South China/West Philippine Sea

[BnF95]

hindi mangyayare yun... china has force pero di sila stupid to take something by force... hanggang naval exercise lang sila... small skirmishes

pero di totoong gera... mawawalan ng market ang gamit nila if they become the bad guy and tried to attack smaller/weaker/poorer countries

Yes, because China was so worried about looking like the bad guy if they attack a smaller/weaker/poorer country. Oh wait, didn't they do that to Tibet?

 

what do you think we should do if china doesnt want to be diplomatic with us?

We can cry for help.

 

1. Keep whatever dignity we have by keeping quiet about our weakness.

2. Persist in solving the conflict through diplomatic means and strengthening our alliances with ASEAN and US.

3. Quietly and persistently develop our capability to defend ourselves.

1. Does that mean if China attacks we should tell anyone that wants to help us to just puck-off?

2. Ah, sorry, we should strengthen our alliances but keep thumping our chests about how strong we are?

3. I agree with this one. We should have been doing this for decades, unfortunately TitaCory, Tobacco, Mustaches, and Gremlin, who have held power for the last 25 years, have either looted this nation or let their friends and associates do it for them.

[jopoc]

Haha! Good point.

 

 

Tell good ole Uncle Sam. As of now, we don't need to coz Uncle Sam already knows. What do you think we should do?

 

 

prepare to fight.

 

 

why, do you expect uncle sam to do all the fightin for us? (assuming he helps us) but what if uncles sam doesnt want to help us? or gives us very limited help?

[Guest inverbrass]

prepare to fight.

 

 

why, do you expect uncle sam to do all the fightin for us? (assuming he helps us) but what if uncles sam doesnt want to help us? or gives us very limited help?

Prepare to fight. What do we fight with? I don't wanna repeat myself since I posted the reasons on the closed thread on why it's useless to fight with China. Read what I posted on the closed thread.

 

To answer your question, because Uncle Sam is the ally of Juan Dela Cruz. Both countries signed a mutual defense treaty. Read Article IV and V of that treaty. Uncle Sam is bound by that treaty unless of course it reneges on that treaty which would not be good with public perception coz if the US reneges on that treaty, it would only mean the US can't be trusted and that it is scared of China. I'm pretty sure good ole Uncle Sam wouldn't want that to happen.

 

 

[zenislev]

fight with a few S-211s, a few OV-10s, an obsolete navy, a under equipped army, and corrupt generals of the armed forces.

[jopoc]

Prepare to fight. What do we fight with? I don't wanna repeat myself since I posted the reasons on the closed thread on why it's useless to fight with China. Read what I posted on the closed thread.

 

To answer your question, because Uncle Sam is the ally of Juan Dela Cruz. Both countries signed a mutual defense treaty. Read Article IV and V of that treaty. Uncle Sam is bound by that treaty unless of course it reneges on that treaty which would not be good with public perception coz if the US reneges on that treaty, it would only mean the US can't be trusted and that it is scared of China. I'm pretty sure good ole Uncle Sam wouldn't want that to happen.

 

 

are you saying that if the US abides by the treaty, we leave all the fighting to uncle sam? all we do is watch? is that what the treaty says?

 

 

 

also, the Articles IV and V of treaty says:

 

Article IV. Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific Area on either of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common dangers in accordance with its constitutional processes. Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall be immediately reported to the Security Council of the United Nations. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

 

Article V. For the purpose of Article IV, an armed attack on either of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack on the metropolitan territory of either of the Parties, or on the island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific or on its armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific.

 

 

my question is, automatic ba ang US support pag nilusob tayo ng tsina dadaan pa yan sa UN, and before the US go into war, dapat may approval ba ng congress.

 

so what do we do for the meantime?

Edited July 14, 2011 by jopoc

[lomex32]

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Edited July 14, 2011 by lomex32

[Guest inverbrass]

are you saying that if the US abides by the treaty, we leave all the fighting to uncle sam? all we do is watch? is that what the treaty says?

 

my question is, automatic ba ang US support pag nilusob tayo ng tsina dadaan pa yan sa UN, and before the US go into war, dapat may approval ba ng congress.

 

so what do we do for the meantime?

Did I even imply that we will leave the fighting to Uncle Sam. It's called a mutual defense treaty with emphasis on mutual.

 

Yes, there has to be congressional approval before the US goes to war. Do you think US Congress is foolish enough to renege on a treaty? If it does, the US will be viewed as an untrustworthy nation and at the same time would make the it seem weak and scared of China. Now, the US Congress wouldn't want that kind of public perception. Would they?

Edited July 14, 2011 by inverbrass

[jopoc]

Did I even imply that we will leave the fighting to Uncle Sam. It's called a mutual defense treaty with emphasis on mutual.

 

a. if your saying that it is mutual, then you are saying that we will be fighting too, right?

 

 

Yes, there has to be congressional approval before the US goes to war. Do you think US Congress is foolish enough to renege on a treaty? If it does, the US will be viewed as an untrustworthy nation and at the same time would make the it seem weak and scared of China. Now, the US Congress wouldn't want that kind of public perception. Would they?

 

 

 

b.you did not answer my question, what you we do for the meantime we are being under attacked and there is still no approval from congress?

[Guest inverbrass]

a. if your saying that it is mutual, then you are saying that we will be fighting too, right?

 

b.you did not answer my question, what you we do for the meantime we are being under attacked and there is still no approval from congress?

a. Yes

 

b. Wait for US Congress. I don't share your suggestion that we should be prepared to fight. Again, we just don't have what it takes to wage war against China.

 

 

[camiar]

 

1. Keep whatever dignity we have by keeping quiet about our weakness.

2. Persist in solving the conflict through diplomatic means and strengthening our alliances with ASEAN and US.

3. Quietly and persistently develop our capability to defend ourselves.

 

1. Does that mean if China attacks we should tell anyone that wants to help us to just puck-off?

2. Ah, sorry, we should strengthen our alliances but keep thumping our chests about how strong we are?

3. I agree with this one. We should have been doing this for decades, unfortunately TitaCory, Tobacco, Mustaches, and Gremlin, who have held power for the last 25 years, have either looted this nation or let their friends and associates do it for them.

 

The set of 3 recommendations I posted should be done all at the same time. Individually, you took them in the wrong context.

1. We should keep quiet and preserve our dignity. If you are weak, crowing to the world how weak you are won't help you. I cannot take Inverbrass' noisy statements on how incompetent we would be in defending ourselves in case China is stupid enough to attack us at our present weak state. Pero di pa naguumpisa ang laban sigurado na syang talo sya. Kung kasama ng mga sundalo yang ganyang klase ng tao sa gyera, baka sya pa unang putukan.

 

2. Diplomacy is the best policy in the current situation. Calm words and smart maneuverings can still stop the agressor. Are we thumping our chest on how strong we are? When did that happen? Who are we kidding? But just merely stating that we will not back down from a fight does not show how strong you are, but it shows how committed we are. Hindi lakas, kundi tibay ng loob. Tumahimik ka lang pero wag mong ipakitang takot ka. Kung minsan dun pa lang sa pakita ng tibay ng loob natin, lulubayan ka na ng kaaway mo.

 

3. If you didn't know yet, the current capacity upgrade in the Navy was done during the past administration. Ngayon nga lang dumating.Puro na lang tayo sisi sa mga nakaraang administrasyon. But this current administration has hardly done anything to upgrade our defense capabilities, yet nobody is complaining. Tayo mismo ang problema.

Edited July 15, 2011 by camiar

[Guest inverbrass]

 

We should keep quiet and preserve our dignity. If you are weak, crowing to the world how weak you are won't help you. I cannot take Inverbrass' noisy statements on how incompetent we would be in defending ourselves in case China is stupid enough to attack us at our present weak state. Pero di pa naguumpisa ang laban sigurado na syang talo sya. Kung kasama ng mga sundalo yang ganyang klase ng tao sa gyera, baka sya pa unang putukan.

Hahaha! I was basing my statements on our military assets and China's military assets. I'm being realistic unlike you who thinks that bravery is enough. If a potential war with China breaks out, do you actually think our soldiers would reach the Spratlys with Chinese hunter-killers roving around the Spratlys? If our boys will go by air, Chinese fighter jets will blow them out of the sky. Get real.

[camiar]

Hahaha! I was basing my statements on our military assets and China's military assets. I'm being realistic unlike you who thinks that bravery is enough. If a potential war with China breaks out, do you actually think our soldiers would reach the Spratlys with Chinese hunter-killers roving around the Spratlys? If our boys will go by air, Chinese fighter jets will blow them out of the sky. Get real.

My fervent hope is that you're not in the military or if you are, none of your comrades know about what you're writing in this thread.

 

We all know about China's military strength. We know we can't match them one-on-one. We acknowledge that we should improve our capability. Whoever said bravery is enough? Nevertheless, there are those of us who still won't back down in face of China's bullying. Whining about it the way you do never helps. Anyway, when push comes to a shove, it's unlikely we can ever get any commitment from you. You may even use that as an excuse to ally with them.

 

Your statements remind me of the makapili's during the Japanese period. They have the same "realist" mindset as yours.

Edited July 15, 2011 by camiar

[Guest inverbrass]

My fervent hope is that you're not in the military and none of your comrades know about what you're writing in this thread.

 

We all know about China's military strength. We know we can't match them one-on-one. But there are those of us who still won't back down in face of China's bullying. When push comes to a shove, it's unlikely we can ever get any commitment from you. You may even use that as an excuse to ally with them.

 

Your statements remind me of the makapili's during the Japanese period. They have the same "realist" mindset as yours.

Is this your post in which I'm supposed to say ouch? Haha! Our soldiers won't even get to fire a shot coz Chinese subs are gonna sink the transport ships they'll be in. Same with our transport planes. Go ahead and live in your dreamworld where bravado is the only thing that matters. It's easy to talk tough behind a laptop/desktop. There's a big difference between your dreamworld and the real world.

 

 

[jopoc]

a. Yes

 

so what do we have to fight, since you say we have nothing to use against the chinese?

 

 

 

b. Wait for US Congress. I don't share your suggestion that we should be prepared to fight. Again, we just don't have what it takes to wage war against China.

 

 

so, are you saying that we allow the chinese to takeover the spratlys and we do nothing for the meantime?

[camiar]

During the Korean War, a platoon of Filipinos attacked a Chinese regiment holding a strategic hill position. Our soldiers divided themselves into four squads, and made probing attacks on the Chinese defense lines. attacking, withdrawing and moving over to the next segment of the Chinese defense lines. They did this over and over every night for several days. As reports of the "waves" of attack reach the command post, the Chinese thought they were being attacked by a huge army. They withdraw soon afterwards and the Filipinos took over the hill.

 

Platoon vs. Regiment. That was bravado. And smart fighting. That piece of history would never have happened if inverbrass was there.

Edited July 15, 2011 by camiar