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South China/West Philippine Sea


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#2141 dungeonbaby

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 02:08 PM

It'd be nice to think he was that intelligent, yes maybe he has the press figured out, but that that doesn't ring true in his dealings with China, which is the only issue of any importance here. The optics bad, the direct response awful. And I don't believe his weak response was anything but a dangerous mix of cowardice and exhaustion. I hope I'm wrong for our country's sake. 


Edited by dungeonbaby, 07 October 2019 - 02:09 PM.


#2142 camiar

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 03:00 PM

Abnoy had a lot of saber rattling and brave words to say against China about the West Philippine Sea.

 

Did it help? No.

 

We lost the Fiery Cross Reef (Kagitingan Reef) and Subi Reef (Zamora Reef) when China built their artificial islands on it.

 

And we just stared and watched them do it. To make matters worse, they used rock and soil materials quarried from Zambales as building materials! 

 

China do what they did to us as a way to send a message to Uncle Sam, sort of using the Chinese idiom "killing the chicken to scare the monkey".

 

Right now, our military is not strong enough to enforce our sovereignty. We cannot rely on the USA to fight for us. We had to do it ourselves. We need time to quietly strengthen ourselves. In the meantime, we should not prod China into imposing their power over our weakness, because for now, we can't do anything about it. There is time in the future for that, when we have gained our strength.

 

China stopped further island building when Du30 came to power. If it is because of what you call "cowardice" response, i'd say, his strategy must be working. 


Edited by camiar, 07 October 2019 - 03:06 PM.


#2143 dungeonbaby

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 08:42 PM

They already have an airstrip near us, have their claws dug in, why build more islands at a time when they're hurting economically.

 

Point is, I don't think anything they do or don't do with regard to the WPS is because of Duterte. 

 

Also don't think China needs us to send a message to the US. We're not that important to either nation. 


Edited by dungeonbaby, 07 October 2019 - 08:42 PM.


#2144 camiar

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 03:54 PM

They already have an airstrip near us, have their claws dug in, why build more islands at a time when they're hurting economically.

 

Point is, I don't think anything they do or don't do with regard to the WPS is because of Duterte. 

 

Also don't think China needs us to send a message to the US. We're not that important to either nation. 

 

You'll be surprised how strategically important the Philippines is to them. 

 

The Philippines is part of the First Island Chain. These are island nations who are allied to the USA, namely, Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, etc.. that forms a chain surrounding the South China Sea. The First Island Chain effectively keeps the Chinese Navy contained within the South China Sea. This is a specially useful advantage for the Americans in case hostilities break out between China and USA. 

 

There's also the second and third island chains that form strategic US defense lines in the Pacific against Chinese naval threat.

 

The Chinese are acutely aware of this vulnerability. That is why they're trying their best to woo the Philippines into their sphere of influence.  

 

And of course all Philippine presidents, including Duterte, knows this. Each of them have their strategies on how to play their cards with both USA and China. I observe that Ramos, GMA, and Du30 played their cards well. Abnoy squandered his chances with wrong moves.


Edited by camiar, 08 October 2019 - 04:07 PM.


#2145 dungeonbaby

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 10:09 AM

Hardly the point. 
 
If, as you say, China is trying to woo us then why is it "we should not prod China into imposing their power over our weakness?" Seems contrary to think we have leverage and then to also cower because we cannot use that leverage until we develop muscle. Then it isn't really leverage, is it?  As for biding our time, wasn't that the reason PNoy went to the UN, to stave off a threat while we were not able to deal with it militarily? I don't get the inconsistency and especially don't get this deep faith in Duterte's abilities. 
 
 
As I've said on this thread many years ago, occupation almost always amounts to ownership. Other presidents gave up our islands, I get what Duterte is saying, he's been dealt a difficult hand. But to say he is doing well on this issue is quite the leap. All many of us see is a continuing weakness on his part. I had hoped, given all his bluster during the beginning, that he'd at least be as bold as he was with Canadian garbage.   


#2146 darksoulriver

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 11:08 PM

may animated movie si dreamworks na lalabas

 

putek inalis yung visayas at mindanao sa map ng pilipinas hahaha 

 

but no idea what movie nkita ko lang yung pix sa FB



#2147 dungeonbaby

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 06:45 PM

may animated movie si dreamworks na lalabas
 
putek inalis yung visayas at mindanao sa map ng pilipinas hahaha 
 
but no idea what movie nkita ko lang yung pix sa FB


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#2148 camiar

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Posted Yesterday, 05:50 PM

 

Hardly the point. 
 
If, as you say, China is trying to woo us then why is it "we should not prod China into imposing their power over our weakness?" Seems contrary to think we have leverage and then to also cower because we cannot use that leverage until we develop muscle. Then it isn't really leverage, is it?  As for biding our time, wasn't that the reason PNoy went to the UN, to stave off a threat while we were not able to deal with it militarily? I don't get the inconsistency and especially don't get this deep faith in Duterte's abilities. 
 
 
As I've said on this thread many years ago, occupation almost always amounts to ownership. Other presidents gave up our islands, I get what Duterte is saying, he's been dealt a difficult hand. But to say he is doing well on this issue is quite the leap. All many of us see is a continuing weakness on his part. I had hoped, given all his bluster during the beginning, that he'd at least be as bold as he was with Canadian garbage.   

 

 

It is already a given that China can use its military might very effectively against us, at the moment. Our military move against China will only prod China to act militarily, too, tit-for-tat, which can be quite overwhelming for us. The artificial islands in one clear point. We, and the great US of A, just stood by and watched them prove to us exactly what they can do to exploit our weakness and the US impotence in the issue.

 

Yes, we won the Arbitral ruling, but the job of executing the Arbitral Court's ruling falls on us, the Philippines. But we are too weak to do that. No other country would be willing to go to war with China just to enforce a ruling that will benefit only us.  We are left on our own to claim and defend what is ours.

 

Forget the USA. They have become impotent. They can no longer fight for us.

 

I am in full support of our government's move to strengthen our external defense capability, precisely to counter China's expansive moves into our Exclusive Economic Zone, relying less on the USA, and more on our closer neighbors in Asia.  

 

But that will still take several years.The only real and practical choice left to us at the moment is diplomacy and international political pressure.






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