Team Pilipinas Basketball

[Guest megalodon]

and yeah... they are playing under the rules of the pba...

maybe we can cut them some slack and instead just pray they are able to get ready for the real goal ahead...

They are playing under the rules of the PBA but they were really trained for FIBA rules so they're the ones adjusting. There was a time when teams of the Chinese Basketball League came here for exhibition games against PBA teams. The Presto team of Caidic routed the Liaoning Lions of the CBL with a couple of national players on that team. The games were played under PBA rules so the Chinese teams had a difficult time adjusting. In my opinion, if the recent FIBA was played under the PBA rules, Powerade would have been a lock in the Top 3.

Edited October 24, 2009 by megalodon

[hopia_mani_papkorn]

I still believe in the team .. and I still believe that Coach Toroman is the right guy for the job ...

 

Basketball is not all about talent .. its about commitment and teamwork .. remember MJ was already considered the greatest basketball player ... but he still needs a championship to cement his name in the annals of the game .. He doesn't have a high scoring forward ... and they don't have a big burly center who could score inside ... During the championship run ... they have a team that has great chemistry ..

 

Still Smart Gilas is a team at work ... Lets not judge them this early .. Give the team some time to mature ... remember .. It also took Toroman like more that 3 years to develop the new powerhouse of Asian basketball ...

 

IRAN ...

[amante]

They are playing under the rules of the PBA but they were really trained for FIBA rules so they're the ones adjusting. There was a time when teams of the Chinese Basketball League came here for exhibition games against PBA teams. The Presto team of Caidic routed the Liaoning Lions of the CBL with a couple of national players on that team. The games were played under PBA rules so the Chinese teams had a difficult time adjusting. In my opinion, if the recent FIBA was played under the PBA rules, Powerade would have been a lock in the Top 3.

agree ako jan. pagtawag lang ng fouls ibang-iba na

 

anyways, i still feel Smart Gilas should get 1 more center

or taga-kuha ng fouls

at least pang-pahinga nila kay Giles

i dont think japeth or rabeh have the ceiling for the the asian scene

 

would be an interesting starting lineup though

 

C - CJ Giles

PF - rabeh al-hussaini

SF - Japeth Aguilar

G - Cris Lutz

PG - Chris Tiu

[catsumhoto]

lest we forget the hilipine team that we have sent to tianjin fail miserably.... and they do lose big to their respective opponent.... should the game with the pba team be a gauge? definitely para malaman natin yong progress natin o hindi... if we gonna use that as a gauge might as well start learning now and start changing the personnel now.... we keep on emphasizing n its a young team its on it developement stages... well d lang naman tayo ang nagpreprepare para sa asian hampionship... if we really gonna beat those team e should instead hire five to six fil-foreigners that are big and quick... this team really wont cut it... remember kahit magimprove ymga yan they still have to contend n other teams will also improve come three years time....

[kempaf]

in years to come these guys will become mature on their game and who knows, they can be a contender.

[stonecoldrock]

buti nalang hindi pa na injure yung sinahod ni arboleda

[Agent_mulder]

Giles is distracted dahil daw may life-threatening illness ang anak n'ya, he only played for 5 minutes against tnt which raised a lot of eyebrows at 'di s'ya naglaro against Ginebra. Questionable 'yung 5 mins. lang s'ya naglaro against tnt as we all knew is owned by mvp while SG is funded by the same person, 'yung kasing panalo syempre ng tnt against SG would reflect in their win-loss records and might be vital to their chances in this conference..

[Guest megalodon]

Giles is distracted dahil daw may life-threatening illness ang anak n'ya, he only played for 5 minutes against tnt which raised a lot of eyebrows at 'di s'ya naglaro against Ginebra. Questionable 'yung 5 mins. lang s'ya naglaro against tnt as we all knew is owned by mvp while SG is funded by the same person, 'yung kasing panalo syempre ng tnt against SG would reflect in their win-loss records and might be vital to their chances in this conference..

Shades of NCC and Magnolia in the mid-80's. Parati nagpapatalo NCC sa Magnolia since guest team lang naman sila. Both were sister teams funded by Big Boss Danding.

Edited October 26, 2009 by megalodon

[catsumhoto]

a lot of pipol kept comparing this team with ncc team... however we tend to forget that the competition is far different from what the ncc have during its heydays.... remember during that time wala p asian player n naglalaro s nba... the equation has change n talaga.... china has three.... iran and korea each has one.... lebanon has an nba import... well tayo just like before e wala p din hangang ngayon...

[dencio]

^^ And what's wrong with comparing the Smart-Gilas program with the NCC program? Both had the same objective - to elevate Philippine basketball back to the top (or near the top) in the region. Even then, nanga-ngamote na ang 'Pinas sa Asia. Am sure many of the posters here are basketball-savvy enough to know that the competition has changed. Kaya nga binuo ito eh, because the competition keeps getting stronger while our national teams are stuck in neutral. We need to keep up!

 

Sabi mo palitan na ang personnel. Sino naman ang nakikita mo na dapat kasama sa team? You are suggesting 5-6 foreigners to beef up the team. Is this aside from Giles? Alam mo ba na may limitation din ang naturalized players sa international tournaments? Hindi rin makakalaro ang mga yun! So ibig sabihin din ba na okay sa 'yo na kalahati ng team eh banyaga basta mag-champion lang?

 

The goal is still 2 to 3 years down the road. Don't expect any miracles or quick-fixes. In the meantime, be patient and optimistic.

[catsumhoto]

smart gilas is like NU in the UAAP. they have finally got a big financier to back up basketball program. however like NU is the personnel involve in the team enough to get us back on top of ASIA? THE PROGRAM IS NOBLE. THEIR AIM is unquestionable. I guess everybody in this thread really wish them luck. However, lets be realistic about our situation. The games played against the PBA team without giles is an eye opener that we really don't have the bigs to match up against other asian team that have a complete package. remember that they played four games in japan and got beaten handily by their national team.. So the team have a lot of catching up to do.

[catsumhoto]

the pba now is having second thought about the participation of smart gilas now that giles is a doubtful starter with the team.. they are now considering not counting the wins (if ever) of smart gilas. they have come to the realization that the smart gilas team is not as competitive as they thought without giles. giles is definately a double double player, and that translate into more than twenty points, the same number they have to make up for the twin loss they suffer. i say let them play so that we will be able to know the true stte of philippine basketball.

[amante]

the pba now is having second thought about the participation of smart gilas now that giles is a doubtful starter with the team.. they are now considering not counting the wins (if ever) of smart gilas. they have come to the realization that the smart gilas team is not as competitive as they thought without giles. giles is definately a double double player, and that translate into more than twenty points, the same number they have to make up for the twin loss they suffer. i say let them play so that we will be able to know the true stte of philippine basketball.

parang nabasa ko din nga yan eh

lito alvarez is leading the charge saying that is was a costly win for his team playing Gilas, having lost their team captain for one year.

 

parang ganito ang rationale/series of events

 

Giles cant play, uncertain when he'd be back

Without Giles, PBA teams believe Gilas as a pushover, which probably rightly so

They say that its unfair for their teams to play Gilas when they are weak versus when Giles gets back and they become stronger

 

solution: Ban Giles from playing

and/or

not count the games won (if ever there is going to be any)

 

talk about politics in sports

you have a classic one right there

aside from Guiao, meron bang may balak sa kanilang tumakbo next year?!?

[catsumhoto]

i sy let them play... with or without giles... ano man resulta they should learn to play with such an disadvantage.... what if giles got injured during the asian tournament.... they should learn to adjust now and make plays without their bigman....

[maxx_pee]

Smart Gilas should be more than a 3 year program. 3 years is not enough. The 2012 Olympics will only allow ONE slot for Asia. The odds are greatly stacked against the RP.

 

The SBP should make Smart Gilas a 6 year program, culminating in the 2014 World Championships and the 2016 Brazil Olympics. By that time, the young Smart Gilas players will already be in their prime.

 

Again, a 3 year program is not enough time. What will happen when the 3 years is over? Will the SBP start from scratch, and create a brand new roster?

 

The SBP needs to construct a PERMANENT program, just like other countries. The question is, is Manny Pangilinan willing to fund this thing permanently.

[Guest megalodon]

Looks like Smart-Gilas is going on an European educational tour and will go up against European teams.

 

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?artic...ubCategoryId=69

[catsumhoto]

Smart Gilas should be more than a 3 year program. 3 years is not enough. The 2012 Olympics will only allow ONE slot for Asia. The odds are greatly stacked against the RP.

 

The SBP should make Smart Gilas a 6 year program, culminating in the 2014 World Championships and the 2016 Brazil Olympics. By that time, the young Smart Gilas players will already be in their prime.

 

Again, a 3 year program is not enough time. What will happen when the 3 years is over? Will the SBP start from scratch, and create a brand new roster?

 

The SBP needs to construct a PERMANENT program, just like other countries. The question is, is Manny Pangilinan willing to fund this thing permanently.

 

I AGREE!!! before we embark on a quest let us step back and look at the opposition... what are our chances against our asian neighbor....one slot allocated for london olympics.... the last time i check china is rank no. 09 in the world as for us we are no. 54 lot of catching up to do....do this team has the material to match up man for man against china? or even the arab players? if not might as well drop this team now and start planning for 2016 or even beyond 2016... we should have players with large built and if you look at the present horizon even our youth team cannot match up pound for pound against the bigger player of asia.... even japeth, which lot of analyst is staking their reputation is deem as the future of philippine basketball, well sad to say if he really is the future then our future is as bleak as typhoon ondoy.....

[Guest megalodon]

Let's just give these boys a chance. You can get pessimistic all you want but this will be our team for the next 3 years.

[catsumhoto]

wetend to compare this team with the NCC team of DANDING... well the NCC team of DANDING has three AMERICANS playing as FIL-sham, we tend to forget that its the 3 AMERCIAN import that has basically do the damage for us... DENNIS STILL, JEFF MOORE, CHIp ENGELAND RACTICALLY COMPRISE 3/4 PRODUCTIN OF THE TEAM.... sure caidic and samboy were able to shine... but bck then our main opposition where china, korea, japan. they are still learning the ropes of basketball and has practically leap frog over us.... then the new threat coming from the middle eastern countries... while they were able to develope a program for their national team.. our sports leaders went out of their way trying to recruit fil foreigner to beef up our team.... i think we can't even land on the top ten asian team if we sent a team compose of Philippine born player... same case also with swimming our sports official try to recruit fil foreigner to beef up the team thereby neglecting grassroot developement.... there was an article about a UST junior swimmer who has broken every existing UAAP junior record and has stop competing because of lack of competition from other UAAP school, the national swimming association never extend any help to this kid in terms of developing or sending him abroad to further enhance his talent.... thats the real state of Philipine sports..... quite pitifull

[Guest megalodon]

wetend to compare this team with the NCC team of DANDING... well the NCC team of DANDING has three AMERICANS playing as FIL-sham, we tend to forget that its the 3 AMERCIAN import that has basically do the damage for us... DENNIS STILL, JEFF MOORE, CHIp ENGELAND RACTICALLY COMPRISE 3/4 PRODUCTIN OF THE TEAM.... sure caidic and samboy were able to shine... but bck then our main opposition where china, korea, japan. they are still learning the ropes of basketball and has practically leap frog over us.... then the new threat coming from the middle eastern countries... while they were able to develope a program for their national team.. our sports leaders went out of their way trying to recruit fil foreigner to beef up our team.... i think we can't even land on the top ten asian team if we sent a team compose of Philippine born player... same case also with swimming our sports official try to recruit fil foreigner to beef up the team thereby neglecting grassroot developement.... there was an article about a UST junior swimmer who has broken every existing UAAP junior record and has stop competing because of lack of competition from other UAAP school, the national swimming association never extend any help to this kid in terms of developing or sending him abroad to further enhance his talent.... thats the real state of Philipine sports..... quite pitifull

Let me rectify what you said. First of all, when NCC won the ABC (the former name of FIBA-Asia), they had only Moore and Still. Engelland wasn't around. Second, the Chinese and Koreans were already basketball powers in Asia that time together with the Philippines. Is it wrong to maximize the rule of having naturalized players? To name a few cases in point: Hakeem Olajuwon in 1996 for Team USA in the Olympics, JR Holden, an American, who played for the Russian Team in the 2007 FIBA-Europe, Jackson Vroman, an American, who played for Lebanon in the FIBA-Asia recently. You're an idealist and you're obviously blinded by this idealism of yours that only pure Pinoys should play for flag and country. The reality is basketball is evolving and this includes tapping the services of foreign players and we need to do what we have to do to improve our level of basketball even if it means getting a naturalized player which is in the FIBA rulebook.

[CELTS]

As I recall, the 3 Americans were really recruited to bring the RP back to its basketball glory days. Unfortunately, Chip has some issues with regards to his eligibility thus was not able to play for the country in the ABC championship. But he did play in the Jones Cup, a tournament they joined to prepare the team for the ABC to which the RP won the title over USA.

 

Sad to say, a lot of countries have seen the loop hole of having naturalized players in their team. This could be the reason why the basketball governing body has decided to allow only 1 naturalized player. Come to think of it, it would be an irony having Team Philippines as the champion but the players that were responsible for the victory were Americans or of other nationalities. Depending on one's principle, would you be happy on such victory?

 

In the case of Fil Am players, for me I see them also as Americans masquerading as Filipinos. Its a source of livelihood for these guys and deep inside them they still considered themselves as Americans than pinoy. Just look at those FilAms playing in the PBA, how many have stayed long after their career is over? Where are they now?

 

I agree with catsumhoto. This practice is also seem in other sports just like swimming & tennis to name a few. I recall in particular one swimmer who failed to qualify for the US team for the Olympics and here she is swimming for the Philippines just to achieve her dream. If these FilAms really have the country in their hearts, they should have volunteered to play for the country above anything else.

[Guest megalodon]

As I recall, the 3 Americans were really recruited to bring the RP back to its basketball glory days. Unfortunately, Chip has some issues with regards to his eligibility thus was not able to play for the country in the ABC championship. But he did play in the Jones Cup, a tournament they joined to prepare the team for the ABC to which the RP won the title over USA.

 

Sad to say, a lot of countries have seen the loop hole of having naturalized players in their team. This could be the reason why the basketball governing body has decided to allow only 1 naturalized player. Come to think of it, it would be an irony having Team Philippines as the champion but the players that were responsible for the victory were Americans or of other nationalities. Depending on one's principle, would you be happy on such victory?

 

In the case of Fil Am players, for me I see them also as Americans masquerading as Filipinos. Its a source of livelihood for these guys and deep inside them they still considered themselves as Americans than pinoy. Just look at those FilAms playing in the PBA, how many have stayed long after their career is over? Where are they now?

 

I agree with catsumhoto. This practice is also seem in other sports just like swimming & tennis to name a few. I recall in particular one swimmer who failed to qualify for the US team for the Olympics and here she is swimming for the Philippines just to achieve her dream. If these FilAms really have the country in their hearts, they should have volunteered to play for the country above anything else.

The Americans didn't raise a howl when they won the Olympic gold with a Nigerian on their team so did the Russians when they won the FIBA-Europe in 2007 with the help of an American. So if you ask me, yes I'd still be happy. You do what you have to do to get ahead coz waiting for something good to happen and staying passive is an exercise in futility.

[CELTS]

The Americans didn't raise a howl when they won the Olympic gold with a Nigerian on their team so did the Russians when they won the FIBA-Europe in 2007 with the help of an American. So if you ask me, yes I'd still be happy. You do what you have to do to get ahead coz waiting for something good to happen and staying passive is an exercise in futility.

 

The Americans and the Russians did not raise a howl and so didn't we when we took home the ABC title in the 80's.

 

During the NCC days a naturalized player only needs to comply with the residencyto be able to play as a naturalized player. One is allowed to field in as many naturalized player that have complied with the residency status. Such the case, it is not impossible say a RP team composed 12 Americans that were naturalized to be Filipinos. Well, we could be happy because we achieved the goal but will it make one proud that the FILIPINOS are on top of the basketball world? We could also turn the tide and say we are still the best in the region and China comes with Americans parading as Chinese to defeat team RP. How would you feel? I guess there will always be 2 sides of a coin. Some will say the end justify the means. The purist/idealist will frown on this idea.

 

In the current era, I guess there is less to be debated upon as there is now a limit on the use of Naturalized player. As I've said, could this be the reason for the "abuse" in the use of naturalized players to gain victory?

 

On the side, Hakeem was not naturalized with the intent of playing him for DREAM TEAM USA. In fact, I believe USA would have still won without him there. As for the case of JR Hiddens, i came about an article saying that the main resaon why he got naturalized was because his team CSKA Moscow would wanted to circumvent a league ruling regarding the number of allowed foreign players on its roster. Ofcourse, to fast track the processing, he was offer to play for the national team. But again this is after FIBA have set the 1 naturalized player policy already.

[Guest megalodon]

If China naturalized an American/s and beat us (they could beat us without an American), I'll accept it as it is. I mean the Chinese just used their right to naturalize so I won't make it a big deal. Do you think the basketball associations of FIBA member countries would give a damn about what purists feel? I don't think so. What they would care about are the Ws but would so within the rules. I mean there are other countries that cheat to win. For example, some countries would fake a naturalized player's documents just to win. Don't get me wrong coz I'm not espousing cheating to win. My point is RP basketball should do what it has to do to win as long as it follows FIBA rules.

[catsumhoto]

the thing is we have been using fil ams/fil foreigner/fil sham for the past how many fiba asia and even in the PBA.. did we improve our game? did the filipino as a basketball nation mature? yeah use them but as a stop gap measure.... not as a regular program to enhance our standing in asia. And if you look at them they're not as tall as expected. we have players of that size also here... they're not as if they are 7' tall or something.... thats why some filipino are losing interest in the PBA. You develope a sport thru long term program.... and really harnessing the best players.... a perfect example is san sebastian victory over san beda... san beda has an import yet the stag toil very hard to reach their status now.... thats hard work for you not a quick fix by hiring a foreign player to do the job u are suppose to do.... we should learn to respect ourselves first before we expect people to respect us... those fil foreigner are like mercinery after a career in the PBA they are nowhere to be found.. thats why they should give NORMAN BLACK, ALEX COMPTON, honorary award for sticking it out here after their career in PHILIPPINE BASKETBALL.