PacMan's Corner

[tony_0979]

i hope pacquiao knocks Morales' head off.  then barrera too.

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the purse is the bottom line. win or lose he stands to earn more

[redax]

If he loses to Morales, I don't think Barrera will give him a shot at the title.

[bubuy]

i added a poll to spice things up..

[brawler201]

i added a poll to spice things up..

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Regardless of crowns, a date with Manny Pacquiao is the best payday for any of the top featherweights. A Pcquiao-Morales II or a a Pacquiao-Barrera II will earn more for everyone than a fourth instalment of Barrera-Morales. As long as Pacquiao remains exciting and fun to watch, he will always get a big money fight. Regardless of the final result of the next fight with Morales, as long as he fights with the same heart and big fists, he will always have a clear path to the cash register. He probably has at least 3 more big money fights and that's only because Barrera and Morales are getting older.

 

Manny will be rich beyond his dreams before he hangs up his gloves if he knows how to take care of his money. However, I would also want Manny though to cement his legacy as a great champion by going after another title or so. Maybe move down to featherweight when there is no big money fight then go after version of the jr featherweight crown. Heck, he can probably get a piece of the lightweight title. He deserves his place in history as the first asian boxer to win title in 3 different weight divisions.

[redax]

Barrera has expressed his desire to fight lightweight already and Morales already did. Pacquiao does not get as much money unless fighting with these 2 and his too small to fight lightweight. Even if he fights Marquez, the pay just won't be as much. If he loses again to Morales, he will definitely lose value in terms of prize money. Remember he only fought for some piss ant title against Velasquez. He's not even a ring magazine's people's champ at super featherweight. Barrera was only able to be a legitimate champ even without any belt because he kept winning, or immediately avenged losses. If you lose twice to the same guy, that means you're not the champ, and not being the champ in you're division, you don't make as much.

[brawler201]

Mods Pls. delete my earlier post. I can't seem to make use of the edit function. Thanks.

_______

 

 

Its way past titles now. As long as Manny doesn't get his ass handed to him on a plate, he will always draw big money with these two. And that's the advantage of having already caught the public's attention. Title belts don't guarantee big purses. What guarantees it is the willingness of the public to pay to watch fights. And this is one threesome that has the boxing world by its feet. Throw the titles away, this is just boxing at its purest form. They can fight barefisted and shirtless in the back alleys of Tijuana or Tondo for a pack of cigarettes, and somebody can just have a live feed and tons of people will still fork out $ 40 for PPV. It has turned out out to be a three cornered pissing contest between Morales, Barrera and Pacquiao and it will always sell. The personalities, rivalries and styles have taken over and are bigger than titles. And losing more than once to anyone in this small circle will not diminish the tres amigos drawing power as long as the fights are exciting and no one gets beaten senseless.

 

Loyalty lines have been drawn on diferent levels, Mexicans v. Pinoys, Latinos v. Asians, Mexicans v. Mexicans, pro-boxers v. pro-brawlers, that the public will not rightfully concede that any of the three actualy lost any fight against each other squarely. Even the protagonists won't admit defeat. Each will lay claim that they rightfully won every fight against the other, which they have, and at the end of the day, the paying public will just say: "heck, let's forget about the last fight and have another one to settle things finally. Again". And this will go on and on, and this is my caveat, as long as the three of them fight at a high level of boxing and remain exciting to watch. Damn, Barrera was knocked three times by Pacuiao and he wouldn't even admit that he lost squarely. How much more squarely can you lose than being banged around for 11 rounds like a dummy, knocked down silly 3 times for the first time in his career and your corner throwing in the towel. But that's just the way of legends. They never really lose. The legend just becomes bigger.

 

If titles were an issue or even previous fights then logic dictate that Morales has no right to be in the ring with Manny because he lost to Raheem. Or Barrera for that matter. But the public doesn't care about that or if they have titles on the line. These three have already transcended being mere champions, they are already icons and legends and the public will keep on paying as long as they remain legends. And legends are given a little bit of elbow room. Losing to fellow legends and even the occasional lapses to mortality like what happened with Morales in the last Raheem fight. As long as they fight like legends when they meet each other.

 

But then again, you can only milk a series, even a three cornered variety, so much. At the end, the money will go away because the public will just get so used to it. And the three legends will have to move on. But I'm telling you there will still be a run for these three if they're smart to make good money. At least 2 big fights for each of them, 3 or more if its becomes really interesting and depeding on how the other divisions fare. Regardless of titles, these three will never make the same money fighting other people. And they will be crazy to think otherwise and avoid the big money fights now. They can move up in weight all they want and win 5 titles each for all I care but they will never make the same money that they have made or will make fighting each other.

 

Manny and his handlers have known this all along and was the main reason why he kept moving up in weight, to chase these two for big money fights. Pacquiao is a natural featherweight and could have wrecked havoc in that division if he stayed there but he chose to run after the big fish and has more than held his own. And this is what has endeared him to the fighting fans, his willingness to step into the ring, with an exciting brawling style and the chance to knockout the other guy senseless at any time. People know that they will get their money's worth fromthe Filipino gladiator everytime he stepped into the ring. This is what made him a People's Champion. Even if he has been defeated by Morales and Morales defeated by Barrera, Ring Magazine hasn't deemed it worthy to award the super-featherweight people's championship to either of the Mexicans. If there was anybody who made any ripple in this division as recognized by Ring Magazine, it was Manny Pacquiao when he surrendered his featherweight championship, which is still also vacant. Gives you the feeling that the over people at Ring Magazine are waiting for someone to claim the symbolic Super-Featherweight title.

 

On the side, I just want Manny to win another title just for the sake of the legacy as being the first asian to win more than 2 titles in diferent weight divisions which is really rare because of the peculiarities of the small physical stature of natural born asian boxers. After all the smoke has cleared in this three cornered epic, most of the magic cannot be caught on record regardless of what has been or will be written. Titles will be a good bookends to the tons of money that Pacman will make if only to cement his legend.

 

Final observation, Barrera will be crazy not to give Pacquiao a fight if only to avenge his most humiliating and Mexican macho stripping bitch slapping that he received from Manny. The money will be big. It doesn't even have to be a title fight. Make it a 12 round non-title fight, Manny will be there to brawl and to give the fans their money's worth. And to collect his multi-million dollar paycheck. Whaever the result, Manny will give a good account of himself and his legend is on solid footing. Barrera might be doubting his in avoiding another spanking from the Pacman.

[redax]

The fight against Raheem was lightweight so that doesn't count much because the 3 fight superfeather. Could be an indication that the 3 might not have an easy time in lightweights since Raheem is not really up the top in the lightweight division and he toyed with Morales. I hope Manny wins against Morales to guarantee big bucks after that fight. If he loses, we'll see if you're right. I hope you are by the way because his local trainers are all my buddies.

[brawler201]

Don't worry about it. I really feel that he's good for another 3 fights regardless of the outcome. And that's what some esteemed fight analyst are saying as well with the strength of the threesome. As long as they show up. Of course with the caveat that he doesn't get laid out like a cheap rug. Meaning if he fights his exciting style and keeps it close, the interest will still be there. If he wins, sky's the limit. Remember that boxing is still about the Benjamins.

 

The beauty of the threesome is that they are all "kontrapelos" in style. Manny will always have a hard time against a slick moving Morales. Morales should always have the upperhand against Barrera but he throws all style out of the window when they fight and just go at it like street thugs and the advantage tilts to Barrera's favor. Too much testosterone and Mexican pride in one ring. But Barrera will always have a hard time against a heavier punching Pacquiao. So close fights are always inconclusive in the eyes of the public and the public will always crave for more as long as it is exciting. And Pacquiao is always at a disadvantage because he's a natural lighter boxer than the two. If they all fought at 126 lbs, Paquiao will be all over them like fly on a cheap suit. Fighting heavier blokes with a brawling style and a big punch just endears Manny to fight fans and that what's makes him sellable.

 

The money draw of the threesome will come to a halt once one of them dominates the other two. So it will be to Manny's interest to keep fights close but he is indeed due for a big win against a marquee name.

[clipperjune]

News.

 

Barrera would be fighting Chavez for a lightweight title (Don't know kung anong alphabet belt ang paglalabanan nila). If he wins, boxing experts expect barrera to remain in the lightweight division or possibly retire. Don't expect a rematch of the Pacquiao Vs. Barrera, since Barrera himself said he doesn't have to prove anything since he defeated morales who defeated Manny. (Stupid logic by the way).

[brawler201]

^^I agree. Stupid logic. Specially with all the money that he stands to earn. By the way, the Chavez guy is the same Chavez that recently won over ex-WBC Lightweight Champion Leavander Johnson who died from head injuries after the fight. Like I've said, Barrera is perfect for Pacquiao and everybody knows it. Maybe Barrera knows it even better. Barrera is just too macho to let his pride, that will get a beating from a possible defeat from Pacman, get in the way of a sure US $ 2M payday. Tama si Recah Trinidad when he called Barrera a Mexican yellow belly. Well here's another twist that I didn't consider, the threesome will collapse, along with the big money draw if one of them retires. Unless Barrera has a change of heart, that's the end of the real big money fights for Pacquiao and Morales regardless o the outcome of their fight. Marquez just won't get the same attention and interest as a Barrera.

[Koji21]

^^I agree. Stupid logic. Specially with all the money that he stands to earn. By the way, the Chavez guy is the same Chavez that recently won over ex-WBC Lightweight Champion Leavander Johnson who died from head injuries after the fight. Like I've said, Barrera is perfect for Pacquiao and everybody knows it.  Maybe Barrera knows it even better.  Barrera is just too macho to let his pride, that will get a beating from a possible defeat from Pacman, get in the way of a sure US $ 2M payday.  Tama si Recah Trinidad when he called Barrera a Mexican yellow belly. Well  here's another twist that I didn't consider, the threesome will collapse, along with the big money draw if one of them retires.  Unless Barrera has a change of heart, that's the end of the real big money fights for Pacquiao and Morales regardless o the outcome of their fight.  Marquez just won't get the same attention and interest as a Barrera.

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Great insights brawler201.

 

I feel the chances of Barrera-Morales IV is better than a Pac-Mab rematch. Although all 3 MAB-EM fights were close(I have it 2-1 in favor of Eric, the last bout being Marco's only win), Barrera has a better chance of beating Morales than Pacman. As you stated, all strategy goes out the window once Eric and Marco face-off, and this suits Marco better than Eric. However, Marco will always have his hands full against Manny's.

 

But I'm hoping to see another round robin for these guys, not just for us pinoys, but also for boxing's greater benefit. F?*k the ABCs.

 

Also, Marquez is now out of the picture, he chickened out of the Pac rematch. And his' style is really boring.

[brawler201]

^^Pero kahit boring si Marquez, delikado si Pacman dahil classic counterpuncher. That guy is good. Parang mini Morales, pero mas madaming suntok at mas maganda ang footwork. He will just outwork you. Ang lamang ni Pacquiao kay Marquez, of course, is the big punch and Marquez is not big enough like a Morales to take too much of a beating. Basta inabot yan, tutumba kay Manny. Kaya din may laban si Morales kay Manny dahil mas malaki siya. He may be a Jr. lightweight at the scales but I'm betting he has another 5-10 lbs on him by the time the bell rings for the first round. As I've said, let them fight at featherweight and Manny will have him for dessert.

 

Sobrang duwag ni Barrera. But he cannot live down the defeat to Pacquiao regardless of his skewered logic that he defeated the man who defeated the MAN. Once they show clips of his former fights, guess what would be at the top of the list: his bitch slapping from the Pacman. Kaya mas may respeto ako kay Morales dahil lalaban on principle. Makita sino ang mas magaling. Of course medyo may kumpiyansa siya dahil alam niyang mas malaki siya kay Manny at sa boxing, a good big man will always defeat a good small man, all other things being equal. At least si Morales, walang pakialam sa purse, sa lugar o sa titles. Kaya medyo din nanabang ako kay Marquez nung nag inarte sa purse.

 

But at the end of the day, regardless of his shortcomings, Manny gets all my respect when it comes to mojo because he has enough mojo for himself and two yellow bellied Mexicans. He fought everyone and challenged everyone. That hopefully will be enough to cement his legacy as one of the best ever featherweights even probably the best featherweight of his generation.

[Koji21]

Of course, Marquez has very excellent fundamentals. He's a very good counterpuncher, fairly fast hands and good balance. Syempre, trained by Nacho Beristain eh. But I'm not really sold on JMM, his' accomplishments include a stinker against Derrick Gainer(sabagay, lahat ng laban ni Gainer stinks ), a knockout of ancient Manuel Medina and his draw with Pacman, which he could have been KO'ed in the 1st. I scored it 6 rounds apiece with the 10-7 1st round=115-112.

 

If he fights any of the three(MAB, EM, MP) in the near future, baka magbago pa tingin ko sa kanya.

 

 

:cool:

[clipperjune]

Marquez is boring, but just like what brawler said he is a counter puncher. Put him in a fight with Manny and it would be an exiciting fight. He is not a push over, he is feared by both Prince Hamed, MAB and Erik before Manny came into the picture, the 3 ducking any mandatories against JMM.

 

The problem with marquez is he overestimated his worth, asking for ridiculous sum on the 2nd fight against Manny and the planned Morales fight. Blame it on his promoter/trainer Nacho.

[redax]

How true. Marquez may be better than them, he's just not popular in the US so he doesn't command that much of a price and its not worth it to tangle with him. He's not a good deal for Pacquiao definitely, less price for a hard fight. After the first round against Pacquiao, he redeemed himself thats for sure. That's one mean boxer. I mean, they have been dodging him.

[brawler201]

How do you guys think Louie Espinosa would have fared with these guys if Louie fought them during his prime? By prime I mean up to the second fight against Cesar Sotto in Albaquerque New Mexico which was more of a highway robbery than anything else. After that, Louie was just fed to the lions.

[redax]

That's a lot of boxer's to compare. Wish I were already at L @ M at that time so I would have also had the pleasure of working out with him. He was a better boxer than Pacquiao for sure. Manny only has he's devastating left and an amazing physical makeup. You should see this guy workout, 25 rounds and some of those rounds he doesn't take the minute in between resting. Even in doing roadwork, nobody in L @ M can keep up with him. He's resting heart rate is a lot lower than normal person. That's why he get's away with cramming his training before a fight. The wonder is, that topic never really comes up at the gym. You should have asked a week earlier, so I could have asked Mondejar when we were watching the The Fight for Love boxing fights last Saturday.

[brawler201]

I agree that Louie was the better boxer over all. Better skills, great counter puncher, good power and smarts. But Pacquiao with his killer straight and granite like chin would always level the playing field. And you are also right that Pacquiao indeed has a sturdy make up that's perfect for the toe to toe pro fighting style. I'm leaning towards comparing Louie's skill to that of Morales and will have a slight advantage over Pacquiao as long as he keeps Manny at bay and not get caught with any of his big bombs. Easier said than done of course. With the comparisson, I would give him a bigger chance of defeating Marco Barrera and even money on El Terible because of the similarity of style.

[Koji21]

I agree that Louie was the better boxer over all. Better skills, great counter puncher, good power and smarts.  But Pacquiao with his killer straight and granite like chin would always level the playing field.  And you are also right that Pacquiao indeed has a sturdy make up that's perfect for the toe to toe pro fighting style.  I'm leaning towards comparing Louie's skill to that of Morales and will have a slight advantage over Pacquiao as long as he keeps Manny at bay and not get caught with any of his big bombs. Easier said than done of course.  With the comparisson, I would give him a bigger chance of defeating Marco Barrera and even money on El Terible because of the similarity of style.

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Same here, I think that he's a slight favorite as long as he dictates the tempo and not get caught with a bomb from MP. But once Manny connects, it may be good night for Louie, as i'm really worried about his' knockout losses to Israel Contreras and Alejandro Gonzales(which he avenged later via ko).

 

Too bad we never saw Louie against "the boxer formerly known as Prince" Hamed around 96-97. With Hamed's wild swings and defenseless-defense, Louie would have punished him with the lefthook time and again.

[brawler201]

^^Hamed was another yellow belly. Probably won 3-4 fights against good fighters but he was fun to watch. Louie was the real king of the featherweights but it was the Prince who had the big money fights. This clown was so scared of Louie that instead of accepting a fight to unify the featherweight titles he in turn offered Louie a 6 fight-$ 2M deal under his promotion. Louie will fight 5 contenders and then the 6th fight would be for the featherweight unification match against the Prince. It was a classic set up, Louie ages and slows down in the 2 1/2 - 3 years that he will expend to complete 5 fights and would then be easy pickings. It didn't make a lot of sense for Louie then as the million dollar fight was a one time dance with Prince. But the Prince just danced away. His rep*tation didn't need the beating that it would take if he gets stretched out by the King. In hindsight, Louie should have taken the deal. He would have his $ 2M and would have had enough to take care of Hamed even if it took another 3 years before they actually met up.

 

That deal would have solved all of his money woes and would have probably afforded him the opportunity to retire earlier. Instead, his promoter America Presents sold him up the river when he refused an extension of their fight deal by facing a less dangerous Cesar Sotto in practically home soil in Albaquerque, New Mexico. You immediately have a bad feeling in your stomach that a robbery was in the menu when you fight a Latino boxer in the US and the whole fight was announced and broadcasted in Spanish. Extra red flags when all the judges had hispanic sounding last names. Louie just boxed and banged Sotto silly for 12 rounds. Heck it wasn't even close to the Manila Bay fight between the two where Louie probably fought the best fight of his life. But there was that sinking feeling when the announcer started to declare: "El nuevo campeon del mundo...".

 

It was downhill from there as Louie was abandoned by his handlers and was fed to the lions. Lion is probably to tame of a term, Louie was left to thieves is probably more apt.

[brawler201]

I'm starting to have that sinking feeling again. Pacquiao was again declared a 7-5 favorite by the Vegas bookies. It looks somebody wants to make a killing and Manny is being used as the bait. He better knock out Morales or he'llend up holding a very short stick at the end of the fight regardless of how much he outboxes El Terrible.

[Koji21]

I'm starting to have that sinking feeling again.  Pacquiao was again declared a 7-5 favorite by the Vegas bookies.  It looks somebody wants to make a killing and Manny is being used as the bait.  He better knock out Morales or he'llend up holding a very short stick at the end of the fight regardless of how much he outboxes El Terrible.

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Kelan lumabas yung odds?

 

Hmmm.....

 

Just finished watching again(3rd time) the Pacman-Eric bout. Two things I noticed, first, Manny kept moving straight backwards everytime Eric gets aggressive. Not much side stepping. Second, Manny would stop after his offensive, giving Eric time to counterpunch. Two things to improve on.

 

Brawler201, how do you think Louie Espinosa and Manny Pacquiao would have fared against Flash Elorde, probably at Junior Lightweight?

 

:thumbsupsmiley:

[brawler201]

I can't give a definite on this as I haven't had the previlage of seeing any of D' Flash's fights. But this is a very interesting match up. Calling some of the more "mature" boxing fans. Inputs please.

[brawler201]

Lumabas sa column ni Quinito Henson sa Phil. Star kahapon. So mga 2-3 days ago lumabas sa Vegas. Pinapainit ng oddsmakers ang mga chicano paro lalong tumaya.

[Koji21]

Lumabas sa column ni Quinito Henson sa Phil. Star kahapon. So mga 2-3 days ago lumabas sa Vegas.  Pinapainit ng oddsmakers ang mga chicano paro lalong tumaya.

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I've watched a couple of Flash Elorde's bouts(against Love Alloti ata yun, one bout with Sandy Saddler, and another with a Jap guy-the one he beat for the junior lightweight title). Medyo grainy yun, sa ESPN classics kasi. One thing I can say, may right sya sa title na best Filipino boxer. Haven't seen Pancho Villa though.

 

Member ka ba sa boxingtalk? May classics section dun sa message board, check it out. :cool: