South China/West Philippine Sea

[Larry]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tBwUTsbU0M0/TaxF3voG5-I/AAAAAAAAAeY/c-IxuGYm3gs/s1600/lion_face_palm.jpg

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tBwUTsbU0M0/TaxF3voG5-I/AAAAAAAAAeY/c-IxuGYm3gs/s1600/lion_face_palm.jpg

:lol: :excl:

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tBwUTsbU0M0/TaxF3voG5-I/AAAAAAAAAeY/c-IxuGYm3gs/s1600/lion_face_palm.jpg

I really like your sense of humor Larry!

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

It works both ways and the billions of Chinese will probably get pissed by government wishing to risk warfare and disturb the economic transformation to modernity.

 

It has already been pointed out that nationalism is incompatible with democracy. Nationalism can be traced to the rise of Napoleon when the French eliminated their monarchs and then fought without a crown but with a flag instead. In fact the French subdued religion due to the paranoia that the Church will destroy their political gains and stop the bloody Reign of Terror using moral issues. Instead of God, the French turned to a mythical Lady Liberty - which is a false God or false Religion of Freedom.

I think I'll try to give this one a shot. What you're saying is the disenchantment of the French people with the Monarchy culminated with the French Revolution which began in 1789. You're also saying that the dictatorship of the French Jacobins, under the leadership of Maximilien Robespierre, put a muzzle on the Church to prevent it from criticizing the Revolution, particularly the period between September, 1793 and July, 1794, better known as the Reign of Terror in which tens of thousands of perceived enemies were executed, many by guillotine. Hence your reference to this era in French history as "bloody." And the "mythical Lady Liberty" which you refer to is the symbol we all know today as the Statue of Liberty which the French presented to the American people in view their own American Revolution. Is this what you meant to say? And that Lady Liberty, in your view, is a false God/false religion of freedom designed to take the Catholic Church out of the equation?

 

Is this the gist of what you were trying to say? If so, what does all this have to do with China? Are you suggesting that the Chinese people will follow the French model and take out the Chinese dictatorship if they're not happy with the way the Chinese government is performing? If so, where are the parallels?

 

I'm really trying my darned best, hit05, to understand your mindset. It's not easy and I apologize for taking pot shots at you. I was out of line and I admit it. But it's just so hard for me to understand where you're coming from and this frustration has made me say things that may be hurtful. But you must admit that you've said a couple of hurtful words yourself, not only to me but others in this thread.

 

Let's call it even. I don't hold anything against you but I just wish you could convey what you want to say in a more concise, straight to the point manner.

 

Peace bro....

[hit05]

I think I'll try to give this one a shot. What you're saying is the disenchantment of the French people with the Monarchy culminated with the French Revolution which began in 1789. You're also saying that the dictatorship of the French Jacobins, under the leadership of Maximilien Robespierre, put a muzzle on the Church to prevent it from criticizing the Revolution, particularly the period between September, 1793 and July, 1794, better known as the Reign of Terror in which tens of thousands of perceived enemies were executed, many by guillotine. Hence your reference to this era in French history as "bloody." And the "mythical Lady Liberty" which you refer to is the symbol we all know today as the Statue of Liberty which the French presented to the American people in view their own American Revolution. Is this what you meant to say? And that Lady Liberty, in your view, is a false God/false religion of freedom designed to take the Catholic Church out of the equation?

 

Is this the gist of what you were trying to say? If so, what does all this have to do with China? Are you suggesting that the Chinese people will follow the French model and take out the Chinese dictatorship if they're not happy with the way the Chinese government is performing? If so, where are the parallels?

 

I'm really trying my darned best, hit05, to understand your mindset. It's not easy and I apologize for taking pot shots at you. I was out of line and I admit it. But it's just so hard for me to understand where you're coming from and this frustration has made me say things that may be hurtful. But you must admit that you've said a couple of hurtful words yourself, not only to me but others in this thread.

 

Let's call it even. I don't hold anything against you but I just wish you could convey what you want to say in a more concise, straight to the point manner.

 

Peace bro....

 

 

Point is nationalism was nowhere before the French Revolution. Sovereignty rested with the monarchs or individuals. In the USA, it was not nationalism but democracy since the New World was subdivided into regions of smaller European countries of origin. Forcing nationalism in the USA will cause it to self destruct.

 

Whatever claims China got today is weak since it relies on issues of ancient sovereignty that Communism and Nationalism demolished or eradicated. Moreover, the Mongols who hold the world record for the largest empire ever did not even treat the local Chinese as their equal. They were discriminated or treated with contempt and banned from taking any public office. The Mongol conquerors established their rule by marriage with local chieftains in Europe where it spread.

[hit05]

I think the problem here is that China is not thinking but borrowing foreign ideas and producing a cheap version of the original. Its surrogates in MTC are pretending to be Filipinos or maybe they are Filipinos make believing to be Chinese - are presenting defective and out of touch information.

 

Again it is no use citing sources here since it seems your INTERNET is bugged and can no longer access 80% of what is available to the rest of the world. Even the propaganda office is crippled this way because they cannot use the best information before making important decisions.

[hit05]

And that Lady Liberty, in your view, is a false God/false religion of freedom designed to take the Catholic Church out of the equation?

 

 

Chill. This is a wonder for me also when I watched a video documentary (History Channel) about the French Revolution. Such things really happened with Lady Liberty becoming a PAGAN object of worship. But what do you expect? Wasn't the French reeling from starving poverty and ignorance of the commoner? The commoner overpowered the monarchs and eliminated the intelligentsia too.

 

The French may have given Americans the statue of Liberty but you need to understand that while the USA was successful, French democracy was a disaster. After a bloody reign of terror, a non-French Napoleon became military leader of the new nation that ended up in a counter revolution when Napoleon crowned himself emperor.

 

While the USA boasts of a PROVIDENTIAL constitution, there is paranoia of the French that countries loyal to the cross would eventually put them lining up the guillotine haunted them. Maybe what you want to dispute is the thought that while the USA saw God as key, the French confused religion with God and strike him out of nationalism.

Edited December 8, 2013 by hit05

[Larry]

we're mentioning the Mongols now?

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

Seems China blinked on this one..... http://news.yahoo.co...89--sector.html

 

 

China expresses regret over South Korea air defense zone

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/us/news/editorial/d/0c/d0c3eb8ca18907492a4b337b5cec5193.jpeg 3 hours ago

BEIJING (Reuters) - China expressed "regret" on Monday that South Korea had extended its air defense zone to partially overlap with a similar zone declared by Beijing two weeks ago that has raised regional tensions.

 

China's declaration of an air defense identification zonein the East China Sea that includes islands at the heart of a territorial dispute with Japan has triggered protests from the United States and its close allies Japan and South Korea.

 

South Korea said on Sunday that its move to expand its own zone would not infringe on neighboring countries' sovereignty.

 

"China expresses regret over South Korea's expansion of its air defense identification zone," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei told reporters at a regular press briefing.

 

China had immediately conveyed its concerns to South Korea and requested that Seoul handles the matter "safely and cautiously", Hong said.

 

Hong said the zones, which overlap in an area that includes a submerged reef, called the Suyan Rock by China and Ieodo by South Korea, did not constitute territorial airspace.

 

"There currently does not exist a territorial dispute between China and South Korea on this issue," Hong said, but noted that the reef was situated in portions of both countries' exclusive economic zones.

 

"This can only be resolved through maritime negotiations," Hong said of the economic zone issue, which puts at stake rights to potential underwater oil and gas reserves.

 

South Korea objected to China's November 23 move as unacceptable because of the reef, which has a research station platform built atop it and is controlled by Seoul.

 

Under the Chinese zone's rules, all aircraft have to report flight plans to Chinese authorities, maintain radio contact and reply promptly to identification inquiries.

 

The extension of South Korea's zone, which was originally established by the U.S. Air Force in 1951 during the Korean War, will not apply any restrictions to the operation of commercial flights when it takes effect on December 15.

 

(Reporting by Michael Martina; Editing by Alex Richardson)

Edited December 9, 2013 by oscartamaguchiblackface

[Bugatti Veyron]

China expressed regret? That's a first. Usually that's a line reserved for countries like the Philippines when China is angered.

 

Seems the very close relations between Japan, South Korea and the United States has somehow toned the rhetoric of China. All these countries needed to do is close ranks.

 

The Philippines, Taiwan, Vietnam and other nations opposed to China's claim that the entire China Sea belongs to them should likewise close ranks with these three countries. There is indeed strength in numbers.

[maxiev]

Deng Xiaoping, who advocated adherence to socialism, called it Marxism integrated with Chinese conditions, capitalism with a communist political system. Or something unwieldy like that. Its thrust is developing production capacity as the first step in achieving true Marxist communism.

 

I think understanding what motivates China, and what its mindset is, is key to predicting how it will operate. China needs to feed its people, and that seems a likely motive for some of the interesting moves it has been making in the US, for example, buying huge food production capacity.

 

 

 

 

 

Agree with the motivation part of this. But it isn't as if you are taking a radical position here.

I'm just calling it as I see it Ms. Dungeonbaby. It's been a long time since I've heard from you.

[jacuzzi]

Chill. This is a wonder for me also when I watched a video documentary (History Channel) about the French Revolution. Such things really happened with Lady Liberty becoming a PAGAN object of worship. But what do you expect? Wasn't the French reeling from starving poverty and ignorance of the commoner? The commoner overpowered the monarchs and eliminated the intelligentsia too.

 

The French may have given Americans the statue of Liberty but you need to understand that while the USA was successful, French democracy was a disaster. After a bloody reign of terror, a non-French Napoleon became military leader of the new nation that ended up in a counter revolution when Napoleon crowned himself emperor.

 

While the USA boasts of a PROVIDENTIAL constitution, there is paranoia of the French that countries loyal to the cross would eventually put them lining up the guillotine haunted them. Maybe what you want to dispute is the thought that while the USA saw God as key, the French confused religion with God and strike him out of nationalism.

 

Come to think of it, nationalism is sending the wrong signal to humans because it is anti-Christ.

 

Nationalism is fragmenting the world into smaller and distinct cultural islands. In contrast, all men are called into unity of body and spirit through Christ, Furthermore, Christianity is all about gaining FREEDOM from sin and corruption by following our MASTER liberator Jesus Christ so why must national heroes k*ll to gain freedom or attain the Truth? Are we not familiar with the idea that he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword?

 

National heroes become substitutes for Christ as examples of men we ought to follow, thus the faithful is encouraged to ignore Christ and derail his quest for genuine freedom in nationalism.

 

 

 

 

I suppose the American decision to make Rizal instead of Bonifacio our National Hero is in line with the function of faithfulness to Christ that we ought to emulate. Although there is no way that Rizal can be as reliable and perfect as Christ, at least we are all called to be thoughtful and expressive of national interests focusing on our weaknesses rather than demonstrating misplaced pride. Knowing thyself is the first step to freedom.

 

The NPA and the more militant groups embrace Bonifacio as their hero, but they have been killing their fellow Filipinos ever since. The NPA have become blind disciples of Mao are are now pretending to be Chinese in an effort to dominate the world by trampling on the USA. In other words, they have ditched the Philippines in favor of China where they are now espousing nationhood.

 

 

 

 

 

[tk421]

hokei... this is getting too close to Religion already...

[maxiev]

Come to think of it, nationalism is sending the wrong signal to humans because it is anti-Christ.

Hmm....a unique point of view....

[wackyracer]

Hmm....a unique point of view....

 

... best expounded in another thread

[tk421]

That will not halt China's expansion, merely delay it. Eventually we may end up in option 1, or option 6 (assimilation - a most likely scenario than the former).

[sonnyt111]

http://ph.news.yahoo...-153936547.html

 

Back to regular programming. In this article, a Chinese scholar said that there are 4 ways to settle territorial disputes and these are: war, UN Tribunal, negotiation and mediation.

 

If we take the first option, we'd get smoked by the Chinese. We obviously don't have the firepower to assert our territorial rights. If we take the second option, the Chinese may withdraw from the UNCLOS should the UN rule in favor of the Philippines, so this may be a dead end but still worth a try. The third and fourth options are, in my opinion, a dead end because it seems that the Chinese are stubborn and claim what they want to claim. So, I think a fifth option, US military intervention, in particular, is the only viable option that the Philippines has. A super carrier and its battle group pitching a tent for a number of months or, perhaps, rotating super carriers in the disputed territory would be enough to halt China's expansionist dreams.

I am personally in favor of the fifth option. Let the reds protest in the streets all they like. They're such a small minority anyway and it's a free country.

[sonnyt111]

That will not halt China's expansion, merely delay it. Eventually we may end up in option 1, or option 6 (assimilation - a most likely scenario than the former).

I really doubt the possibility of assimilation. If we had a very small population (say under 1 million people, assimilation would be possible. But we are a nation of about 100 million. How is China going to assimilate a country with so many people?

[tk421]

Not to that extreme. But possible willful annexation or annexation by neglect seems to be a possibility.

 

Remember, we used to have a Pugad island before. Then we got careless, so it was taken over by Vietnam.

Edited December 11, 2013 by tk421

[sonnyt111]

Not to that extreme. But possible willful annexation or annexation by neglect seems to be a possibility.

 

Remember, we used to have a Pugad island before. Then we got careless, so it was taken over by Vietnam.

Annexation cannot be forced upon the Philippines (or any part thereof) like what Japan did in WW 2. This is tantamount to war between China and the USA because our mutual defense treaty would have kicked in by China's forced annexation of any territory within the Philippines.

[tk421]

Willful annexation? Annexation by neglect? Can you elaborate on these two concepts?

 

Sure. We used to have an island called Pugad in Spratly's, but due to neglect of the soldiers stationed there (to attend a birthday party - this is true, btw). And we did allow China a foothold in the area by allowing them to build structures that later became military barracks.

 

Now about willful annexation - well... There are people in the Philippines that would rather sell out to China (for personal gains or maybe fear) than protect what's our's.

 

I've seen some comments in news sites where Pinoys were actually rooting for China in their dispute with Japan (rather enthusiastically, as if they were Chinese citizens themselves) . And there were people here in this very thread years ago, actually defending China's 'right' to the islands.

 

China is slowly eroding our borders, yet we haven't really taken steps to prevent that from happening, have we? Sure, we're asking the US to step in, but as the US recently said, they won't take sides in this dispute. And then there are those people who keeps blocking Permanent American presence in the PH.

[Bugatti Veyron]

Sure. We used to have an island called Pugad in Spratly's, but due to neglect of the soldiers stationed there (to attend a birthday party - this is true, btw). And we did allow China a foothold in the area by allowing them to build structures that later became military barracks.

 

Now about willful annexation - well... There are people in the Philippines that would rather sell out to China (for personal gains or maybe fear) than protect what's our's.

 

I've seen some comments in news sites where Pinoys were actually rooting for China in their dispute with Japan (rather enthusiastically, as if they were Chinese citizens themselves) . And there were people here in this very thread years ago, actually defending China's 'right' to the islands.

 

China is slowly eroding our borders, yet we haven't really taken steps to prevent that from happening, have we? Sure, we're asking the US to step in, but as the US recently said, they won't take sides in this dispute. And then there are those people who keeps blocking Permanent American presence in the PH.

I back read this thread from the start just now. Seems the thread started out quite heatedly with harsh words, snide remarks, and sarcastic comments thrown all around. Not unlike the posts I read nowadays on the PEaCE forum. Guess that can't really be helped sometimes when emotions run wild.

[sonnyt111]

If the Americans had access to Philippine ports on a regular basis, think of the protection they could provide with military equipment such as these lasers.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/us-military-reveals-laser-down-drones-mortars-225318179.html

 

 

 

[sonnyt111]

I wonder what would have happened had the two warships actually collided in the South China/West Philippine Sea. That surely would have heightened tensions in the area.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/u-chinese-warships-narrowly-avoid-collision-south-china-182435038.html

 

U.S., Chinese warships narrowly avoid collision in South China Sea

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. guided missile cruiser operating in international waters in the South China Sea was forced to take evasive action last week to avoid a collision with a Chinese navy ship maneuvering nearby, the U.S. Pacific Fleet said in a statement on Friday.

 

The incident on December 5 involving the USS Cowpens came at a time of heightened tensions between the United States and China following Beijing's declaration of an Air Defense Identification Zone in the East China Sea.

 

The Pacific Fleet statement did not offer details about what led to the near-collision. But it did say the incident underscored the need for the "highest standards of professional seamanship, including communications between vessels, to mitigate the risk of an unintended incident or mishap."

 

Beijing declared the air defense zone over the East China Sea late last month and demanded that aircraft flying through the area provide it with flight plans and other information.

 

The United States and its allies rejected the Chinese demand and have continued to fly military aircraft into the zone, which includes air space over a small group of islands claimed by China but currently administered by Tokyo.

 

In the midst of the tensions over the air defense zone, China deployed its only aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, to the South China Sea for maneuvers. Beijing claims most of the South China Sea and is involved in territorial disputes in the region with several of its neighbors.

 

(Reporting by David Alexander; Editing by Jim Loney)

 

 

 

[jacuzzi]

Sure, we're asking the US to step in, but as the US recently said, they won't take sides in this dispute. And then there are those people who keeps blocking Permanent American presence in the PH.

You like to juggle the facts.

 

The Truth is the NPA is asking the US not to take sides in the dispute. Its surrogates in government - and they are many -are blocking American presence in the country. Yet the US stated that its presence in the region is clearly to preserve the integrity of territorial boundaries and upkeep the security of the International Shipping Lanes.

 

 

 

 

The latest national hero and dad of the present Philippine President categorically declared his WISH to make China dominate the USA. Of course that is due to Ninoy's flawed idea of democracy and preference for SOCIALISM. In a democracy, there is really resistance to make anyone rule or dominate. But if the last World War was to be our basis, Socialism is all for domination and pursuit of power; consistent to the military behavior of China today. It is amazing that in this year's memory of Ninoy's TV videos omitted these portions where he is caught wishing for the replacement of the US by China as World Power and likewise his preference for Socialism.

 

 

Perhaps the networks ought to reply the dying Atty Jose Mari Velez' warnings about the deceit happening back then during Cory's administration.

 

 

 

In contrast, under the leadership of US Democracy, the free world allowed former enemies Japan and Germany to recover from the ruins of war and even dominate and share in the prosperity of mutual development and progress.

Edited December 14, 2013 by jacuzzi