Team Pilipinas Basketball

[launchpad]

im voting he could be an overrated basketball by what he is showing right now.

 

mas tanggap ko pa kung sasabihin nyang mas marami syang matututunan sa national team and in the end mag benefit din hindi lang ang bansa sa kanya kundi ung san man team sya pumunta

[kanski]

the way i see it, he may be an overrated player, but he's an overrated player that the rp team (or any team for that matter) needs and would gladly have. it's the 'you can't teach height' philosopy at work here.

[launchpad]

should i apply the marlou aquino strategy here??

 

a big man who does the under kili kili shot! or an ej feihl . . . . just to name a few. yeah you cant teach height but if you just insert this kind of players to make the team a mockery no wonder our nations basketball team is where it is today.

 

hindi pa rin nagbabago tingin ko, some of you say his a division 1 player. ok i think since asia basketball even international could be somewhat lower level compare to a ncaa division 1 wouldnt you be able to at least show some of your stuff? sa kaka training nya sa US wala syang na develop na move kahit up and under move or kaya isa move na mapapa wow ka e.

 

buti pa ung wright e kahit second division player dinala team nya. baka sabihin mo iba sya compare mo na si cortez na second division din sa US nakita mo ung pano mag laro sya sa dlsu ? isang quarter gagawa sya ng 20 pts and puts his team on his shoulders.

 

alapag . . . . nonoy castillo . . . buti pa ito kahit nung umpisa humataw e kaso nabasa na laro nya kaya nung huli hindi na maka hataw.

[kanski]

should i apply the marlou aquino strategy here??

 

yes you may.

 

it would be lovely for us to be able to put in exceptional players in all five positions. unfortunately, with the dearth of quality big men in the country, we can't. so we settle for mediocre big men just to man the 4 and 5 slots. kumbaga, alangan namang puro guardia ipadala natin, kahit na lahat sila ay alan caidic pa.

 

case in point: marlou and ej. they may look like bumbling idiots when they play (ej in particular), but they served their purpose. they were placed in the roster of former phil teams to fill the role of foil against the other squad's biggies. you may argue their success in so doing, but i contend that they will always do a better job at this vs. smaller players.

 

if it's any consolation, after watching games wherein japeth played, i'm convinced that he's not as good as advertised. well, not as good as we've expected, or hoped at least.

[cheeselogger]

just to butt in, I don't know about you guys but it might be too harsh and too early to compare Japeth with the "failures" of ex-RP team big men like EJ and Marlou. Marlou did an ok job as a post presence though he did get pushed around quite a bit and EJ really didn't have much going for him except his 7' frame. Japeth's still young and still has more time to improve...

 

as anyone can see, Japeth moves a with whole lot more ease for a full blooded pinoy with his height compared to other "big men" the Philippine Team has ever had. and there I think is the overrating/hype comes from. a lot of fans and analysts see a lot of potential in Japeth hence the hype/expectations. he can't just "float" in games and play like a wing man when obviously he's being brought in as a big man. he should take advantage of his athleticism but he needs to solidify first his big man game to be proven as a RP Team asset...

 

IMHO

[peithe]

The fact remains that with the towering opponents, we also need someone with size. Fortunately or unfortunately, we have players standing 6'9 and irregardless of the talent they would have to be included for consideration in the team for whatever purpose it serves.

 

Look back 10 years ago, China had Shan Tao. Japan too had this EJ-like 7 footer who only stays in the shaded lane to intimidate. This guy can't even jump but he's there since he's big. Don't forget that both S. Korea had one too.

[launchpad]

cheeselogger,

 

the fact that he knows he needs to learn more is a given to him ( i think lang kse for me he would truly benefit from toroman with his international exposure mas marami alam to cguro sa pag dedevelop ng players kaysa sa coaches sa pilipinas )

 

but we have to face also what kind of attitude he is showing, kse i do believe improving also includes breaking some old habits most of them bad. if hindi sya natutuwa or kaya ayaw nya ayan baka bumalik na lang yan ng bk

 

no matter what you say training in the US is much more equip than here sa pinas. Big Man training, kahit man lang nga foot work e parang wala e.

Edited September 4, 2009 by launchpad

[bill_262003]

<snip>

if i were japeth, he should try to honor the pba muna or worked out something like play a year then ask if he can play for the nationals the next year, while his contract should made a clause since he have a stint with the nationals he will honor his contract after the 2012 ( tama ba itong year ). tingin ko naman pwedeng pag usapan yan, just lagay nila ans sabihin ng malinaw. contract signing can be negotiated naman d ba, parang sa draft hindi porket sinabi gusto mo ung player e hindi na pwede i draft ng ibang teams ung player na un kung nauna sila pipili kaysa sau.

 

mangyayari lang dyan e kung priority nya ung nationals edi go, para lang may safety net sya kung hindi mag work out yan may pba pa rin sya. kso syempre rookie salary pa rin makukuha nya even though naka ilan taon na sya sa pba kso hindi lang naglalaro dahil sa nationals

 

Actually he could do a David Robinson. David Robinson was drafted by the San Antonio Spurs in 1987 draft.. but Spurs had to wait for 2 years before they were able to play David Robinson since he had to honor his commitment to the Navy (David went to the Naval Academy in college).

 

After his 2 years service were up, there were even speculations that he would sign up with another team but he ended up with Spurs and the rest is history as he became one of the greatest players in NBA history.

 

Just to clarify things, a draft is a risk on the part of the team. Drafting someone means you reserve the right to his first year in the league. In fact, there are a lot of players drafted (in the NBA and even in the PBA) who are not signed to play. Some would sit out the first year (with no team) then enter the league a year after.

 

Again, as somebody pointed out this is like a job offer which the applicant did not want. As long as Japeth does not play for another PBA team on the first year, then I think BK and the PBA cannot do anything about it. A lifetime ban, would also be too much. The league rules should be fair to both the team and the players.

[catsumhoto]

whether forhisconvenient or notjapeth should honor his word.... i am in favor of a ban to set an example.... look at wang zhi zhi he was ban to play for the national team for his refusal to return and train with the team... he was onl allowed to represent china again after countless public apology made by wang..... to avoid such a sceanario japeth should honor his words....

[Agent_mulder]

Actually he could do a David Robinson. David Robinson was drafted by the San Antonio Spurs in 1987 draft.. but Spurs had to wait for 2 years before they were able to play David Robinson since he had to honor his commitment to the Navy (David went to the Naval Academy in college).

 

After his 2 years service were up, there were even speculations that he would sign up with another team but he ended up with Spurs and the rest is history as he became one of the greatest players in NBA history.

 

Just to clarify things, a draft is a risk on the part of the team. Drafting someone means you reserve the right to his first year in the league. In fact, there are a lot of players drafted (in the NBA and even in the PBA) who are not signed to play. Some would sit out the first year (with no team) then enter the league a year after.

 

Again, as somebody pointed out this is like a job offer which the applicant did not want. As long as Japeth does not play for another PBA team on the first year, then I think BK and the PBA cannot do anything about it. A lifetime ban, would also be too much. The league rules should be fair to both the team and the players.

 

From what I know iba sa PBA, if a team drafts a player its either he signed-up with them or the team's rights to that particular player traded to another team. May case noon wherein umayaw ang isang player sa team na kumuha sa kanya, if i remember correctly, during the early 90's Victor Pablo was drafted by Ginebra, since noong time na 'yun mababa talaga salary ng players sa said team he asked to be traded to another team which Ginebra did. With regards naman doon sa mga players drafted by teams but was not signed, well it happens pero 'di sila No. 1 pick overall that Japeth is. Ginebra also drafted Egay Billiones way back in '99 but he did not signed up with them pero 'yung rights ng said team sa kanya remained and i think that the rights was eventually traded to Fedex (correct me if i'm wrong)..

Edited September 4, 2009 by Agent_mulder

[launchpad]

catsumhoto,

 

wang situation is different, even before signing or letting wang play in the nba there was already a agreement between the dallas mavs and the chinese govt./ chinese govt and wang that no matter what they will allow wang to play for the country in the off season or if schedule has conficts the chinese country comes first. in other words he needs to come back to china for the national team.

 

aside from that since he was the first, grabe ung effort ng dallas under don nelson also promise that they would develop wang and give him playing time. as you can see tingin ko sya rin ata ung coach ni shawn bradley and the big soft guy was given plays for him, wang was given plays mostly for open jumpers.

 

kaya nga when wang refuse to come back to china which i do believe galit ung chinese govt and gave calls to cuban wherein he is urge to force wang to come back. since hindi nya ma control ung situation dahil matigas ulo ni wang they just traded him to miami instead.

 

kaya nga nung nangyari prodigal son si wang, sobrang higpit nila kayo yao. to the point that his nba contract was even signed in behalf of the chinese govt saying that 80% or 90% ata ng salary nya mapupunta sa govt. hindi sa kanya

Edited September 4, 2009 by launchpad

[Guest megalodon]

just to butt in, I don't know about you guys but it might be too harsh and too early to compare Japeth with the "failures" of ex-RP team big men like EJ and Marlou. Marlou did an ok job as a post presence though he did get pushed around quite a bit and EJ really didn't have much going for him except his 7' frame. Japeth's still young and still has more time to improve...

 

as anyone can see, Japeth moves a with whole lot more ease for a full blooded pinoy with his height compared to other "big men" the Philippine Team has ever had. and there I think is the overrating/hype comes from. a lot of fans and analysts see a lot of potential in Japeth hence the hype/expectations. he can't just "float" in games and play like a wing man when obviously he's being brought in as a big man. he should take advantage of his athleticism but he needs to solidify first his big man game to be proven as a RP Team asset...

 

IMHO

With EJ Feihl being a failure with the national team, I agree. I don't consider Marlou a failure though. Marlou was our defensive anchor in the 1998 Asian Games. He made life miserable for Wang Zhizhi but we lost that game to China by 8 points. That 1998 team was one of the best we sent after the 1990 team. We won the bronze in that Asian Games.

[djlo]

Guys Guys HOPE is not yet lost (at least for the moment) too early to tell lets give him 2 years yes 2 years come in for the next qualifying tourney.......i say we have a chance a big shot at chance if the gilas will follow deyr programme..............japeth is a diamond found in the rough, full of promise and he will be under the guidance of toroman well who knows di ba......ehadadi was an big idiot b4 nag dunk pa nga yun dito sa pinas and tried to jump at free throw line ( wat a sore looser but dat was b4 ) look at him now.....iba na si EHADADI ngayon.......kaya rite move din talaga ang ginawa ni japeth who know baka jan mascout pa sya ng nba who knows di ba........just excited bout the line wid lutz, pringle, giles and the fil italian and rest of the crew i think we have longshot but at least its still a shot!!!!!

[Guest megalodon]

Guys Guys HOPE is not yet lost (at least for the moment) too early to tell lets give him 2 years yes 2 years come in for the next qualifying tourney.......i say we have a chance a big shot at chance if the gilas will follow deyr programme..............japeth is a diamond found in the rough, full of promise and he will be under the guidance of toroman well who knows di ba......ehadadi was an big idiot b4 nag dunk pa nga yun dito sa pinas and tried to jump at free throw line ( wat a sore looser but dat was b4 ) look at him now.....iba na si EHADADI ngayon.......kaya rite move din talaga ang ginawa ni japeth who know baka jan mascout pa sya ng nba who knows di ba........just excited bout the line wid lutz, pringle, giles and the fil italian and rest of the crew i think we have longshot but at least its still a shot!!!!!

You have a point. If Toroman could transform a group of mediocre players into champions, I don't see any reason why our collegiate players who are defiinitely more talented than the Iranians can't be made champions too.

[peithe]

You have a point. If Toroman could transform a group of mediocre players into champions, I don't see any reason why our collegiate players who are defiinitely more talented than the Iranians can't be made champions too.

 

:thumbsupsmiley:

 

You have a point. If Toroman could transform a group of mediocre players into champions, I don't see any reason why our collegiate players who are defiinitely more talented than the Iranians can't be made champions too.

 

:thumbsupsmiley:

[kanski]

^

 

didn't think i'd see the day..

 

 

just to butt in, I don't know about you guys but it might be too harsh and too early to compare Japeth with the "failures" of ex-RP team big men like EJ and Marlou. Marlou did an ok job as a post presence though he did get pushed around quite a bit and EJ really didn't have much going for him except his 7' frame. Japeth's still young and still has more time to improve...

 

as anyone can see, Japeth moves a with whole lot more ease for a full blooded pinoy with his height compared to other "big men" the Philippine Team has ever had. and there I think is the overrating/hype comes from. a lot of fans and analysts see a lot of potential in Japeth hence the hype/expectations. he can't just "float" in games and play like a wing man when obviously he's being brought in as a big man. he should take advantage of his athleticism but he needs to solidify first his big man game to be proven as a RP Team asset...

 

IMHO

 

i wouldn't say that ej and marlou were failures. they had a role in past rp teams and they filled it admirably. i personally didn't have high expectations for both these 2. having seen them play beforehand, i kind of knew what to expect of them in the international play.

 

si japeth on the other hand was a relative unknown having spent his past, is it 4 years, in the u.s. given the hype surrounding his u.s. stint, ncaa division 1 and all, it was natural for many of us to have high hopes for the kid. but with the brand of play that he has shown in the jones cup and the fiba tourney, i personally was a bit let down. but that hasn't let me waver from my belief that he is an indespensible part of the national team if only for his height. and fortunately for us, it doesn't end there. japeth is a considerable step up from the marlou and ejs of the past. he is quicker and more agile. and like you, i hope that with proper training, he will develop his game and bring it up a notch or two.

 

with regards to my previous post, the point that i wanted to stress is that we have to have big men even if they are just mediocre. we cannot rely on just 'small' men no matter how exceptional they are.

[silentwater]

whether forhisconvenient or notjapeth should honor his word.... i am in favor of a ban to set an example.... look at wang zhi zhi he was ban to play for the national team for his refusal to return and train with the team... he was onl allowed to represent china again after countless public apology made by wang..... to avoid such a sceanario japeth should honor his words....

 

 

dude, i would agree with you if indeed japeth "gave his words"... being drafted, wearing BK cap, shaking hands with the commish and BK manager, having photo ops and even crying in national television about realizing his dream of playing in the pba, whilst its an indication that he will most likely sign up with the team, is NOT a commitment... there's no indication he gave his words... palabra honor does not apply, therefore...

 

besides, pro basketball is all business... how many times did a manager or coach would say that the player they just signed up will become the cornerstone of their franchise yet later the same guy will be traded to another team... so i maintain that unless there is a signed contract, a draft rights is just a draft rights... which under their own rules is not equivalent to a formal contract...

[silentwater]

From what I know iba sa PBA, if a team drafts a player its either he signed-up with them or the team's rights to that particular player traded to another team. May case noon wherein umayaw ang isang player sa team na kumuha sa kanya, if i remember correctly, during the early 90's Victor Pablo was drafted by Ginebra, since noong time na 'yun mababa talaga salary ng players sa said team he asked to be traded to another team which Ginebra did. With regards naman doon sa mga players drafted by teams but was not signed, well it happens pero 'di sila No. 1 pick overall that Japeth is. Ginebra also drafted Egay Billiones way back in '99 but he did not signed up with them pero 'yung rights ng said team sa kanya remained and i think that the rights was eventually traded to Fedex (correct me if i'm wrong)..

 

 

tama na di applicable david robinson case kasi iba rule ng pba... sa nba eh hawak ng team yung rights sa player as long as he is playing professionally anywhere in the world pero they lose it after the player sits it out for 1 year... sa pba eh hawak rights for 2 years kahit mag sit out player... then after two years of not playing with any other pba team he can reenter the draft...

 

the rule applies to every player drafted... kahit no 1 or no 10... if i remember it right, ginebra was forced to trade pablo's right after he threatened that he will sit out then re enter na lang the draft if ginebra will not trade him...

 

japeth's case should be more forgivable kasi di naman nya pwersa BK na i trade sya... at sa national team sya maglalaro... but i agree that he really erred big time here... di na lang sana sya pumasok sa draft...

[rakizta]

dapat pala mismong draft day may pirmahan na ng contract para wala ng ganitong isyu

 

pagkasuot na jacket at cap sabay sign na kagad sabay pa picture...hehehe

[Agent_mulder]

dapat pala mismong draft day may pirmahan na ng contract para wala ng ganitong isyu

 

pagkasuot na jacket at cap sabay sign na kagad sabay pa picture...hehehe

 

Wala nang negotiations ha hehe. Also, in all the years I've watched the PBA draft, nakaka-bad trip tignan 'yung bigla na lang susuotan ng cap ng isang player ng isang PBA team 'yung amateur player na kinuha nila, ilalagay na lang kasi bigla kahit masikip at minsan 'di pa maayos ang pagkakalagay hehe, ewan ko kung napupuna n'yo din 'yun. Seriously, amateur players should made-up their mind before entering the draft, dapat alam na nila kung anong course to be taken para sa playing career nila, lesson learned na din 'to para sa PBA, players, teams at maging sa Smart Gilas. Every once in a while talaga situations like this that arises eh. Trade na lang ng BK si Japeth sa Ginebra for alvarez and bugia hehe plus some cash and/or future draft pick hehe....

Edited September 5, 2009 by Agent_mulder

[kanski]

read in the papers that boy wonder japeth will be sued by 2 agents that he formerly signed with to represent him as his agents. i guess signing with ronnie n didn't sit well with them. trouble seems to keep filing up for j. can't wait to find out what's next.

[bill_262003]

tama na di applicable david robinson case kasi iba rule ng pba... sa nba eh hawak ng team yung rights sa player as long as he is playing professionally anywhere in the world pero they lose it after the player sits it out for 1 year... sa pba eh hawak rights for 2 years kahit mag sit out player... then after two years of not playing with any other pba team he can reenter the draft...

 

the rule applies to every player drafted... kahit no 1 or no 10... if i remember it right, ginebra was forced to trade pablo's right after he threatened that he will sit out then re enter na lang the draft if ginebra will not trade him...

 

japeth's case should be more forgivable kasi di naman nya pwersa BK na i trade sya... at sa national team sya maglalaro... but i agree that he really erred big time here... di na lang sana sya pumasok sa draft...

 

So in this case, as long as Japeth does not play for any PBA team (or sits it out) for 2 years then he can re-apply for the draft after 2 years. Still the same concept as the NBA, difference is that in the NBA it is one year and in the PBA it is 2 years. So technically, Japeth can "sit out" the 2 years. Since playing for Smart Gilas is not playing for the PBA and Smart Gilas is an amateur team. This is what I was referring (the rule) that threatening him with a lifetime ban is not right, since there is already a rule that a player can sit out 2 years.... By the time 2012 comes, Japeth can technicaly re-enter the draft.

 

 

So wala talagang habol ang BK sa kanya, not unless he plays for another PBA team, then he is violating PBA rules.

 

So what PBA did to Alex Cabagnot (threatening him with a lifetime ban) when he did not sign up with the team that drafted him was actually wrong. Cause at that time Alex Cabagnot just went home and was not playing for any other PBA team at all.

 

Again, a team drafting the player does not imply that the player is forced to sign up with the team. Of course the player still has the final say on whether he will accept the terms of the contract being offered by the team that drafted him. If he is forced to sign then the contract will still be null and void. Under the law when one party is coerced into signing a contract then the whole contract is null and voice.

Edited September 5, 2009 by bill_262003

[launchpad]

for the "gave his word " scenario . . . . remember carlos boozer whom promise cleveland gm that if they void his contract he will sign with them , next thing you know . . . . the jazz snag him with a offer cleveland cant match.

 

ang sakit nun nag mukhang tanga ung GM nun.

 

sa akin lang just because your drafted isnt a sure thing, as one said it just gives the right of that team who drafted that player to have first hand negotiation.

 

just because BK wants to pay him the max contract, they are like saying there are obligations that a player must follow. parang tuloy nag mukha syang umiiyak sa media. cry baby!

 

para fair sa lahat dapat pa lang pba should make a rule that if any player participate in the draft, the team has the first refusal to sign a player or not and that player has no power or authority whatsoever and bound to sign if he is gven a offer. yan dapat ganyan!

 

tignan nyo na lang ilang players na ba na draft sa nba e pero they didnt signed with the team? what happens is that team has his rights if ever maglalaro na sya sa nba.

 

life isnt fair, it applies to all even to the pba. if everything is a sureball e ano naman saysay nun. banning players from future participation in the pba for actions like not signing contracts should not be a rule that is treated like kung ano na lang maiisip ng commish or pba board.

 

banning is a big thing, a very hard reprimandation or punishment, for this they should have set rules and should be impose throughout. hindi ung naiisipan ng isang tao tapos request sa board. kalokohan . . . .

 

parang ganito lang yan isang manager naghahanap sya ng employee nag magdadala ng isang malaking project, screen sya ng applications and may napili sya mga applicantes sa process ng HR ( scouting ) at sa huli napili na syang isa ( draft ) kso ayaw kunin ung package offer mo,

 

hindi mo pa talaga empleyado ung tao sa inis mo mag start ka na mag isip pano tong situation! pero since hindi applicable na sisantehin ginagawa nung manager sinasabi na sa CEO or sa may ari na magbaba sya ng memo sa HR para if ever mag apply ulit itong tao hindi na tanggapin or pansinin.

 

pero ano ba nagawa nung tao? nagustuhan sya ng manager kso kahit nag pass ng resume at nagpa interview ayaw nya kunin ung trabaho sa ano mang reasons. so itong si manager na bad trip! at galit na galit

Edited September 5, 2009 by launchpad

[cheeselogger]

With EJ Feihl being a failure with the national team, I agree. I don't consider Marlou a failure though. Marlou was our defensive anchor in the 1998 Asian Games. He made life miserable for Wang Zhizhi but we lost that game to China by 8 points. That 1998 team was one of the best we sent after the 1990 team. We won the bronze in that Asian Games.

 

FYI, the '98 team that was coached by Tim Cone got blown out of the court by the Korean team. Seo Jang Hoon (?) ran circles around the RP big men as his Korean team ran and gunned from everywhere the court teaching coach Cone a lesson for overlooking them and concentrating too much playing against the Chinese team...

 

also, as far as I remember/know, Wang played around Marlou as he definitely knew his advantage against him was his quickness. even Bateer Mengke(?) took advantage of Marlou's thin frame by bullying his way inside for points and rebounds.

 

IMHO, I liked the 2002 team better than that "Centennial Team". tragic though they lost to the eventual gold medalists Korean team. destined to win that tournament I believe were the Koreans...

[Guest megalodon]

FYI, the '98 team that was coached by Tim Cone got blown out of the court by the Korean team. Seo Jang Hoon (?) ran circles around the RP big men as his Korean team ran and gunned from everywhere the court teaching coach Cone a lesson for overlooking them and concentrating too much playing against the Chinese team...

 

also, as far as I remember/know, Wang played around Marlou as he definitely knew his advantage against him was his quickness. even Bateer Mengke(?) took advantage of Marlou's thin frame by bullying his way inside for points and rebounds.

 

IMHO, I liked the 2002 team better than that "Centennial Team". tragic though they lost to the eventual gold medalists Korean team. destined to win that tournament I believe were the Koreans...

I remember that game against China in the 1998 Asian Games. Wang didn't run rings around Marlou. He had a hard time against Marlou.