South China/West Philippine Sea

[Bugatti Veyron]

Assuming that the NBI report faithfully chronicles the events leading to the shooting incident, one can see what one mistake by an over zealous/ignorant member of a PSG man vis-à-vis the rules on engagement can cause insofar as creating an international incident is concerned.

 

Now imagine the same scenario, but this time, not with an M16 that kills just one man but a Philippine navy warship bearing harpoon missiles that destroys an entire enemy ship, killing dozens of enemy sailors.

 

With great weapons, comes great responsibilities. The men commanding such warships must possess the highest possible standards of professionalism, knowledge on the rules of engagement, and the leadership to make his men follow these rules to the letter. There is no room for unprofessional, ignorant and untrained personnel in such warships.

 

It is time not only to modernize the AFP's weapons, it is time to professionalize the men and women in uniform. Their mindsets, attitudes, biases, etc. must give way to a deep understanding of their duties and responsibilities as professional soldiers. The rules on engagement must be clearly understood and observed because the consequences of a similar mistake could be extremely dire. We could lose our warship to enemy retaliation together with the deaths of countless navy personnel just because someone did not understand the rules on engagement or simply chose to ignore it.

[Bugatti Veyron]

Fundamentals of command and control must also be part of the total package to ensure that our sailors and soldiers are given timely and accurate information on a battlefield to ensure maximum enemy casualties (in case of a full blown war/skirmish) and to minimize friendly fire casualties. How we hope to achieve this without satellites and state of the art computers is anyone's guess. I'm hoping that the US helps the Philippine military develop a credible command and control system.

 

But then, as most everyone agrees, the ships and other modern weapons the AFP has been acquiring is for minimum credible defense purposes only and not meant to be used in a real war. Bro Camiar and Heetseeker have clearly stated this in their earlier posts. They are meant to be deterrents to growing Chinese aggression in the West Philippine/China Sea.

 

Here's hoping that these new upgraded weapons will be used responsibly and will not antagonize China anymore than it already is.

 

 

[everyman]

Good job by the NBI and the Philippine government investigating this incident.

 

We've asserted our jurisdiction over this incident and conducted the investigation fairly to the satisfaction of both parties proving the naysayers wrong.

 

 

 

So who here is confident that the investigation will be thorough and fair? Raise your hands.

 

If you were Taiwan, would you trust the NBI? Filipinos themselves don't trust the NBI lol.

[camiar]

The NBI report gave the Taiwanese president some room to wiggle out of his political blunder. He over-reacted to the incident and declared economic sanctions vs. the Philippines. It turns out to be more costly to Taiwanese businessmen dependent on Filipino workers than to Philippines.

 

The report also gave the amateur pinoy president some room to wiggle out of his blundering incompetence. He should have handled the incident personally by calling the Taiwanese president immediately to sort things out before the story hit the early morning news.

 

In the end, it's still the pinoys looking stupid and weak, apologizing for incidents resulting from our efforts to enforce the Philippine sovereignty.

[dungeonbaby]

...still...it's disappointing that homicide charges are being brought against so many men. Not sure how one is charged when there is command hierarchy, and one is merely following his commanding officer's orders.

 

As for tampering with evidence, that's just indefensible.

 

changed my mind. i saw the footage where our coast guard were laughing as they shot up the taiwanese boat.

 

Good job by the NBI and the Philippine government investigating this incident.

 

We've asserted our jurisdiction over this incident and conducted the investigation fairly to the satisfaction of both parties proving the naysayers wrong.

 

So who here is confident that the investigation will be thorough and fair? Raise your hands.

 

If you were Taiwan, would you trust the NBI? Filipinos themselves don't trust the NBI lol.

 

 

oh this is rich. do you just have a hard on for my posts or did someone blow his bitch whistle and sic you on the one person who posited the PCG actions were possibly an overreaction? if you're so bent on showing inconsistencies then why focus on my inconsistencies and not your beloved master's hmm? have you been fair?

 

if you agree with the NBI findings, then you agree with the points i initially brought up. caught between the monster and the deep blue sea, you don't seem to have the balls to say maybe you were wrong to call me a traitor for questioning our actions, legitimately question them as it turns out, given that the PCG have been charged with murder, which means my points were v-a-l-i-d. at least when i'm wrong i have the guts to say so.

 

when i asked that question you quoted about the NBI...who here defended them? was i not right to say filipinos don't trust the NBI e kahit ngayon ang daming nagsasabing ginawa lang yon ng NBI to appease Taiwan. e di tama ako di ba?

 

 

good job by the Philippine government? lol. what happened to all here who said good job by the PCG huh?

 

by the way, writing 101, if you're going to quote someone, indicate when you edit out sentences. tsk tsk.

Edited August 14, 2013 by dungeonbaby

[heatseeker0714]

US building of command posts near disputed Spratlys sparked outrage

 

 

"According to the Philippine Marine official, the plan is to station 50 to 60 US marines in Palawan as an advance command post in West Philippine Sea."

 

Hmmm... Interesting...

 

(Can't post the link, nangangapa pa lang sa iPad... Its in Globalbalita.com)

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

US building of command posts near disputed Spratlys sparked outrage

 

 

"According to the Philippine Marine official, the plan is to station 50 to 60 US marines in Palawan as an advance command post in West Philippine Sea."

 

Hmmm... Interesting...

 

(Can't post the link, nangangapa pa lang sa iPad... Its in Globalbalita.com)

If the Chinese are outraged by this latest development, then good. If it means their belligerency will be balanced out by the American presence, then good. The ironic thing is leftist groups would take the side of China. They would be outraged by the American presence on Philippine soil.

[hit05]

If the Chinese are outraged by this latest development, then good. If it means their belligerency will be balanced out by the American presence, then good. The ironic thing is leftist groups would take the side of China. They would be outraged by the American presence on Philippine soil.

Unfortunately, "the side of China" is being confused by this administration since they create an illusion that they are adherents of ONE CHINA Policy when they massacred the tourists from Hong Kong and then when the BFAR official sprayed bullets on the Taiwanese fishing boat, killing its captain. There is so much dishonesty dealing with the issue and no TRUTH is coming out despite the fact that illegal logging and illegal mining are rampant in the countrysides because mainland China is buying all the illegal produce. Conservationists deal with protecting endangered wildlife species by banning and making illegal trade of products made from them; how come nothing is being done about mainland Chinese buying all these illegal stuff, with DENR as main sponsor of the operation?

[maxiev]

If the Chinese are outraged by this latest development, then good. If it means their belligerency will be balanced out by the American presence, then good. The ironic thing is leftist groups would take the side of China. They would be outraged by the American presence on Philippine soil.

They would rather see a Chinese presence in Philippine territory than an American presence. Fortunately, they are a very small minority. Small but noisy.

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

They would rather see a Chinese presence in Philippine territory than an American presence. Fortunately, they are a very small minority. Small but noisy.

Noisy and aggressive. But haven't they always been this way? They became the bogeyman of Marcos. The convenient scapegoat that Marcos used to justify the imposition of martial law in 1972. So ironically, it's these very people who ushered in martial law.

[jacuzzi]

Noisy and aggressive. But haven't they always been this way? They became the bogeyman of Marcos. The convenient scapegoat that Marcos used to justify the imposition of martial law in 1972. So ironically, it's these very people who ushered in martial law.

Yup, you only need to watch who's who in the Corona impeachment trial to realize the problem. There is an informal organization that got its claws all over government. It may be feeding on the Jueteng racket for decades, which Marcos allowed to operate and thrive. This is perhaps the group that created the scenario for Ninoy to become hero and oust Marcos once and for all too. Let us remember that Ninoy willingly accepted his fate and knew the plan, even the ascent of his wife who he refers to as being the "stronger" person. No wonder Ninoy's death was never resolved despite the full support of people power.

 

 

[heatseeker0714]

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/10/21/2013102101068.html

 

China Asked Korea Not to Sell Jets to Philippines

 

China asked Korea not to sell FA-50 fighter jets to the Philippines, the Yomiuri Shimbun reported Saturday. The daily said Beijing made the request ahead of a summit in Seoul between President Park Geun-hye and Philippines President Benigno Aquino on Oct. 17.

 

Korea declined, saying it cannot accept "interference" in arms exports, an issue of its national interest, according to the daily.

 

In their meeting, Park thanked Aquino for Manila’s decision to buy the FA-50 jets and urged a speedy signing of the contract.

 

 

Thanks to the PRC Government, the Kimchi eaters are now more determined to sell us those birds...

[maxiev]

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/10/21/2013102101068.html

 

China Asked Korea Not to Sell Jets to Philippines

 

China asked Korea not to sell FA-50 fighter jets to the Philippines, the Yomiuri Shimbun reported Saturday. The daily said Beijing made the request ahead of a summit in Seoul between President Park Geun-hye and Philippines President Benigno Aquino on Oct. 17.

 

Korea declined, saying it cannot accept "interference" in arms exports, an issue of its national interest, according to the daily.

 

In their meeting, Park thanked Aquino for Manila’s decision to buy the FA-50 jets and urged a speedy signing of the contract.

 

 

Thanks to the PRC Government, the Kimchi eaters are now more determined to sell us those birds...

Nice. It's a good thing Korea doesn't cave in to pressure even from its powerful neighbor to the west. How that will affect South Korean-Chinese relations remains to be seen.

[Bugatti Veyron]

http://english.chosu...3102101068.html

 

China Asked Korea Not to Sell Jets to Philippines

 

China asked Korea not to sell FA-50 fighter jets to the Philippines, the Yomiuri Shimbun reported Saturday. The daily said Beijing made the request ahead of a summit in Seoul between President Park Geun-hye and Philippines President Benigno Aquino on Oct. 17.

 

Korea declined, saying it cannot accept "interference" in arms exports, an issue of its national interest, according to the daily.

 

In their meeting, Park thanked Aquino for Manila's decision to buy the FA-50 jets and urged a speedy signing of the contract.

 

 

Thanks to the PRC Government, the Kimchi eaters are now more determined to sell us those birds...

China is a major exporter of weapons to several countries including several Islamic nations. How it can sell weapons and then tell another country to refrain from selling weapons to certain countries it has disputes with shows the arrogance of the Chinese leadership. I'm glad South Korea rejected the call of Beijing to sell aircraft to the Philippines.

[maxiev]

Noisy and aggressive. But haven't they always been this way? They became the bogeyman of Marcos. The convenient scapegoat that Marcos used to justify the imposition of martial law in 1972. So ironically, it's these very people who ushered in martial law.

Yeah so true. They did give Marcos the justification for declaring martial law. The situation then was one of chaos. Many people actually welcomed martial law initially since order was restored, discipline observed.

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

Yeah so true. They did give Marcos the justification for declaring martial law. The situation then was one of chaos. Many people actually welcomed martial law initially since order was restored, discipline observed.

Yeah but the enthusiasm with which Filipinos welcomed martial law quickly evaporated as soon as the regime's excesses became apparent. Word of political killings, the extravagant spending of Imelda, suppression of human rights, and the general absence of any form of justice alarmed a lot of people. Pretty soon that alarm turned to outrage which climaxed when Ninoy Aquino was assassinated on August 21, 1983.

[Larry]

Brilliant piece by the NY times on this whole south china sea affair, what it means to the Philippines and the region, how the US sees it, and what it's like on Ayungin

 

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/

[Bugatti Veyron]

Brilliant piece by the NY times on this whole south china sea affair, what it means to the Philippines and the region, how the US sees it, and what it's like on Ayungin

 

http://www.nytimes.c...outh-china-sea/

 

That 'ghost ship' is a pretty desolate place to be assigned in. I wonder if the marines stationed there are relieved by other marines. In a way it's like a prison of sorts. Living conditions there must be pretty awful. But these men do what most of us will refuse to do all in the name of duty and for country. Their commitment to upholding the sovereignty of the Philippines is commendable.

[sonnyt111]

Brilliant piece by the NY times on this whole south china sea affair, what it means to the Philippines and the region, how the US sees it, and what it's like on Ayungin

 

http://www.nytimes.c...outh-china-sea/

Great find bro Larry. Thanks for sharing.

[heatseeker0714]

That 'ghost ship' is a pretty desolate place to be assigned in. I wonder if the marines stationed there are relieved by other marines. In a way it's like a prison of sorts. Living conditions there must be pretty awful. But these men do what most of us will refuse to do all in the name of duty and for country. Their commitment to upholding the sovereignty of the Philippines is commendable.

 

They are on a rotational basis... Even a few brand new 2LTs fresh from PMA wound up on that ship...

[Bugatti Veyron]

They are on a rotational basis... Even a few brand new 2LTs fresh from PMA wound up on that ship...

That's good to know. Staying on that ship for an extended period of time would be akin to a prison sentence. They even have to catch their own food. Still I think these marines are still better off than those exposed to actual combat. Their only real enemy on that ship would be boredom.

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

They are on a rotational basis... Even a few brand new 2LTs fresh from PMA wound up on that ship...

How long would a marine be assigned to a ship like this? What essentially is their function while they are there? Spying?

[heatseeker0714]

How long would a marine be assigned to a ship like this? What essentially is their function while they are there? Spying?

 

Not necessarily spying... Every Nguyen, Wang and Mohammed in the area knows about the presence of our boys in that area... Monitoring is a more apt word... Monitoring and informing Wescom on the activities happening around their location...

 

They get rotated every couple of weeks...

[oscartamaguchiblackface]

Not necessarily spying... Every Nguyen, Wang and Mohammed in the area knows about the presence of our boys in that area... Monitoring is a more apt word... Monitoring and informing Wescom on the activities happening around their location...

 

They get rotated every couple of weeks...

Ok thanks for the quick reply. I imagine being on that tub for a couple of weeks may seem like a couple of years for these marines. Certainly not a place for people who are afraid of spooky places.

[mokong10101]

Realistically walang patutunguhan ang pag-"modernize" ng pinas ng armas at sandatahan. For every "modern" fighter or craft na mabibili naten, the Chinese has 500 or more of it.

 

Hindi din tayo pwedeng umasa sa so-called "allies" nten (United States) dahil gagawin lang tayong proxy ng mga kano sa gyera nila ng China.

 

Hindi din nten maaasahan ang United Nations dahil inutil na organisasyon yan. Ang tunay na kapangyarihan sa UN ay nasa security council at isa ang China na myembro nun.

 

The best way to deal with this matter para matapos na ay just go into a 50-50 deal with China.

 

At the same time to combat the threat of China ang Pinas will MANDATE every Filipino Family na walang criminal record to start buying guns. Not handguns but rifles.

 

Of course ayaw ng freemason na nakapalibot ke pinoy nito. Ayaw din ng gobyerno, pulis at militar dahil di na nila magagawa ang katarantaduhan nila ng walang habas.