South China/West Philippine Sea

[ProfilerX]

Thanks for correcting my view and idea. Now I know what kind of

Machines they are  

Edited November 15, 2013 by ProfilerX

[Larry]

I am addressing my question to heetseeker, the expert when it comes to military acquistions, politics within the military, and some current events relating to the deployment of air and water assets . Anyway my question revolves around the possibility of acquiring those US made Osprey which can fly like a plane but can land without the benefit of a runway, making it capable of landing in hard to reach barangays. The US is making use of this aircraft at this time to help in the distribution of goods, ferrying people to Cebu, etc. It is capable of bypassing all those debris filled roads thus getting the much needed food, water, bulding materials, shoes, medicines, doctors, army corp of engineers, etc. at the time these are needed most. Is having an aircraft such as the Osprey being considered at this time by the Philippine airforce?

 

 

the bell v22 Osprey currently sells at $68M each. This is the cost for a brand new unit, no idea on what a second hand one costs. But given that this is a fairly "new" model aircraft (I think the osprey first flew in the 80s) second hand costs would be around 30 to 40M give or take. might be over the budget but maybe heatseeker can shed more light into that.

 

but considering the role you described, conventional helicopters would do just fine. The only real advantage the osprey has, is its range as compared to regular helos. it's part plane after all.

[heatseeker0714]

the bell v22 Osprey currently sells at $68M each. This is the cost for a brand new unit, no idea on what a second hand one costs. But given that this is a fairly "new" model aircraft (I think the osprey first flew in the 80s) second hand costs would be around 30 to 40M give or take. might be over the budget but maybe heatseeker can shed more light into that.

 

but considering the role you described, conventional helicopters would do just fine. The only real advantage the osprey has, is its range as compared to regular helos. it's part plane after all.

 

Range, speed and payload capacity... Yup, conventional helos would address our needs... if we were to have one (in our dreams) the Osprey would be perfect for 1 basic mission the AFP needs to address aside from the Humanitarian Response role... Supplying regularly our boys in the Kalayaan Group of Islands, specially the Marines aboard BRP Sierra Madre...

 

i think the ospreys that first flew in the 80s-90s were the prototypes... but the ones certified as mission capable by the US DOD and put into active service was mid 2000s na...

 

$68Mil! see, it's expensive nga... that's 2 FA/50s with initial logistics package na...

 

If and this is a big if, the AFP would want rotary wing birds with more payload, range and speed, the best we can hope for are the CH-46 Sea Knights Unlce Sam's Misguided Children would retire in the next couple of years...

 

Basically, the Sea Knight is a Baby Chinook... Half the payload, range and i think speed of the Chinook...

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

No can do Sir... The US needs all the V22 Ospreys it can get its hands on, specially the Marines because the Ospreys are gonna replace the CH-46 Sea Knights the Leathernecks are currently using... Plus its a relatively new platform, i doubt that they'll put a couple in a surplus status... The first Osprey squadrons in USMC and USAF service just got activated i think 2002-2010...

 

The platform's so new that the US Defense Dept. this year ordered another 90+ units from Boeing...

 

then there's the issue of money... It's just too d@mn expensive.... It's a luxury we can't afford...

90+ units! Wow America is really loaded....courtesy of treasury bills purchased by China. He he he. The irony of it all....

[hit05]

90+ units! Wow America is really loaded....courtesy of treasury bills purchased by China. He he he. The irony of it all....

China paid for the massive losses in the financial crash that left huge investment houses to fall or close down. In a way China's thirst to dominate the markets crashed the system since it forced the closure of many businesses and sent a lot of wage earners to join the ranks of the unemployed.

 

In both WW1 and WW2, it was special bonds that financed the military buildup to end the war. What I mean is the defense contractors cannot be financed by Chinese investments since they normally accept payment in special priority bonds too. Even Germany used secret war bonds to finance the military buildup in WW2.

 

Of course the crash of the government system that promised payment for that bond issue may also mean no payment upon maturity - making such securities worthless. Thus if China were to declare war against the US and aims for its downfall, the US will have no choice but to cancel its debt obligations or nullify any claims of China.

Edited November 16, 2013 by hit05

[maxiev]

Not an expert... Just well read and have the advantage of having several members of my family serving in the military and police from Private to 3 Star Rank...

 

Basically its too expensive... I think its around 65Mil USD per bird... Flight hour cost pa, my guesstimate's in the 5-10K USD per flight hour.... We simply don't have that kind of dough to spend on that platform... Siguro we can but i think the entire AFP will ground to a halt if we do...

 

Nope, not being considered at this time by the PAF...

65 million USD = P 2 billion,860,000. The amounts stolen by Napoles is about P10 billion. If she didn't steal that money, in theory, the Philippine air force could have purchased about 3 of these birds. While expensive, it does have the capacity to carry a lot of cargo and doesn't even need a runway to land. It could land almost anywhere bringing the much needed food, personnel, water, and other supplies.

 

Thank God the Americans allowed the use of these air assets which performed admirably.

 

MOre than the help the Americans provided our unfortunate kababayans in Leyte and Samar, it has highlighted the incompetence of the Philippine government. The American presence here has also sent a signal to China that the Philippines will never be abandoned by the United States of America. "You've seen how we deployed our sea and air assets in our attempt to provide assistance to Filipinos and how we are devoted to the Philippines.

 

It's a veiled threat to the Chinese that the Philippines are our friends. Don't do anything against our friends which will only make us angry. China, which has been acting aggressively against the Philippines in recent months particularly in the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea will have to re-evaluate the close links between the Philippines and the United States of America.

If by some miracle, Americans are granted deep sea ports, airports etc. within the Philippines, then I believe our problems with the Chinese will cease once and for all. US warships patrolling the South China Sea will be a powerful deterrent against China's plans to push through with its claim that they own the entire China Sea.

[maxiev]

I wonder how we're going to pay back the kindness of the Americans and all the other international groups that came over and offered relief goods with out unfortunate brothers in Leyte and Samar. If a natural catastrophe occurs in another part of the world, I believe we should do out best to help out the country that is in dire straits. I am a firm believer of the concept "playing it forward" One good turn deserves another.

Edited November 17, 2013 by maxiev

[heatseeker0714]

65 million USD = P 2 billion,860,000. The amounts stolen by Napoles is about P10 billion. If she didn't steal that money, in theory, the Philippine air force could have purchased about 3 of these birds. While expensive, it does have the capacity to carry a lot of cargo and doesn't even need a runway to land. It could land almost anywhere bringing the much needed food, personnel, water, and other supplies.

 

Thank God the Americans allowed the use of these air assets which performed admirably.

 

MOre than the help the Americans provided our unfortunate kababayans in Leyte and Samar, it has highlighted the incompetence of the Philippine government. 1.) The American presence here has also sent a signal to China that the Philippines will never be abandoned by the United States of America. "You've seen how we deployed our sea and air assets in our attempt to provide assistance to Filipinos and how we are devoted to the Philippines.

 

It's a veiled threat to the Chinese that the Philippines are our friends. Don't do anything against our friends which will only make us angry. China, which has been acting aggressively against the Philippines in recent months particularly in the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea will have to re-evaluate the close links between the Philippines and the United States of America.

2.) If by some miracle, Americans are granted deep sea ports, airports etc. within the Philippines, then I believe our problems with the Chinese will cease once and for all. US warships patrolling the South China Sea will be a powerful deterrent against China's plans to push through with its claim that they own the entire China Sea.

 

1.) Not necessarily that the US will not abandon us, you have to remember, their interests are different from ours... What they can do is drag their feet to the point of them arriving here when its already too late... that's a de fact abandonment... Although yes it sends a signal to China that says, "If we can immediately deploy to the Philippines with such ease and speed to help in humanitarian ops, we can deploy much faster when it comes to waging war. They delayed the departure of the Carrier Battle Group from it's R&R port call in Hong Kong to take in food and water supplies to be distributed to the victims.

 

2.) Not by some miracle... it's already a given... ang pinag-uusapan na lang naman is the length of US Access to such facilities... The Yanks want 20-25 year access, while the National government due to domestic political considerations want only 10 years, 15 max access for the US... Also, the GRP wants equal access to these facilities once the Americans are put in charge of these which the Americans want for their exclusive use...

 

The GRP's demands in my opinion with regard to the 10-15 year access by the Yanks is realistic considering the "Nationalists" groups in our civil society, however, paano ka nga naman mag-iinvest sa isang lugar kung 10-15 years lang??? yun naman ang point ng mga Kano kaya they are pushing for 20-25 years tapos renew na lang ulit...

 

Isa pa, as a Filipino citizen, if you guys really respect us as allies, bakit wala kaming access sa facilities na yan once you get it??? ano to, Subic and Clark na naman??? 2013 na ngayon, not 1950s, dapat meron din kaming equal and unrestricted access jan...

[heatseeker0714]

90+ units! Wow America is really loaded....courtesy of treasury bills purchased by China. He he he. The irony of it all....

 

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2013/06/11/navy-to-buy-99-ospreys-in-6-5-billion-order/

 

Home » Afghanistan » Navy to Buy 99 Ospreys in $6.5 Billion Order

 

Navy to Buy 99 Ospreys in $6.5 Billion Order

 

By Richard Sisk Tuesday, June 11th, 2013 6:40 pm

Posted in Afghanistan, Air, Policy

 

 

The five-year contract through 2017, with an option for 22 more Ospreys, was expected to be announced Wednesday, according to James O’Donnell, a spokesman for the V-22 Joint Program Office at Naval Air Systems Command, which negotiates contracts with the manufacturers.

 

O’Donnell said the order will include 92 MV-22 Ospreys for the Marine Corps and seven CV-22 versions for the Air Force, with advanced radars and extra fuel tanks for Special Forces operations. The five-year bulk order was expected to save $1 billion over buying the Ospreys individually, O’Donnell said.

 

In April, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel announced in Tel Aviv the first foreign purchase of the Osprey for the Israeli special forces. The number of Ospreys Israel would receive was not announced but it was believed to be at least five for $70 million apiece, which would likely come out of the more than $3 billion in military assistance the U.S. gives Israel annually.

 

The Marines and Bell-Boeing have said that several other countries have shown interest in the Ospreys. The countries have not been named, but Middle East news reports have said that the United Arab Emirates has been haggling for more than a year with Bell over a purchase price, which now comes to about $70 million apiece.

 

Other countries that have had extended briefings on the Osprey include Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Italy, Brazil, Colombia, Singapore and Australia.

 

$70Mil a piece na pala sya...

 

92 units for the Jarheads...

07 units fir the Air FArce...

 

Unahan ko na kayo, somebody might ask with regard to the title of the article... The US Marine Corps and US Navy although separate and co-equal branches are under the supervision of the Secretary of the Navy who is the head of the Department of the Navy...

 

the Secretary of the Army heads the Department of the Army...

 

the Secretary of the Air Force heads the Department of the Air Force...

 

The 3 Secretaries report to the Secretary of Defense...

[Bugatti Veyron]

http://www.dodbuzz.c...-billion-order/

 

Home » Afghanistan » Navy to Buy 99 Ospreys in $6.5 Billion Order

 

Navy to Buy 99 Ospreys in $6.5 Billion Order

 

By Richard Sisk Tuesday, June 11th, 2013 6:40 pm

Posted in Afghanistan, Air, Policy

 

 

The five-year contract through 2017, with an option for 22 more Ospreys, was expected to be announced Wednesday, according to James O'Donnell, a spokesman for the V-22 Joint Program Office at Naval Air Systems Command, which negotiates contracts with the manufacturers.

 

O'Donnell said the order will include 92 MV-22 Ospreys for the Marine Corps and seven CV-22 versions for the Air Force, with advanced radars and extra fuel tanks for Special Forces operations. The five-year bulk order was expected to save $1 billion over buying the Ospreys individually, O'Donnell said.

 

In April, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel announced in Tel Aviv the first foreign purchase of the Osprey for the Israeli special forces. The number of Ospreys Israel would receive was not announced but it was believed to be at least five for $70 million apiece, which would likely come out of the more than $3 billion in military assistance the U.S. gives Israel annually.

 

The Marines and Bell-Boeing have said that several other countries have shown interest in the Ospreys. The countries have not been named, but Middle East news reports have said that the United Arab Emirates has been haggling for more than a year with Bell over a purchase price, which now comes to about $70 million apiece.

 

Other countries that have had extended briefings on the Osprey include Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Italy, Brazil, Colombia, Singapore and Australia.

 

$70Mil a piece na pala sya...

 

92 units for the Jarheads...

07 units fir the Air FArce...

 

Unahan ko na kayo, somebody might ask with regard to the title of the article... The US Marine Corps and US Navy although separate and co-equal branches are under the supervision of the Secretary of the Navy who is the head of the Department of the Navy...

 

the Secretary of the Army heads the Department of the Army...

 

the Secretary of the Air Force heads the Department of the Air Force...

 

The 3 Secretaries report to the Secretary of Defense...

No wonder they have the most powerful military in the world. Not to mention the level of intelligence gathering that the US is renowned for. Well it's a nation that is steeped in war. The history of the US is a history of conflict. The various Indian Wars starting in 1622; the American Revolution in the late 1700's; the Mexican-American War; the American Civil War (the bloodiest war Americans ever fought); the Spanish-American War; World War 1; World War 2; Korean War; Vietnam War; Gulf Wars 1 and 2.

 

Weapons used in each war also evolved. Each war provided the American government the opportunity to examine the effectiveness and weaknesses of the weapons used, spurring the development of new, improved weapons. Because of all the wars Americans fought, the level of sophistication of present day weapons is at an all time high. What we see today is the culmination of weapons development. And weapons development is still evolving. Imagine today, Americans can k*ll their enemies thousands of miles away using joysticks at home like it was some sort of computer game.

 

The production of military grade weapons is probably the only industry that isn't outsourced. Everything is made in the USA.

[heatseeker0714]

http://www.rappler.com/nation/44214-nancy-binay-yolanda-disater-response

 

Billions for jets but no money for sat phones?

BY CARMELA FONBUENA

POSTED ON 11/20/2013 11:14 PM | UPDATED 11/21/2013 12:31 AM

 

1.) The Philippines is buying 12 South Korean FA-50 fighter jets worth P18.9 billion. The jets are meant to establish minimum credible defense amid growing tension between Manila and Beijing over the West Philippine Sea. But Binay would rather buy "at least 7 brand new C-130 cargo planes, 51 Eurocopter HH-65 Dolphin search and rescue (SAR) helicopters, and one landing ship or a combination of these."

 

The Armed Forces only has 3 operational C130s. The acquisition of fighter jets is considered a done deal, however. President Benigno Aquino III was in South Korea in October to sign a defense MOU.

 

2.) Binay also want to divert the P3.4 billion budget for the purchase of 8 attack helicopters to the acquisition of 6 Sea King utility helicopters. The contract has already been awarded to winning bidder Italian aircraft manufacturer AgustaWestland, however.

 

 

The Daughter of the Dark Lord has spoken... Eto pinaka kinikilabutan ako... Making ligaw to the fu.ck.ing commies for 2016????

 

1.) We are going to buy an additional 2 C-130s next year, plus we have the ongoing Medium Lift Acquisition Program which scuttlebut from the Santolan Warriors said is a contest on the C-27J Spartan, CN-295 or CN-235. Then we also have the Light Lift Acquisition Program...

 

2.) The SOKOLS we bought from Poland is already being utilized in this role, plus the planned 21 UH-1 Hueys that we're gonna buy...

 

Tapos magtatanong ka pa kung ilang C-130 currently meron tayo eh halos isang linggong nakabandera na sa TV na 3 ang C-130s natin...

 

This is what we f@ck1ng get when we let the f@ck1ng masa vote to the Senate a f@ck1ng in house caregiver to her Lola na wala namang government or corporate experience man lang. Naging EA daw sya ng tatay nya, pero functioning EA ba sya??? For all we know EA lang sya sa payroll! :wacko:

 

P.S. I don't have anything against caregivers but there are just some things that really will piss off a straight thinking citizen...

Edited November 21, 2013 by heatseeker0714

[sonnyt111]

This article pertains to a recent incident in the East China Sea but since it involves China, I thought it might be appropriate to post it here. Seems the Americans deliberately defied Beijing's requirement that foreign aircraft identify themselves and accept Chinese instructions. Not much China can do but express its displeasure. Apparently the bully in the region isn't about to pick a fight with a nation more powerful than it militarily.

 

How I wish the Philippines had the military muscle to do the same.

http://news.yahoo.com/china-says-monitored-defiant-us-bomber-flights-085630776.html

 

BEIJING (AP) — China acknowledged Wednesday it let two American B-52 bombers fly unhindered through its newly declared air defense zone in the East China Sea despite its earlier threat to take defensive measures against unidentified foreign aircraft.

 

China's lack of any action suggested that it was merely playing out a diplomatic game to establish ownership over the area rather than provoke an international incident.The U.S. flights, which tested the Chinese zone for the first time since it was declared over the weekend, raised questions about Beijing's determination to enforce its requirement that foreign aircraft identify themselves and accept Chinese instructions.

 

The flights followed days of angry rhetoric and accusations over Beijing's move, designed to assert Chinese claims to a group of uninhabited islands controlled by Japan.

 

The U.S. and Japan have said they don't acknowledge the zone, and Taiwan and South Korea, both close to the U.S., also rejected it.

 

A Chinese Defense Ministry statement said the U.S. planes were detected and monitored as they flew through the area for two hours and 22 minutes. It said all aircraft flying through the zone would be monitored and that "China has the capability to exercise effective control over the relevant airspace."

 

View gallery."

Asked repeatedly about the incident at a regularly scheduled briefing, Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said it had been handled according to procedures laid out in the Saturday statement but offered no specifics.

 

"Different situations will be dealt with according to that statement," Qin said.

 

The U.S., which has hundreds of military aircraft based in the region, described the flights as a training mission unrelated to China's announcement of the zone. U.S. officials said the two unarmed B-52 bombers took off from their home base in Guam around midday and were in the zone that encompasses the disputed islands for less than an hour before returning to their base, adding the aircraft encountered no problems.

 

The bomber flights came after State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said China's move appeared to be an attempt to change the status quo in the East China Sea.

 

"This will raise regional tensions and increase the risk of miscalculation, confrontation and accidents," she told reporters.

 

View gallery."

Australia, meanwhile, said it called in the Chinese ambassador to express concern about the sudden zone declaration.

 

"The timing and the manner of China's announcement are unhelpful in light of current regional tensions, and will not contribute to regional stability," Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said in a statement.

 

Beijing's move fits a pattern of putting teeth behind its territorial claims and is seen as potentially leading to dangerous encounters depending on how vigorously China enforces it — and how cautious it is when intercepting aircraft from Japan, the U.S. and other countries.

 

China is sending its sole aircraft carrier to the South China Sea for its first sea trial, alarming the Philippines, which has conflicting claims with Beijing over parts of the region. Manila said the aircraft carrier's presence in the sea threatens regional stability.

 

Chinese reaction to the U.S. bomber flights was predictably angry, with some recalling the 2001 collision between a Chinese fighter and a U.S. surveillance plane in international airspace off China's southeastern coast — the kind of accident some fear China's new policy could make more likely. The Chinese pilot, Wang Wei, was killed in the crash and the U.S. crew forced to make a landing on China's Hainan island, where they were held for 10 days and repeatedly interrogated before being released.

 

Businessman Li Pengliang said the island dispute had heightened anti-Japanese sentiment, but doubted the chances of an open conflict."Let's not repeat the humiliation of Wang Wei. Make good preparations to counterattack," wrote Zheng Daojin, a reporter with the official Xinhua News Agency on his Twitter-like Weibo microblog.

 

"The public is outraged, but I still believe that the leaders in power are sober minded. They will not act on impulse," Li said.

 

Still others criticized the government's handling of what they termed a battle of psychological pressure and international public opinion.

 

"China is terrible at telling its side of the story. The silent one is the loser so why don't they better explain our response to the American bomber flight," wrote Hu Xijin, editor of the nationalist tabloid Global Times, on his blog.

 

It wasn't clear whether Beijing had anticipated the forceful response from Washington and others, or how well it is prepared to back up its demands.

 

Chinese scholars, who often serve as ad-hoc government spokesmen, criticized Tuesday's flights as a crude show of force and said Beijing wasn't looking for a fight.

 

"It's not that China didn't want to enforce its demands, but how do you expect China to react?" said Zhu Feng, an international security expert at Peking University.

 

 

[heatseeker0714]

This article pertains to a recent incident in the East China Sea but since it involves China, I thought it might be appropriate to post it here. Seems the Americans deliberately defied Beijing's requirement that foreign aircraft identify themselves and accept Chinese instructions. Not much China can do but express its displeasure. Apparently the bully in the region isn't about to pick a fight with a nation more powerful than it militarily.

 

How I wish the Philippines had the military muscle to do the same.

http://news.yahoo.com/china-says-monitored-defiant-us-bomber-flights-085630776.html

 

BEIJING (AP) — China acknowledged Wednesday it let two American B-52 bombers fly unhindered through its newly declared air defense zone in the East China Sea despite its earlier threat to take defensive measures against unidentified foreign aircraft.

 

China's lack of any action suggested that it was merely playing out a diplomatic game to establish ownership over the area rather than provoke an international incident.The U.S. flights, which tested the Chinese zone for the first time since it was declared over the weekend, raised questions about Beijing's determination to enforce its requirement that foreign aircraft identify themselves and accept Chinese instructions.

 

The flights followed days of angry rhetoric and accusations over Beijing's move, designed to assert Chinese claims to a group of uninhabited islands controlled by Japan.

 

The U.S. and Japan have said they don't acknowledge the zone, and Taiwan and South Korea, both close to the U.S., also rejected it.

 

A Chinese Defense Ministry statement said the U.S. planes were detected and monitored as they flew through the area for two hours and 22 minutes. It said all aircraft flying through the zone would be monitored and that "China has the capability to exercise effective control over the relevant airspace."

 

View gallery."

Asked repeatedly about the incident at a regularly scheduled briefing, Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said it had been handled according to procedures laid out in the Saturday statement but offered no specifics.

 

"Different situations will be dealt with according to that statement," Qin said.

 

The U.S., which has hundreds of military aircraft based in the region, described the flights as a training mission unrelated to China's announcement of the zone. U.S. officials said the two unarmed B-52 bombers took off from their home base in Guam around midday and were in the zone that encompasses the disputed islands for less than an hour before returning to their base, adding the aircraft encountered no problems.

 

The bomber flights came after State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said China's move appeared to be an attempt to change the status quo in the East China Sea.

 

"This will raise regional tensions and increase the risk of miscalculation, confrontation and accidents," she told reporters.

 

View gallery."

Australia, meanwhile, said it called in the Chinese ambassador to express concern about the sudden zone declaration.

 

"The timing and the manner of China's announcement are unhelpful in light of current regional tensions, and will not contribute to regional stability," Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said in a statement.

 

Beijing's move fits a pattern of putting teeth behind its territorial claims and is seen as potentially leading to dangerous encounters depending on how vigorously China enforces it — and how cautious it is when intercepting aircraft from Japan, the U.S. and other countries.

 

China is sending its sole aircraft carrier to the South China Sea for its first sea trial, alarming the Philippines, which has conflicting claims with Beijing over parts of the region. Manila said the aircraft carrier's presence in the sea threatens regional stability.

 

Chinese reaction to the U.S. bomber flights was predictably angry, with some recalling the 2001 collision between a Chinese fighter and a U.S. surveillance plane in international airspace off China's southeastern coast — the kind of accident some fear China's new policy could make more likely. The Chinese pilot, Wang Wei, was killed in the crash and the U.S. crew forced to make a landing on China's Hainan island, where they were held for 10 days and repeatedly interrogated before being released.

 

Businessman Li Pengliang said the island dispute had heightened anti-Japanese sentiment, but doubted the chances of an open conflict."Let's not repeat the humiliation of Wang Wei. Make good preparations to counterattack," wrote Zheng Daojin, a reporter with the official Xinhua News Agency on his Twitter-like Weibo microblog.

 

"The public is outraged, but I still believe that the leaders in power are sober minded. They will not act on impulse," Li said.

 

Still others criticized the government's handling of what they termed a battle of psychological pressure and international public opinion.

 

"China is terrible at telling its side of the story. The silent one is the loser so why don't they better explain our response to the American bomber flight," wrote Hu Xijin, editor of the nationalist tabloid Global Times, on his blog.

 

It wasn't clear whether Beijing had anticipated the forceful response from Washington and others, or how well it is prepared to back up its demands.

 

Chinese scholars, who often serve as ad-hoc government spokesmen, criticized Tuesday's flights as a crude show of force and said Beijing wasn't looking for a fight.

 

"It's not that China didn't want to enforce its demands, but how do you expect China to react?" said Zhu Feng, an international security expert at Peking University.

 

The Americans just b1tch3d slapped them in front of the whole world and they just $h1t in their pants... They didn't expect the Yanks would react so fast, kala nila porket kaliwat-kanan domestic problems ni Obama di na to makakakilos... Oh ano ngayon nangyari??? Nagmukha silang mga t@e...

 

In one fell swoop, they succeeded in uniting the Kimchi eaters, Sushi boys, Bacon dudes and even the Taiwanese... Talk about moronic decisions and shooting themselves in their foot...

 

Just like when the Ivans put them in their proper place.... http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-coast-guard-fires-chinese-boat-straining-friendship-723772

 

Russian Coast Guard Fires On Chinese Boat, Straining Friendship

By IBTimes Staff Reporter

on July 17 2012 12:39 PM

 

The Caviar boys FIRED AT and RAMMED their ship, resulting in 1 fisherman being flinged by the impact overboard and i think said fisherman was not recovered, oh well, i won't shed a tear for said Chink, one less poacher to rape our seas... what do you hear from the Chinks??? Aside from announcing this "unfortunate" incident in their state media, MUTE SILENCE...

 

Typical bully that they are, when they receive something special from someone bigger than them, in this case the Ivans, they just kept their mouths shut and slinked back in their miserable hole...

 

And how do they react to the b1tch $lapping they received from the Bacon guys, by sending their carrier in the West Philippine Sea...

 

If a country matures in the same fashion after 5,000 years of History and Culture, then i'm damn glad that The Philippines is only 115 years old...

Edited November 28, 2013 by heatseeker0714

[jacuzzi]

65 million USD = P 2 billion,860,000. The amounts stolen by Napoles is about P10 billion. If she didn't steal that money, in theory, the Philippine air force could have purchased about 3 of these birds. While expensive, it does have the capacity to carry a lot of cargo and doesn't even need a runway to land. It could land almost anywhere bringing the much needed food, personnel, water, and other supplies.

 

Thank God the Americans allowed the use of these air assets which performed admirably.

 

MOre than the help the Americans provided our unfortunate kababayans in Leyte and Samar, it has highlighted the incompetence of the Philippine government. The American presence here has also sent a signal to China that the Philippines will never be abandoned by the United States of America. "You've seen how we deployed our sea and air assets in our attempt to provide assistance to Filipinos and how we are devoted to the Philippines.

 

It's a veiled threat to the Chinese that the Philippines are our friends. Don't do anything against our friends which will only make us angry. China, which has been acting aggressively against the Philippines in recent months particularly in the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea will have to re-evaluate the close links between the Philippines and the United States of America.

If by some miracle, Americans are granted deep sea ports, airports etc. within the Philippines, then I believe our problems with the Chinese will cease once and for all. US warships patrolling the South China Sea will be a powerful deterrent against China's plans to push through with its claim that they own the entire China Sea.

 

Actually this happened in the wake of the Indonesian Tsunami, where only the US got capability to respond. The UN under Kofi Anan wanted to have aid in CASH instead but the US said they have changed their attitude as largest UN donor and will give this directly. Much mud slinging happened afterwards but it was the Indonesian government that thanked the US for that help - which was the only response moving at the time.The US already stated its policy that it will not allow China to take over international sea lanes, much so Philippine territory. Such moves will be a direct assault to American Interests. Thus even if all media outlets were controlled and made to paint a false image that we were all Chinese as it is being propagated, such declaration will not be the basis for US response.

 

 

[Larry]

china got served

[Mr. Potatohead]

I believe that the USA may be the only one that is able to stop the aggression of China. USA+Japan+Taiwan+ASEAN allies may put into hold the aggressiveness of China. The US must be granted bases and access to the country. One of the reasons for their departure from PHL is the expiration of the agreement and that there exists a waaay lot of prostitution dens near the bases, but then, it is the prostitutes who wants money and they are the ones who are approaching the military personnels.

 

 

If any confrontation will arise due to China, we, the PHL people may bear the brunt force of the war. FYI, majority of the Chinese-Filipinos in PHL, me included, fought with China during the civil war. We lost, therefore fled China to Taiwan, PHL, USA, Vietnam, Singapura and other countries. When war will erupt, I will put in faith that the Filipinos and the Chinese in PHL will join in fighting china aggressor.

 

FYI, the chinese you see speaking fluent filipinos are the ones am talking about. The Chinese not speaking in filipinos are mainland chinese who just went here for business and others.

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

china got served

They sure did. And as heatseeker correctly pointed out, they sh^tted in their pants. The Americans really nipped the problem in the bud. The Chinese didn't even know what hit them.

[Bugatti Veyron]

What's a bit worrying is the fact that the Chinese find "saving face" an extremely important value. China definitely lost face in this incident and may resort to some crazy/irrational response to regain lost face.

[heatseeker0714]

What's a bit worrying is the fact that the Chinese find "saving face" an extremely important value. China definitely lost face in this incident and may resort to some crazy/irrational response to regain lost face.

 

Bad for us in the short run, but if you look at it in the long term, good for us...

 

China's obsession of ALWAYS saving face ang magpapabagsak sa kanila, that's their weakness...

 

They just can't seem to accept that the world ain't perfect, that you gotta "Lose Face" a couple of times down the road and accept it humbly for other folks to treat you seriously and respect you for what you are...

 

Parang yung USSR lang yan... Reagan pretty much figured out their weakness... MASS... The USSR always wanted to have the MOST NUMBER of ICBMS, jets, ships, subs, tanks... They wanted to have the BIGGEST Car factory, tractor factory, condom factory and whatnot...

 

They always wanted to have the biggest d1ck in anything and everything...

 

It took a B Movie actor to point out that MASS, or SIZE isn't everything... The Gottverdamt Ivans bankrupted themselves into a pissing match with good old Ronnie...

 

Let them Chinks "Save Face" all the time and one day, we'll wake up and the whole world will be laughing at them...

 

Let's just do what them Chinks did for the past 40 years... Lay-low, bide our time, cultivate our alliances, minimize corruption, straighten out government and in no time, lalakas din tayo... wag lang tayong atat na atat...

 

Pinoy kasi panay short term lang iniisip, milagro na kung sumagi sa utak yung medium term... Long-term pa kaya...

 

But like I said, let them "Save Face"... if we can, we should encourage them pa nga eh... ahehehehehehe.... ;)

[hit05]

What's a bit worrying is the fact that the Chinese find "saving face" an extremely important value. China definitely lost face in this incident and may resort to some crazy/irrational response to regain lost face.

 

Wrong, what China has been doing and by claiming that the Philippines is a part of China is already CRAZY and IRRATIONAL.

[hit05]

 

 

If a country matures in the same fashion after 5,000 years of History and Culture, then i'm damn glad that The Philippines is only 115 years old...

 

 

I have thought of this innocently until I read the history of how China was COLONIZED by a smaller country - Manchuria. Basically the weakness of the mainlander was his culture. It easily succumbed to the superior ways of the Manchus who introduced fashion sense like pig tails. The normal Chinese just looked awful and the captivating looks of the Manchus made them admire and trust the foreigners. Yes, China was not overcome by weapons but by cultural admiration FOR its neighbor, Manchuria - a land where the population are more close resembling the Japanese than Chinese.

 

Thus repair of the damaged CULTURE of China was what the Cultural Revolution was about. Yet in the scheme of things, the outcome of this artificially crafted cultureby RE-EDUCATION was an out of touch people who cannot work without supervision and management, making the mainland the largest and cheapest labor force in the world.

Edited November 29, 2013 by hit05

[Larry]

China can build all the new tech they want, but they still won't know how to use it.

 

That's the big tactical difference between the US and China.

 

China has 1 aircraft carrier, but don't have the necessary doctrine and protocols in place to successfully use it in blue water scenarios. I can't even say if they know how to use the carrier as a force projection element, in the same way that the US utilizes the various carrier groups as the ultimate force projection elements.

 

---

 

China, should they follow their policy of saving face until the end, will be pushed into a conflict they don't want because of this. Especially now that they're enforcing their policies selectively.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Larry

[jacuzzi]

What's a bit worrying is the fact that the Chinese find "saving face" an extremely important value. China definitely lost face in this incident and may resort to some crazy/irrational response to regain lost face.

 

The damage has been done and indeed the neighbors of China are now "face saving" and are doing crazy and irrational responses. There is news report that the Japanese and the South Koreans are spearheading an assault already to drive off China from International sea lanes.

 

After diplomacy FAILS, military warfare happens. In military conflicts, it is no longer about saving face anymore but rather about life saving activities, to each his own - or survival of the fittest.

[Larry]

how are the neighbors of China "face saving?"

 

especially when they were the ones who were violated?

 

and we need a source for this

 

There is news report that the Japanese and the South Koreans are spearheading an assault already to drive off China from International sea lanes.

 

especially when all news reports indicate that Japan and Korea are trying to resolve this diplomatically.

 

By your words an assault is meant to imply direct military action, and again common sense tells me that this is something that both Japan and Korea are unwilling to commit to at this stage. (it also doesn't make sense, an assault on SEA lanes for the imposition of an AIR identification zone? so you're basically telling us that Japan and Korea are dispatching ships to defend air space?)

 

If it were true, we would need a verifiable source for your comment, since this would transform the current situation significantly via escalation by both Japan and Korea. It would probably be an act of war too.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Larry

[Larry]

I believe that the USA may be the only one that is able to stop the aggression of China. USA+Japan+Taiwan+ASEAN allies may put into hold the aggressiveness of China. The US must be granted bases and access to the country. One of the reasons for their departure from PHL is the expiration of the agreement and that there exists a waaay lot of prostitution dens near the bases, but then, it is the prostitutes who wants money and they are the ones who are approaching the military personnels.

 

well prostitutes and women who gravitate toward military camps, is an ancient "tradition". It's been happening since Alexander the Great's time, and it's happening domestically too. You'll see more women near the forward military bases of the Philippine Army, so it's now new. Soldiers need loving, and women are somehow magnetically drawn towards men in uniform.

 

 

If any confrontation will arise due to China, we, the PHL people may bear the brunt force of the war. FYI, majority of the Chinese-Filipinos in PHL, me included, fought with China during the civil war. We lost, therefore fled China to Taiwan, PHL, USA, Vietnam, Singapura and other countries. When war will erupt, I will put in faith that the Filipinos and the Chinese in PHL will join in fighting china aggressor.

 

as someone from the mainland (which I suppose you are judging from your posts, if not then I apologize), can you give us your insight into all of this? Why do you think China is doing this? It would be great to see it from a different vantage point, especially from someone who's actually experienced the Chinese government and seen how they operate.