South China/West Philippine Sea

[tk421]

Willful annexation? Annexation by neglect? Can you elaborate on these two concepts?

 

Sure. We used to have an island called Pugad in Spratly's, but due to neglect of the soldiers stationed there (to attend a birthday party - this is true, btw). And we did allow China a foothold in the area by allowing them to build structures that later became military barracks.

 

Now about willful annexation - well... There are people in the Philippines that would rather sell out to China (for personal gains or maybe fear) than protect what's our's.

 

I've seen some comments in news sites where Pinoys were actually rooting for China in their dispute with Japan (rather enthusiastically, as if they were Chinese citizens themselves) . And there were people here in this very thread years ago, actually defending China's 'right' to the islands.

 

China is slowly eroding our borders, yet we haven't really taken steps to prevent that from happening, have we? Sure, we're asking the US to step in, but as the US recently said, they won't take sides in this dispute. And then there are those people who keeps blocking Permanent American presence in the PH.

[Bugatti Veyron]

Sure. We used to have an island called Pugad in Spratly's, but due to neglect of the soldiers stationed there (to attend a birthday party - this is true, btw). And we did allow China a foothold in the area by allowing them to build structures that later became military barracks.

 

Now about willful annexation - well... There are people in the Philippines that would rather sell out to China (for personal gains or maybe fear) than protect what's our's.

 

I've seen some comments in news sites where Pinoys were actually rooting for China in their dispute with Japan (rather enthusiastically, as if they were Chinese citizens themselves) . And there were people here in this very thread years ago, actually defending China's 'right' to the islands.

 

China is slowly eroding our borders, yet we haven't really taken steps to prevent that from happening, have we? Sure, we're asking the US to step in, but as the US recently said, they won't take sides in this dispute. And then there are those people who keeps blocking Permanent American presence in the PH.

I back read this thread from the start just now. Seems the thread started out quite heatedly with harsh words, snide remarks, and sarcastic comments thrown all around. Not unlike the posts I read nowadays on the PEaCE forum. Guess that can't really be helped sometimes when emotions run wild.

[sonnyt111]

If the Americans had access to Philippine ports on a regular basis, think of the protection they could provide with military equipment such as these lasers.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/us-military-reveals-laser-down-drones-mortars-225318179.html

 

 

 

[sonnyt111]

I wonder what would have happened had the two warships actually collided in the South China/West Philippine Sea. That surely would have heightened tensions in the area.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/u-chinese-warships-narrowly-avoid-collision-south-china-182435038.html

 

U.S., Chinese warships narrowly avoid collision in South China Sea

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. guided missile cruiser operating in international waters in the South China Sea was forced to take evasive action last week to avoid a collision with a Chinese navy ship maneuvering nearby, the U.S. Pacific Fleet said in a statement on Friday.

 

The incident on December 5 involving the USS Cowpens came at a time of heightened tensions between the United States and China following Beijing's declaration of an Air Defense Identification Zone in the East China Sea.

 

The Pacific Fleet statement did not offer details about what led to the near-collision. But it did say the incident underscored the need for the "highest standards of professional seamanship, including communications between vessels, to mitigate the risk of an unintended incident or mishap."

 

Beijing declared the air defense zone over the East China Sea late last month and demanded that aircraft flying through the area provide it with flight plans and other information.

 

The United States and its allies rejected the Chinese demand and have continued to fly military aircraft into the zone, which includes air space over a small group of islands claimed by China but currently administered by Tokyo.

 

In the midst of the tensions over the air defense zone, China deployed its only aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, to the South China Sea for maneuvers. Beijing claims most of the South China Sea and is involved in territorial disputes in the region with several of its neighbors.

 

(Reporting by David Alexander; Editing by Jim Loney)

 

 

 

[jacuzzi]

Sure, we're asking the US to step in, but as the US recently said, they won't take sides in this dispute. And then there are those people who keeps blocking Permanent American presence in the PH.

You like to juggle the facts.

 

The Truth is the NPA is asking the US not to take sides in the dispute. Its surrogates in government - and they are many -are blocking American presence in the country. Yet the US stated that its presence in the region is clearly to preserve the integrity of territorial boundaries and upkeep the security of the International Shipping Lanes.

 

 

 

 

The latest national hero and dad of the present Philippine President categorically declared his WISH to make China dominate the USA. Of course that is due to Ninoy's flawed idea of democracy and preference for SOCIALISM. In a democracy, there is really resistance to make anyone rule or dominate. But if the last World War was to be our basis, Socialism is all for domination and pursuit of power; consistent to the military behavior of China today. It is amazing that in this year's memory of Ninoy's TV videos omitted these portions where he is caught wishing for the replacement of the US by China as World Power and likewise his preference for Socialism.

 

 

Perhaps the networks ought to reply the dying Atty Jose Mari Velez' warnings about the deceit happening back then during Cory's administration.

 

 

 

In contrast, under the leadership of US Democracy, the free world allowed former enemies Japan and Germany to recover from the ruins of war and even dominate and share in the prosperity of mutual development and progress.

Edited December 14, 2013 by jacuzzi

[Bugatti Veyron]

If the Americans had access to Philippine ports on a regular basis, think of the protection they could provide with military equipment such as these lasers.

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-225318179.html

This is one technology that America is going to keep close to its chest. I really doubt if they'd sell such technology to other nations.

 

 

 

[heatseeker0714]

This is one technology that America is going to keep close to its chest. I really doubt if they'd sell such technology to other nations.

 

Just like the F-22 Raptor... Banned by US Federal Law for sale to other nations... Even if The US is willing to sell it to its allies Japan and Israel and both countries have the financial & technological capacity to buy and maintain said bird...

 

That's why both countries chose the F-35 instead, a watered down version of the F-22... Israel was gunning for 12 birds, dunno about the Sushi lovers but they do have more moolah than the Kosher eaters...

[maxiev]

Just like the F-22 Raptor... Banned by US Federal Law for sale to other nations... Even if The US is willing to sell it to its allies Japan and Israel and both countries have the financial & technological capacity to buy and maintain said bird...

 

That's why both countries chose the F-35 instead, a watered down version of the F-22... Israel was gunning for 12 birds, dunno about the Sushi lovers but they do have more moolah than the Kosher eaters...

What a coincidence. Looks like the Sushi lovers are beefing up their military to thwart the growing Chinese threat.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/japan-invests-military-kit-china-row-simmers-113144839.html

 

Japan boosts military purchases as China row simmers

 

Tokyo (AFP) - Japan announced Tuesday it will buy stealth fighters, drones and submarines as part of a splurge on military hardware that will beef up defence of far-flung islands amid a territorial row with China.

 

The cabinet of hawkish Prime Minister Shinzo Abe agreed to spend 24.7 trillion yen ($240 billion) between 2014 and 2019 in a strategic shift towards the south and west of the country -- a five percent boost to the military budget over five years.

 

The shopping list is part of efforts by Abe to upgrade the military in Japan, which has been officially pacifist since defeat in World War II. Its well-equipped and highly professional services are limited to a narrowly defined self-defensive role.

 

"Can we really protect the lives of citizens and our state simply by (exercising) the right to individual self-defense?" Abe asked rhetorically at a meeting of a government panel of security experts Tuesday, Kyodo news agency reported.

 

The large-scale spending on military hardware comes as Japan establishes a US-style National Security Council that is expected to concentrate greater power in the hands of a smaller number of senior politicians and bureaucrats.

 

 

 

 

'Proactive pacifism'

 

 

 

 

Fears are growing in Japan over the rising power of China, with the two countries embroiled in a dispute over the sovereignty of a group of islands in the East China Sea, and the perennial threat posed by an unpredictable North Korea.

 

The new guidelines approved by the cabinet on Tuesday call for Japan to boost its missile defence system to counter "a grave and imminent threat" from North Korea.

 

Pyongyang conducted its third nuclear test in February, following a rocket test in December 2012.

 

The guidelines also demand a "dynamic joint defence force", intended to help air, land and sea forces work together more effectively.

 

Abe said the shift would allow Japan's military to better shoulder its responsibilities on the global stage.

 

"We hope to make further contributions to the peace and stability of the international community through proactive pacifism," he said. "This shows with transparency our country's diplomatic and defence policies."

 

US Secretary of State John Kerry said on a visit to Manila Tuesday that his country backed the newly-announced re-armament plan, saying it had been planned with the United States beforehand.

 

"Japan has the ability to play a more modern, engaged role (in the region). This is something we have been working on, and they have been planning for some period of time," he told reporters.

 

Spending will be raised to 24.7 trillion yen over five years from April 2014, up from the present 23.5 trillion yen over the five years to March 2014, but the figure could be trimmed by up to 700 billion yen if the defence ministry can find savings and efficiencies.

 

New hardware will include two destroyers equipped with the Aegis anti-missile system and 28 new F-35 fighter jets, a stealth plane far superior to the F-15s that Japan currently has in service.

 

Japan will also purchase three drones, 52 amphibious vehicles, 17 Osprey hybrid choppers and five submarines -- all designed to boost maritime surveillance and bolster defence of islands.

 

 

 

 

Replacing obsolete equipment

 

 

 

 

Analysts noted that much of this kit will replace obsolete equipment, but the reorientating in military priorities is evident.

 

"The guidelines underscore a clear shift of Japan's major defence focus to the protection of its islands in the East China Sea," said Hideshi Takesada, an expert on regional security at Takushoku University in Tokyo.

 

During the Cold War, Japan's military was largely static, with the majority of resources in the north and east to guard against any invasion by Russia.

 

But changing dynamics and in particular the rise of China -- where double-digit jumps in defence spending are the annual norm -- mean that Japan's armed forces need to be located farther south and to be able to deploy to the country's many far-flung islands.

 

"The guidelines show Japan's readiness for practical defence if China's bluff turns to be real military action," Takesada said.

 

Regional tensions were ratcheted up last month when China abruptly declared a new Air Defence Identification Zone over the East China Sea, including over disputed Tokyo-controlled islands called Senkaku in Japanese and Diaoyu in Chinese.

 

In Beijing, where memories of Japan's brutal rampage last century refuse to fade, foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said it was watching Tokyo carefully.

 

"Asian countries and the international community, including China, cannot but pay high attention and stay on high alert to Japan's relevant moves," she said.

 

"Japan should not make empty calls for peace and it should make honest, real actions and play a constructive role for regional peace and stability."

[maxiev]

Here's some good news about America's commitment to help the Philippines in its on-going row with China.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/us-backs-philippines-warns-china-over-air-zone-133032209.html

 

 

US backs Philippines, warns China over air zone

 

Manila (AFP) - US Secretary of State John Kerry warned China Tuesday against any move to declare an air defence zone in the South China Sea, as he affirmed defence ties with long-time ally the Philippines.

 

Kerry, in Manila for a two-day visit, criticised China for its declaration last month of an Air Defence Identification Zone (ADIZ) in the East China Sea including over disputed islands.

 

He warned Beijing against any similar move in the South China Sea, where it has overlapping claims with several Asian countries including the Philippines.

 

Kerry also announced that Washington had committed $40 million to help the Philippines strengthen its sea defence capabilities.

 

The two sides are also in the final stages of hammering out a deal allowing more US troops, aircraft and ships to pass through the Philippines, where the last US bases closed in 1992.

 

"Today, I raised our deep concerns about China's announcement of an East China Sea air defence identification zone," Kerry said after meeting his Filipino counterpart Albert del Rosario.

 

"The zone should not be implemented and China should refrain from taking similar, unilateral actions elsewhere in the region, and particularly over the South China Sea," he told a joint news conference.

 

The Philippines had said last month that Beijing's announcement of its ADIZ in the East China Sea raised the prospect of it doing the same in the South China Sea.

 

China claims almost all the South China Sea but the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan have overlapping claims.

 

Tensions between the Philippines and China have risen in recent years as Beijing becomes more aggressive in asserting its claims.

 

Earlier this year Manila took Beijing to a United Nations tribunal over the contested Scarborough Shoal, which has been controlled by Chinese government vessels since last year.

 

Beijing's East China Sea zone requires aircraft to provide flight plans when traversing the area, declare their nationality and maintain two-way radio communication, or face "emergency defensive measures".

 

The zone covers disputed Tokyo-controlled islands -- known as the Senkakus in Japan and the Diaoyus in China -- where ships and aircraft from the two countries already shadow each other.

 

"I told the (Philippine) foreign secretary that the United States does not recognise that (East China Sea) zone and does not accept it," Kerry said.

 

Kerry also threw his support behind the Philippines, calling it a "key treaty ally".

 

"The United States is committed to working with the Philippines to address its most pressing security challenges," he said.

 

"That is why we are negotiating a strong and enduring framework agreement that will enhance defence cooperation under our alliance, including through an increased rotational presence in the Philippines."

 

John Blaxland, a defence analyst at the Australian National University's College of Asia and the Pacific, earlier said Kerry's visit was meant to assure the region that America "is not just a fair-weather friend".

 

"Kerry's visit can be expected to act as a catalyst for change," Blaxland told AFP, and underscored the Philipines's important role as Washington embarks on its so-called pivot to Asia.

 

Kerry was expected to meet President Benigno Aquino Tuesday night, and visit the typhoon-ravaged central city of Tacloban Wednesday.

 

Kerry said the United States stood ready to assist the Philippines in the long road to rebuilding, more than a month after Super Typhoon Haiyan left more than 6,000 people dead and over four million homeless.

 

The United States provided massive humanitarian assistance, deploying an aircraft carrier and mobilising 1,000 Marines.

 

On Tuesday Kerry paid tribute to the "resilience" of the Filipino people, which he said had inspired the world.

 

Del Rosario said Kerry's trip underscored the "increased momentum" of bilateral and defence ties.

[heatseeker0714]

What a coincidence. Looks like the Sushi lovers are beefing up their military to thwart the growing Chinese threat.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/japan-invests-military-kit-china-row-simmers-113144839.html

 

Japan boosts military purchases as China row simmers

 

Tokyo (AFP) - Japan announced Tuesday it will buy stealth fighters, drones and submarines as part of a splurge on military hardware that will beef up defence of far-flung islands amid a territorial row with China.

 

The cabinet of hawkish Prime Minister Shinzo Abe agreed to spend 24.7 trillion yen ($240 billion) between 2014 and 2019 in a strategic shift towards the south and west of the country -- a five percent boost to the military budget over five years.

 

The shopping list is part of efforts by Abe to upgrade the military in Japan, which has been officially pacifist since defeat in World War II. Its well-equipped and highly professional services are limited to a narrowly defined self-defensive role.

 

"Can we really protect the lives of citizens and our state simply by (exercising) the right to individual self-defense?" Abe asked rhetorically at a meeting of a government panel of security experts Tuesday, Kyodo news agency reported.

 

The large-scale spending on military hardware comes as Japan establishes a US-style National Security Council that is expected to concentrate greater power in the hands of a smaller number of senior politicians and bureaucrats.

 

 

 

 

'Proactive pacifism'

 

 

 

 

Fears are growing in Japan over the rising power of China, with the two countries embroiled in a dispute over the sovereignty of a group of islands in the East China Sea, and the perennial threat posed by an unpredictable North Korea.

 

The new guidelines approved by the cabinet on Tuesday call for Japan to boost its missile defence system to counter "a grave and imminent threat" from North Korea.

 

Pyongyang conducted its third nuclear test in February, following a rocket test in December 2012.

 

The guidelines also demand a "dynamic joint defence force", intended to help air, land and sea forces work together more effectively.

 

Abe said the shift would allow Japan's military to better shoulder its responsibilities on the global stage.

 

"We hope to make further contributions to the peace and stability of the international community through proactive pacifism," he said. "This shows with transparency our country's diplomatic and defence policies."

 

US Secretary of State John Kerry said on a visit to Manila Tuesday that his country backed the newly-announced re-armament plan, saying it had been planned with the United States beforehand.

 

"Japan has the ability to play a more modern, engaged role (in the region). This is something we have been working on, and they have been planning for some period of time," he told reporters.

 

Spending will be raised to 24.7 trillion yen over five years from April 2014, up from the present 23.5 trillion yen over the five years to March 2014, but the figure could be trimmed by up to 700 billion yen if the defence ministry can find savings and efficiencies.

 

New hardware will include two destroyers equipped with the Aegis anti-missile system and 28 new F-35 fighter jets, a stealth plane far superior to the F-15s that Japan currently has in service.

 

Japan will also purchase three drones, 52 amphibious vehicles, 17 Osprey hybrid choppers and five submarines -- all designed to boost maritime surveillance and bolster defence of islands.

 

 

 

 

Replacing obsolete equipment

 

 

 

 

Analysts noted that much of this kit will replace obsolete equipment, but the reorientating in military priorities is evident.

 

"The guidelines underscore a clear shift of Japan's major defence focus to the protection of its islands in the East China Sea," said Hideshi Takesada, an expert on regional security at Takushoku University in Tokyo.

 

During the Cold War, Japan's military was largely static, with the majority of resources in the north and east to guard against any invasion by Russia.

 

But changing dynamics and in particular the rise of China -- where double-digit jumps in defence spending are the annual norm -- mean that Japan's armed forces need to be located farther south and to be able to deploy to the country's many far-flung islands.

 

"The guidelines show Japan's readiness for practical defence if China's bluff turns to be real military action," Takesada said.

 

Regional tensions were ratcheted up last month when China abruptly declared a new Air Defence Identification Zone over the East China Sea, including over disputed Tokyo-controlled islands called Senkaku in Japanese and Diaoyu in Chinese.

 

In Beijing, where memories of Japan's brutal rampage last century refuse to fade, foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said it was watching Tokyo carefully.

 

"Asian countries and the international community, including China, cannot but pay high attention and stay on high alert to Japan's relevant moves," she said.

 

"Japan should not make empty calls for peace and it should make honest, real actions and play a constructive role for regional peace and stability."

 

 

The Corruptors are now wondering, did we bite off more than we could chew... The fighting quality of the Sushi Lovers have never been in doubt... Sure they have Article 9 in their Constitution, but now Abe's back as PM and has the political clout to call a referendum and amend Article 9...

 

The Grandkids of Yamashita scrapped their Self Defence Agency and instead put up a Ministry of Defence in 2011 or 2012, has this year set up a National Security Council, and now this latest binge on more modern weapons platforms that the Katana users currently have...

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

The Corruptors are now wondering, did we bite off more than we could chew... The fighting quality of the Sushi Lovers have never been in doubt... Sure they have Article 9 in their Constitution, but now Abe's back as PM and has the political clout to call a referendum and amend Article 9...

 

The Grandkids of Yamashita scrapped their Self Defence Agency and instead put up a Ministry of Defence in 2011 or 2012, has this year set up a National Security Council, and now this latest binge on more modern weapons platforms that the Katana users currently have...

Should we be fearing a militaristic Japan? Is another WW2 type scenario a possibility with Japan's increasing military spending and capability? Or is the situation today completely different from the one in 1939?

[heatseeker0714]

Should we be fearing a militaristic Japan? Is another WW2 type scenario a possibility with Japan's increasing military spending and capability? Or is the situation today completely different from the one in 1939?

 

Japan was the naughty kid who got his @$$ handed to him in the 40s, learned from his mistake, grew up, made efforts to rescind his mistake by being generous to the neighbors he troubled as a teenager when he became successful and all but kneeled in front of every other kid he hurt during his teenage years... except for his reverence to his emperor, his conviction of honoring ALL of her war dead including those who did heinous acts and officially saying sorry for the comfort women and sometimes the propensity of some of her citizens to rewrite their history, her actions since 1945 to me has shown that they are capable of admitting their mistakes and owning up to them and rectifying said mistakes...

 

Compare this to China, who instead of moving on,kept remembering her traumatic childhood, umasenso na at lahat talagang hindi naka-move on to the point na instead na maawa ka at intindihin sya mabubusit ka na lang...

 

Who would you befriend? who would you avoid?

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

Japan was the naughty kid who got his @$ handed to him in the 40s, learned from his mistake, grew up, made efforts to rescind his mistake by being generous to the neighbors he troubled as a teenager when he became successful and all but kneeled in front of every other kid he hurt during his teenage years... except for his reverence to his emperor, his conviction of honoring ALL of her war dead including those who did heinous acts and officially saying sorry for the comfort women and sometimes the propensity of some of her citizens to rewrite their history, her actions since 1945 to me has shown that they are capable of admitting their mistakes and owning up to them and rectifying said mistakes...

 

Compare this to China, who instead of moving on,kept remembering her traumatic childhood, umasenso na at lahat talagang hindi naka-move on to the point na instead na maawa ka at intindihin sya mabubusit ka na lang...

 

Who would you befriend? who would you avoid?

I see your point. Well said heatseeker.

[tk421]

I agree with heatseeker. China doesn't want to grow up and is stuck in the past.

[Bugatti Veyron]

I agree with heatseeker. China doesn't want to grow up and is stuck in the past.

Just like some people with a lot of emotional baggage.