Eddy Syet Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Best: I don't want to cast a vote for "best" because none of the presidents on the list would qualify, in my honest opinion. I just voted for Erap by virtue of having the shortest tenure which means (at least for me) that he had the shortest time to plunder from the government treasury. Worst: Marcos. 20-year one-man rule. I don't care how many infrastructures were built during his time because that list should be compared to how many years he ruled the country. If we're going to get the average per year, I believe these infrastructures won't even measure "excellent" on any sclae. I believe that those buildings, and roads, and bridges are stained by the blood of the many Filipinos who died, were tortured, and vanished specially during the time of the Martial Law. I never was and never will be a fan of dictators. Quote Link to comment
Eddy Syet Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) So tell me, did the succeeding presidents match what Marcos did? Stained by blood? Where did you get that from? The yellow media? But hey, this is your opinion but the cold,hard fact is, Marcos was never convicted and Marcos did more for the Philippines than any other president before or after him. Syet, it will be hard to match up with someone who ruled for 20 years when you're only president for 6 years. Of course, Marcos can do more. But the people had no choice on that because he took that choice away from them when he declared Martial Law. No more elections, remember? I would agree that Marcos did more compared to other presidents before or after him but only because he was in power for an equivalent of 3 1/3 terms by current ruling (6-year term with no re-election). Maybe you'd like to read my answer to best president? I did say that none would qualify for that, in my opinion. I had Marcos as worst ever and I have no one for best. I only voted for Erap because the system would not allow me to cast "just" a vote on worst. Yes, it's a technical thingy. Surprise! I voted Marcos as worst but I did not vote for Aquino as best. I hope that would give you a clue about considering me an Aquinos fanatic because I'm not. Oh, and that thing about the yellow media? Let's just say that I read books of which my favorites are "Inside the Palace" by Beth Day-Romulo and "The Conjugal Dictatorship" by Primitivo Mijares. I also read countless articles about Marcos from Reader's Digest and Time Magazine. Now I don't know if they are part of what you call Yellow Media. If they are, pray enlighten me why you called them as such? Also, would you be able to point me to a reference material that's not biased towards the Aquinos or the Marcoses? You seem to know a lot of facts about that. Thank you in advance. Edited September 10, 2015 by SyetNaSyet Quote Link to comment
haroots2 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 So tell me, did the succeeding presidents match what Marcos did? Stained by blood? Where did you get that from? The yellow media? But hey, this is your opinion but the cold,hard fact is, Marcos was never convicted and Marcos did more for the Philippines than any other president before or after him. It doesn't mean that he wasn't convicted of any crime simply means he didn't commit it. He has all the power to commit a perfect crime since no one will ever dare to go against him and those who did are simply "silenced". Do you honestly think he can do the same in the EYES OF GOD? Does his soul now enjoys the life in heaven? Think not. Quote Link to comment
Eddy Syet Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Ok, so you think it's unfair to compare each president to Marcos in terms of achievements because he ruled for 20 years and each of them ruled for 6 years with the exception of GMA who ruled for 9 years. So to be fair, let's compare each of Marcos' terms to the terms of each president. Can you give me a president who did more than Marcos in any of Marcos' 4-year terms? Or maybe you can compare GMA's 9-year reign to Marcos' 9-year Martial Law period prior to the 1981 elections. Or maybe the 1981 elections until the 1986 snap elections. Take your pick. I am actually more interested in where you're getting your so-called facts. I cited some of the resources that I've read but you haven't provided any of yours until now. You also did not elaborate on your so-called "yellow media." Are my resources part of that? If yes, how can you say that? How can you say that your facts are accurate and correct and mine are not? I think you need to settle that first before we move on to other points. What do you think? I'm saying this because you keep on saying that facts are all around me and I can't beat facts. What are these facts exactly? Can you specifically mention some? I want this to be a learning experience for me. So I guess I'm waiting to be educated by you so fire away. Don't hold back. What should I know? Edited September 11, 2015 by SyetNaSyet Quote Link to comment
zolber Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I am actually more interested in where you're getting your so-called facts. I cited some of the resources that I've read but you haven't provided any of yours until now. You also did not elaborate on your so-called "yellow media." Are my resources part of that? If yes, how can you say that? How can you say that your facts are accurate and correct and mine are not? I think you need to settle that first before we move on to other points. What do you think? I'm saying this because you keep on saying that facts are all around me and I can't beat facts. What are these facts exactly? Can you specifically mention some? I want this to be a learning experience for me. So I guess I'm waiting to be educated by you so fire away. Don't hold back. What should I know? Allow me to educate you, Sir. Marcos is really without peer among Philippine presidents. He is the only Filipino president recognized by Forbes -- as the 2nd Most Corrupt Leader in the World for having embezzled $5 to &10 billion. Despite impoverishing our people by bankrupting the economy, he has remained beloved by many of his admirers -- a feat no other president can claim. He killed democracy by declaring martial law, yet many of our people still honor him for his greatness. No other president can put blinders on many of our people. No other president can stunt the thinking process of many of our people. Marcos is really the best. 1 Quote Link to comment
Eddy Syet Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Allow me to educate you, Sir. Marcos is really without peer among Philippine presidents. He is the only Filipino president recognized by Forbes -- as the 2nd Most Corrupt Leader in the World for having embezzled $5 to &10 billion. Despite impoverishing our people by bankrupting the economy, he has remained beloved by many of his admirers -- a feat no other president can claim. He killed democracy by declaring martial law, yet many of our people still honor him for his greatness. No other president can put blinders on many of our people. No other president can stunt the thinking process of many of our people. Marcos is really the best. Thank you, kind sir. Now if only other forumers here would educate me further. Edited September 12, 2015 by SyetNaSyet Quote Link to comment
Eddy Syet Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Check out the infrastructure around you. The roads you use, the NLEX, the SLEX, the power plants that provide us power, the LWUA which was mandated by Marcos to give water to the provinces, the Heart Center, the Lung Center, etc. I haven't read your resources. "Yellow media" meaning the Cory Aquino/Ninoy Aquino ass-kissing media. I have no idea what decade you were born in but it seems to me you weren't even born during 1986. Like I said, look around you and you'll know what Marcos did. See? You haven't read my resources. So how can you say that I'm saying what I'm saying because I'm influenced by too much yellow media? So the ass-kissing that you're talking about. Is that a fact that the media was ass-kissing whenever they say something good about the Aquinos or something bad about the Marcoses? If it's a fact - then you must have proof. May I ask what your proof is? I mean if you won't chastise the Marcoses about their being corrupt simply because they weren't convicted, then wouldn't it be selective judgment on your end to say that the "yellow media" exists when you don't have proof that the media was ass-kissing? Let me ask you: Isn't an ass-kissing media better than a government-controlled media? That's how it was during the Martial Law, right? You CANNOT report anything against, question, or criticize the government. At least with ass-kissing, there's freedom. You kiss ass because you want to. Now compare that with a press that's only reporting to the public what the government dictates. I've read up on Marcos' achievements. I know about everything that you mentioned. I was born in 1978. So yeah, I'm still a kid in 1986 but I'm already a human being then. Magkaiba tayo eh. Ako, I'm not saying that Marcos did not have any achievements to his name. I'm only saying that despite these achievements that you mentioned - the atrocities committed by the government, the police, and the military under his leadership cannot be ignored simply because - he wasn't convicted. Unfortunately, my research (or let's call it my reading of available materials about the Marcoses) ALSO showed the downside of his leadership. The way he treated his political rivals and their supporters and family, the international debt by the country that significantly grew during his tenure, the kidnappings, torture, and the judicial killings done by his elements are just some of the most infamous things that happened under his rule with an iron fist. Beth Day-Romulo for one, despite being married to Carlos P. Romulo who was a friend of the Marcoses, never failed to mention the lavish spending of Ferdinand and Imelda during Marcos' time in Malacanang. Marcos did a lot of things. A lot of good things. Unfortunately for this observer - he also did a lot of bad things that outweighed the good things he did. That, my friend, is why I voted for him as the Philippines' worst president. I'm not clueless. I have a valid reason. So did 8 other souls who voted him. See, I did not vote for PNoy as the best president ever in the country but he still out-voted Marcos in this thread by 1. As for the worst, Marcos' votes are twice as much as the second placer. I'm sure they have good reasons for voting him too. I doubt that they were under the influence of the "yellow media" as you call it. So that's it? He's the best (or not the worst) president because he built a lot of infrastructures? We will just discount the fact that he abolished a lot of freedoms and rights by declaring Martial Law? That he seized corporations and companies just because the owners oppose him (remember the Lopezes and the Osmenas)? That there were massive vote-buying, violence and cheating during the elections near the end of his stay in power? I believe I have enough reasons to support my vote. You on the other hand just continue to point at buildings, roads and bridges. Quote Link to comment
Eddy Syet Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Huh? Settle down? Why? Am I hot under the collar? I said to look around you and I thought you understood what I meant. Apparently, you didn't so I had to explain it in my post prior to this. What facts that you said did I exactly challenge? Refer to my post which is two posts above this. Not settle down. I said settle that. They're different. By that, I was referring to your argument about facts. Believe me, I understood what you meant. Maybe you're somehow thinking that I'm dumb. I assure you that I'm not. I don't believe anyone here is hot under the collar. Not you and specially not me. Facts. I was asking if you have proof that the media was ass-kissing whenever they criticize Marcos after the EDSA revolution. If I criticize PNoy now (which I love doing lately), does that mean that I'm pro-Marcos? Quote Link to comment
zolber Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 You know why Marcos was not convicted? He died on September 28, 1989, three years after he was ousted. You cannot prosecute nor convict the dead. Quote Link to comment
FleurDeLune Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 The other thread (with the same title as this) is visible now though it's still locked. I will hide it after 24hrs. manilatonight.com/index.php?showtopic=55080 Quote Link to comment
maddromeo Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Best: Marcos, Erap & GMA! GMA the best for the fiscal management of our country, she's the one who took us out of IMF management! Diversed our economy, opening it up with Chinese ang other foreign investor, unlike before heavily dependent sa US. Kaya nung 2008 World Financial Crisis di natin naramdaman mga Pilipino yan! Dinevelop ang mga probinsya at dinecentralized ang national government! Worst FVR, Noy & Cory! Cory started privatization and implemented WB/IMF Austerity measures! FVR binenta lahat ng government properties, GOCC's pati Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas! Republic Act No. 7653, otherwise known as the New Central Bank Act, Kaya bumagsak ang exchange rate ng Peso-Dollar! Pero si Erap ang nasisise lage dito kasi nagkataon term na nya yung tumama ang Asian Financial crisis at nag epekto ng masama ang pinaggagawa ni FVR! I voted Pnoy as the worst kasi matapos lahat ng iba president eh puro paurong ang pinaggagawa nya sa ating bansa! Cenentralized ulit ang gobyerno natin! Pweh! Edited September 12, 2015 by maddromeo Quote Link to comment
Eddy Syet Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 The other thread (with the same title as this) is visible now though it's still locked. I will hide it after 24hrs. manilatonight.com/index.php?showtopic=55080 +1 Quote Link to comment
Eddy Syet Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Did I say or imply that ass-kissing by the media is a fact? It is my opinion when I said that the "yellow media" is ass-kissing based on what I read about their demolition job on Marcos. In spite of the demolition job, the yellow media will have to live with one incontrovertible fact: Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos were never convicted. Opinion! And here you are lecturing me about facts. Paki-hiwalay please yung mga kini-claim mong facts sa opinions mo. Para lang malinaw. May previous thread pa pala ito. Even a forumer that you were debating with was asking for your sources but you cannot present any. So I guess di na lang ako aasa. It looks like everything you've been saying are opinions after all. Whatever those atrocities were, Marcos was never convicted so he is innocent until proven guilty. For me, what he did to alleviate the plight of the Filipino is not negated because of these alleged atrocities attributed to him. Sabi mo. So that's not a fact ulit - that's an opinion. Nasaan yung facts na matagal mo nang sinasabi? Doon ako interesado eh. Quote Link to comment
Eddy Syet Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 The ballooning international debt was caused by the IMF increasing interest rates not only on the Philippines but other countries. Treated political rivals? Why? Did he humiliate them in public? Had them killed? I never saw any political rival being humiliated in public. Are you sure he ordered these extrajudicial killings and torture? Sa previous thread ka pa hinihingan ng proof dyan. May nahanap ka na ba? Quote Link to comment
Eddy Syet Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 @ mason slake ^THAT is what you said in the previous thread. So please, stop asking me to prove anything to you. IKAW ang nakialam sa opinyon ko. So in this case, IKAW ang accuser, hindi po ako. So let's have those facts. Wala pa rin ba? Quote Link to comment
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