South China/West Philippine Sea

[Larry]

you haven't answered any of my questions.

[Bugatti Veyron]

here's a map of both country's ADIZ and how they overlap

 

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/11/29/1385719647553/ef2edc37-5e17-4c49-adca-85c41b0f4b1a-460x447.png

 

here's another map that shows what's really disputed.

 

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71374000/gif/_71374663_chunxiao_gas_624map.gif

 

you can see clearly that a gas field lies smack in the middle of both country's EEZs.

 

and to add more it seems that the island chain is part of China's military defense doctrine

 

The first island chain has its purpose in Chinese military doctrine. The People's Republic of China views the first island chain as the area it must secure and disable from American bases, aircraft and aircraft-carrier groups, if in defending itself it must tactically unleash a pre-emptive attack against an enemy. The aim of the doctrine is to seal off the Yellow Sea, South China Sea and East China Sea inside an arc running from the Aleutians in the north to Borneo in the south.[3] According to reports by American think tanks CSBA and RAND, by 2020, China will be well on its way to having the means to achieve its first island chain policy.[4]

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/First_island_chain_perimeter_%28marked_in_red%29.jpg

 

you'll see the island chain outlined in red on the map, you'll also notice how closely it comes to us as it envelops the entire Philippine Sea almost.

 

so all these islands that the Chinese are claiming are important for two reasons 1) as a potential natural resource for their economy and 2) as a national pre-emptive defensive chain that would stop any potential attackers coming from the pacific i.e. America.

 

Now of the two I'm most concerned about the second reason. Establishing a defensive perimeter, very aggressively I might add, keeps up the appearance of a willingness to go to war.

 

And to further complicate things, China it seems is poised to stake a claim for Siberia as well. A land which they view largely as being taken by force by the Russians, and historically belongs to China. This will not sit well with the Russians should China stake their claim seriously (in the same way they're doing in the South), Siberia occupies about a third of Russia's land mass, and has vast natural resources. The thing is, Chinese businesses is largely responsible for Siberia's sustained economy. The richest people in the Siberian border towns are chinese businessmen.

 

If I didn't know better, it seems like China wants to take over Asia.

Just like Hitler wanted to take over Europe in the 1930s.

[Bugatti Veyron]

agreed on your definition of saving face, but we were discussing saving face in the light of the declaration of the ADIZ declared by China.

 

so you were clearly referencing another incident, am I correct? I should suggest that if you're referencing a different incident you should probably preface your posts with that to avoid confusion.

 

 

 

 

I don't see how this is relevant, even if it were true

 

*grammar police note: There is no plural to the word evidence, in the same way that the words "stuff" and "furniture" don't have plural forms. these words are defined as uncountable nouns and always remain singular. You can however use "pieces of evidence" to imply that there is in fact more than 1 piece of evidence. I'm sorry as this is a pet peeve of mine and it irritates me to no end.

[sonnyt111]

you haven't answered any of my questions.

I'm not surprised in the least. Your patience is admirable bro Larry. I don't know how much more of that I could take.

[sonnyt111]

I guess it wasn't just me.

 

Nor me either. Though it seems Larry isn't through with him yet. Like a cat playing with a mouse before going for the k*ll.

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

Nor me either. Though it seems Larry isn't through with him yet. Like a cat playing with a mouse before going for the k*ll.

He should put him out of his misery.

[tk421]

Good grief! China is now hinting that it will set up a similar ADIZ in South China Sea...

[Larry]

I don't see why they wouldn't.

 

they already started it, they're probably just holding off now because of the initial response they got from the East China Sea ADIZ, and probably because of the presence of multiple carriers in the Philippines.

[Larry]

He should put him out of his misery.

 

lol

[hit05]

I'm not surprised in the least. Your patience is admirable bro Larry. I don't know how much more of that I could take.

Come on, you really cannot take much. Why even post in this thread?

[hit05]

Just like Hitler wanted to take over Europe in the 1930s.

 

 

In a way you are correct, China is still trapped in time. It does not understand how the world is evolving and what direction it is taking.

 

China today is attempting to accomplish something that has been proven to fail, just like the gullible decision to follow communist doctrines - which incidentally remains their great stumbling block towards progress.

[jacuzzi]

Larry perhaps you ought to realize the CHARACTER of the issue. It is no secret that Mao instituted Re-education and even today, the ordinary Chinese is not allowed to communicate or adventure OUTSIDE the realm of that Socialist PROPAGANDA machine. The minds and hearts of your ordinary Chinese are captives of this false propaganda. Greater China is under tight information controls which is known as the Great Firewall of China to prevent any question or comment that can puncture or demolish the false and artificial image they hold of most anything.

 

Now can you explain to us why are you even tolerating or presenting discussions into what is clearly PROPAGANDA? Have you no sense that these are not correct or have no sound basis? It is like being sold dud - or a lemon. All the warning signs are there yet you still want to waste time and effort entertaining a sales pitch.

 

Like DRUGS, the best reaction is just to say NO.

 

http://stafford.schoolfusion.us/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/120789/Image/Support%20Services/DSSRM/Say%20No%20to%20Drugs.gif

 

 

 

 

you haven't answered any of my questions.

Edited December 4, 2013 by jacuzzi

[Larry]

I still maintain that you haven't answered any of my questions, rhetorical responses don't count

 

but I'll indulge you.

 

The Cultural Revolution ended way before I was even born, and so with it the socialist agenda of the Maoists and the gang of four.

 

If you look closely China's economic model is nowhere near what the Maoists wanted to institute, it's a strange hybrid of socialism and capitalism, and it seems to be working well.

 

but the whole point of this thread is not China's socialist propaganda. They're not spreading socialist propaganda as far as I can see, they're secretive but they're not trying to convert the world to submit to their socialist "propaganda". Their socialist propaganda as you call it, is mainly internal (although I doubt this too), and not exposed, nor is it pushed to the outside world.

 

Given that, Chinese socialist ideals are way off base in a discussion about Chinese expansionist policies in the south and east china sea. It seems to me that you're the one pushing anti-socialist propaganda in this thread (or any other thread that has china in it) which seems kooky and insane as a) we're not turning into socialists anytime soon and there's no one pushing a counter pro-socialist agenda in this entire forum. Looks like you're crying wolf when there are no wolves around.

[jacuzzi]

I still maintain that you haven't answered any of my questions, rhetorical responses don't count

 

but I'll indulge you.

 

The Cultural Revolution ended way before I was even born, and so with it the socialist agenda of the Maoists and the gang of four.

 

If you look closely China's economic model is nowhere near what the Maoists wanted to institute, it's a strange hybrid of socialism and capitalism, and it seems to be working well.

 

but the whole point of this thread is not China's socialist propaganda. They're not spreading socialist propaganda as far as I can see, they're secretive but they're not trying to convert the world to submit to their socialist "propaganda". Their socialist propaganda as you call it, is mainly internal (although I doubt this too), and not exposed, nor is it pushed to the outside world.

 

Given that, Chinese socialist ideals are way off base in a discussion about Chinese expansionist policies in the south and east china sea. It seems to me that you're the one pushing anti-socialist propaganda in this thread (or any other thread that has china in it) which seems kooky and insane as a) we're not turning into socialists anytime soon and there's no one pushing a counter pro-socialist agenda in this entire forum. Looks like you're crying wolf when there are no wolves around.

Larry, if there is one tinge of credibility then by all means, let us take that ride together. But as has been pointed out several times, the underlying Chinese propaganda that you prefer to discuss is not the TRUTH and DECEIT is the basis for their expansionist movement.

 

Besides, actions speak LOUDER than words. If China had really been successful then perhaps they can sleep soundly without that Great Firewall. Or China would not even raise a formidable military and stick to pure economic model of business rather than challenge the stability of the region that will surely ROCK THE BOAT of what you are claiming here as the prevailing Win-Win Chinese economic fundamentals.

Edited December 4, 2013 by jacuzzi

[Larry]

your first sentence makes no sense at all

 

But as has been pointed out several times, the underlying Chinese propaganda that you prefer to discuss is not the TRUTH and DECEIT is the basis for their expansionist movement.

 

I have not discussed any Chinese propaganda, at least none that I'm aware of. did I do this discussion subconsciously?and If you are referring to the fact that I pointed out Chinese expansion efforts, that's hardly propaganda, it's not even pro anything with regard to the chinese.

 

If China had really been successful then perhaps they can sleep soundly without that Great Firewall.

 

successful at what?

 

what you are claiming here as the prevailing Win-Win Chinese economic fundamentals.

 

when have I claimed this win win chinese economic fundamentals?

 

are you sure it's me you're talking to? it certainly doesn't sound anything like me. and I know me.