South China/West Philippine Sea

[dungeonbaby]

Our new Warship, the BRP Gregorio Del Pilar just had a stand-off with 2 Chinese Ships off the coast of Zambales

http://www.philstar.com/nation/article.aspx?publicationSubCategoryId=63&articleId=795956

 

Now what's next

 

Apparently the Chinese warships ordered ours to leave the Disputed Seas ....

 

maybe they should send in Domingo Lee. see what he says.

 

but seriously, why the Chinese were ever allowed to get a foothold here and build a concrete structure on Mischief Reef is beyond me.

[dungeonbaby]

We just don't have the smilitary might to enforce our claim.

 

I may be mistaken but I remember something about our government allowing them to build some sort of a lighthouse in the area. That's like giving them license to build other things.

 

Not only are the Chinese in disputed waters, they've taken illegal catch like giant clams and coral. The environmentalists should be having a fit, but maybe they're too busy protesting SM Baguio.

Edited April 13, 2012 by dungeonbaby

[wendy testicleger]

I may be mistaken but I remember something about our government allowing them to build some sort of a lighthouse in the area. That's like giving them license to build other things.

 

Not only are the Chinese in disputed waters, they've taken illegal catch like giant clams and coral. The environmentalists should be having a fit, but maybe they're too busy protesting SM Baguio.

 

Ipadala natin ang Pinoy Environmentalists vs. The navy of the People's Republic of China!!

[dungeonbaby]

Does this mean that our government agreed to them building a lighthouse? Or did our government just allow them coz it just didn't have the military wherewithal to stop them from building structures?

 

the former. a lighthouse was needed, we couldn't build it, and guess who volunteered to build one. now the latter is true with the other structures. anyone regretting raising the rent on the US Military and essentially kicking them out now?

 

Ipadala natin ang Pinoy Environmentalists vs. The navy of the People's Republic of China!!

 

not at all a bad idea.

[dos8dos]

maybe they should send in Domingo Lee. see what he says.

 

but seriously, why the Chinese were ever allowed to get a foothold here and build a concrete structure on Mischief Reef is beyond me.

 

maybe because its part of the DEAL with the Joint Seismic Agreement signed under glory

 

we are better off sending glory in the area to placate the chinese intruders

[dungeonbaby]

maybe because its part of the DEAL with the Joint Seismic Agreement signed under glory

 

that's what i remember.

 

It still would have been nice if the US bases were around. At least we won't need to worry about the Chinese having a stand-off with us. Furthermore, it would be comforting to know that there is at least a super carrier guarding our shores.

 

yup.

 

with the philippines backing away in the recent stand-off, its tail between its legs and not even confiscating the illegal catch those fishermen had (!), we've just proven to the Chinese we're all bluster and no balls.

 

and with the spratlys having an estimated 240 billion barrels of oil (enough to put us up there right under saudi arabia) china is not going to care about blowing up a little sissy country like us to get to the prize.

[dungeonbaby]

in the Spratlys, it's all about who can enforce its will on who. The Chinese clearly won that round with a bounty of sharks and corals. At this point, we can't do anything except cry for help to our one-time colonizer and forever protector. But looking at the bright side, we'll have war games in the Spratlys with them to harass the Chinese.

 

yes except we might look at the example taiwan has set.

 

taiwan is a small country, rich yes, but small. when it encounters a chinese vessel where the chinese aren't supposed to be, they just ram that boat to pieces and say oops, sorry 'bout that. now i admit, taiwan puts a lot of money in china so china's not likely to blast taiwan to smithereens but still we've got to show a little balls when we're in the right. china signed a treaty to protect endangered marine life, they were in the wrong and they knew it. you think the international community would not have had our backs if we stood our ground?

[sandy51]

History – Vietnam was able to kick out the French in 1954, and later, the Americans in 1975. Then in February 1979, China invaded northern Vietnam to “teach” Vietnam to stay out of Cambodia. Unfortunately, I think it was China that was taught, so much so that it was out of Vietnam by March 1979. Vietnam, on the other hand, only left Cambodia by 1989.

 

A relatively small army like Israel has, was able to defeat the combined forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria in just six days.

 

So it may not just be a question of military might

 

The Spratly Islands, may however, be more complicated as so many countries aside from the Philippines (i.e., China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia) each have their own historical basis for a claim

 

 

[dungeonbaby]

Well, we may gain sympathy but I think the only counties who would stand by us at the moment and actually do something about it would be the US and our ASEAN allies who are in the same predicament as us. Wait, does Taiwan really put money in China? I thought they were bitter rivals. Doesn't China recognize Taiwan as a renegade province?

 

Taiwan is China's biggest investor. Yes, they are still bitter enemies politically.

 

 

History – Vietnam was able to kick out the French in 1954, and later, the Americans in 1975. Then in February 1979, China invaded northern Vietnam to "teach" Vietnam to stay out of Cambodia. Unfortunately, I think it was China that was taught, so much so that it was out of Vietnam by March 1979. Vietnam, on the other hand, only left Cambodia by 1989.

 

A relatively small army like Israel has, was able to defeat the combined forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria in just six days.

 

So it may not just be a question of military might

 

The Spratly Islands, may however, be more complicated as so many countries aside from the Philippines (i.e., China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia) each have their own historical basis for a claim

 

True, in your examples it wasn't a question of military might. It was other forces at work.

 

The US lost its stomach for the Vietnam war, largely due to internal pressure and the inability to bomb as a consequence of that pressure. One photograph of a bombed hospital and the American public loses the heart to continue. I don't think China would succumb to similar pressures, unfortunately.

 

Israel succeeded in defending itself against 5 formidable enemies, adding Iraq and Saudi Arabia to your example. Israel was disadvantaged militarily and yet they threw back their attackers in six days, yes. But military tacticians don't even try to explain that one, that's as close to a miracle as you can get. I'm not sure we can look to Israel as an example seeing as we're not even determined to defend ourselves from obvious affronts to our sovereignty.

 

I'm actually beginning to see nick fury's point about not having options except to cry.

[SaintPeter5858]

Pls don't be shy, ask for American help... NOW!!!

[sandy51]

Taiwan is China's biggest investor. Yes, they are still bitter enemies politically.

 

 

 

 

True, in your examples it wasn't a question of military might. It was other forces at work.

 

The US lost its stomach for the Vietnam war, largely due to internal pressure and the inability to bomb as a consequence of that pressure. One photograph of a bombed hospital and the American public loses the heart to continue. I don't think China would succumb to similar pressures, unfortunately.

 

Israel succeeded in defending itself against 5 formidable enemies, adding Iraq and Saudi Arabia to your example. Israel was disadvantaged militarily and yet they threw back their attackers in six days, yes. But military tacticians don't even try to explain that one, that's as close to a miracle as you can get. I'm not sure we can look to Israel as an example seeing as we're not even determined to defend ourselves from obvious affronts to our sovereignty.

 

I'm actually beginning to see nick fury's point about not having options except to cry.

 

Natawa naman ako dito. But yes, baka nga all we can do is cry. Sabi nga sa isang song sa Les Miserables (I Dreamed A Dream) "But there are dreams that cannot be. And there are storms we cannot weather"

[dungeonbaby]

Natawa naman ako dito. But yes, baka nga all we can do is cry. Sabi nga sa isang song sa Les Miserables (I Dreamed A Dream) "But there are dreams that cannot be. And there are storms we cannot weather"

 

 

(why are people waxing poetic all of a sudden. not that i'm complaining)

Edited April 17, 2012 by dungeonbaby

[sandy51]

 

 

(why are people waxing poetic all of a sudden. not that i'm complaining)

 

 

Hindi naman sa ganun. Natuwa lang ako duon sa comment na all we can do is cry. Sometimes mahirap tangapin ang katotohanan. Peace

[sandy51]

But seriously, if push comes to shove, I would place my bet with the 15th Strike Wing guys. They could be based in Pagasa and they have planes with low IR signatures against heat seeking missiles. Highly improbable that China would have fighter aircraft to intercept too. Downside is that they would be very vulnerable to ant-aircraft fire. But those guys have been there, so they know the consequences. The bigger problem, however, would be, who would give the order to fire. Baka after they call "tally" mag "bingo" na sila, wala pang word kung ano ang gagawin. This was the experience of the F-27 Maritime guys of long ago.

[heatseeker0714]

But seriously, if push comes to shove, I would place my bet with the 15th Strike Wing guys. They could be based in Pagasa and they have planes with low IR signatures against heat seeking missiles. Highly improbable that China would have fighter aircraft to intercept too. Downside is that they would be very vulnerable to ant-aircraft fire. But those guys have been there, so they know the consequences. The bigger problem, however, would be, who would give the order to fire. Baka after they call "tally" mag "bingo" na sila, wala pang word kung ano ang gagawin. This was the experience of the F-27 Maritime guys of long ago.

 

you put the 15th SW in Pag-asa and you achieve NOTHING positive. you would just up the ante and lose in the end (Moral high ground and Militariraly). the planes of the 15th are all either turboprops or helis, my point being, they can never outrun a ship based SAM of which other claimant countries have in significant numbers.

 

What would be more positive is basing Civilian assets in Pag-asa like PCG and BFAR Ships to enforce Maritime Law and our Fisheries Code and a chopper from the PAF SAR Group to assist anybody in distress in the area so that we wouldn't look like thugs who don't think of the consequences of our actions.

 

The PRC lately has been espousing their 5,000+ years of civilization compared to our young nation but their actions show that in 5,000+ years, when it comes to their interests, their actions are no better than your ordinary thug along Lacson avenue waiting to pounce on unsuspecting UST students.

 

We have to match the PRC's thuggery with Diplomatic Finesse coz that's our only option in the WPS. That's why even if i hate the guy, i admire abnoy in pulling out the BRP Goyo and replacing it with PCG assets, thereby "Civilianizing" the issue at hand. That's the rationale of the "White on White and Gray on Gray" of the DND. If the PRC uses "Civilian" ships, we use the PCG, if they use the PLAN, we use the PN so that world opinion is on our side.