Team Pilipinas Basketball

[Liar]

 

Sir Hastati, ang pinaguusapan po ay Gilas team vs. Iran. E dati rati lagi tayong kampeon sa Asia e ngayon makapasok lang sa semis hirap pa tayo.

 

Caidic uses screens and picks to his advantage but if the defense is still on him, he would use his pump fake to throw the opponent offguard to release his shot. Since Caidic stop playing I have not seen a Filipino player who is as deadly as the triggerman. If there is one in this Gilas team that is as good a shooter as the triggerman then problem solved! But WHO???

 

For someone that thinks that ONLY HEIGHT is required to match-up with an opponent that is as tall but would be the better athelete ... just like saying that China could beat the US since Yao can match-up with Howard. The Chinese guard and forwards are both quick and tall just like thier US counterparts like CP3, Kidd, Deron W. Kobe, LBJ, Melo, Wade, Bosh etc. So why could these Chinese not be top 3 in the World?

 

 

 

 

[Guest hastati]

Sir Hastati, ang pinaguusapan po ay Gilas team vs. Iran. E dati rati lagi tayong kampeon sa Asia e ngayon makapasok lang sa semis hirap pa tayo.-Sa pagkakaalam ko, ngayon lang ang SG at ang Iran nagtagpo.

 

Caidic uses screens and picks to his advantage but if the defense is still on him, he would use his pump fake to throw the opponent offguard to release his shot. Since Caidic stop playing I have not seen a Filipino player who is as deadly as the triggerman. If there is one in this Gilas team that is as good a shooter as the triggerman then problem solved! But WHO???-You haven't seen a shooter as deadly as the triggerman? Kilala mo ba sina Caguioa, Miller, Racela, Seigle, at James Yap? Casio and Barroca are good shooters. Hindi pa naman final ang line-up para sa Asiad.

For someone that thinks that ONLY HEIGHT is required to match-up with an opponent that is as tall but would be the better athelete ... just like saying that China could beat the US since Yao can match-up with Howard. The Chinese guard and forwards are both quick and tall just like thier US counterparts like CP3, Kidd, Deron W. Kobe, LBJ, Melo, Wade, Bosh etc. So why could these Chinese not be top 3 in the World?-Alam mo peithe or celts or liar, Toroman is doing a good job of whipping SG into shape by making them play in a couple of international tournaments before the Asiad. To answer your question peithe, the level of basketball in China is much lower than the top 3 in the world which I would presume are Argentina, Spain and the US and not necessarily in that order meaning the players of these countries are much more athletic, are better shooters/passers and are more physical

Edited July 20, 2010 by hastati

[alpardpba]

yeah caidic was hounded, but not just by 1 player but by 2 players most of the time, now if there was another caidic on that squad, those teams would be punished for the double-teams; still, caidic represented the philippines well nung time niya, respected by foreign teams.

high-screens are good, pero if run repeatedly, i'm pretty sure foreign teams will/would adjust accordingly and expose our limitations in terms of height at the 2/3.

caidic was good for the 2/3, but then that was 20 years ago :-)

 

pero siguro nga madami pang mangyayari, hopefully players like jamesyap will suit up for the asian games. also mahirap din talaga kasi iba-iba ang style ng mga teams pero limited ka lang to 12 (15?) players, so swertihan din. and then kahit prepared ka, pwede ma-undo lahat by spotty officiating or by ref/s with an agenda.

 

yung china team, untouchable si yao, pero their team has trouble sa 1 positiion -- yung guards ng ibang teams (and particularly usa) would expose the spotty ballhandling-passing ng pg ng china, no doubt the chinese pg have height and speed-athleticism, pero the pg position needs skills and yun ang kulang sila. yung pg natin, kulang sa height so pwede talaga ma-expose sa defense, pero sa speed and playmaking ability, i would say ok na tayo sa 1.

[Guest hastati]

yeah caidic was hounded, but not just by 1 player but by 2 players most of the time, now if there was another caidic on that squad, those teams would be punished for the double-teams; still, caidic represented the philippines well nung time niya, respected by foreign teams.

high-screens are good, pero if run repeatedly, i'm pretty sure foreign teams will/would adjust accordingly and expose our limitations in terms of height at the 2/3.

caidic was good for the 2/3, but then that was 20 years ago :-)-I think Toroman will adjust accordingly and he'll remedy a mismatch when he sees one.

pero siguro nga madami pang mangyayari, hopefully players like jamesyap will suit up for the asian games. also mahirap din talaga kasi iba-iba ang style ng mga teams pero limited ka lang to 12 (15?) players, so swertihan din. and then kahit prepared ka, pwede ma-undo lahat by spotty officiating or by ref/s with an agenda.-Yup just like our first game in the 2007 FIBA-Asia nung tinawagan ng technical si Chot against Iran.

 

yung china team, untouchable si yao, pero their team has trouble sa 1 positiion -- yung guards ng ibang teams (and particularly usa) would expose the spotty ballhandling-passing ng pg ng china, no doubt the chinese pg have height and speed-athleticism, pero the pg position needs skills and yun ang kulang sila. yung pg natin, kulang sa height so pwede talaga ma-expose sa defense, pero sa speed and playmaking ability, i would say ok na tayo sa 1.-Yao won't be playing for China this Asiad but Yi will. China but will be hard to beat but not as hard without Yao.

Edited July 20, 2010 by hastati

[Liar]

@Hastati, this will prove that your knowledge that this is only the 1st time that Gilas lost to Iran is wrong. http://philbuzz.com/story.php?title=tough-iran-5-crushes-gilas-rp

 

Regarding the players you just mentioned which you said are as deadly as the triggerman, well let their international record speak for themselves. I believe all of them have been part of the PBA selection that represented the country in international tourneys and I don't concur. However, am just wondering why you mentioned these names when in fact they are not part of the Gilas team. So how can these players you mentioned that supposedly is as good as the triggerman help Gilas cause in getting a top 3 finish in the upcoming Asiad.

 

 

"the level of basketball in China is much lower than the top 3 in the world which I would presume are Argentina, Spain and the US and not necessarily in that order meaning the players of these countries are much more athletic, are better shooters/passers and are more physical " - What then makes you not think that players in the Asian region have not become much more athletic, better shooters/passers and are more physical than our local boys? For all you know the analogy is that just like China who is lording it over the Asian region The Philippines does too in the SEA Region but if competition becomes a notch higher ie. world for China and Asiad for RP then both are no longer top 3 material at this point. I think until proven otherwise, this theory holds.

 

:DI think I've said enough and your arguments are straying away ... I REST MY CASE AS I'VE SHOWN MY POINT!

 

 

[Guest hastati]

 

Regarding the players you just mentioned which you said are as deadly as the triggerman, well let their international record speak for themselves. I believe all of them have been part of the PBA selection that represented the country in international tourneys and I don't concur. However, am just wondering why you mentioned these names when in fact they are not part of the Gilas team. So how can these players you mentioned that supposedly is as good as the triggerman help Gilas cause in getting a top 3 finish in the upcoming Asiad.-peithe aka celts aka liar aka laker bandwagoner, wasn't this what you said in your earlier post "Since Caidic stop playing I have not seen a Filipino player who is as deadly as the triggerman". I just mentioned to you names of players who are good shooters just like Caidic.

 

 

"the level of basketball in China is much lower than the top 3 in the world which I would presume are Argentina, Spain and the US and not necessarily in that order meaning the players of these countries are much more athletic, are better shooters/passers and are more physical " - What then makes you not think that players in the Asian region have not become much more athletic, better shooters/passers and are more physical than our local boys? For all you know the analogy is that just like China who is lording it over the Asian region The Philippines does too in the SEA Region but if competition becomes a notch higher ie. world for China and Asiad for RP then both are no longer top 3 material at this point. I think until proven otherwise, this theory holds.-Of course, players from other countries in Asia have improved athletically and skillwise but the top 3 teams in the world are a cut or two above them. I already said my point earlier that SG has the height and speed to match-up with China, Iran, Lebanon, etc.

 

:DI think I've said enough and your arguments are straying away ... I REST MY CASE AS I'VE SHOWN MY POINT!-You should have rested your case much, much earlier. By the way, decide which nick you wanna use. Puede ba next time ang gamitin mong nick ay lakerbandwagoner?

[dencio]

You haven't seen a shooter as deadly as the triggerman? Kilala mo ba sina Caguioa, Miller, Racela, Seigle, at James Yap? Casio and Barroca are good shooters. Hindi pa naman final ang line-up para sa Asiad.

 

^^Comparing those players to Allan Caidic is a disservice to the Triggerman. Unfortunately, PBA stats aren't readily available on the 'net to back this up (if there is, appreciate if you can share the link). But the legendary shooting of Caidic is known far and wide. 20 years ago in Beijing, the Chinese were asked if they know any of Philippines' pro players - and the only name they mentioned was Caidic - the shooter. In an All-Star 3-pt contest a few years back, a long retired Caidic beat out several pros tow in the title. And, correct me if i am wrong, he still holds the PBA single game record for most Pts and 3s. Beat that!

 

Kung sila ay kasing galing ni Caidic dapat matagal na tayong nanalo ng Asian Games o FIBA Asia.

[Guest hastati]

You haven't seen a shooter as deadly as the triggerman? Kilala mo ba sina Caguioa, Miller, Racela, Seigle, at James Yap? Casio and Barroca are good shooters. Hindi pa naman final ang line-up para sa Asiad.

 

^^Comparing those players to Allan Caidic is a disservice to the Triggerman. Unfortunately, PBA stats aren't readily available on the 'net to back this up (if there is, appreciate if you can share the link). But the legendary shooting of Caidic is known far and wide. 20 years ago in Beijing, the Chinese were asked if they know any of Philippines' pro players - and the only name they mentioned was Caidic - the shooter. In an All-Star 3-pt contest a few years back, a long retired Caidic beat out several pros tow in the title. And, correct me if i am wrong, he still holds the PBA single game record for most Pts and 3s. Beat that!

 

Kung sila ay kasing galing ni Caidic dapat matagal na tayong nanalo ng Asian Games o FIBA Asia.

Bakit? Si Caidic lang ba ang player ng national team na magaling? The reason we won second place in the 1990 Asiad was coz of the coaching of Jawo. Our tallest player was only 6'5, si Realubit yet we managed to win a silver. Nung Centennial team, we only managed a bronze inspite of a 6'9 Aquino and a 7'0 Feihl with Caidic. Nung 1994, nandun si Caidic sa national team to the Asiad, bakit hindi tayo nanalo ng medal? Fans of Caidic will think of this statement as sacrilege but I'll say that mas madaling bantayan si Caidic kaysa kina Caguioa and Miller. You're glorifying Caidic too much.

Edited July 20, 2010 by hastati

[howarddeduct]

If we were grouped with South Korea in 1990, would we have won silver?

[photographer]

Basta, our neighbors' sports program (and that includes basketball) leapt by hundred folds pero dito sa atin medyo stagnant. Other national teams have improved a lot (well, they also have those tall players to rely on), the Philippines, with all the political savored programs, ganun pa rin. Its not that we have moved backward, its just that our neighbors have sports programs sponsored by politics-free people. Imagine, Japan, Korea na hindi naman basketball ang national pasttime nila, tinatalo pa tayo. Ni wala sa isip ng majority ng population nila ang basketball......baseball and/or soccer pa! I have watched Philippines vs. Lebanon last night and watched the fighting Philippine contingent slug it out with the Middle Eastern team kaya lang may laki at, to top it all, may bilis and great teammanship ang Lebanon talaga. Sayang ang pagod at pagsisisikap ng SG. They have the heart, they have the motivation with bossing MP and nice coach in Toroman, BUT still the factors of a great basketball team is still not there.

[howarddeduct]

Relax lang kayo. Itinatago pa ng mga players natin ang kanilang monster game!

[Guest hastati]

If we were grouped with South Korea in 1990, would we have won silver?

Most probably we would have still gotten the silver. Nandyan kasi si Caidic eh! Sabi nga ng isang kababayan natin na kung meron lang sana kasinggaling ni Caidic sa mga succeeding national teams ay dati pa tayo champion sa Asiad or FIBA.

Edited July 21, 2010 by hastati

[CELTS]

Bakit? Si Caidic lang ba ang player ng national team na magaling? The reason we won second place in the 1990 Asiad was coz of the coaching of Jawo. Our tallest player was only 6'5, si Realubit yet we managed to win a silver. Nung Centennial team, we only managed a bronze inspite of a 6'9 Aquino and a 7'0 Feihl with Caidic. Nung 1994, nandun si Caidic sa national team to the Asiad, bakit hindi tayo nanalo ng medal? Fans of Caidic will think of this statement as sacrilege but I'll say that mas madaling bantayan si Caidic kaysa kina Caguioa and Miller. You're glorifying Caidic too much.

 

 

kaya siguro di na nanalo nun 1994 kasi wala na si EJ

 

 

 

[Guest hastati]

^Corny As I'm typing this, yung alternick mo na si liar ay nagsusulat din. Make up your mind sino ang gusto mong gamitin na nick. lakerbandwagoner na lang kasi bagay na bagay sayo.

Edited July 21, 2010 by hastati

[Liar]

The fact is we now have the height to match-up with tall teams. As I said in my previous post, SG's shooters can be freed up by picks or didn't you even think about it? But if you didn't, I wouldn't be surprised. If leading Iran to the Olympics doesn't speak volumes as to the genius of Toroman, then I don't know what will. Take note, in terms of talent, SG is better than Iran.

 

 

 

Can't you even follow your own post?

 

You're talking about SG's shooters which could be freed up by picks. I gave Caidic as an example as one of the best ever shooters we had. Now, why argue whether Caidic is really the best or not. Also, why ennumerate a bunch of PBA players as better shooters than the triggerman. All is needed to prove your contention is to name a current SG player that is a better shooter than CAIDIC. Obviously you did not and can't name one.

 

Incidentally, the Gilas team lost to Lebanon and this is what Coach Rajo has to say:

 

“We knew we’re weak on the No. 4 and No. 5 positions. It’s very difficult to get the rebounds with a small size. We’ll solve this in getting a PBA player (Williams) who’s a good, quick rebounding forward,” Toroman told the international media.

 

That was really a great eyepopping opener to someone that claims "THE FACT IS WE NOW HAVE THE HEIGHT TO MATCH UP WITH TALL TEAMS" I guess Williams is not yet in the line-up NOW right?

 

 

With the loss to Lebanon we end up 4th in the Jones Cup wherein we lost also to Iran and Japan. All these teams are also preparing for the Asaid just like team RP. I guess if you expect this Gilas team to peak in a few months time so would be the case for the other teams. What then would be the difference???

[junix]

Relax lang kayo. Itinatago pa ng mga players natin ang kanilang monster game!

not to mention kelly williams has yet to play with SG. he'll certainly add depth to toroman's bench.

[Guest hastati]

Can't you even follow your own post?

 

You're talking about SG's shooters which could be freed up by picks. I gave Caidic as an example as one of the best ever shooters we had. Now, why argue whether Caidic is really the best or not. Also, why ennumerate a bunch of PBA players as better shooters than the triggerman. All is needed to prove your contention is to name a current SG player that is a better shooter than CAIDIC. Obviously you did not and can't name one.- Si dencio yung katunggali ko sa topic na to at hindi ikaw. Pumapapel ka na naman aso. Bulag ka ba? I already said Barroca and Casio are good shooters. You can add Baracael and Tiu to the list. Bopols!

 

Incidentally, the Gilas team lost to Lebanon and this is what Coach Rajo has to say:

 

“We knew we’re weak on the No. 4 and No. 5 positions. It’s very difficult to get the rebounds with a small size. We’ll solve this in getting a PBA player (Williams) who’s a good, quick rebounding forward,” Toroman told the international media.

 

That was really a great eyepopping opener to someone that claims "THE FACT IS WE NOW HAVE THE HEIGHT TO MATCH UP WITH TALL TEAMS" I guess Williams is not yet in the line-up NOW right? -He's not. Ano bang height ni Douthit, Slaughter at Aguilar? Bopols! By the way, hindi mo naman nasagot mga tanong ko. Obviously barado ka na naman bopols.

 

With the loss to Lebanon we end up 4th in the Jones Cup wherein we lost also to Iran and Japan. All these teams are also preparing for the Asaid just like team RP. I guess if you expect this Gilas team to peak in a few months time so would be the case for the other teams. What then would be the difference???-Warm-up tournament lang to celts. Obviously, Toroman is still in the "feeling-out" stage as to who will best be included in the Asiad. Hindi mo nasagot mga tanong ko. What happened? Tongue-tied again or hindi ka makasagot coz you have a pea for brains?

[Liar]

Hastati It seems that you have the following opinions:

 

1. CAIDIC = the likes of "Barroca and Casio are good shooters. You can add Baracael and Tiu"

2. WE NOW HAVE THE HEIGHT TO MATCH UP WITH TALL TEAMS =Douthit, Slaughter at Aguilar

 

 

Comments:

1. What these guys have achieved so far in their careers is quite far compared to the feats of CAIDIC. Ang layong ipaghambing na un ginagawa ni Caidic sa international competitions dati e magagawa consistently ng mga ito. San nga pala ang height ng mga shooters na ito? Sa pagkakaalam ko 6'2 si triggerman na mukhang si Baracael lang ang kayang tumingin sa kanya ng eye level pag parehong nakatayo.

 

2. As I said again and again, it not a matter of matching a 7 footer against one. You must also compare the talent of these guys to thier opponent. Kaya nga sinabi ni TOROMAN na mahina pa tayo sa 4 & 5 kahit na naglalakihan na ang mga ito. E sana kung simpleng pantayan lang ng tangkad dapat sinama na nila si Marlou ulit na 6'9". Sa pagkakaalam ko paso na kontrata niyan sa Sta Lucia. Tapos si EJ na 7 flat din na wala namang team na pinaglalaruan kasama si Balingit. Baka sakaling sabihin mo na now we don't only have the height to match up with TALL TEAMS, in fact we have the advantage!

[Guest hastati]

Hastati It seems that you have the following opinions:

 

1. CAIDIC = the likes of "Barroca and Casio are good shooters. You can add Baracael and Tiu"

2. WE NOW HAVE THE HEIGHT TO MATCH UP WITH TALL TEAMS =Douthit, Slaughter at Aguilar

 

 

Comments:

1. What these guys have achieved so far in their careers is quite far compared to the feats of CAIDIC. Ang layong ipaghambing na un ginagawa ni Caidic sa international competitions dati e magagawa consistently ng mga ito. San nga pala ang height ng mga shooters na ito? Sa pagkakaalam ko 6'2 si triggerman na mukhang si Baracael lang ang kayang tumingin sa kanya ng eye level pag parehong nakatayo.-So malaki na pala para sayo yung 2-inch difference?

 

2. As I said again and again, it not a matter of matching a 7 footer against one. You must also compare the talent of these guys to thier opponent. Kaya nga sinabi ni TOROMAN na mahina pa tayo sa 4 & 5 kahit na naglalakihan na ang mga ito. E sana kung simpleng pantayan lang ng tangkad dapat sinama na nila si Marlou ulit na 6'9". Sa pagkakaalam ko paso na kontrata niyan sa Sta Lucia. Tapos si EJ na 7 flat din na wala namang team na pinaglalaruan kasama si Balingit. Baka sakaling sabihin mo na now we don't only have the height to match up with TALL TEAMS, in fact we have the advantage!-Bopols! Why would you even mention Marlou Aquino when that guy is washed up. I've seen Slaughter play and I liked what I saw. Just a little polishing on his low-post moves. Aguilar should bulk up. He's quick for 6'9 and could give other small forwards problems if Toroman uses a tall line-up of Slaughter, Douthit and Aguilar.

[CELTS]

@Hastati

 

Seems like you're missing the point ...

 

The issue I believe with Caidic vs the bunch of names you mentioned is whether these so called shooters of Gilas are as good as a Caidic.

 

As far as your Gilas Big Men is concerned, Toroman says it all "WE'RE STILL WEAK in the 4/5 POSITION". I'd rather believe what an insider is saying as he's the one who really monitors the development of these bigs. The Asiad is 4 months away. Don't expect drastic improvement in these guys.

 

When NCC last won an international title for the Philippines, the team clealy was already sharp months before the tournament evidenced by winning a PBA title and the Jones Cup. The Gilas did not win the club championship it previously joined and also placed 4th in the just concluded Jones Cup clearly there is much catching up to do and time is not on our side to wait for the full potential of these players. As such most likely not in this Asiad.

[Guest hastati]

@Hastati

 

Seems like you're missing the point ...

 

The issue I believe with Caidic vs the bunch of names you mentioned is whether these so called shooters of Gilas are as good as a Caidic.-The guys from SG are good shooters. They haven't been playing basketball as long as Caidic but they are good shooters which is why Toroman chose them.

 

As far as your Gilas Big Men is concerned, Toroman says it all "WE'RE STILL WEAK in the 4/5 POSITION". I'd rather believe what an insider is saying as he's the one who really monitors the development of these bigs. The Asiad is 4 months away. Don't expect drastic improvement in these guys.-You don't expect drastic improvements but I know that Toroman will whip SG into shape come Asiad time. The coach has vast international basketball knowledge. If his work with Iran doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what will. Continue doubting bandwagoner.

 

When NCC last won an international title for the Philippines, the team clealy was already sharp months before the tournament evidenced by winning a PBA title and the Jones Cup. The Gilas did not win the club championship it previously joined and also placed 4th in the just concluded Jones Cup clearly there is much catching up to do and time is not on our side to wait for the full potential of these players. As such most likely not in this Asiad.-Everybody is entitled to his opinion. That's your opinion. I won't argue with you on that.

[CELTS]

Just wondering Hastati why you're blindly optimistic on Gilas now when before you said they don't even have a chance and insist on Powerade?

 

As for me, I do support this team from the start. Let me again remind you let you forget whom you had a exchange of opinion as whom to send to the Asiad then ... I said Gilas you said Powerade. I am not doubting,just being realistic in my assessment on this team.

 

Yes Gilas has good shooters, but are they as good a Caidic? Don't think so. Yes Coach Rajo can get these guys into shape come Asiad I don't doubt that. But the coach can only do so much. In the end the players go to battle. If they are not at par talent-skill-wise (when in fact Coach Rajo already said so in terms of our Bigs) no way we'd win even if Coach K will be coaching this team in the Asiad.

[Sl@MDuNk_Mitsui14]

Bottom line is, no matter what happens, Pinoys should never stop believing in our National Team that they can bring home the gold in the Asiad, win the Asian championships and finally make it to the Olympics. We may not achieve it sooner but at least our leaders are doing something about it, and I think we're headed in the right direction as far as developing our young talents (with just a few exceptions though).

[CELTS]

Bottom line is, no matter what happens, Pinoys should never stop believing in our National Team that they can bring home the gold in the Asiad, win the Asian championships and finally make it to the Olympics. We may not achieve it sooner but at least our leaders are doing something about it, and I think we're headed in the right direction as far as developing our young talents (with just a few exceptions though).

 

I agree ... never stop believing! It may not be in this Asiad but one day we can again bring home the bacon.

 

Being Patriotic does not mean we continue to blindly say that such (unrealistic) goals are achievable despite to facts pointing otherwise. It's a matter of supporting this team and keeping our heads up high despite a last place finish so long as we all know that this team did its best.

 

GO GILAS!!!

[RED2018]

Bottom line is, no matter what happens, Pinoys should never stop believing in our National Team that they can bring home the gold in the Asiad, win the Asian championships and finally make it to the Olympics. We may not achieve it sooner but at least our leaders are doing something about it, and I think we're headed in the right direction as far as developing our young talents (with just a few exceptions though).

 

Very well said!!!

 

It's a work/project in progress...Sana lang may sustainability at relentless ang collective efforts ng stakeholders with great public support