fatchubs Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 fatchubs, that's the problem i had with the trade? why jensen and not manuel? because of maliksi? manuel can play the 4 position...as for the trade tenorio, maliksi, jensen = alvarez, ballesteros, manuel... it ain't about the talent it's what the team needs... give two years, alvarez will be one of the better pgs in the pba...as for manuel, he shows the potential and the never say die spirit which jensen and ellis doesn't show, maybe because they grew up elsewhere and never witnessed the never say die ginebra attitude...ballesteros... hmmmmm... he's not just big and he is no sam eman or magi sison either...put it this way if ballesteros were in tnt or ros that'd be scary again... let's unload the pgs... and start with siot... hehehee Tenorio is already one of the best PG we have now and he will still be even in 2 years time. Lester is a potential ... he actually may or may not become the player you expect him to be. Looking to win now, then you go for a proven commodity rather than potential. Jensen I believe can also play the 3 or the 4 position as well but has been called to play mostly 3. He Is taller than Manuel who is listed at 6'5" but is actually 2-3 inches shorter except for his big frame. Overall, yes Manuel have a better game. But to me I think he is more of an inside player,something that GSM does not need considering the team primarily needs a center and that is I think where Ballesteros fits in. Manuel if you want him to play 3 I think we are all set in that position with Ellis and Dylan plus jensen. As for playing the 4, well he could improve the position but is more of a luxury at this point considering we are not really lacking in PF. Besides he will be an undersized 4. As you said it is what the team needs .... It is really the only CENTER position at this point . the team does not need Manuel. If ever he would be a luxury, an upgrade over Willy wilson and perhaps Rudy Hatfield. GSM can live without him. And if what the team needs is actually only Ballesteros, you don't probably even need to use Tenorio as part of the trade asset to be able to get him. Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 uhm sir fatchubs, a center plays inside right? manuel offers an inside game although he is not a center...what i mean is that the inside presence should be there offensively, manuel can provide that...as for lester, i added him because the gsm would need another pg in case tenorio gets traded...again, tenorio is no a running pg, he is a half court set player as with his days with ateneo... if they want a running game, tenorio is not the key... they need an inside big to provide the rebounds and be a defensive threatalso they would need more consistency in the 3 and 4 position to run, maierhofer is the only 4 who runs in this team...if manuel joins ginebra then that 4 position will really be sealed for a running game...imagine this line up... jason, rico, vic, ellis, caguioa... Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Pumaren is in need of a PG. Cortez would probably be to his liking. Now its a matter of determining who among the big men they have is acceptable to us and they are willing to part with. Rob Reyes, Taha, Sena and Baclao are some names . Personally a straight up one on one trade involving Cortez and either of Reyes, Sena or Taha can be done. If its Baclao, I doubt if pakakawalan yan ng Air21 kung si Cortez lang ang kapalit. BTW, Ginebra already owns the draft pick of air21 for next year. Therefore most likely it will end up as either a number 1 or 2 pick. If not Greg then probably another Filam big. what if this is a ginebra ploy just like 1995...before it was marlou this season for greg slaughter... hehehe Quote Link to comment
fatchubs Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 uhm sir fatchubs, a center plays inside right? manuel offers an inside game although he is not a center...what i mean is that the inside presence should be there offensively, manuel can provide that...as for lester, i added him because the gsm would need another pg in case tenorio gets traded...again, tenorio is no a running pg, he is a half court set player as with his days with ateneo... if they want a running game, tenorio is not the key... they need an inside big to provide the rebounds and be a defensive threatalso they would need more consistency in the 3 and 4 position to run, maierhofer is the only 4 who runs in this team...if manuel joins ginebra then that 4 position will really be sealed for a running game...imagine this line up... jason, rico, vic, ellis, caguioa...There are centers that plays also on the outside ... Mick Penisi is one of them. So the question is do you really want a CENTER that can provide the rebounds and be a defensive threat or a POWER FORWARD, an undersized one at that, who can play inside offensively but may be too small to intimidate or match-up against taller opponents. I beg to disagree, LA has the speed to play a running game we've seen him do that just like against the BAtang Pier. He can set up (halfcourt) plays too. We can play Jensen at the 4, the guy can run. Hatfield I believe still can run the break. But as I said I do not disagree that Manuel can provide an upgrade at the 4 but then it is more of a luxury than a necessity. Besides there will now be am excess of PF in the team ...we'll have manuel, Wilson, Rico, Hatfield and Espiritu. That's 5 PF in the team not to count Kerby who plays that position as well. And yet you're talking about balance when the trade to get Manuel will lead to a situation of an over supply of PF. Manuel I believe is not a rebounding demon ... undersize pa. How can we run if that lineup with a frontline of rico and Manuel can't control the boards and we can't be competitive defensively against bigger teams like purefoods? what if this is a ginebra ploy just like 1995...before it was marlou this season for greg slaughter... hehehe I think they really have that intent when they traded with Air21 Quote Link to comment
Kazekage.Gaara Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 sir kyoji, walang team na papayag kung si cortez ang isasama (well siguro kung air21 or global port hehehe)tenorio will be the trade bait here... dun sa suggestion ko na trade mababalance ng ginebra ang talent nila with the addition of two big guys, one of which can play multiple positions) and a steady point guard with international experience...hindi na sila heavy sa sf at guards... balanse na ang team pwede siguro trade nila si cortez sa air21 or global port for a future draft pick (greg slaughter) Then balewala yung trade na ginawa nila for Tenorio. Do remember that they got Tenorio to stabilize their aging back court of MC11 and JJ13, not to mention Labagala. They won't trade away Tenorio, unless it's really for a big name, and a 1 on 1 trade at that. There are centers that plays also on the outside ... Mick Penisi is one of them. So the question is do you really want a CENTER that can provide the rebounds and be a defensive threat or a POWER FORWARD, an undersized one at that, who can play inside offensively but may be too small to intimidate or match-up against taller opponents. I beg to disagree, LA has the speed to play a running game we've seen him do that just like against the BAtang Pier. He can set up (halfcourt) plays too. We can play Jensen at the 4, the guy can run. Hatfield I believe still can run the break. But as I said I do not disagree that Manuel can provide an upgrade at the 4 but then it is more of a luxury than a necessity. Besides there will now be am excess of PF in the team ...we'll have manuel, Wilson, Rico, Hatfield and Espiritu. That's 5 PF in the team not to count Kerby who plays that position as well. And yet you're talking about balance when the trade to get Manuel will lead to a situation of an over supply of PF. Manuel I believe is not a rebounding demon ... undersize pa. How can we run if that lineup with a frontline of rico and Manuel can't control the boards and we can't be competitive defensively against bigger teams like purefoods? I think they really have that intent when they traded with Air21 So far, the only teams na pwede nilang pagtrade-an na may interesadong magbigay ng big man would be Global and Air 21. The rest won't budge their lineups unless Eala gets a stupid idea in his empty head to mess up the SMC teams even further. KUNG MAY TAGA GINEBRA MANAGEMENT MAN NA MEMBER NG MTC... PLEASE LET ALFRANCIS CHUA COACH THE TEAM, kahit isang game lang. If the team wins, then let him coach until the team loses. Pag nagtuloy tuloy, ibig sabihin, si Siot talaga ang buwisit sa lineup. Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 oh well... yung discussion natin about trades and coaches ay malamang di mapansin unless dun tayo as aktv magpost... i have a better idea... EB tayo... next game ng ginebra tapos pagawa ako tarpaulin saying that siot should resign from the team. Quote Link to comment
photographer Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 oh well... yung discussion natin about trades and coaches ay malamang di mapansin unless dun tayo as aktv magpost... i have a better idea... EB tayo... next game ng ginebra tapos pagawa ako tarpaulin saying that siot should resign from the team. Good idea kaya lang baka palabasin tayo sa coliseum Pero it would be nice na maski isang laro lang magkita kits tayo at manood Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Good idea kaya lang baka palabasin tayo sa coliseum Pero it would be nice na maski isang laro lang magkita kits tayo at manood freedom of speech di ba??? but i think the gsm management would really look at it with some concern if fans would actually do that... Quote Link to comment
brun0magtangol Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 oh well... yung discussion natin about trades and coaches ay malamang di mapansin unless dun tayo as aktv magpost... i have a better idea... EB tayo... next game ng ginebra tapos pagawa ako tarpaulin saying that siot should resign from the team.ayus yan... spakol pagkatapos... ayus me alibi na uli ako... Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 hahaha... as sabi ni photographer malamang di natin matapos ang game pag may pinakita tayong banner na magresign na si siot... kaya diretso spakol na tayo Quote Link to comment
photographer Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 freedom of speech di ba??? but i think the gsm management would really look at it with some concern if fans would actually do that... Iniisip ko lang baka maglulupasay at gayahin ni Siot yung ginawa ng coach namin nuon sa Toyota, si Fort Acuna nang sabihan siya ni manager and owner Dante Silverio na tanggal na siya as coach ng team. Ayun, uminom ng Baygon, PATAY! Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Iniisip ko lang baka maglulupasay at gayahin ni Siot yung ginawa ng coach namin nuon sa Toyota, si Fort Acuna nang sabihan siya ni manager and owner Dante Silverio na tanggal na siya as coach ng team. Ayun, uminom ng Baygon, PATAY! i think that case was because they didn't win the grand slam that year... actually natakot ako na baka gayahin yun ni derek pumaren nung 1995... Quote Link to comment
photographer Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 hahaha... as sabi ni photographer malamang di natin matapos ang game pag may pinakita tayong banner na magresign na si siot... kaya diretso spakol na tayo Happy............Happy Sauna Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 ipapalipat ba natin sa MPS or SPA thread ang BGK thread??? hahahhaha... yung case dun sa toyota was more of hindi sila nag grandslam kaya siya nagpakamatay... akala ko mauulit yun nung 1995 ng di nag grandslam ang sunkist... Quote Link to comment
photographer Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 ipapalipat ba natin sa MPS or SPA thread ang BGK thread??? hahahhaha... yung case dun sa toyota was more of hindi sila nag grandslam kaya siya nagpakamatay... akala ko mauulit yun nung 1995 ng di nag grandslam ang sunkist... I think nag contribute sa pagtitiwakal ni Fort Acuna, aside from him being fired by Toyota, was the fact napakasakit ng pagkatalo nila. Lamang sila ng 4 points going into the last 16 seconds and kapag nanalo sila, or either team, that is U-Tex, magiging champion. Nahabol ng U-Tex ang Toyota through the efforts of their import si Glenn McDonald, nag overtime pa sila. Sa overtime, talo ang Toyota. Daming nasira sa dugout ng Araneta. Quote Link to comment
*kalel* Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 ginebra was successful with siot a few years back giving the team its first major b2b championship... the play was simple...siot used a 3-guard line up with menk cutting from the middle... obviously they could not do it this time around... their big men need to step up.... hatfield is a rebounding and defensive specialist while kerby is still finding his former game... coaching staff should evaluate what they really need now... obviously they should get plays to maximize their guards.. Quote Link to comment
ray004 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 ginebra was successful with siot a few years back giving the team its first major b2b championship... the play was simple...siot used a 3-guard line up with menk cutting from the middle... obviously they could not do it this time around... their big men need to step up.... hatfield is a rebounding and defensive specialist while kerby is still finding his former game... coaching staff should evaluate what they really need now... obviously they should get plays to maximize their guards.. i agree with you. there was a time siot was really good and effective. i can't take that away from him. he was a champion coach. i respected him for that. but then, time caught up with his style of coaching, and so with some players too. it's either you adjust or step down. the game is evolving. pag di ka nakasabay sa evolution ng laro, maiiwanan ka... that's what's happening to ginebra right now. we have good players right now. the problem is, as i see it, siot cannot maximize and exploit all the good players at his disposal. Quote Link to comment
mokong10101 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Siot is making a huge mistake. Un mga plays na ginagawa nila date like 3-guard lineups with Menk playing center/power forward will not work anymore. Una un mga players na un matatanda na o retirado na. Ang basketball ngaun is all about pick n roll at ang point-guard ang hari ng court at dapat sa PG umiikot ang opensa. Tenorio is a brilliant PG pero masyado syang nagde-defer ke Cagioua at ibang mainstay instead na sya ang dapat na mag take initiative. Nakakasama pa un kung sino-sino lang pinapasok ni siot. Tapos na ang panahon na pwde kang magpalaro ng 10-11 players sa isang 48 minute game. Pansin nyo sa NBA laging short lineup ang gamit with the starters logging in 30-35 mins each. Kung balasa ka ng balasa natural walang rhythm un player makukuha. Pumili dapat si siot ng 8-9 na player rotation un iba dapat bangko na. Ultimately na ke tenorio ang key. The offense needs to start with by him being able to penetrate the paint. Madaming shooters Ginebra ang kailangan lang malibre. Kung mag-defer lage kay Mark at Kerby kangkungan ang patutunguhan talaga nila. Dominante dapat ang PG. Quote Link to comment
Agent_mulder Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 gayahin na lang nila yung nangyari nung 90s nagkarroon ng coach trade pumaren-guiao this time siot-gregorio... agree???? Let's be realistic, Gregorio is a good coach though i hate his court antics (ma-drama masyado hehe) option pero remember guys that he left the smc franchise for the mvp franchise, kaya malabo na 'yan. hanap pa sa iba, eh, nasa atin na si Al Francis Chua Alfrancis Chua is a good suggestion. Pumaren is in need of a PG. Cortez would probably be to his liking. Now its a matter of determining who among the big men they have is acceptable to us and they are willing to part with. Rob Reyes, Taha, Sena and Baclao are some names . Personally a straight up one on one trade involving Cortez and either of Reyes, Sena or Taha can be done. If its Baclao, I doubt if pakakawalan yan ng Air21 kung si Cortez lang ang kapalit. BTW, Ginebra already owns the draft pick of air21 for next year. Therefore most likely it will end up as either a number 1 or 2 pick. If not Greg then probably another Filam big. If they are going to let go of Cortez, might as well as for Rob Reyes, sayang lang si Rob sa air21, noong nasa petron s'ya medyo nagagamit s'ya at nakita naman natin ang kakayahan n'ya. Quote Link to comment
fatchubs Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) 1351840482[/url]' post='8406874']If they are going to let go of Cortez, might as well as for Rob Reyes, sayang lang si Rob sa air21, noong nasa petron s'ya medyo nagagamit s'ya at nakita naman natin ang kakayahan n'ya. Na-injured ata yun mama at kababalik pa Lang. Agree ako, among the bigs of air21 first choice ko si Baclao then si Reyes. I doubt Kung pagkakatan si Noy so Rob would be the logical one to ask for.Si Taha maganda rin ang pinapakita. Pero being a rookie I doubt Kung bibigyan ng opportunity yan ni Siot. Baka ibangko Lang din. Sena just like Isip is a power forward. We don't need PF. Edited November 2, 2012 by fatchubs Quote Link to comment
*kalel* Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 i think they need a good pf/c who is an inside threat.... Kerby is a midpost player...... Quote Link to comment
photographer Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 NOVEMBER 4 FIRST TRIPLEHEADER IN 3 YEARS Published on November 3, 2012 This coming Sunday, November 4, is still going to have a tripleheader in the PBA Philippine Cup eliminations. Barako Bull takes on Globalport in the 3:00 p.m. first game at the Smart Araneta Coliseum, Meralco tangles with Rain or Shine in the 5:15 p.m. second game then San Mig Coffee battles Barangay Ginebra San Miguel in the 7:30 p.m. nightcap. The template for encoding the game schedules in website (www.pba.ph) does not allow a third game on the same day nor two same playdates with different schedules. Hence the Mixers-Kings game was conveniently pencilled for November 5 when it is really for November 4. There is no PBA game on Monday, November 5. This Sunday will be the first tripleheader in the PBA since Smart Gilas was a guest team in the 2009-10 Philippine Cup eliminations. Quote Link to comment
*kalel* Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 oo nga... nakalagay monday Quote Link to comment
brun0magtangol Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 mas mauna pa yatang magpalit ng coach ang lakers .... brown for Siot na lang Quote Link to comment
Pnat8R Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I think siot needs to change his strategy..Ginebra lineup now being no legitimate center but have excellent guards/outside shooters will be successful in a triangle offense or a dribble and drive offense.. I agree why not let toroman coach the team...his style of drive and kick outside will suit Ginebra.. All game lost by Ginebra was a slow tempo type of ginebra Quote Link to comment
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