Supplements - to Take or Not to Take?

[Guest k....]

if i were u, i wudnt do that 

5 grams cguro.. di milligrams

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ngerkz should i guillotine my trainer now/ :cry: like i said the last time ive been a tad iffy about cycling creatine. mahina liver ko eh, it runs in the family

[budhaman]

what most people do is 1.5-2 g of creatine per lb of body weight, depending on you tolerance, etc., and cycling it on/off for 1-2 week periods.

 

are you serious? 5g per body weight?

[dawnman]

tnx kwol.....xenadrine is not banned pala sa tate??...i hope tama mga sources mo....

[hint-of-lime]

tnx kwol.....xenadrine is not banned pala sa tate??...i hope tama mga sources mo....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I believe somebody asked about xenadrine in the MTC medical thread. Here are abstracts from articles of studies done on xenadrine which were published by rep*table medical journals abroad and are on file in the Medline Database at www.pubmed.com:

 

Short-term metabolic and hemodynamic effects of ephedra and guarana combinations.

Haller CA, Jacob P, Benowitz NL.Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2005 Jun;77(6):560-71.

Department of Medicine, Division of Clinical Pharmacology, University of California, San Francisco, CA 94143, USA. dchaller@worldnet.att.net

 

OBJECTIVE: Serious adverse health events have been reported with the use of dietary supplements containing ephedra and guarana. We sought to determine whether repeated dosing and multi-ingredient formulations contribute to the adverse effects of these supplements. METHODS: In this study, 16 healthy adults (8 women) took 2 doses each of ephedra-guarana alone, Xenadrine RFA, a multicomponent dietary supplement containing 25 mg ephedra alkaloids and 200 mg caffeine, or placebo 5 hours apart in a randomized, double-blind, 3-arm crossover study. RESULTS: Peak plasma ephedrine levels averaged 130 to 140 ng/mL. Compared with placebo, Xenadrine and ephedra-guarana significantly increased heart rate (maximum increase, 9.4 +/- 8.6 beats/min; P = .002), blood pressure (maximum increase in systolic and diastolic pressure, 11.5 +/- 10.7 mm Hg and 7.3 +/- 7.4 mm Hg, respectively; P = .015), postprandial glucose concentration (maximum change, 41.0 +/- 18.8 mg/dL; P < .0001), and insulin concentration (maximum change, 41.2 +/- 47.8 microIU/mL; P = .005). Serum potassium concentrations were significantly decreased by both treatments. Hemodynamic and metabolic changes were observed after both the first and second doses. However, plasma free fatty acid concentrations increased after the first dose only. Xenadrine RFA produced higher increases in glucose concentration than ephedra-guarana, but no other pharmacodynamic differences between the treatments were found. CONCLUSIONS: Consumption of 2 doses of ephedra and guarana supplements, per supplement label recommendations, results in persistent increases in heart rate and blood pressure and unfavorable actions on glucose and potassium homeostasis. Such effects could be detrimental in persons with hypertension, atherosclerosis, or glucose intolerance, conditions that are strongly associated with obesity.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Coronary thrombosis related to use of Xenadrine RFA.

Sachdeva R, Sivasankaran S, Fishman RF, Zarich SW, McPherson CA.

Tex Heart Inst J. 2005;32(1):74-7.

Division of Cardiology, Department of Medicine, Bridgeport Hospital, Yale Universitty School of Medicine, Bridgeport, Connecticut 06610, USA.

 

Recently, ephedra was removed from the U.S. marketplace due to a heightened concern that dietary supplements containing ephedra may present "an unreasonable risk of illness or injury." This is the 1st time the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has banned an herbal supplement, and the ban sheds light on the potential harm of nutritional supplements that are used for weight loss or as a boost to athletic performance. We report the case of a body builder who used Xenadrine RFA, an ephedra-containing supplement, at recommended doses for nearly a year; he then experienced an acute myocardial infarction, which was documented to be secondary to thrombosis in situ. We ruled out other possible causes of myocardial infarction, as well a hypercoagulable state. There was no evidence of illicit drug use. Our report serves as a poignant reminder of the potential dangers of herbal supplementation, especially when used to heighten athletic performance.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ephedrine increases ventricular arrhythmias in conscious dogs after myocardial infarction.

Adamson PB, Suarez J, Ellis E, Kanaly T, Vanoli E.

J Am Coll Cardiol. 2004 Oct 19;44(8):1675-8.

Department of Physiology, Cardiovascular Diseases, University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, 920 S.L. Young Boulevard, Oklahoma City, OK 73190, USA. Philip-adamson@ouhsc.edu

 

OBJECTIVES: This study examined the hypothesis that the sympathomimetic activity of ephedrine increases the risk of lethal arrhythmias. BACKGROUND: The sympathomimetic amine, ephedrine, is used to augment physical performance and as a weight loss aid, but little is known about the cardiovascular consequences in individuals with ischemic heart disease. METHODS: Fifteen dogs at low risk for ventricular fibrillation (VF) during exercise and transient myocardial ischemia 30 days after a small anterior myocardial infarction were retested after five days of ephedrine use (Xenadrine, 0.4 mg/kg/day orally). To assess the effects of ephedrine on cardiac autonomic control, baroreceptor reflex sensitivity (BRS), heart rate (HR) variability, HR response to acute myocardial ischemia, and resting catecholamines were measured before and after ephedrine. Dogs were used as their own control when possible. RESULTS: Nine of 15 animals had increased ventricular arrhythmias during ephedrine treatment (p = 0.01) and four had VF. Three dogs that had VF could not be resuscitated. Five animals with increased arrhythmias during ephedrine treatment had none during a third exercise and ischemia test after drug washout. Heart rates were higher after 30 s of myocardial ischemia during ephedrine treatment (204 +/- 25 beats/min no drug vs. 218 +/- 26 beats/min with ephedrine, p = 0.03). All plasma catecholamines increased after ephedrine administration. No changes in BRS, HR variability, or exercise HR were noted. CONCLUSIONS: Ephedrine increases ischemia-dependent arrhythmias at doses recommended in over-the-counter preparations. Increased arrhythmia risk was associated with augmented ischemia-dependent sympathetic reflex activation.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Exercise-induced syncope associated with QT prolongation and ephedra-free Xenadrine.

Nasir JM, Durning SJ, Ferguson M, Barold HS, Haigney MC.

Mayo Clin Proc. 2004 Aug;79(8):1059-62. 

Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, MD 20814, USA.

 

The Food and Drug Administration recently banned the sale of ephedra alkaloids because of their association with arrhythmic sudden death, myocardial infarction, and stroke. This has resulted in the emergence of formulations marketed for weight loss and performance enhancement that are "ephedra free" but contain other sympathomimetic substances, the safety of which has not been established. We report a case of exercise-induced syncope in a healthy 22-year-old woman that occurred 1 hour after she took the second dose of Xenadrine EFX, an ephedra-free weight-loss supplement. Electrocardiography revealed prolongation of the QT interval (corrected QT, 516 milliseconds); this resolved in 24 hours. Results of echocardiography and exercise stress testing were normal. Nine months of monitoring with an implanted loop recorder revealed no arrhythmias in the absence of Xenadrine EFX. Although this product contains a number of compounds whose pharmacologic effect is poorly characterized, notable quantities of phenylephrine are present, and the proarrhythmic potential of this compound in the setting of exercise is discussed.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

An acute clinical trial evaluating the cardiovascular effects of an herbal ephedra-caffeine weight loss product in healthy overweight adults.

Kalman D, Incledon T, Gaunaurd I, Schwartz H, Krieger D.

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2002 Oct;26(10):1363-6.

Miami Research Associates, Miami, Florida 33143, USA. dkalman@miamiresearch.com

 

OBJECTIVE: This study was undertaken to determine the acute effects of a commercial weight loss supplement containing herbal ephedrine and caffeine on cardiovascular function in healthy overweight adults. DESIGN: Randomized double blind clinical trial evaluating the cardiovascular effects of an ephedra-caffeine (Xenadrine; XEN) based herbal product vs placebo (PLA). SUBJECTS: Twenty-seven healthy overweight adults (age 21-60 y; body mass index > or = 25 kg/m(2)). MEASUREMENTS: Systolic and diastolic blood pressure, heart rate, serial electrocardiograms (EKG) and Doppler echocardiograms. RESULTS: A comparison of means between the groups indicated no statistically significant differences at the start of the study for the variables above. There were no serious adverse events. When examining the effects of XEN vs PLA on cardiovascular health/function, there were no significant effects observed in heart rate, systolic blood pressure, diastolic blood pressure, left ventricular ejection fraction, heart valve function or in cardiovascular physiology within the parameters measured. CONCLUSION: These findings indicate that, over a 14-day period, ingestion of the commercial weight loss supplement in a healthy overweight population did not produce any noticeable cardiovascular side effects.

 

These 5 studies were enumerated after using "Xenadrine" as the search word. Four out of the three studies reported detrimental effects after use of the supplement xenadrine. The actual US-FDA ban is on Xenadrine RFA-1 which contains ephedra. You can view the ruling on the official website of the US-FDA on this link US-FDA Final Ruling on Ephedra containing compounds Note, however that one study mentioned among these 5 specifically mentioned the use of Xenadrine EFX.

 

And again, as with my spiel on steroids, you are the master of your body. I have said my piece and it is up to you to decide what you wish to do, knowing the possible consequenes of your actions. Choose well! *med

[don_cruzer]

daily routine sabay sa breakfast, Ascorbic Acid (smoker kasi) + Vitamin E (nagpapabata)

 

haven't noticed any change/improvement the past year... but who knows baka totoo pala sabi ni Doc, what do you have to loose, tuloy-tuloy lang.

[pogingpogi]

Ako naman amino ang iniinom ko amino 12000 before and after workout.  1 week lang inom ko nun kasi natakot ako na baka pag makatigil ako sa pag woworkout bigla nalang babagsak ang mascle ko, so til now hindi na ako nagtitake ng amino but i have a doctor friend at niyaya nya ako kung gusto ko ba daw ang steroids kasi mabilis daw magpalaki ng muscle, at yon ang ginagamit ng mga celibrety ngayon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

bro wag ka na lng magsteroids kase sabi skin family doctor na masama yun ...although talagang gaganda katawan mo pero pagtagaltagal tasaka ka niya babawian ....may side effects din yun hairloss,

[pogingpogi]

mga bro help naman...anu ba dapat ko gawin para pumayat..I lessen my food intake na nga pero ang hirap! di pa din ko pumapayat....should I take Xenarine or Hydroxicut?...tulong naman mga bro nalilito na ko eh.....

[Guest k....]

tnx kwol.....xenadrine is not banned pala sa tate??...i hope tama mga sources mo....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it used to be when they still had ephedera, but there was a mass movement to take out E from thermogenics, including muscletech (hydrox.) so yeah technically, hindi banned. but not just because it's not banned you can claim the right to abuse the stuff. parang cough syrup lang naman yan eh

 

mga bro help naman...anu ba dapat ko gawin para pumayat..I lessen my food intake na nga pero ang hirap! di pa din ko pumapayat....should I take Xenarine or Hydroxicut?...tulong naman mga bro nalilito na ko eh.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Testosterone Nation - Are You A Beginner:

After you have got your nutrition and workout in order, only then is it time to consider supplementation. For example, taking a fat loss supplement won't help you lose fat if you are consuming more calories than you are using in a day. Similarly, if you don't consume enough food, supplements designed to aid muscle growth will have very little effect.

[spitzky]

ngerkz should i guillotine my trainer now/  :cry:  like i said the last time ive been a tad iffy about cycling creatine. mahina liver ko eh, it runs in the family

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

if ur concerned about cycling creatine but ok ka lang sa "1.5-2 g of creatine per lb of body weight"... hhhmmmm.... if ur trainer told u to do that, SUE HIM!

[Guest k....]

if ur concerned about cycling creatine but ok ka lang sa "1.5-2 g of creatine per lb of body weight"... hhhmmmm.... if ur trainer told u to do that, SUE HIM!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nah that wasnt my trainer, i got that dosage from a google search :: ive been reading up a bit, and it looks like it's actually safer to cycle regular dosages on and off on month/bimonthly intervals, as opposed to taking "pre-workout dosages" steadily. I'm a big wuss tho, it'd prolly take me a month of thinking before i could be convinced of cycling creatine hahah

 

i was just wondering what's wrong with 1.5 to 2 g per lb of body weight? it seems like most supplementation material i see online, even med journals say the same thing :-/

[Google]

nah that wasnt my trainer, i got that dosage from a google search :: ive been reading up a bit, and it looks like it's actually safer to cycle regular dosages on and off on month/bimonthly intervals, as opposed to taking "pre-workout dosages" steadily. I'm a big wuss tho, it'd prolly take me a month of thinking before i could be convinced of cycling creatine hahah

 

i was just wondering what's wrong with 1.5 to 2 g per lb of body weight? it seems like most supplementation material i see online, even med journals say the same thing :-/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

bro, to be safe, just follow the 5 gms/day dosage. tapos rest ka for two weeks after a month's use, tapos balik ka ulit.

[budhaman]

u must be reffering to 1.5-2g of protien per pound. iba sa crea. loading phase is 20-25 g of crea for 5 days then 5-10 after that.

 

hope this helps.

[Guest k....]

u must be reffering to 1.5-2g of protien per pound. iba sa crea. loading phase is 20-25 g of crea for 5 days then 5-10 after that.

 

hope this helps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ahh right right..thank you sir

 

don't listen to a noob when he drops tips from a 2-second Google search :thumbsdownsmiley:

[budhaman]

I Have Pro-Rated 6 lbs. for only P2,300

 

pm me for details..

[probpt]

I Have Pro-Rated 6 lbs. for only P2,300

 

pm me for details..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

dude may nabibili na pro-rated here? sa costco sa US ko lang kasi napapabili yung akin e.

[r0bin]

guys, im planning to take creatine next month.

 

what's the proper volume and schedule of taking it?

 

i've read, 5gms/day for 2weeks? and then what? can u explain the cycling? is better? sori for my ignorance. i jaz wanted to be sure. thanks

[budhaman]

dude may nabibili na pro-rated here? sa costco sa US ko lang kasi napapabili yung akin e.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ako meron..

[dj_flip03]

Is there anyone here selling THERMOGAIN??? Any recommendations???

[wjc-934]

mga pre, san ba ako makabili ng amino acid na effective? and what kind?

 

anong store ba? bka may alam kayo..

 

TNX...

[apple44]

mga pre anong mga brands ng WHEY PROTEIN ang available sa Watsons or sa Megamall. Pasensiya na ang alam ko lang kasing bilihan eh Watson tsaka SM, i live in the province kasi.

 

Available ba ang Optimum Nutrtion (ON) 100% Whey sa Watsons or SM? thanks po!!

Saan din ba nakakabili ng GR8 whey? is it available sa Watsons?

[maksi]

mga pre anong mga brands ng WHEY PROTEIN ang available sa Watsons or sa Megamall. Pasensiya na ang alam ko lang kasing bilihan eh Watson tsaka SM, i live in the province kasi.

 

Available ba ang Optimum Nutrtion (ON) 100% Whey sa Watsons or SM?  thanks po!!

Saan din ba nakakabili ng GR8 whey? is it available sa Watsons?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

di ko sure if meron silang supplements dun per to be sure, punta ka sa grinhils, marami dun, check mo lang yung exp sa bottle. mas makakamura ka pag 5 or 10lbs ang bibilin mo. dapt around 2,700 yung 5 at 5k yung 10. :hypocritesmiley:

 

si brother edge nagbebenta kaya lang di ko makontak, mura sa kanya yung mag tinetake ko e.

 

h ey edge if your there, reply ka namn bro!

[apple44]

Suki kasi ako ng GNC at Healthy Options kasi lang muntik na akong himatayin sa price eh.

 

Healthy Options Show Me The Whey ( 2 lbs ) 2,152

GNC Pro Performance Whey Protein ( 6lbs ) 5,299

GNC Mega Whey ( 2lbs ) 3,000

 

I'm looking for cheaper but good quality whey protein. Gusto ko sana yung Optimum Nutrition 100%

Whey Protein kasi recommended cya ng www.bodybuilding.com. Saan ba nito nakakabili? Meron

ba nito sa Watsons, SM Megamall etc. Tanong ko din, meron na bang kasamang measuring spoon or

measuring scoop ang mga whey protein powder?.

 

Overprice kasi dito sa pinas ang mga whey protein kasi sa US yung GNC Pro Performance Whey Protein na 6lbs ang price eh 1,680 lang. Tapos yung Optimum Nutrition na 5lbs. eh 1,617 lang.

[budhaman]

Suki kasi ako ng GNC at Healthy Options kasi lang muntik na akong himatayin sa price eh.

 

Healthy Options Show Me The Whey ( 2 lbs )  2,152

GNC Pro Performance Whey Protein ( 6lbs ) 5,299

GNC Mega Whey                            ( 2lbs ) 3,000

 

I'm looking for cheaper but good quality whey protein. Gusto ko sana yung Optimum Nutrition 100%

Whey Protein kasi recommended cya ng www.bodybuilding.com. Saan ba nito nakakabili? Meron

ba nito sa Watsons, SM Megamall etc. Tanong ko din, meron na bang kasamang measuring spoon or

measuring scoop ang mga whey protein powder?.

 

Overprice kasi dito sa pinas ang mga whey protein kasi sa US yung GNC Pro Performance Whey Protein na 6lbs ang price eh 1,680 lang. Tapos yung Optimum Nutrition na 5lbs. eh 1,617 lang.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

if you wanna go and order from bodybuilding.com and have it shipped here for you maybe it will turn out more expensive. you shouldnt be comparing prices from that site bcos iba ang rates nila. the peeps who sell em here syempre may patong na sila for their pagod etc. etc.

 

and yeah they have gr8 at watsons but its not that great of a brand. stick to ON's good quality for a good price. took ON's for 3 years but usually get the 10 pounder thou.

[mel_ian19_2001]

anu po ba kailngan whey protein or mass drinks? nalilito po kasi ako e

[budhaman]

it all depends on your goal..