His Airness Michael Jordan

[revi]

^^^nice one derrick, okey sa listahan ah,

 

question....  If MJ didnt got his 6 rings because he (kunwari lang kung sakali) has no pippen, no phil jackson, no triangle offense and even no rodman, just his old doug collins and his usual bunch of bullcraps, matatawag ba natin syang Dr. J wannabe? o isang mortal na karibal lang ni dominique wilkins sa dunk? will all of us guys still kiss his ass the way we do , or do howard still call him god (take note of small "g") of basketball?

 

nagtatanong lang po...

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@Derrick: Dre, you forgot Vince Carter.. Although he was called the Living Highlight Reel which was more of the Nique type of name call.. VC was also regarded as an "heir apparent.." diba? He is a high flyer (no doubt!).. he is a scorer, slasher.. but he lacked the wins in the playoffs and his popularity just waned.. His transfer to the Nets did not help his popularity.. although it did increase his chance to win a championhsip.. (Pre, sa beckett nga di ba, yung RC ni VC ang pinakamatagal sa Hot List..)

 

@KT: "If MJ did not win his championships would he still be considered as (arguably) the Greatest?" My answer is NO..

 

Why? Coz the championships were needed to make the man.. Winning the first three made the drama great.. made the man a legend.. But when he came back and won three more.. the drama became greater that he was considered an icon..

 

And yup.. even if he had the talent.. but fell short in accomplishments.. even with tons of MVP and NBA Defensive of the Year awards.. he will be regarded as just a Dr. J wannabe.. to whom he was measured against in his first few years in the L.. To add, he will be regarded as a Sir Charles, an Ewing, a Reggie (sino pa ba?) who never won a single ring.. but had tons of talent..

 

And even though he was marketed, was endorsed like so many in this thread say.. Those things will just go for naught coz he lacked the accomplishments to go with his talent and the drama would just wane.. Those winning shots in the regular season an the playoffs.. they will just be forgotten in time..

 

But because he was the "leader" of the Bulls.. Even if he did not have Pippen and just had Bill Wennington as the go to Center and Orlando Woolridge as his second option.. And just got known for his flair and his love for the game.. His name in The 50 greatest players/Hall of Fame is a shoe-in..

[mannyger]

Basta para sa akin MJ is the greatest player of all time!

Yang mga nagsisikatan ngayon sa NBA, most probably

they also idolized MJ and served him as inspiration in

basketball...

[wolverine78]

It was not all marketing.. it was not all media..

 

When Grant Hill was tagged as the next MJ.. Fila really spent a lot to have his mug plastered all over.. Sprite had him.. So minarket din siya di ba? And he was even billed as the heir apparent.. Hell, his autographed cards were selling like 15,000 at that time.. which was second to Jordan's auto..

 

But he failed big time.. due to injuries.. Tough luck for Hill.. got traded and never was able to regain that form when he came out of Duke..

 

Injuries lang ba? Walang kasing drama..

 

Wolvie, Jordan was the torch bearer not just because of marketing.. he became that because he had the talent, the charisma.. he had the flair for the dramatic..

 

David Stern and the NBA chose him to be the flag bearer of the NBA.. to make him huge by advertising.. by marketing.. But why did they choose him.. Coz he had that "extra kick" that Magic was telling the media.. he had that flair..

 

Trademarking is a good move? Sure, it is.. But still, it won't survive if you do not have the talent, the flair to go along with your trademarking.. Converse made Magic and Bird their spokespersons, it did succeed.. but time went by and a more exciting kid came in.. His battles with them, with the Bad boys of Detroit, the one-on-one battles with Nique.. Yun ang drama..

 

Am I just talking about the awards and championships? Jordan had so many highlights, winning moments that were considered to be very dramatic in the eyes of many.. Yun ang extra kick na parating sinasabi ni Magic Johnson.. Championships, awards? Kulang yan to be considered as an icon..

 

Naalala mo pa yung nag-slouch siya nung championship game against Utah kay Pippen.. that he had a stomach ailment but still played strong.. Yun ang drama..

 

Those last second shots against Cleveland, Utah.. Yung isang katutak na 3 pointers against the Blazers.. yun pasa niya kay Kerr at kay Paxson for the go-ahead or the winning basket.. yung acrobatic shot niya against the Barkley-led Suns.. At yung laban niya sa slam dunk contests against the Human Highlight Reel.. It had all people salivating and wanting for more.. Yun ang drama..

 

Kung ikaw sa tingin mo ay marketing.. sa akin ay hindi.. kulang ang marketing kung hindi gagawa ang tao.. at kulang din ang acrobatic dunks.. ang precision shots.. kung hindi ka nananalo.. at kulang din ang nananalo lang kung walang drama ang pagkapanalo mo.. Jordan had these.. that's why marketing him became successful..

 

Maswerte ang Nike.. dahil their gamble on Jordan was the best move ever by the shoe company.. Whoever thought that this kid who was cut with the Laney team to make those big shots in college and in his career in the NBA.. Many even gave Jordan doubts when he was injured for most of this second season.. A lot lost hope for the Bulls.. Many thought that Jordan can not shoot.. can not defend.. can not learn to pass.. He developed all of these in his playing years.. Became a "household" entry in the All Defensive Team.. And had those assist highlight reels to make us (viewers) see that in time he learned how to pass.. and trust his team mates..

 

You think the marketing of the Jordan brand of Nike would be enough to fuel the sales.. the name recall.. Naahh!! Jordan also did something to fuel the sales, the name recall, for him being tagged as one of the most known athletes in the world..  :cool:

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Dude again it was the ingenuity of the marketing of his name that made him great. Do not compare Grant Hill to Jordan because the poor guy did not take care of himself during his prime :thumbsdownsmiley: He is a CHAMPION like the other greats who played the game no question about it. But everything was just good timing for his name to be known because of the products that he became associated with from the footwear to the cologne. The guy was a walking goldmine for retailers, advertisers and parents of NBA players wanna be. He encouraged youngsters (Highschool) to skip college and jump to the Pros. Another known Jordan-like marketing that is succesful right now is...Yao Ming because of where he came from - C H I N A which has an estimated 4 billion in population. Yao Ming can be "great" believe me because of this branding strategy. And how is Yao doing now?! Yao can retire without a championship and even be more popular that jordan in years to come that is a fact

 

No offense to Jordan lovers here i admire (and respect) the great michael jordan but it ain't all about the game that made him an icon :mtc:

[Guest kicx]

Just a quick look of the "air"apparents:

 

1. Minor(can't believe they called him Baby Mike)

2. Rider (originator of the east bay funk dunk or better known as between the legs)

3. Hill/Hardaway/Stackhouse(Injuries, injuries, injuries)

4. Francis(attitude and migraines)

5. JRich (more like Wilkins bec of the windmills)

6. Ray Allen (No heart!!!)

7. Mcgrady(will that back ever hold-up for a complete season)

8. AI (similarities stopped at the 30 pts ave but was dropped bec stern thought he was too gangsta)

9. Kobe (closest thing we have to MJ minus the controversies)

10. Lebron (similar number but more of a MJ/Bird/Magic hybrid)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

harold minor ba or miner? if i remember they called him baby jordan

 

si finley wala sa list mo. he's from chicago

[derrick28]

Damn Bro! I did forget Carter! Thanks for the addendum Bro Revi! Yup his cards did skyrocket when he won the slamdunk title back then. Bro Kicx may point ka about Fin-Dog. I think he even played one on one with MJ when he was in high school as his prize for being the mvp of some league. Eniweys, maybe during Fin's early career when he was attacking the rim with reckless abandon.

[derrick28]

Tama ka bro. I stand corrected. Harold Miner aka Baby Jordan!

[Guest kicx]

Dude again it was the ingenuity of the marketing of his name that made him great. Do not compare Grant Hill to Jordan because the poor guy did not take care of himself during his prime :thumbsdownsmiley: He is a CHAMPION like the other greats who played the game no question about it. But everything was just good timing for his name to be known because of the products that he became associated with from the footwear to the cologne. The guy was a walking goldmine for retailers, advertisers and parents of NBA players wanna be. He encouraged youngsters (Highschool) to skip college and jump to the Pros. Another known Jordan-like marketing that is succesful right now is...Yao Ming because of where he came from - C H I N A which has an estimated 4 billion in population. Yao Ming can be "great" believe me because of this branding strategy. And how is Yao doing now?! Yao can retire without a championship and even be more popular that jordan in years to come that is a fact

 

No offense to Jordan lovers here i admire (and respect) the great michael jordan but it ain't all about the game that made him an icon :mtc:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

it's not all about marketing, you should also have the best product which in this case it's MJ. Marketing can only get you as far.

 

YAO does not have a MJ like marketing, I would even bet that MJ is as popular as Yao in China. Damn, they even gave him a Chinese name. If Yao has a great marketing team, then he should have been no. 1 or at least in the top five in the U.S.,

[revi]

Dude again it was the ingenuity of the marketing of his name that made him great. Do not compare Grant Hill to Jordan because the poor guy did not take care of himself during his prime :thumbsdownsmiley: He is a CHAMPION like the other greats who played the game no question about it. But everything was just good timing for his name to be known because of the products that he became associated with from the footwear to the cologne. The guy was a walking goldmine for retailers, advertisers and parents of NBA players wanna be. He encouraged youngsters (Highschool) to skip college and jump to the Pros. Another known Jordan-like marketing that is succesful right now is...Yao Ming because of where he came from - C H I N A which has an estimated 4 billion in population. Yao Ming can be "great" believe me because of this branding strategy. And how is Yao doing now?! Yao can retire without a championship and even be more popular that jordan in years to come that is a fact

 

No offense to Jordan lovers here i admire (and respect) the great michael jordan but it ain't all about the game that made him an icon :mtc:

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Whoa! Wolvie can't stop clawing eh? :thumbsupsmiley:

 

Kicx answered you correctly.. "Ingenuity.." That's your word for marketing Jordan.. I am laughing at that bro.. No offense but that is lame.. In marketing, sure ingenuity, originality does help but marketing won't do anything if your product is nothing..

 

Now, going to Grant Hill.. I did not compare him to Air Jordan.. I was just saying that Fila also took a gamble in making Duke33 their spokesperson.. Di ba kinuha din nila si Stackhouse when they both played together in Detroit.. But because (as you have said na hindi niya inalagaan ang sarili niya) naging prone siya sa injury nawala ang lahat ng pinaghirapan ng FILA.. Yung ang point ko.. Kahit na anong marketing ang gawin ng FILA kay Hill.. walang mangyayari dahil walang kwenta ang product.. injured and in time, never came back into form..

 

If it ain't all about the game that made him an icon.. Then what?

 

I have answered that in my sooooo many posts here.. DRAMA!!! The flair for the dramatic.. If winning was the essence.. it was the drama that made people salivate for more and watch his games repeatedly.. It ain't just the championships, dude.. Hindi lang yung clutch shots.. hindi lang awards.. it was how he won that made him an icon..

 

it's not all about marketing, you should also have the best product which in this case it's MJ.  Marketing can only get you as far.

 

YAO does not have a MJ like marketing, I would even bet that MJ is as popular as Yao in China. Damn, they even gave him a Chinese name.  If Yao has a great marketing team, then he should have been no. 1 or at least in the top five in the U.S.,

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Wolvie said that Yao can retire without winning a championship and be more known than Jordan.. Hehehe!!! Wow, tough statement from an X-Man, hehehe!!! - joke lang dre, wolvie.. Yao Ming was a hyped up big man when he entered the L.. They said that he would dominate.. For me, he is too soft to dominate the L in the center post.. He is being compared to an Olajuwon? the second coming of the Dream? Naah!

 

I agree with you on this one, kicx.. Hell, even with a great marketing strategy.. kahit gaano ka original.. kahit gaano katalino yang mga tao mo, Yao will not be more popular than Jordan just because of marketing.. Yao or anyone to be considered the torch bearer of a certain sport need to have talent and need to perform well.. In case of MJ, he did all of those with class and flair.. He had the meat and added the perfect gravy for a perfect meal..

 

Enough of this BS.. Its getting redundant.. Would like to ask the non-believers out there, If David Stern's dick got hard whenever he watches Jordan's acrobatic moves made him wanna spend millions to market MJ, then what moved him to do such a thing? Why not Nique.. high flyer din.. why not Magic or Bird or Isaiah - who were champions.. why not Barkley - who had the bad boy flair, why not Shaq - who was dubbed as the most immovable force? Why not them.. Did MJ sucked the Commish's dick to gain his respect?

Edited May 16, 2006 by revi

[antwanshakeel]

speaking of kobe, he is no mini jordan! not even close. the guy just lacks character.

[bukn0y]

speaking of kobe, he is no mini jordan!  not even close. the guy just lacks character.

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here's the thread for kobe http://manilatonight.com/index.php?showtopic=16851&st=1695

 

we cant compare 2 people with 2 different life style.

 

but as for comparing kobe to jordan on playing style there are some resemblance.

 

but i dont think i could compare kobe to jordan because it is not good comparing 2 player while they have different perspective.

[derrick28]

Well as great as Jordan is/was he was smart enough to hire the best PR persons. I think his agent (the name escapes me) was the pioneer of the gazillion bucks transactions for professional athletes. Another dude (damn the name escapes me again) was responsble for damage control. Remember how many controversies sprung up during Jordan's career? Gambling, Mafia, Affairs, throwing games, Divorce and death of Dad? All were handle by his PR team--- low-key and immediately and off the public eye. Thus at the end of the day Jordan still smelled like Roses. Now take that L.A. dude (I won't mention the name ala Shaq), won championships, an unbelievable athletic freak, and is probably the best in the L right now, where the heck is his image right now? I think that whole Denver brouhahaha could have been handled quitely and properly if he hired the right people. Sheesh, in the end he still paid the big bucks to shut up the bitch and he still took an irrepairable damage to his image. Think that Nike ad (love me, hate me) could bring back the millions he lost from endorsements? Think it could ever bring back the love and respect? Kaya ngayun any kind of failure na gawin niya magnified a millionth time. People are still talking about his "tank" on game 7 of their Phoenix series.

 

See the difference Jordan was smart. Nobody crucified him when he drafted Brown. Nobody crucified him when he came back and failed to make the play-offs. People were rooting for him to make the perfect story book ending at the last all-stars(see fault din ni Kobe bakit nag-overtime yun---joke lang) People are forgiving of MJ because he and his people made his image UNTARNISHABLE!!!

[kanto-terrorist]

^^^nice one derrick, no one here even thought about that....that's one hell of an eye opener. very intriguing.

[howard_the_duck]

Well as great as Jordan is/was he was smart enough to hire the best PR persons. I think his agent (the name escapes me) was the pioneer of the gazillion bucks transactions for professional athletes. Another dude (damn the name escapes me again) was responsble for damage control. Remember how many controversies sprung up during Jordan's career? Gambling, Mafia, Affairs, throwing games, Divorce and death of Dad? All were handle by his PR team--- low-key and immediately and off the public eye. Thus at the end of the day Jordan still smelled like Roses. Now take that L.A. dude (I won't mention the name ala Shaq), won championships, an unbelievable athletic freak, and is probably the best in the L right now, where the heck is his image right now? I think that whole Denver brouhahaha could have been handled quitely and properly if he hired the right people. Sheesh, in the end he still paid the big bucks to shut up the bitch and he still took an irrepairable damage to his image. Think that Nike ad (love me, hate me) could bring back the millions he lost from endorsements? Think it could ever bring back the love and respect? Kaya ngayun any kind of failure na gawin niya magnified a millionth time. People are still talking about his "tank" on game 7 of their Phoenix series.

 

See the difference Jordan was smart. Nobody crucified him when he drafted Brown. Nobody crucified him when he came back and failed to make the play-offs. People were rooting for him to make the perfect story book ending at the last all-stars(see fault din ni Kobe bakit nag-overtime yun---joke lang) People are forgiving of MJ because he and his people made his image UNTARNISHABLE!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sinabi mo rin dude :goatee:

Edited May 17, 2006 by howard_the_duck

[PrettyboyPOPOY]

Well as great as Jordan is/was he was smart enough to hire the best PR persons. I think his agent (the name escapes me) was the pioneer of the gazillion bucks transactions for professional athletes. Another dude (damn the name escapes me again) was responsble for damage control. Remember how many controversies sprung up during Jordan's career? Gambling, Mafia, Affairs, throwing games, Divorce and death of Dad? All were handle by his PR team--- low-key and immediately and off the public eye. Thus at the end of the day Jordan still smelled like Roses. Now take that L.A. dude (I won't mention the name ala Shaq), won championships, an unbelievable athletic freak, and is probably the best in the L right now, where the heck is his image right now? I think that whole Denver brouhahaha could have been handled quitely and properly if he hired the right people. Sheesh, in the end he still paid the big bucks to shut up the bitch and he still took an irrepairable damage to his image. Think that Nike ad (love me, hate me) could bring back the millions he lost from endorsements? Think it could ever bring back the love and respect? Kaya ngayun any kind of failure na gawin niya magnified a millionth time. People are still talking about his "tank" on game 7 of their Phoenix series.

 

See the difference Jordan was smart. Nobody crucified him when he drafted Brown. Nobody crucified him when he came back and failed to make the play-offs. People were rooting for him to make the perfect story book ending at the last all-stars(see fault din ni Kobe bakit nag-overtime yun---joke lang) People are forgiving of MJ because he and his people made his image UNTARNISHABLE!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Great take.

Hats off to you bro.

:thumbsupsmiley:

[revi]

Well as great as Jordan is/was he was smart enough to hire the best PR persons. I think his agent (the name escapes me) was the pioneer of the gazillion bucks transactions for professional athletes. Another dude (damn the name escapes me again) was responsble for damage control. Remember how many controversies sprung up during Jordan's career? Gambling, Mafia, Affairs, throwing games, Divorce and death of Dad? All were handle by his PR team--- low-key and immediately and off the public eye. Thus at the end of the day Jordan still smelled like Roses. Now take that L.A. dude (I won't mention the name ala Shaq), won championships, an unbelievable athletic freak, and is probably the best in the L right now, where the heck is his image right now? I think that whole Denver brouhahaha could have been handled quitely and properly if he hired the right people. Sheesh, in the end he still paid the big bucks to shut up the bitch and he still took an irrepairable damage to his image. Think that Nike ad (love me, hate me) could bring back the millions he lost from endorsements? Think it could ever bring back the love and respect? Kaya ngayun any kind of failure na gawin niya magnified a millionth time. People are still talking about his "tank" on game 7 of their Phoenix series.

 

See the difference Jordan was smart. Nobody crucified him when he drafted Brown. Nobody crucified him when he came back and failed to make the play-offs. People were rooting for him to make the perfect story book ending at the last all-stars(see fault din ni Kobe bakit nag-overtime yun---joke lang) People are forgiving of MJ because he and his people made his image UNTARNISHABLE!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah.. The not so perfect things that Jordan made off-the-court (before the third coming) were handled pretty well.. But these would escalate and "magnified" if he had not been able to win..

 

Case in point: The gambling thing wanted to wreak havoc on Jordan's image at one point.. The 1991-92 season started off when MJ did not accompany the Bulls on their trip to the White House to meet President Bush.. Then a month later, Jordan encountered one of his major scandals.. as reports showed that a $57K check he wrote was found among the belongings of convicted cocaine dealer James Bouler, who was arrested for money laundering.. Jordan's alibi? He said that the money was a loan to Bouler who was building a golf driving range.. WTF? Further investigation revealed payments of $108K was made to murdered NC bail bondsman Eddie Dow.. And top it all, the checks were dated the time when the Bulls made that visit to the White House..

 

Jordan then went to testify at Bouler's trial.. He then admitted that the 57K was payment for gambling debt.. Jordan was let go, coz the legal part of the trial was satisfied with the statement.. But media was not.. Jordan said he lied coz he was caught off-guard and got embarassed..

 

And you are correct dre.. coz after this statement, Nike with MJ held a conference saying that they would donate $100,000 to Chicago Public Schools.. Talk about making the cat stop meowing under the rain.. Even David Stern protected his ass saying that there was no rule that was violated when media began to pry Jordan's gambling activities.. and I am telling you.. there were many..

 

God, I could only imagine the ridicule if those gambling acitivities really took its toll on the court.. What I am trying to say is that if he had not won the first three titles things would have gotten for the worse.. Media was on to him.. Maybe they got paid off to stop pestering him.. But all in all, gambling, the mystery death of his "pops," the divorce paled in comparison to the ridicule that Kobe Bryant had when he was charged of rape.. Kobe became the Mike Tyson of Basketball.. Controversies surrounded him off the court.. Hell, I would even assume that Magic's HIV case is nothing compared to KB81's rape case..

 

Derrick is correct.. Jordan did damage control.. But because he won, it diminished.. So his performance helped the damage control.. Without it.. any damage control system would fail.. And I am telling you if Kobe Bryant brings a championship to the Lakers the way Jordan did it.. that rape case? Baka sabihin ng karamihan.. Anong rape case?

 

Now, let us focus on the third coming, when Jordan came in as the President of the Wizards, the owner of the Wizards (who was also the owner of AOL.com) made it clear to him that he wanted his brains rather than just wanting his name.. (unlike Milwaukee's offer).. At naniwala naman si Air Jordan..

 

As iconic he was on the court, as a man behind a coat and tie he was not.. coz he inherited a team that was way above the salary cap.. and had the 2nd worst record in the L.. The players were Strickland (sakit ng ulo), The rock - Mitch Richmond - who was actually playing like this was his last years in the L, and Juwan Howard who just wanted the multi-million deal (which he got) and just relax.. Who else, Ike Austin, Jaihidi White.. and a young player in RIP Hamilton - the only bright spot.. Wow! Talk about the team of a decade.. This is where I will diss MJ.. hindi ba niya naisip ito? A blemished career behind the desk is just impossible to avoid..

 

Then he decided to really make changes.. by firing Gar Heard as the coach and replacing him with a college coach.. who eventually left after suffering humiliation.. He made changes.. giving up Howard to Dallas for Courtney Alexander and several other players like Christian Laettner.. Kaso wala pa din.. He decided to join the fray and drafted the kid Kwame Brown.. But he lacked the flair that he once had.. People were arguing.. Friends (like Charles and Magic) were not in favor of the third coming.. but Jordan wanted to prove something.. That he can lead the team as a player and as a man behind the desk.. He failed.. Kwame was a Olowakandi in the making.. and the Wizards lost..

 

I do think that people know that he failed.. Fans know.. Much like Willis Reed's, Elgin Baylor's -except for this year, Wes Unseld's career as executives for their respective ball clubs.. He still had several games na he took over but karamihan ay pangit.. That was the worst 2 years I ever saw MJ played and led..

 

But the enigma of the championships overshadowed the humiliation of the third coming.. People only remember the good times that the L had MJ.. Why? Because of marketing, because of damage control? Yun lang ba? Para sa akin hindi.. the bad light that Jordan was in when he was with the Wizards was overshadowed by those wins with the Bulls.. Without those lasting images in a Bulls' uniform.. fans would be magnifying the stupidity that Jordan did with the Wiz.. For me, it was not just the people whom he hired that made his name UNTARNISHABLE.. It also helped that Jordan won the way he won.. It made the task easier to make tapal.. hehehe!!! :thumbsupsmiley:

 

Much like if I compare his legacy with Isaiah Thomas.. Great player but stupid GM.. I bet no one would get Jordan as a "man behind the desk" to lead a team again.. And if he gets that job once again.. then I would diss him once again..

 

OT: BTW, derrick.. Si Mike "Steward" nakakuha ng LBJ na auto for 9K lang last week.. Naglaway nung sinabi presyo sa kaniya.. hehehe!!! Naghagilap tuloy ng pera.. hehehe!!!