Supplements - to Take or Not to Take?

[spitzky]

Are you just posting these for informational purposes?  Or are they part of one of your arguements? 

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both... read em, ull see...... those are about protein intake, acidosis...

enjoy :thumbsupsmiley:

[spitzky]

I'm not saying that soy protein is better than animal or milk protein.  Just that it isn't as scary as others make it.  As far as athletic performance goes please see below:

 

In his book, The Testosterone Syndrome, Eugene Shippen reported that when high levels of phytoestrogen's fit into a male's estrogen receptor sites, they stimulate the liver to process and excrete excess estrogen. There are initial indications that soy proteins block aromatase - the conversion of testosterone into estrogen - a concern for bodybuilders. Soy protein does not have estrogenic activity in males, so even consuming 300 grams of soy protein daily shouldn't have any anti-anabolic effects. The increases in muscle mass and decreases in body fat seen in soy protein supplementation studies with athletes further support the case that soy protein won't counteract anabolic processes in exercising individuals. No evidence exists that soy protein has estrogenic effects in athletes, and it may even have anabolic effects greater than milk proteins (the usual control-group supplement in these studies).

 

Soy protein has many health promoting and disease preventing qualities in addition to it's proven value as a superior protein for athletic performance. Soy protein has been shown in more than two hundred published scientific studies to: decrease plasma cholesterol; reduce the risk of Coronary Heart Disease; reduce the risk of certain cancers including breast cancer and prostate cancer; reduce the risk of osteoporosis; and to decrease the load placed on the kidneys. For long term fitness training with the added benefits of helping to maintain optimum good health and disease prevention over one's lifetime, soy protein deserves respect as an ideal protein for all humans, including elite athletes and hard-lifting bodybuilders.

 

References

 

Stroescu V, Dragan 1, Georgescu E. "Effects of Supro brand isolated soy protein supplement in male and female elite rowers." XXVth FIMS World Congress of Sports Medicine. Athens, Greece, 1994.

Dragan 1, Georgescu E, losub I, Baloescu R, "Effects of Supro Brand isolated soy protein supplement in top swimmers." Xth FINA World Sports Medicine congress, Kyoto, Japan, 1993.

Min HG, et al. "Effects of Supro high-energy beverage powder on physiological functions of athletes." CSSC-Chinese National training Bureau States Sports Medicine Commission Study. 1994.

Forsythe WA. "Soy protein, thyroid regulation, and cholesterol metabolism." Journal offutrition. 123.3;619S-623S (1995) 5) Nickerson HJ, Tripp HJ. "Iron deficiency in adolescent cross-country runners." Phys. Sports Med. 11:60 (1983).

Pate R. "Sports anaemia: a review of the current literature." Phys. Sports Med. 11: 115 (1983).

Puhl JL, et al. "Erythrocyte changes during training in high school women cross country runners." Res. Q. Exer. Sport. 52:484 (1981)

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do u have anything published around say, 2000 or later?

[gryphon]

do u have anything published around say, 2000 or later?

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Rossi, A. L., Blostein-Fujii, A., & DiSilvestro, R. A. (2000) Journal of Nutraceuticals, Functional & Medical Foods 3: 33-44.

 

Soy beverage consumption by young men: increased plasma total antioxidant status and decreased acute, exercise-induced muscle damage.

 

PURPOSE OF STUDY:

To study the effects of soy protein versus whey protein on exercise-induced acute muscular damage and oxidative stress in young male adults.

 

PRODUCTS USED:

SUPRO®SOY protein beverage powder (40 grams of protein/day) vs. whey protein beverage powder (40 grams of protein/day).

 

SUBJECTS:

20 moderately active young male adults, 18-28 years old. 10 subjects on the SUPRO®SOY protein beverage; 10 on the Whey protein beverage.

 

MAJOR FINDINGS:

40 grams of SUPRO®SOY protein compared with Whey can:

 

Raise plasma total antioxidant status value (10 per 10).

Inhibit exercised-induced muscle injury.

Creatine kinase value reduced *

Myloperoxidase value reduced *

*(High values are indicative of muscle damage)

 

SIGNIFICANCE:

 

SUPRO®SOY has sports performance and recovery benefits around oxidative stress which is associated with muscle inflammation.

SUPRO®SOY has superior effects over Whey.

SUPRO®SOY consumption, before exercise, impacted indices of antioxidant status.

 

IMPLICATIONS:

SUPRO®SOY use in the daily diet may help to:

 

Reduce muscle fatigue.

Reduce muscle injury.

Improve muscle recovery.

Reduce muscle inflammation

 

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Stroescu, V., Dragan, I., Simionescu, L., Stroescu, O. V. (2001) J Sports Med Phys Fitness 41: 89-94.

 

Hormonal and metabolic response in elite female gymnasts undergoing strenuous training and supplementation with SUPRO® brand isolated soy protein.

PURPOSE OF STUDY:

To study the effects of a soy protein supplementation protocol on the body composition and effects of thyroid and sexual hypofunction of elite female gymnasts.

 

PRODUCTS USED:

SUPRO® soy protein (1.0 g/kg body weight) vs. carbohydrate placebo.

 

SUBJECTS:

20 elite female ammenorrheic gymnasts ages 14 + 2 years

 

 

MAJOR FINDINGS:

Soy supplementation in conjunction with strenuous training induced:

 

Increase in serum human growth hormone

Normal liver and kidney function

Protective actions against thyroid and sexual hypofunction

Protective effect against stress of training measured by elevated serum cortisol; serum cortisol reduced with soy protein supplementation.

SIGNIFICANCE:

FIRST study to demonstrate that:

 

SUPRO® has protective effects in area of thyroid and sexual hypofunction

SUPRO® has protective effects around serum cortisol levels in strenuous exercise

SUPRO® is well tolerated in female teen gymnasts with ammenorrhea

IMPLICATIONS:

SUPRO® supplemenation with elite female gymnasts showed the benefits of:

 

Increased lean body mass and decrease in fat mass.

Increase in serum human growth hormone.

Protective effects around serum cortisol levels which comes from strenuous training.

Protective effects in area of thyroid and sexual hypofunction in female ammenorrheic elite athletes.

 

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Soy Products Support Physical Demands of Athletes

By Peter L. Bordi, Ph.D. and Constance Cole, B.S.

American Dietetic Association. Journal of the American Dietetic Association. Originally Published:20040701.

 

These days, the use of dietary supplements to ensure adequate nutrition is common in more than just athletes. A trip to any grocery or convenience store yields a variety of soy power bars and energy drinks marketed as low carb, high carb, low fat or high protein. Carbohydrate supplementation is accepted as preventative of dehydration, and the consumption of an adequate amount of carbohydrate and protein during times of physical activity is essential to maintain weight, replenish glycogen and aid in the repair of tissue.1

 

Soy protein products have additional health benefits beyond the carbohydrate and protein contributions they make to the diet. For example, soy has an antioxidant effect attributed to the bioactive components and the protein working together. The effect is seen as preventive for a variety of disease states linked to the action of free radicals. Strenuous exercise is linked to oxidative stress2, therefore a natural progression for study is that the antioxidant effect of soy can be useful in recovery processes from exercise-induced stress.3

 

A sports carbohydrate-protein drink with 1 g of protein per fluid oz. of beverage was formulated for an intervention with participants performing extreme exercise. The drink was evaluated for taste differences between Isolated Soy Protein (ISP) and Isolated Whey Protein (IWP).4 The two beverages had the same macronutrients. The protein used in both soy and whey products had a Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) of 1.0. Production methods and packaging were identical with the exception of color-coding the packaging for respective subject groups. The results of the taste preference test showed that 18 of the 28 participants preferred the soy drink, although the difference in preference between the ISP and IWP was not statistically significant. There was no negative disadvantage associated with the taste of soy.

 

These soy and whey drinks also were used in a seven-week intervention, single blind, randomized, crossover design study comparing the effects of soy and whey carbohydrate-protein beverages on exercise-induced muscle damage by measuring indicators of oxidative stress.5 The 28 healthy male subjects were recruited from a NCAA Division I football team. Subjects consumed the soy and whey drinks, each of which provided 40 g of protein, after intense exercise, including weight-training sessions and aerobic running sessions. Creatine phosphokinase, also known as creatine kinase (CK), lactic dehydrogenase (LDH), and myeloperoxidase (MPO) were used as biomarkers for measurement of tissue damage in plasma. The results indicated that the soy group experienced less of an increase in all biomarkers of stress.

 

MPO levels of the subjects who had consumed soy in the first phase of intervention remained lower at the start of the second phase of intervention. There had been a 10-day wash-out period between the phases. All indication is that the effects of the soy intervention are seen for more than 10 days after intervention had ceased. The increase in biomarkers induced by exercise and looked at immediately after exercise was statistically insignificant. This may be indicative that soy plays a stronger role in the recovery from stress as opposed to the prevention of stress brought on by extreme exercise.

 

Indications are that when looking for a supplemental product, soy may be a good choice for those individuals at risk for stress-related tissue loss, either from exercise or injury. Defining what type of product to use as a supplement will depend on what physical demands are to be met. Dietitians should ensure the product of choice will be a benefit to the patient and will have no food or drug interactions.

[van_wilder]

we have different views... its very hard to change ourselves so what more changing others?

 

anyway, its your body... its your call... its your risk to take... kanya kanya lang tayo... kahit anong sabihin ng ibang tao, ang mahalaga kung ano yun gusto mo, para in the end walang 'what ifs?' ka na itatanong bago mamatay...

[spitzky]

hav u read anything on the estrogenic effects of soy due to its xenoestrogens? :sick:

[gryphon]

hav u read anything on the estrogenic effects of soy due to its xenoestrogens?  :sick:

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Xeno literally means foreign. So xenoestrogens means foreign estrogens.

 

We live in a world of petrochemicals, and come in contact with hundreds if not thousands of these products in our everyday lives. Our homes are heated with petroleum oil, and our cars run on petroleum fuel. Plastics, medicines, and food containers all contain petroleum byproducts. The problem is that some of these petrochemicals, called "xenobiotics," can mimic and or interfere with our female steroid hormones, altering the way we grow and producing an epidemic of reproductive abnormalities, including increasing numbers of cancers of the reproductive organs, infertility, and low sperm counts. There are about 100,000 registered chemicals in the world that have hormonal effects in the body, as well as carcinogenic and toxic effects. The bad news? Many of the harmful hormone-like substances that we absorb from the environment are hard to avoid.

 

Xenoestrogens, in addition to being highly estrogenic, are fat-soluble and non-biodegradable. That means they are here to stay; you can't get them out of your body (or off the planet Earth). Fact is, the major source of xenoestrogens is red meat and dairy products. Xenoestrogens accumulate in our fatty tissues (breast, brain, and liver) and cause "estrogen dominance", with all its symptoms and diseases. Billions of pounds of these substances are applied to our fruits and vegetables every year in the form of chemical fertilizers and sprays. Because xenoestrogens do not go away, when you eat the fruit or vegetable you generally get a small amount of these substances.

 

End result - we are all going to die. :upside:

[spitzky]

yup, but soy protein seems to hav tons of the stuff.....

 

xenoestrogens will make u gay! hahaha

 

i developed a taste for soy milk wen i was around 6-10 y o, and even tho i was the biggest guy in class, i was also the softest! good thing my fave brand went out of production before the damned thing completely turned me into a faggot....

...true story :cry:

[Batabatuta™]

yup, but soy protein seems to hav tons of the stuff.....

 

xenoestrogens will make u gay! hahaha

 

i developed a taste for soy milk wen i was around 6-10 y o, and even tho i was the biggest guy in class, i was also the softest! good thing my fave brand went out of production before the damned thing completely turned me into a faggot....

...true story  :cry:

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I read an email a couple years back about someone getting cancer from too much soy intake? Is this just an isolated case or is there an explanation for this?

[spitzky]

I read an email a couple years back about someone getting cancer from too much soy intake?  Is this just an isolated case or is there an explanation for this?

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read my previous posts... look for "bad protein" :sick:

[gryphon]

I read an email a couple years back about someone getting cancer from too much soy intake?  Is this just an isolated case or is there an explanation for this?

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If you are asking if taking soy will give you cancer much like cigarette smoking will give you emphysema. Then I will have to say no. There has not been a proven connection that soy has a direct relationship to cause cancer. Actually the studies have proven the opposite. Soy has helped reduce the chances of cancer and bone loss.

 

They said soy has the potential to give you cancer. The studies didn’t show soy itself, but on xenoestrogens. Unfortunately, xenoestrogens can be found in pesticides that spray the crops and in hormones that are used to fatten cows. So if you are eating fruits, vegetables, red meat, dairy products (yes, that includes whey protein) then you are exposed to xenoestrogens. They say soy has shown to lower semen count in rats and cheetahs. But when they ran a study in humans they found no lowering of semen.

 

The studies others have posted here only give you a partial view of the subject or should I say a sensational view. But when you look beyond the headlines and read how they come to their conclusions then you’ll start to ask more questions. I’ve posted a wider angle to the subject. Read the studies and decide for yourself.

 

One person on this board actually claims that drinking soy turned him into a “faggot” (his words, not mine). I can’t answer that one. Maybe he was just sexually confused.

[spitzky]

If you are asking if taking soy will give you cancer much like cigarette smoking will give you emphysema.  Then I will have to say no.  There has not been a proven connection that soy has a direct relationship to cause cancer.  Actually the studies have proven the opposite.  Soy has helped reduce the chances of cancer and bone loss. 

 

They said soy has the potential to give you cancer.  The studies didn’t show soy itself, but on xenoestrogens.  Unfortunately, xenoestrogens can be found in pesticides that spray the crops and in hormones that are used to fatten cows.  So if you are eating fruits, vegetables, red meat, dairy products (yes, that includes whey protein) then you are exposed to xenoestrogens.  They say soy has shown to lower semen count in rats and cheetahs.  But when they ran a study in humans they found no lowering of semen.

 

The studies others have posted here only give you a partial view of the subject or should I say a sensational view.  But when you look beyond the headlines and read how they come to their conclusions then you’ll start to ask more questions.  I’ve posted a wider angle to the subject.  Read the studies and decide for yourself. 

 

One person on this board actually claims that drinking soy turned him into a “faggot” (his words, not mine).    I can’t answer that one.  Maybe he was just sexually confused.   

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i was only half kidding... not really a fag, but i was a big, soft gradeschool boy... i recovered in high school, just after i quit soy milk...

 

yup, almost everything these days can be considered "carcinogenic"... life sucks

[Marvel®]

dati whey protein ang iniinom ko pero parang walang effect sa akin kaya i stop. ngayon wala na. konting diet na alng kaso hirap akong pigilan ang sarili ko sa pgakain eh kaya di tuloy ako pumapayat.

[van_wilder]

well totoong mey Estrogen ang soy. nabasa ka na din un. tulad nga ng sabi ko dati, naging manipis ang skin ko at pumuti ang skin ko. hehehehe

 

I tot dati wla lng na madaling magsugat ang skin ksi ang nipis tapos nabasa ko ung article about soy/taho npangiti ako at sabi ko nga oo nga noh. hehehehe

 

Pero contrary sa sabi nyo na nakakabading ung soy. LalaKE pa rin ako :) :) at mas ma L pa compare dati

 

Try nyo mag take ng soy ocasionaly. mga two months drink kyo, tapos tigil nyo. tapos inom kyo ulit. sabi nga nila too much of ANYTHING is bad

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kaya parang numipis ang balat mo dahil kumakapal ang muscle... kapag kumakapal ang muscle hindi naman numinipis ang balat, nawawala yun fat. ibig sabihin maganda yun soy protein.

 

walang kinalaman ang pagputi at pagnipis ng balat sa estrogen. so ang mga babaeng negro walang estrogen? kasi maiitim sila at makapal ang balat? kung totoo yun so dapat nagka man-tits ang nagtatake ng soy...

[spitzky]

kaya parang numipis ang balat mo dahil kumakapal ang muscle... kapag kumakapal ang muscle hindi naman numinipis ang balat, nawawala yun fat. ibig sabihin maganda yun soy protein.

 

walang kinalaman ang pagputi at pagnipis ng balat sa estrogen. so ang mga babaeng negro walang estrogen? kasi maiitim sila at makapal ang balat? kung totoo yun so dapat nagka man-tits ang nagtatake ng soy...

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how long hav u been taking soy?

[van_wilder]

since i was a kid...

 

but i dont drink it everyday... ano ako g@go? kung everyday eh di tumaas uric acid ko...

 

pagnipis ng balat and pagputi does not have any correlation with estrogen...