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Corkscrew

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sir corkscrew sa amoranto stadium kami may gym sila dun , dun kami train sana minsan visit ka....

 

"SIR"? Hahaha! I feel old. Thanks, but no need.

 

Nakapunta na ako sa Amoranto Stadium. Di ko alam na may MMA din pala sa inyo.

 

May RC Hobby Shop dating malapit dyan kaya ako napadaan.

 

Magandang-maganda ang mga review na nadinig ko sa boxing training dyan sa Amoranto. Paki-post or PM lang bro training schedule ninyo. I would love to come over and see how you guys train, and see also what you train in. Thanks for the invite. Appreciate it. :)

 

regards,

 

Corky

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  • 2 weeks later...

masters, interested ako in self defense, medyo matanda nga lang ako... 3(UBO! UBO!) na ako... advice naman... ano ang madaling matutunan na self defense...?

 

meron ba kayong mapapayo na school na malapit sa laloma...?

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just curious...

 

when you do a muai thai roundhouse kick aimed to the thigh... do you hit it with your instep or your shin?

 

ive been training kicks with my left in-step (the instep i dont use), and it feels like my insteps gonna break after 4-5 kicks out of the heavy bag... i end up limping afterwards although i usually wake up feeling better.

 

how do i train for this kick? thanx in advance :)

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member of beaux's brotherhood trained mainly in karate some taekwondo, comjuka and jujitsu.

 

nice to see people having interest again.

 

I come to you with only karate, empty hands.

I have no weapons, but should I be forced

to defend myself, my honor, or my principals,

Should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong

Then here are my weapons,

My empty hands.

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just curious...

 

when you do a muai thai roundhouse kick aimed to the thigh... do you hit it with your instep or your shin?

 

ive been training kicks with my left in-step (the instep i dont use), and it feels like my insteps gonna break after 4-5 kicks out of the heavy bag... i end up limping afterwards although i usually wake up feeling better.

 

how do i train for this kick? thanx in advance :)

 

 

Beautiful question.

 

The more common method is to use the SHIN to hit any part of your opponents' body (not just the thigh). If you use your instep, much like how taekwondo (TKD) players do it... you're in trouble. The power generated by muay thai kicks is so great that you could injure yourself. If by mistake, you hit with your toes, top of your foot, or instep... at a very high speed, full-body torque & all... sheesh...

 

In TKD, kicking with the instep is good. Because the power generation here is NOT the same as muay thai. TKD is best used as a precision striking fighting method. Muay thai cares less about target, and just hammers away at anything.

 

About 8 years ago, my sparring partner/teacher in muay thai & I went at it. No armor, no pads, no gloves... at one point, we struck each other simultaneously with a round kick to the thigh. We both missed, in the sense that we hit using the instep rather than the shin. The sparring stopped, as we both hopped backwards in pain. I could not walk for three days after that. My partner? He couldn't walk for three months. Did I injure him? Nope... the injury he gained was caused by his OWN effort. Since he kicks much more powerfully than I... his pain, tissue damage & tendon tear on his instep were all commesurate to his power.

 

So be careful with this.

 

I humbly suggest that you immediately put a stop to kicking with the instep, give your ankles ample time to heal. Use ditdajow if you can find some. Then resume your training of that foot after one month has passed. The reason for this, is to give your muscles time to UNLEARN.... take out the muscle memory. Otherwise, it will become a habit - and it will be the way you fight. In a real life self defense situation -it would be sad to kick your opponent in the balls, and at the same time tear your own foot off. :)

 

I hope this helps. Best of luck with your training.

 

Corky

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thanx for the advice corkscrew... i'm glad i didn't break my ankle (i only broke it once, and that is from an inverse heel hook that i was stupid enough not to tap out to, hehe).

 

i started kicking using my shins as the contact point... and while i do not end up limping out of a potential broken ankle, i do end up limping from those sharp shin pains *lol* while it doesnt cause injury, the pain can get too sharp at times that i have to take breaks (and stop in the process). i think the heavy bags i kick in wasnt made for roundhouse kicks (it's too fat and heavy) ... but that's the way i like it. it trains me to kick any surface with as less hesitation as much as possible. how can i "get use" to this sharp shin pains? what if my shin hits a knee?

 

and oh, a friend told me that its ok to use my in-step as a contact point when i aim for the jaw since it isnt as solid as the thigh or mid section (is it? i know the head is hard enough to break fists, what more a flimsy ankle bone?)... what's your thought on this? ... im thinking that using my instep gets me more height and in the process, i can reach the jaw of those taller than me.

 

i really agree with what you said about "the power generated from a muai thai roundhouse is not similar to the one's in TKD" ... because i noticed that when i kick with my lead foot (right), my ankles dont feel like breaking eventhough i generate a lot of force with it. one thing i am not use to though, is that using my shins to hit the contact point doesnt make the affirming "whapak!" sound when it hits the bag, hehe.

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thanx for the advice corkscrew... i'm glad i didn't break my ankle (i only broke it once, and that is from an inverse heel hook that i was stupid enough not to tap out to, hehe).

 

No problem bro. If there is any way that I can help, I will. Just don't assume that I'm a Master. Because in all honesty, I am not. I am sharing with you my past experiences. I do not do Muay Thai anymore. But if what I have learned can help you survive a life-threatening situation... I see no reason to be secretive and why I would not share some information.

 

I too have my own share of broken bones (but not because I didn't tap out). :)

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i started kicking using my shins as the contact point... and while i do not end up limping out of a potential broken ankle, i do end up limping from those sharp shin pains *lol* while it doesnt cause injury, the pain can get too sharp at times that i have to take breaks (and stop in the process). i think the heavy bags i kick in wasnt made for roundhouse kicks (it's too fat and heavy) ... but that's the way i like it. it trains me to kick any surface with as less hesitation as much as possible. how can i "get use" to this sharp shin pains? what if my shin hits a knee?

 

Okay... let me present a few ideas so that you can decide for yourself what is best for you. Brace yourself, this will be long:

 

Pain is a good thing. It indicates what level of punishment your body can take. If it gets to be too much, stop immediately. From the Internal Martial Arts point of view, my teacher taught me to be aware of what is happening within. Excessive pain is never good. If you broke a bone or tore a ligament... and PAIN did not exist - how would you know that its time to stop training? Obviosly, training any further would only cause more harm.

 

On the other hand, several external martial arts don't really care about pain. As an example, the method of training for muay thai is to keep hitting your shins against a target of gradually increasing density. Meaning, you hit something soft at first... eventually getting to the point where you kick a tree full force. This is done to "deaden" the nerves so that you won't feel pain when you kick. The nerves are "deadened" due to two things - thickening of the tissue under the skin & muscles, and by nerve damage to the tiny nerves of the shin area. There is also some increase in the density of the tibula-fibula bones (comprising your lower leg). FYI - nerves do not regenerate.

 

If you choose the second option, then I refer you again to dit-da-jow. It is an ancient chinese medical concoction which at first application to your skin feels cool. But, in a few minutes the mild anesthetic in it begins to take effect. This will allow you to kick the bag longer, and deaden the pain. Dit-da-jow is available at Squadron Shop & at Hung Fut (kung fu school of George Ramos near La Salle Taft). For a small bottle, it will cost you around 300 to 400. A liter is about 1K. Even if I don't do this kind of training (anymore) I find it useful for healing bruises, which happens anyways irrespective of martial arts.

 

So, its up to you what you decide. But these, are the facts.

 

About hitting the knee... read on. :)

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and oh, a friend told me that its ok to use my in-step as a contact point when i aim for the jaw since it isnt as solid as the thigh or mid section (is it? i know the head is hard enough to break fists, what more a flimsy ankle bone?)... what's your thought on this? ... im thinking that using my instep gets me more height and in the process, i can reach the jaw of those taller than me.

 

There are just two warring concepts here. One is saying the technique is more important than the target. The other is saying the target is more important than the technique.

 

If for you technique is more important, then use the SHIN always.

 

If target is more important, then how does it matter if you kick him with your SHIN or with your INSTEP? If the target is soft... you can even use a toe-kick (kick leads with the ball of your foot, NOT really your toes).

 

 

As an addendum, you might want to reconsider kicking high. It looks fantastic. I can't do it. I admire the athleticism & flexibility of anyone who can. BUT... under no circumstance do I want to kick high. Ever.

 

If I wanted to kick a guy's nose in... then I simply kick him in the balls first, or open him up by kicking his knees outwards... he bends down as a result of my action... and viola! His nose goes down somewhere near my hip level. Easy target. But if he were in this position... his nose wouldn't be what I would want to break.

 

Now which is easier? Do I train to kick low multiple times? Or I train to kick high? Either way works. Its really up to you.

 

 

Now about the head... and the jaw:

 

These are multiple targets altogether. When you say the head... its confusing for me since you can hit so many things there: Temple, forehead, nosebridge, eye, ear, nose... etc, etc. These ALL have different densities and strengths/weaknesses. The forehead is one of the strongest parts of the head. And you are right... it can be used as a weapon. I don't recommend hitting it... not even with your shin. About the jaw... kindly clarify for me... is it an open jaw or a closed jaw? Again, something different.

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i really agree with what you said about "the power generated from a muai thai roundhouse is not similar to the one's in TKD" ... because i noticed that when i kick with my lead foot (right), my ankles dont feel like breaking eventhough i generate a lot of force with it. one thing i am not use to though, is that using my shins to hit the contact point doesnt make the affirming "whapak!" sound when it hits the bag, hehe.

 

PHYSICS: Power = mass x velocity2 (squared)

 

TKD and several Korean martial arts have a different theory of power generation from muay thai. Now I do not mean to say that it either is weak, ineffective or useless (because anything is powerful in its own right). In Korean kicking, the general idea behind power generation is Opposition of forces (this is not the ONLY theory, but it is the main one). The upper body moves in one direction, and the lower body moves in the opposite. This allows for greater velocity in kicking, without much focus on involving body mass in the equation. So looking at the physics equation above, more velocity less mass... what would be the product?

 

In Muay Thai, the whole body mass goes into power generation. Since more MASS is involved, the greater the force. Now, muay thai doesn't necessarily have far less velocity. Its just that the emphasis is involving more mass into the equation. So more mass less velocity... what would be the product?

 

The correct answer would be... Power.

 

Either theory of power generates considerable FORCE.

 

It is a question of quantities or increments thereof.

 

Now, believe it or not... YOUR BODY IS CAPABLE OF GENERATING MORE POWER THAN IT IS ABLE TO WITHSTAND. Too much power, and you hurt yourself. Please take my word for it when I say that when I throw certain kinds of strikes, I literally hurt myself. The blood rushes too fast into my hands and fingers... I literally burst a few small blood vessels (tips of fingers turn bluish-black after doing it often enough). You don't believe me? I won't demonstrate. But I will be happy to teach you how to do it... so you can hurt yourself if you like. :)

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Another idea: TYPES OF FORCE

 

Now when you mentioned "WHAPAK" in your email... I was thinking that you're probably using a snapping motion in your kick.. Because, a Round Kick delivered in traditional thai fashion doesn't sound like a "whapak" but rather tends to go "BLAG". This reflects the amount of weight or MASS involved in the kick. A "whapak" seems to me like you'd snapped your kick and pulled it back. Thats not the right way to do a muay thai kick. I'm not saying its useless or whathaveyou... it just doesn't sound right to me. Better we do an EB somewhere private... you show me, and I'll comment. If needed, I will demonstrate what I can.

 

Suffice to say that there are different kinds of Force. One kind is "SNAPPING" Force. It sounds like a "whapak" on the punching bag and is akin to a whip. It does IMPACT damage. Another kind of force is "DRIVING" force. This is the "Blag" characteristic sound I mentioned earlier. It tends to PUSH the opponent along with the force - again, because more MASS is involved. Now there is a third, which is a combination of snapping & driving force. This in my humble opinion, is the most efficient of the three. By adding more mass - you sacrifice speed. By focusing too much on speed, you sacrifice mass. In this case, you try to get the best of both worlds.

 

But there is value in pure snapping. As there is in pure push. It really depends on NEED. One of my favorite sayings as taught to me by my old kickboxing teacher is "Fighting is Fighting". Everything has value.

 

 

I hope that what I wrote did not confuse you, and perhaps added a little more to what you already know. At the very least, I hope you found it entertaining. I enjoyed writing what I did. :)

 

As my main teacher would say "Best of luck in your training."

 

regards,

 

Corky

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thanks for all your replies... im getting a lot of insight from them.

 

as to comment on the part where i kick using my lead leg (right), i dont snap it back... i drive it full force into the bag. i think the reason why it has a "whapak" sound is because i use my instep as a contact point. i think the instep is soft and fleshy, and upon contact with the bag, makes a "clapping" sound.

 

as on my first post, where i kicked with my balance leg (left) doing the thai motion... the bag also had a "whapak" sound - although that is for the price of me limping afterwards.

 

i tried training, using my shins as a contact point awhile ago... and i think im progressing very well because i notice my shins hurting a lot more.

 

thanks for the advice on the medication... and i'll just send you a PM when we can meet so that you can check my moves.

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thanks for all your replies... im getting a lot of insight from them.

 

as to comment on the part where i kick using my lead leg (right), i dont snap it back... i drive it full force into the bag. i think the reason why it has a "whapak" sound is because i use my instep as a contact point. i think the instep is soft and fleshy, and upon contact with the bag, makes a "clapping" sound.

 

as on my first post, where i kicked with my balance leg (left) doing the thai motion... the bag also had a "whapak" sound - although that is for the price of me limping afterwards.

 

i tried training, using my shins as a contact point awhile ago... and i think im progressing very well because i notice my shins hurting a lot more.

 

thanks for the advice on the medication... and i'll just send you a PM when we can meet so that you can check my moves.

 

 

No problem. Just let me know in advance, my schedule of late has been erratic. But I'd be glad to take a look.

 

regards.

 

Corky

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hey there pips...

 

had practiced karatedo in my early years, stopped when i was sixteen...

 

after which... did some basketball, was good at it... then in my college days, bodybuilding...

 

i am 25 years old, stopped lifting weights since 2005... weighed around, 210 in my compeitive years... now after a year of office work here in the city... i gained an amazing 60lbs, i am around 280lbs now...

 

my health is at risk... i tried to work out in the gym, pero i am looking for something spiritual... i have a background in martial arts, but one thing that i find most interesting is the art of AIKIDO... could anyone please help me get a training??? as to where to look, who to talk to, i have no idea...

 

i want something different now... something that could give me a sound mind... and a healthy body...

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how about aikido training??? do anyone here know where i could go to get the best aikido training??? please pm me the details.... thanks...

 

UP Vanguard Building, DCMT. Top floor, when you reach the top turn left. There's a small room to the left. UP Aikido Club trains here. Teacher is Tom Cruz 6th dan, vey nice guy. You dont have to be a UP student to join.

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Thanks. Even a little news is good. Although I did read in another thread (under Mixed Martial Arts - kahapon ko lang nakita) here yesterday that Gerry Dino had already passed away. Sad to have read that news.

 

BTW - who is your Sensei?

 

Andy Macion has cancer, I cant remember what type of cancer. Yes, Gerry Dino passed away due to an ailment, again I forgot what kind of ailment.

 

Emir Reyes is my sensei. Sometimes Sam Bernales (asst coach of DLSU judo) drops by at PAJA and gives us some lessons.

 

Timing is a difficult proposition in the sense that its hard to share anything concrete about it. But you're right, it is very important. Only experience will teach you that. Basta sali lang ng sali ng tournament. Don't aim for medals at the start. Aim to gain experience & confidence. It took me 9 gruelling tournaments of absolute failure before I won my first medal.

 

I'll keep that in mind

 

To share my opinion, I would have a different approach to what is essential in Judo. To sum it up in one word, Judo is all about BALANCE. With it, your opponent can't throw you. Without it... well, we quickly become acquainted with the dojo's ceiling and its many intricacies. :)

 

Likewise, as you mentioned below - the number one deterrent to throwing our opponent is his Resistance. While he may have speed, agility and/or strength, there are many ways of getting around that. Ultimately, it will boil down to his own sense of balance & your ability to take it away. Without balance, anything you do to your opponent will work.

 

Hay... what you'd written brings back so many memories. Yes, thats all true. Nakakapagod to use power all the time. Even if you're strong, by the time you get to your third, or fourth opponent... its hard to even keep your arms up. I recall a tournament wherein, by the time I got to my ninth opponent - the tips of my fingers were already dark blue.

 

Hehe, oh how I can relate. Yung tipong gusto mo pa mag laro but your body says " I can do no more"

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Good mornin Martial Artist.

 

Just want to say my opinion about various Martial Arts.

 

Im a former Taekwando Gin under Sir Ambat here in Pque. I stopped last Dec 2003 after my Red Belt promotion. Its a good exercise, and a good hobby. But I think in real life situation, di mo sya magagamit. We were not taught how to punch properly. Also yung mga practical kicks na ginagawa ng Muai Thai, bawal din gawin. Puro instep kicks or kicks na dapat paa ang tatama.

 

I think Muai Thai, Boxing, at URCC type ( I forgot yung twag, yung puro grapling at oponent take down) ang mas magagamit sa real life situations.

 

As of other forms of MA, di ko sila kabisado. Well pls educate me.

 

 

Dude try back reading, there is an e book posted in this thread about street fighting. With your training and a little knowledge, you could be a walking killing machine.. :cool:

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