Wine-savvy

[augustmoon]

^^ I think the best way to start appreciating good wines is to start drinking really bad ones and compare.  Carlo Rossi, Novellino and other super cheap wines come to mind.  Then move up the ladder and across the world.  Huwag mo na lang isipin kung anong prutas ang nalalasahan mo.  Sila bods, masi, agxo, at lipstick kaya nila, pero kung beginner ka tikim tikim ka lang.  Huwag garapal at iinumin ang buong bote.

 

Besides, ang alak ay dapat inumin sa social setting.  Not alone dahil pag mahilig uminom ng uminom ng mag-isa, at nagpapakalaseng ka, alcoholic ang tawag dun.

 

Sabi nga, acquired taste ang wine. Just like some other things. hehehe LOL

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If I start with apple cider...you think...i will develop a taste for good wine? may pag-asa ba Strigoi...or my tongue will acquire another skill LOL

[igol ays]

augustmoon and spongebobby...

 

i dont speak for  agxo, eagleyes, bods, pinoy, magaling, lipstick et. al, but i am learning as i go along too.  everytime is a new experience and i am enjoying the ride!!!!  sabay-sabay tayong lahat matuto sa isa't-isa... oh, pinoy... tagalog ito, ha! 

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i've been drinking wine for "almost" 30 years. for the most part, it is to me a matter of my reaction to the wine as being either "this IS good!!!" or "it's OK". i've never been into climates and growing temperatures, nor could i distinguish grape varieties just from drinking the wine.

[masi]

just finished an impromptu wine and single malt session with a few initimate friends tonight in my humble abode listening to an mp3 of tunes of the 60s and 70s!

 

we finished a bottle of a 1999 Joseph Drouhin - Nuit-Saint-Gorge Grands vins de bourgogne. It was just a bit overripe and there were signs of an overflow at the cork! Good thing, I decided to open it tonight. It was, to my impression, past its best as the nose was alluring as the ladies of this thread, aka, augustmoon, lipstick, miss manners, lana, cutie :* et. al. It was teasing me and my buddies, as well, and we cannot put a handle of what it wanted us to discover.

 

It had a visual of transluscent ruby, practically no tannins, smooth, buttery on the palate and the transition from mouth to follow through was seamless. Was it because of its age or may be "mishandling"? I, personally, would not know. My buddies were similarly baffled... like Bo Derek in the movie "10" by its flirtation.

 

I have to refer to my french wine encyclopedia to know more about it... and like any bourgogne, it was a pinot noir?!! All I can say up to this point is WOW!!! I'm so ignorant! perhaps, this, I may not forgive myself.

 

In between sips, we had so much to talk about... youth, how we got into this beautiful lifestyle of wine appreciation and of course, as in any gentleman's conversation wouldnt remiss....ladies in the house.

We had a simple bar chow of sauteed schubligs with champignons in EVO golden roasted garlic, dashed with fresh ground black pepper corns and kosher salt. (I can't believe that i can be so flowery with a simple "ginisa" dish!!!)

 

After we vanquished the wine, we proceeded to popping the cap of a Glenfiddich Special Reserve Single malt, a casualty of war from rummaging through my mom-in-law's pantry.

 

Such a discovery! as we poured in our shot glass, the nectar met our simplistic sense of smell with a visual which i could only describe as a speck of virgin morning dew touched by the golden rising sun... simply superb. the nose revealed a simple, understated elegence of an elaborate sceptre of nuttiness! A sip... ahhh! simply elegant... mild, like a carpet deserving of.... pardon my lack in eloquence... beyond words.

 

After a few shots of the nectar, and a lot of beautiful exchanges, my friends and I unanimously agreed that life has to go on ... tonight shall continue at another time next week!!! :thumbsupsmiley:

 

am i in a druken stupor or am i overwhelmed by tonight's experience... i keep that a secret! and you can only surmise. :goatee:

 

have a good weekend!!!!

Edited July 15, 2005 by masi

[agxo3]

agxo, have you tried the picnic area at la famiglia? it's nice as it's on a hillside.

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Not at La Famiglia, but the outdoor area at Viansa just south of Sonoma is real nice too. And they have a great Italian grocery/deli to get your food from. IN the summer they will fequently have a barbeque going. Goes great with their reds! Their zins stand up nicely to a bit of heat from the BBQ sauce.

[agxo3]

throughout the thread are basic lessons in wine and wine appreciation - there are several posts already- yun nga lang you just have to backread...

 

like the flavor wheel - pareng agxo - i might re-post it na lang uli...

 

it's difficult to start another wine thread because it would probably just be merged with this thread...

the mods merge similar topics here.....like when they merged SEX WITH FAT GIRLS with DO YOU GO FOR FAT WOMEN something thread

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Bods - yes, please do re-post that flavor wheel. And this time, I'll save it for future reference!

 

^^ I think the best way to start appreciating good wines is to start drinking really bad ones and compare.  Carlo Rossi, Novellino and other super cheap wines come to mind.  Then move up the ladder and across the world.  Huwag mo na lang isipin kung anong prutas ang nalalasahan mo.  Sila bods, masi, agxo, at lipstick kaya nila, pero kung beginner ka tikim tikim ka lang.  Huwag garapal at iinumin ang buong bote.

 

Besides, ang alak ay dapat inumin sa social setting.  Not alone dahil pag mahilig uminom ng uminom ng mag-isa, at nagpapakalaseng ka, alcoholic ang tawag dun.

 

Sabi nga, acquired taste ang wine. Just like some other things. hehehe LOL

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I disagree thoroughly. I think it's best to start with the best you can find. This will educate your tastebuds and train them to recognize the flavors you most enjoy. Then you can start branching out, trying wines from different price bands, and noting which meet YOUR criteria and which don't. I

 

If you start with bad wine, you'll be turned off to wine altogether and never discover the best wine has to offer. My REAL wine conversion moment came in a small degustation (tasting) in Nuit St. George in the Cote d' Or (Burgundy) in France. I tasted 7 wines that morning, ranging from a very young wine to one that had been resting and dev eloping for 5 years. All red, all pinots as Burgundies are. And when I tasted that 5 year old wine, it was a revelation! NO astringency - acids well in check. No mouth-puckering feeling - tannins well integrated and well rounded. And that burst of fruit! Raspberries and red cherries and strawberries all dancing around in my mouth! That hint of leather to ground you and the whiff of black pepper to put it all in perspective. I can still remember that wine. I bought a couple of bottles to bring home, and they are long gone, but the memory lives on.

 

I've been a pinot fan ever since.

 

augustmoon and spongebobby...

 

i dont speak for  agxo, eagleyes, bods, pinoy, magaling, lipstick et. al, but i am learning as i go along too.  everytime is a new experience and i am enjoying the ride!!!!  sabay-sabay tayong lahat matuto sa isa't-isa... oh, pinoy... tagalog ito, ha! 

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We're ALL learning as we go. Some of us have been going along this road longer thanothers, but this is a never-ending journey. I'd HATE for it to end! So if those of us with a bit more of a mental map can help you find your bearings, why then it will be our pleasure to do so!

 

pinoy,  you are awfully mean!!! i know you meant well when you said that starting with bad wines and comparing but your recommended wines, Carlo Rossi and Novellino, border BDSM!!! :evil:

 

but honestly though, taking from where Pinoy ended, start with P200 to P300 bottle wines.  The Gran Trillo P180 + is a reasonable blend which is truly value for money.  You may also start with Merlot  Shiraz and Cabernet Sauvignon.  Try to distinguish the flavors by smelling and tasting the wine.  You can store an opened bottle for a day if you cant finish it.  It is true that better quality wines are more expensive wines but it's not a hard and fast rule, albeit true 90 to 95% of the time.

How come I drink alone and am not an alcoholic... uhaw na ako!  I need a drink!!!!

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Personal experience says that there are good wines in pretty much every price range. HOW good is another issue. It's also true for me that as the prices go up, the proportion of good or outstanding wines grows. So for the 2-buck Chuck price band, I've found ONE wine I really liked. IN the $5-7 range, a couple. One of the best is Neibaum-Coppola's Rosso. A non-vintage table red. $6.99 and it stands up to anything in the $15 class. $10-20 there are more. I buy most of my daily drinkers from this price band. By the time I get to the over $50 range, there are only two or 3 bad ones I can think of!

 

Now remember - every bottle is different, every vintage is different. So caveat emptor. Try to taste before you buy. YOu can't taste a bottle before you buy but at least you can taste outof the same case. Sometimes. Depends on where you buy.

 

If I start with apple cider...you think...i will develop a taste for good wine?  may pag-asa ba Strigoi...or my tongue will acquire another skill LOL

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I don't think so - that tastes are so different. I CAN recommend a hard apple cider mixed half and half with a good stout or porter. That's called a snakebite and is a nice cool drink that goes well at a summer barbeque.

 

Put yourself in our hands and your tongue WILL develop a new skill!

 

i've been drinking wine for "almost" 30 years. for the most part, it is to me a matter of my reaction to the wine as being either "this IS good!!!" or "it's OK". i've never been into climates and growing temperatures, nor could i distinguish grape varieties just from drinking the wine. 

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Yeah but half the fun for me is delving in those aspects and trying to relate one to the other. It takes the wine experience to the next level intellectually and opens up yet another avenue of enjoyment for me.

[agxo3]

just finished an impromptu wine and single malt session with a few initimate friends tonight in my humble abode listening to an mp3 of tunes of the 60s and 70s!

 

we finished a bottle of a 1999 Joseph Drouhin - Nuit-Saint-Gorge  Grands vins de bourgogne.  It was just a bit overripe and there were signs of an overflow at the cork!  Good thing, I decided to open it tonight.  It was, to my impression, past its best as the nose was alluring as the ladies of this thread, aka, augustmoon, lipstick, miss manners, lana, cutie  :*  et. al.  It was teasing me and my buddies, as well, and we cannot put a handle of what it wanted us to discover.

 

It had a visual of transluscent ruby, practically no tannins, smooth, buttery on the palate and the transition from mouth to follow through was seamless.  Was it because of its age or may be "mishandling"?  I, personally, would not know.  My buddies were similarly baffled... like Bo Derek in the movie "10" by its flirtation.

 

I have to refer to my french wine encyclopedia to know more about it... and like any bourgogne, it was a pinot noir?!!  All I can say up to this point is WOW!!! I'm so ignorant! perhaps, this, I may not forgive myself.

 

In between sips, we had so much to talk about... youth, how we got into this beautiful lifestyle of wine appreciation and of course, as in any gentleman's conversation wouldnt remiss....ladies in the house.

We had a simple bar chow of sauteed schubligs with champignons in EVO golden roasted garlic, dashed with fresh ground black pepper corns and kosher salt. (I can't believe that i can be so flowery with a simple "ginisa" dish!!!)

 

After we vanquished the wine, we proceeded to popping the cap of a Glenfiddich Special Reserve Single malt, a casualty of war from rummaging through my mom-in-law's pantry.

 

Such a discovery!  as we poured in  our shot glass,  the nectar met our simplistic sense of smell with a visual which i could only describe as a speck of virgin morning dew touched by the golden rising sun... simply superb.  the nose revealed a simple, understated elegence of an elaborate sceptre of nuttiness!  A sip... ahhh!  simply elegant... mild, like a carpet deserving  of.... pardon my lack in eloquence... beyond words.

 

After a few shots of the nectar, and a lot of beautiful exchanges, my friends and I unanimously agreed that life has to go on ... tonight shall continue at another time next week!!! :thumbsupsmiley:

 

am i in a druken stupor or am i overwhelmed by tonight's experience... i keep that a secret!  and you can only surmise. :goatee:

 

have a good weekend!!!!

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Now THAT my friends, is how you write about wine! :thumbsupsmiley:

 

That 99 Niuts St. George should be years away from maturity. I would guess that it was improperly stored and got too hot at one point. The leakage is what makes me say that. Even if a wine is past its peak, leakage indicates that it either had a faulty cork or got too hot. The sweetness you smelled was probably caramel, resulting from the wine "cooking" a bit. Joseph Drouhin is one of the premiere producers in Bourguogne and generally his wines are among the best.

[agxo3]

and i thought Dean and DeLuca was a just a cafe across the NBC studios at Rockefeller!!!!   well, at least thats where i get a piece of brownie with my espresso...  part of my pilgrimage when i go to the Big Apple and visit my brother. :thumbsupsmiley:

 

eagleyes and you get the top end of cuisines there with so much variety of wines to boot.  this thread imploded with so much exchange after we opened the wine and food mix.

 

makes really excellent reading from we are! keep it up! :thumbsupsmiley:

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Nah - it's really a high end grocery store. While they have a nice store in NY, I think the one in St. Helena tops that one.

 

We do have a LOT of good food around here, and the wine to go with it. That's why I will be very sad if I have to move anywhere else.

[agxo3]

I just took a look at the Burgers thread and it remeinded me of dinner last night! I'm ALWAYS thinking about food! And wine!

 

We had burgers last night - hot off the BBQ. On English muffins toasted on the grill. With fresh yellow tomatoes sprinkled with sea salt, finely chopped garlic, and chopped parsley and drizzled with EVOO and balsamic vinegar. Nice! I had mine with the Retzlaff 2000 New Vines Cab, which as I've noted before, is more like a pinot in character although is tastes like a cab. Light and airy, low tannins. I chilled it slightly. Simple, quick and easy, but what a great combination!

[bods1000]

a happy weekend, folks!

 

gonna backread a bit and compose some sensible posts before this headache completely takes over

[pinoy_strigoi]

^^ thanks masi n bods for the great wine n whiskey eb.

 

The 80s rule!!!

[bods1000]

Just a few notes on tasting -

 

first, there are NO hard and fast rules. What works for you is what works!! However, there ARE some things you can do that are tried and true.....

 

1) don't fill up the glass. It's hard to see the color and get a good whiff of the aromas if the glass is too full.

2) make sure the wine is at the right temperature. Most people taste their reds too warm and their whites too cold. 55 deg F for whites, 65 deg F for reds is a good guide for most wines.

3) look at the color. It should be representative of the varietal. For example, cabs range from a deep claret (hence the name applied to Bordeaux which are generally cabs or cab/merlot blends) to a deep brick. A brown cab is likely to be a bad cab. Pinots are less dense and lighter, syrahs and petit sirahs tend to be inky and purplish.

3) does it have legs? Gently swirl the wine around the glass, tilting the glass to let the wine ride up the side almost to the rim. Does the wine run back down immediately? Or does it coat the side of the glass and slowly run down, forming "rivers" of wine. These are the "legs" of the wine. The more "legs" the higher the alcohol content. Higher is not always better - the alcohol content should match the varietal. For example, zins tend to be harvested riper, with more sugars, and will therefore have more alcohol (up to just shy of 16%) while a semillon may be down in the 11% range.

4) swirl the wine around the glass a bit. Gently! Best way I've found to do this is to set the glass on the table and gently move it in a small circle on the table. This aerates the wine and allows the aromas to release. The reason good wine glasses curve in at the top is to trap the vapors that carry the aromas. Is it a pleasant smell? Is there anything funky about the aromas? A wet sheep standing in the mud at your feet taking a dump, for example? Or are you getting aromas typical of the varietal? Citrus (predominantly grapefruit) in a chardonnay, for example. Apricot in a viognier. Plum or black cherries in a cab. Strawberries in a pinot.

5) NOW   (and only now!) take a sip. A small sip. Let it sit on the tip of your tongue. Now let it slide around your mouth. Take a small breath through your mouth. Does it change flavors? What do you taste? Are the flavors what you expect of this varietal?

6) swallow. How long do the flavors linger? That's the finish. The longer the finish, the longer you can savor the wine, therefore the better for you. Do the flavors change as you swallow and as the finish lingers? What are the flavors?

 

Bods posted a flavor wheel once upon a time. Backread and go look it up, print it out. It's a valuable resource.

 

One last thing - you may want to keep notes. It's a practice I started some time ago, but being the impatient person I am, I have let that practice fall by the wayside. I really should start it up again so I can note which of my wines I should be drinking and when.......and with what.

 

In the long run, what is important is how you feel about the wine. Do you like the aromas and flavors? If you do, then it's a good wine for you. Don't let anyone else impose their likes and dislikes on you. You will likely start out with a broad range of likes and if you're like most of us, you will soon develop a more discriminating palate and you will start to like some wines better than others. Make sure you know WHY you like the wines. It will help you in selecting new favorites. Remember - wine is a consumable, anqd a perishable one at that. What you love now will NOT be available forever. Wines in general (non-vintage Champagnes are a notable exception) will change from vintage to vintage. Not every wine you like will be good every year it's produced.

 

And all cabs, or pinots, or chards, or..... are NOT equal. Cabs from California taste different from Bordeaux and different from Aussie cabs and.......One thing about wines is what's called terroir - the location and soil conditions of the vineyard impart a certain character and set of flavors to the wines making the same varietal from different locations (even in the same valley!!!) taste slightly different. Some day I hope to be good enough to identify those differences, but for now, I am only aware of them when I taste the wines side by side. I do remember one cab that I tasted some time ago. I knew immediately that it was from the Monterey area. Why? There was a taste of artichokes in the wine, and that particular plot of land used to be planted exclusively to artichokes. The vineyard owner had decided to take out the 'chokes and plant grapes instead. It was a decidedly unpleasant experience for me. Not that I don't like artichokes, but artichokes and red wine, IMHO, don't mix too well.

 

Hope this helps!!!

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this is a beautiful primer...I learned quite a few things from this - or at least a new way of going about tasting...

thanks a lot, pare!

 

I'm still looking for the flavor wheel somewhere in these pages - gonna post it back as soon as i find it..

[bods1000]

I understand...will just try to keep up and absorb as much as our braincells can manage. 

 

Spongebob.  Sabay tayo.  Page 1

 

Thanks Bods.

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I'll try to find those posts which contain some basic lessons or primers and re-post them - heck, I myself need those primers from time to time

[bods1000]

^^ I think the best way to start appreciating good wines is to start drinking really bad ones and compare.  Carlo Rossi, Novellino and other super cheap wines come to mind.  Then move up the ladder and across the world.  Huwag mo na lang isipin kung anong prutas ang nalalasahan mo.  Sila bods, masi, agxo, at lipstick kaya nila, pero kung beginner ka tikim tikim ka lang.  Huwag garapal at iinumin ang buong bote.

 

Besides, ang alak ay dapat inumin sa social setting.  Not alone dahil pag mahilig uminom ng uminom ng mag-isa, at nagpapakalaseng ka, alcoholic ang tawag dun.

 

Sabi nga, acquired taste ang wine. Just like some other things. hehehe LOL

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I remember when I was starting, I bought these really cheap wines, not because I wanted to start out with the bad ones, but because I didn't want to gamble on something expensive and not like it. The first wines I bought were really downright bad - ang hirap ubusin! But since I was serious about getting into wine, I started to get interested in the more expensive ones - iniisip ko bakit ba mas mahal ang mga ito? They must be better, or so I thought. So I began buying more expensive ones - some were still bad, but the others gave me that window where I realized that the wine world was something worth exploring.

Here I am today - not much of an expert, still drinking some cheapos and bad ones , but I think forever enamored by the seemingly endless possibilities that wine can give you.

 

cheers, pare! nice meeting you!

[bods1000]

Alas, I 've been dealing with Japanese since the 80's in a cross section of industries; aviation, property development, semiconductors and project management but never got to see Japan except for a stop over in NRT!    I know the golfing, dining and karaoke   custom too well and their decision process, too.  Japanese food tops my list of favored cuisine and I just found out that Bods' in-law used to be chef in the leading, top-end Japanese restaurant in the Metro.  (sorry bods for the disclosure!)

 

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hehehe....

speaking of disclosures, I think pinoy blew the lid on something

 

well I guess staying true-to-form and not sacrificing authenticity will still give you the best cuisine there is.....

[masi]

a happy weekend, folks!

 

gonna backread a bit and compose some sensible posts before this headache completely takes over

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a headache? must be a hangover or those "sulfites" ... see, i learn for this thread!

 

is the headache because of too much drinking or the lack of it tonight? hope you are still (inspite of the headache) having a great weekend!