt...

personal agendas aside, this is a very lucrative and controversial topic, and a single study cant prove anything

[spitzky]

im all for low carbs, moderate fats and hi protein.... how else can i get huuuge???

a lot of conflicting research has been done on diets, yet if the hi-protein diet really is that bad, how come there is no kidney stone epidemic among bodybuilders? these ppl have been loading up on protein since the first quarter of the last century, decades before Atkins introduced the concept to the general public... as for ketosis, IT IS NATURAL... we all undergo ketosis during sleep! ever wonder why ur breath stinks after u wake up? thats bcz of all the ketones u excreted during the nyt...

personal agendas aside, this is a very lucrative and controversial topic, and a single study cant prove anything...

 

if u wanna take a look at the other side of the coin, go to t-nation.com

[spitzky]

Natural E D-alpha Tocopheryl

Coenzyme Q-10

DMAE

B-100® (Vitamin B Complex) Time Release Tablets

Green Tea Extract

ULTRA VITA MAN Tablets (multi-vitamin)

Milk Thistle (Silymarin) Standardized Extract

Odorless Garlic

Alpha Lipoic Acid

Super EPA Natural Fish Oil Omega-3

Calcium Magnesium Citrate + D

Zinc

plus 50 grams of soy protein and Liquid creatine

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SOY PROTEIN???? thats more dangerous than steroids!!! :thumbsdownsmiley:

[gryphon]

SOY PROTEIN???? thats more dangerous than steroids!!!  :thumbsdownsmiley:

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I'm interested in hearing your view on the dangers of soy protein. How is it more dangerous than steroids?

[van_wilder]

im not saying hi-protein is bad... low-carb is bad! hi-protein but hi-carb is good... hi-protein and LOW-CARB is bad... wait and see na lang if you want...