South China/West Philippine Sea

[rooster69ph]

So thats the only talked about? Wala kaming laban sa inyo talo na kami, pagbigyan mo na lang mangisda kami dyan. Okay thank you bye bye balik na kami sa Pinas.

Tulad nun sinabi ko kung may ibang material na positive na napagusapan nilabas na yan sa press ng administrasyon. Pogi points yan di ba.

 

At dahil wala naman silang sinasabi o napabalita at ayaw nating magspeculate then the safe assumption is walang ibang material na napagusapan that is favorable to us.

 

Iba yun walang ibang material na napagusapan sa walang ibang pinagusapan. Maaring imbes na umuwi na agad sa Pinas eh napagusapan nila kung ano ang favorite food nila. kung ano ba ang PI in mandarin etc pero lahat ng ito di material sa atin di po ba? Yun lang yun.

Edited November 5, 2016 by rooster69ph

[camiar]

Tulad nun sinabi ko kung may ibang material na positive na napagusapan nilabas na yan sa press ng administrasyon. Pogi points yan di ba.

 

At dahil wala naman silang sinasabi o napabalita at ayaw nating magspeculate then the safe assumption is walang ibang material na napagusapan that is favorable to us.

 

Iba yun walang ibang material na napagusapan sa walang ibang pinagusapan. Maaring imbes na umuwi na agad sa Pinas eh napagusapan nila kung ano ang favorite food nila. kung ano ba ang PI in mandarin etc pero lahat ng ito di material sa atin di po ba? Yun lang yun.

Don't be naive. These are executive level discussions. Do not assume that nothing else in our favor was discussed. You were not there. And you will never know until they declassify the minutes of their meeting. Everything you say otherwise are just your biased speculation.

Edited November 5, 2016 by camiar

[rooster69ph]

Don't be naive. These are executive level discussions. Do not assume that nothing else in our favor was discussed. You were not there. And you will never know until they declassify the minutes of their meeting. Everything you say otherwise are just your biased speculation.

So tell me if there were other material beneficial matters discussed and granted why would they not disclose to the filipinos?

 

Dahil takot mailabas un katotohanan kung bakit napapayag?

[haroots2]

So tell me if there were other material beneficial matters discussed and granted why would they not disclose to the filipinos?

 

Dahil takot mailabas un katotohanan kung bakit napapayag?

 

Ang gusto mo lahat ng classified issues ilabas na? Bilateral talks with China and DU30 admin jsut started and it will not end on his last trip. It will be a continuous discussion kaya hindi pa dapat ipagyabang yung hindi pa final.

[rooster69ph]

 

Ang gusto mo lahat ng classified issues ilabas na? Bilateral talks with China and DU30 admin jsut started and it will not end on his last trip. It will be a continuous discussion kaya hindi pa dapat ipagyabang yung hindi pa final.

 

meron ba akong sinabing ilabas nila ang classified matters? Saan?

 

Ang sinasabi ko kung may material na napagkasunduan that will benefit us eh nailabas na yun. Tulad ng pagpayag na mangisda, although hindi hayagang sinabi ni Du30 na pumayag ang China na makapangisda tayo at kung sa anong terms nabanggit niya na just wait and our fishermen will be able to fish again.

 

At dahil nga walang ibang material na napagkasunduan eh hindi ba tama na wala ngang maipahayag o maipagyabang.

[haroots2]

 

meron ba akong sinabing ilabas nila ang classified matters? Saan?

 

Ang sinasabi ko kung may material na napagkasunduan that will benefit us eh nailabas na yun. Tulad ng pagpayag na mangisda, although hindi hayagang sinabi ni Du30 na pumayag ang China na makapangisda tayo at kung sa anong terms nabanggit niya na just wait and our fishermen will be able to fish again.

 

At dahil nga walang ibang material na napagkasunduan eh hindi ba tama na wala ngang maipahayag o maipagyabang.

 

Basahin mo muna kasi ng buo hindi yung hihimay ka lang para i comment. Kung hindi pa finalize yung usapan di ba dapat classified muna iyon until mag fully agree ang dalawang partido? Unang talks pa lang nila yon gusto mo tapos na lahat. Kapag sinabi naman agad prematurely pwedeng maunsyami yung uasapan. Alam mo na dapat yun diba?

[rooster69ph]

 

Basahin mo muna kasi ng buo hindi yung hihimay ka lang para i comment. Kung hindi pa finalize yung usapan di ba dapat classified muna iyon until mag fully agree ang dalawang partido? Unang talks pa lang nila yon gusto mo tapos na lahat. Kapag sinabi naman agad prematurely pwedeng maunsyami yung uasapan. Alam mo na dapat yun diba?

 

Balikan mo ang statement ko kung saan ka nagreact ... what i said was "if there were other material beneficial matters discussed and granted" ... gets mo yun difference in meaning pag sinabing discussed AND granted vs. discussed OR granted? Ibig sabihin nito napagusapan at napagkasunduan...eh totoo naman wala na maliban sa mga napabalita. Kung meron man napagusapan ngunit hindi pa napagkasunduan eh that is a non-issue so I don't know why you are reacting at sinasama mo sa usapan.

 

Classified? Ano naman ang classified at sensitive sa information na dapat i-disclose lalu na't discuss and granted na.

 

E ang classified dapat eh yun pagamin ng pangulo na wala tayong kalaban laban sa China at hindi tayo lalaban. Kung pupunta ka sa negotiating table hindi ba hindi dapat dinidisclose lalu na't sa kabilang panig ang kahinaan at posisyon mo na ikahihina ng bargaining power mo?

 

Now dun naman sa napagusapan at hindi pa napagkasunduan obviously pare-pareho nating hindi alam ang kahihinatnan ng usaping yan. Thus it is pre-mature to speculate na may positive na mangyayari

Edited November 7, 2016 by rooster69ph

[haroots2]

Now dun naman sa napagusapan at hindi pa napagkasunduan obviously pare-pareho nating hindi alam ang kahihinatnan ng usaping yan. Thus it is pre-mature to speculate na may positive na mangyayari

Kaya nga don't also speculate na wala ring nangyari kasi hindi natin alam lahat ng pinagusapan nila.

[rooster69ph]

Kaya nga don't also speculate na wala ring nangyari kasi hindi natin alam lahat ng pinagusapan nila.

 

Sino ba ang nagiispeculate? Ang sabi ko it is safe to assume that nothing material was discussed and granted aside from what has been reported.

 

SO tell me nga is there anything discussed and granted other than those reported so far?

[camiar]

 

Sino ba ang nagiispeculate? Ang sabi ko it is safe to assume that nothing material was discussed and granted aside from what has been reported.

 

SO tell me nga is there anything discussed and granted other than those reported so far?

Assumption = presumption, belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise,guess, premise, hypothesis

 

Tama na palusot.

 

And for the nth time, the answer is yes, there were things discussed and granted other than those reported so far, AND your pay grade is not high enough to get to know about it.

Edited November 7, 2016 by camiar

[rooster69ph]

Yes ng yes ... Meron daw. O eh di meron ...wala naman nasabi kung anu ang mga ito. Ganun lang naman kasimple.

[rooster69ph]

Classified' hindi pwede isapubliko pero alam ninyo meron....kayo na!

[rooster69ph]

Siguro clairvoyant ... Kaya alam kahit classified

[camiar]

Again, for those of us whose pay grade is not high enough, need-to-know basis lang tayo.

 

But there are some who have enough knowledge about these things to know intuitively what other classified matters could have been discussed and agreed.

 

And there are others who really are forever clueless and have to make do only with what they read from tabloids..

Edited November 8, 2016 by camiar

[BnF95]

So many people here are either high or seeing through rose-tinted glasses, the Flippines cannot, realistically, hope to stand of the PRiCk (PRC) based on the simple fact that the Pricks vastly outgun and outman the Flips, you can attempt to argue anything under the sun, but without American support (the USA being one of only 2 powers that can even hope to fight against the PRC) the RP will be conquered in a matter of weeks (maybe months on the outside), granted there could be continuing guerrilla warfare, but this is basically the case of a child screaming and throwing a tantrum against an adult soldier.

[camiar]

I'd like to share this editorial from The Daily Tribune, to which I totally agree:

 

US officials, from president, to senators and congressmen, as well as the various US and international organizations that keep on threatening Rody Dutere with whatever sanctions or withdrawals of aid, military and otherwise, should have learned by now a very important lesson, if they want to maintain good relations with the Philippines.

 

The United States, even as it is a world power, still hasn’t gotten in its noggin that the US needs the Philippines more than this country needs America, especially at this time, with the American government seeing China as a threat while the Philippine government sees China as a friend of the Philippines.

 

Sure, the US is a military power, while the Philippines is not, but with the US pivot to Asia, the US certainly needs the Philippines more than the country needing America and its aid.

 

This is one of the major reasons Rody is unfazed whenever America threatens him with the withdrawal of the over $400 million in funds from the Millennium Challenge Corp.

 

Rody can easily threaten the US with the abrogation of the Visiting Forces Agreement which has gone way beyond the terms of the original VFA agreement, where US visiting forces merely hold military exercises with Filipino troops in various parts of the country. It has morphed into getting the Philippines, then under the US puppet Noynoy Aquino, to build bases for the US forces in at least five areas in the Philippines, especially in areas where its nuclear weapons will be directed at China.

 

Rody can also get the Mutual Defense Treaty between the Philippines and the US revoked. And maybe easily, since the MDT, as the VFA were treaties’agreements which were ratified only by the Philippine Senate, and not the US Senate.

The Constitution says that the US Congress must also ratify treaties ratified by the Philippine Senate.
If not, these agreements and treaties can certainly be revoked and b the RP Senate.

 

The historical truth is that the US never bothered to defend the Philippines under the Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT).

Sabah historically belongs to the Philippines but the British, which did not own Sabah had no right to hand Sabah over to Malaya, now Malaysia, since the rightful owner is the Sultan of Sulu, a Filipino-Muslim, but the US did nothing to help the Philippines in bid to get what it owns.

 

Manila was the second worst hit and war-torn city in the world, next only to Warsaw during the war. Yet what did the US do? Instead of helping the Philippines and Manila after the war, the US instead poured money into Japan, its war foe at that time. What did the Philippines get for being an ally of the US? Nothing. Not even our veterans for years and years, never got the recognition they deserved for fighting and even dying for America.

 

For decades, the US treated the country shabbily. America had its bases in the country, rent-free, where even the Philippine officials had to seek permission for them to get inside the American bases. It is as if Filipinos had to bow to the sovereignty of the US in their own land in exchange for the miniscule aid from the US government, compared to the other countries that are their allies.

 

Finally came Ferdinand Marcos, who cut the lease of the American government on the two bases to 25 years.

 

And then came Corazon Aquino, propelleld to power through a revolt and again, Cory was the US puppet, as she made it clear that the US bases must be retained. Can one imagine the highly embarrassing spectacle of a Philippine president leading a protest action against the Philippine Senate for the Senate not to vote against the retention of the US bases?

Fortunately for the Filipinos, the senators — 12 of them, dubbed the “Magnificent 12” — won the day and junked the Bases agreement with the US.

 

Even better, the 1986 Constitution already states that there can no longer be permanent foreign troops and bases in the Philippines. There is even a policy banning nuclear weapons.

 

Yet what happened? The US and the Philippine presidents who bowed to the US found loopholes that allowed foreign troops’ temporary visits thorugh an expanded VFA which VFA has been so bastardized that the US can even come in with their nuclear warheads and with the Philippine government unable to check on nuclear weapons America brings and even the number of US troops since they dont’ go through immigration.

To this day, the US governments still have not realized that they can no longer treat the Philippines as a US vassal and a colony.

 

It should wake to the fact that America needs the Philippines more than we Filipinos need America.

Filipinos have survived through various eras. Filipinos will survive without America.

Treat the Philippines right, and the country will treat the US right.

Edited December 20, 2016 by camiar

[camiar]

I just learned that Manny V Pangilinan's oil exploration company, PXP Energy, mobilized the drill ship Deepsea Metro 1 to West Philippine Sea to start drilling by end of this month.

 

Apparently, PXP Energy are in talks with China National Offshore Oil Corp.. (CNOOC) for joint exploration of the West Philippine Sea for its potential natural gas reserves.

[juan t]

During the previous administration, we were the USA's buffer against the Chinese in this part of the world. When Duterte took over, we are now having warm relations with China which means that we are no longer the USA's buffer against the Chinese. Aside from that, he solidified relations with other Southeast Asian nations and Japan. He even went to Russia to renew the erstwhile dormant relations we had with the Euroasian superpower. Duterte does not only have the respect of Trump, he also has the respect of Putin and Xi. Duterte is in the good graces of the three superpowers. This makes him a geopolitical grand master.

 

 

Geopolitical grandmaster huh.. He has the respect of Xi huh. Thats funny cause when I look at the West Philippine Sea situation, all I see is disrespect of our sovereignty.

[camiar]

 

The last time I checked, Malampaya is natural gas and not oil. If and when Duterte and Xi decide to do a joint exploration in the South China sea and they are successful, there will be revenue sharing and our gas prices will plummet, not to mention our taxes.

If you follow Sec. Diokno's advocacy on our strategic economic development, he considers our gas reserves as sources of investments, not a purse bag for our operating expenses.

 

The wealth we get from our natural gas extraction will be re-invested to infrastructure and service facilities -- roads, seaports, airports, modern communication networks, hospitals,schools etc...

 

Diokno does not see lowering of fuel prices as good for the economy. Steep fuel prices encourage the people to economize, prioritize their travels. According to him, we should rather use the windfall taxes on fuel prices to improve our public transport system.

 

Do not expect our gas prices nor our taxes to go down. But expect more infrastructure construction works without having to finance it with foreign loans at usurious interest.

[perfectstranger]

binenta na tayo sa china. at least based on the current scenario. unless biglang bumaliktad na naman ang stand natin, which is still a possibility given duterte's history.

[camiar]

binenta na tayo sa china. at least based on the current scenario. unless biglang bumaliktad na naman ang stand natin, which is still a possibility given duterte's history.

You don't know what you're saying.

[perfectstranger]

You don't know what you're saying.

who are you to say what i know? hahaha

[camiar]

who are you to say what i know? hahaha

who, indeed?

 

Prove to us in this thread that our government sold us out to China.

 

Cite your "current scenarios" to prove your point.

 

Cite instances where the government reversed its stand on our sovereignty claims.

Edited October 20, 2017 by camiar

[perfectstranger]

what i cite and what i know are very different things. you can believe what you want.

 

the reality is really simple... what do we have to give up (or have already given up) to get this win-win solution? sure we benefit from joint exploration instead of getting nothing. i can't deny that. but we have to give up part of what is rightfully ours. so in that sense, yes, we are being sold out. not to mention the loans that will bury us in debt due to interest rates. but that's another topic so i won't dwell into it.

 

fishermen were allowed to fish in SS... ok, better than nothing. but we had to kiss china's ass and concede to their influence/power.

 

I'm not denying the fact that we do get something from this strategy, and maybe Duterte has something else planned. But like I said as things are now, that's how it looks like.

 

reversed its stand? I'm obviously talking about past vs present admin. and it can happen again given duterte's history of flip flopping. i hope it's clear now as you might have interpreted it differently.

[tk421]

What use is doing a joint exploration if we cannot even exploit whatever we find there, then?