South China/West Philippine Sea

[heatseeker0714]

Seems the Japanese Home Defense Force is quite impressive despite the fact that these advanced weapons systems are for defensive use only.

 

The Chinese and the Japanese better start talking about their common problem very soon lest the current hostilities get out of hand and escalate into a full blown war.

 

Indeed them Japs are very impressive... Yan bang mga punyemas na yan sa Communist Party of China eh merong pantapat dito,

 

 

na punong-puno ng doze-dozenang ganito,

 

 

at di lang yan, pag naubos na yang mga yan eh nagtratransform sa ganito,

 

 

Yang mga commie a.holes na yan sa Beijing panis lahat yan sa mga apo ni Yamashita... :P

[vkalbos]

Mga Idol, hindi ba pwedeng "old skul" na si Voltes V muna?

[camiar]

On a more serious note, look at the new Japan Maritime Self Defence Force's (JMSDF) Helicopter-carrying "Destroyer".

 

This photo montage shows the newer and bigger Izumo next to its older smaller sister Hyuga, so you can compare their relative sizes. They may be carry helicopters only for now, but in the future, they can carry F-35s.

 

"Destroyer" pa lang yan, ha. Paano na kung gumawa na sila ng tunay na Aircraft Carrier?

 

Edited June 27, 2014 by camiar

[Julianda]

Nakakangitngit na nakakagalit itong mga hinayupak na mga intsik but we can only utter this article "It's easier said than done".

 

No choice: Destroy China's future PH military bases now

[camiar]

Compare JS Hyuga to USS George Washington. JS Izumo is 35% bigger than Hyuga.

Japan somehow realizes that it cannot rely too much on the US to protect its territorial rights vs China. So it is making a quick adjustment to its military capabilities, especially in protecting its shipping lanes in the South China Sea / West Philippine Sea.

 

Edited June 27, 2014 by camiar

[camiar]

It looks like a hybrid destroyer and helicopter carrier. Perhaps, the Japs can purchase a couple of Apaches and Super Cobras to put in this ship to spook the Chinese.

Not attack helicopters. They can operate MH-60R Seahawks now - better at carrying heavier Anti-ship and Anti-submarine missiles. They're looking at operating tilt-rotor Ospreys in the near future, and Short-Takeoff-and -Vertical-Landing (STOVL) F-35B Joint-Strike Fighters later, depending on how fast they can amend the laws that prevents them from operating offensive weapons. Aircraft Carriers are considered offensive weapons, while helicopter carriers are considered defensive.

 

Anyway, the helicopters on-board these ships are better used at detecting, tracking and targeting enemy ships and submarines. Ship-launched missiles will take care of destroying them.

Edited June 27, 2014 by camiar

[Bugatti Veyron]

Indeed them Japs are very impressive... Yan bang mga punyemas na yan sa Communist Party of China eh merong pantapat dito,

 

 

na punong-puno ng doze-dozenang ganito,

 

 

at di lang yan, pag naubos na yang mga yan eh nagtratransform sa ganito,

 

 

Yang mga commie a.holes na yan sa Beijing panis lahat yan sa mga apo ni Yamashita... :P

He he he :lol:

[Bugatti Veyron]

Nakakangitngit na nakakagalit itong mga hinayupak na mga intsik but we can only utter this article "It's easier said than done".

 

No choice: Destroy China's future PH military bases now

I wonder if a small but highly trained military unit could sabotage these bases instead of using planes. That way, the Chinese won't know who destroyed the bases. They won't know whom to retaliate against.

[Bugatti Veyron]

On a more serious note, look at the new Japan Maritime Self Defence Force's (JMSDF) Helicopter-carrying "Destroyer".

 

This photo montage shows the newer and bigger Izumo next to its older smaller sister Hyuga, so you can compare their relative sizes. They may be carry helicopters only for now, but in the future, they can carry F-35s.

 

"Destroyer" pa lang yan, ha. Paano na kung gumawa na sila ng tunay na Aircraft Carrier?

 

Nice photos. And to think these ships are for self defense only....

[Bugatti Veyron]

Compare JS Hyuga to USS George Washington. JS Izumo is 35% bigger than Hyuga.

Japan somehow realizes that it cannot rely too much on the US to protect its territorial rights vs China. So it is making a quick adjustment to its military capabilities, especially in protecting its shipping lanes in the South China Sea / West Philippine Sea.

 

The Japanese are fortunate they have the resources and technical know-how to build such large war-ships. Being a first-world nation, they remain the largest stumbling block to the plans of the Chinese. Perhaps, we should try harder than ever to enter into a defense treaty with Japan, South Korea and Vietnam. We will need their assistance if the Americans continue to drag their feet regarding the Chinese threat.

[camiar]

Point taken but if the Chinese bring in their own attack helicopters, you can't defend carriers with Seahawks alone. Now, regarding the F-35, I think the Japanese need to get a super carrier instead of carriers that size. It's too small and narrow for fighter jets.

Attack helicopters are no match for ship-launched surface-to-air missiles, because out there at sea, you have no hills or trees to cover your approach. You'll be splashed before you even get to the ships within the range of your own missiles.

 

I don't know if they'd use attack helicopters to carry anti-ship missiles. These are too big and too heavy for lightweight attack helicopters. To carry big bad ass missiles over long distances to k*ll ships, you need bigger helos like Seahawks. You use attack helicopters for land battles, but for sea battles? maybe if it is a one-way suicide mission.

 

The new Izumo can accommodate 12 (maybe more) F35 fighters with minor modifications to its landing platform. That's more than the entire fighter wing of a small country! You don't need a big carrier to operate STOVL planes.

Edited June 27, 2014 by camiar

[faddict]

Hellfire missiles are good at taking out armored land targets but not at sinking ships. They are simply too small to do the job. Anti-ship missiles and torpedoes are better suited for maritime strike missions than Hellfire missiles.

[Julianda]

I wonder if a small but highly trained military unit could sabotage these bases instead of using planes. That way, the Chinese won't know who destroyed the bases. They won't know whom to retaliate against.

 

 

There are other countries that are also claiming the disputed islands, if it's indeed a 'feasible' scenario, it had been done long before the Chinese could start to build anything there.

[Bugatti Veyron]

There are other countries that are also claiming the disputed islands, if it's indeed a 'feasible' scenario, it had been done long before the Chinese could start to build anything there.

Yeah but if there weren't anything built there to begin with (eg. military facilities) then there wouldn't be anything to sabotage. Now that these facilities are in place, we have clear targets these small military units can target and sabotage.

[heatseeker0714]

Nakakangitngit na nakakagalit itong mga hinayupak na mga intsik but we can only utter this article "It's easier said than done".

 

No choice: Destroy China's future PH military bases now

 

Critical na situation natin vis a vis china but this article is too alarmist... Exag eh... Ikumpara ba naman tayo sa Israel for one...

 

Bakit, meron na bang Nuclear Power na tinira ang Israel?????

 

Even if the entire Israeli Air Force were loaned to us, do you think any sane Philippine leader would push the trigger without any overt casus beli against china? America nga eh, binangga na sa ere ng PLAAF fighter plane nung early 2000s recon plane nila in international airspace, si Bush pa nag-sorry sa mga punyemas...

 

Let's not take all articles out there as gospel truth... Experience ko lang kasi ang bilis makatanda ng mga bagay na hindi naman dapat seryosohin na sineseryoso....

[Julianda]

Yeah but if there weren't anything built there to begin with (eg. military facilities) then there wouldn't be anything to sabotage. Now that these facilities are in place, we have clear targets these small military units can target and sabotage.

 

Assuming lang this highly trained military unit as you said has/have the power to sabotage, then most likely, they also have the power to prevent any invaders in our territory, right? But the point is, there's no such thing as highly trained or super-trained military unit. Pwede pa super-power ammunition and all that. But come to think of it...sana nga merong ganun para matapos na ang anumang gulo.

 

 

 

[camiar]

I'm assuming that you're talking about Chinese ships. Are there Chinese ships with surface to air missiles that have a range of 8 kilometers? If yes, then the Apaches or Super Cobras are in trouble but if these Chinese ships don't have missiles with that range, then the ships are in trouble because Hellfire missiles have a range of 8 kilometers.

Ship-launched short-range anti-aircraft SAMs can go over 20 km.

Long Range SAMs go over 100 nautical miles ( about 200 km).

 

Super Cobras have been known to sink patrol boats. A couple of Apaches can sink a Chinese carrier with Hellfire missiles. I believe China only has one carrier in its arsenal.

If they can come close enough while all of the Chinese carrier crew AND those in the escort ships are asleep. But first these Apaches must reach the carrier, which would maintain at least 200 km distance from the nearest threat,(does the Apache have enough fuel for the round trip flight?). Then they must get closer than 8 km, which is within point blank range of the Chinese'’s short-range missiles, not to mention the long-range ones. Then, you must know exactly where to place your missiles, and you should be carrying a lot of them because just a few cannot sink a ship. Otherwise, your apaches are cooked.

 

I overlooked the vertical take-off landing factor. If that's the case, then yes, F-35s can land in these planes. I was thinking along the lines of an F-16.

F-16 is not a carrier plane. Landing gears are not strong enough.

F-14, F-18, Harriers, and F-35 are designed as carrier-borne fighters.

Edited June 27, 2014 by camiar

[camiar]

Critical na situation natin vis a vis china but this article is too alarmist... Exag eh... Ikumpara ba naman tayo sa Israel for one...

 

Bakit, meron na bang Nuclear Power na tinira ang Israel?????

 

Even if the entire Israeli Air Force were loaned to us, do you think any sane Philippine leader would push the trigger without any overt casus beli against china? America nga eh, binangga na sa ere ng PLAAF fighter plane nung early 2000s recon plane nila in international airspace, si Bush pa nag-sorry sa mga punyemas...

 

Let's not take all articles out there as gospel truth... Experience ko lang kasi ang bilis makatanda ng mga bagay na hindi naman dapat seryosohin na sineseryoso....

We should not make any military action that would make things worse. But we should do something other than talk.

 

China is on a construction spree in the Spratlys. So does Taiwan, Malaysia, and Vietnam. And all we do is watch and complain. No action.

The thing is, with all the construction going on in the disputed islands- why do we allow ourselves to be left behind? We cannot even put a coat of paint on our rusting BRP Sierra Madre. Our airstrip in Kalayaan Island is slowly being reclaimed by the sea. No development at all. When I googled the pictures of fortifications of Vietnam in the Paracels and Spratlys, I feel ashamed. Kaya din naman nating ayusin yung facilities natin dun. Tatanga-tanga lang tayo. Ano bang inaantay natin? Ayusin yun ng mga Kano at Hapon para sa atin? Yung mendicant mentality natin -- "wala tayong pera" syndrome - yan ang magpapabagsak sa atin.

Edited June 27, 2014 by camiar

[camiar]

Assuming lang this highly trained military unit as you said has/have the power to sabotage, then most likely, they also have the power to prevent any invaders in our territory, right? But the point is, there's no such thing as highly trained or super-trained military unit. Pwede pa super-power ammunition and all that. But come to think of it...sana nga merong ganun para matapos na ang anumang gulo.

If I'm not mistaken, during the time of FVR, and GMA, the Philippine Navy has dismantled and blown up markers and unmanned structures that the Chinese put up in KIG.

[Julianda]

Critical na situation natin vis a vis china but this article is too alarmist... Exag eh... Ikumpara ba naman tayo sa Israel for one...

 

Bakit, meron na bang Nuclear Power na tinira ang Israel?????

 

Even if the entire Israeli Air Force were loaned to us, do you think any sane Philippine leader would push the trigger without any overt casus beli against china? America nga eh, binangga na sa ere ng PLAAF fighter plane nung early 2000s recon plane nila in international airspace, si Bush pa nag-sorry sa mga punyemas...

 

Let's not take all articles out there as gospel truth... Experience ko lang kasi ang bilis makatanda ng mga bagay na hindi naman dapat seryosohin na sineseryoso....

Tingin ko lang, hanggat iniisip natin na maliit tayo at walang kakayahan, magpapatuloy ang pangangangailangan natin ng simpatya o tulong mula sa buong mundo kaya asahan mo ang walang radikal na pagkilos. Alam kasi ng China na wala tayong kakayanan na pumalag kaya ganun kalakas ang loob nilang mang-angkin ng isla at karagatan ng Pinas. Kung mapapansin natin bawat bansa na sumusuporta sa atin nag rereact sila by saying "Don't interfere". Hindi ba malinaw yan na yakang yaka nila ang Pinas kung walang mangingialam na ibang bansa? Ang kaso, di lang China ang claiming dito, pati neighboring countries natin. Ang mangyayari ngayon, mapipilitang sumuporta ang mga naturang bansa sa atin kasi tayo ang "direct hit" ng China. Napaka ironic na tayo ang "direct hit" na dapat ang China kasi sila ang nang aangkin at naangkin na ang ilang isla natin ng walang kahirap hirap, In fact, nag celebrate na sila ng 2nd anniversary sa islang nakamkam nila. The article I think is making sense here. Darating ang panahon na magsusunod sunuran na lang ang Pinas pag nagtagumpay sila. Tsk tsk, kawawa naman ang susunod na mga henerasyon pag nagkataon...

[Julianda]

If I'm not mistaken, during the time of FVR, and GMA, the Philippine Navy has dismantled and blown up markers and unmanned structures that the Chinese put up in KIG.

At anong nangyari na sa mga yun kung meron man? Na pulitika na rin? lol Having said that, we cannot avoid but to compare the past and PRESENT administration and that would likely make us feel even more hopeless as far as resolving conflict in the 'disputed islands' is concerned. Tawagin na lang kaya si Ironman. (=

 

 

[MangMags]

I'm sure Philippines will prevail and win the war if it comes to it..... we have Manny Pacquiao!

[heatseeker0714]

If I'm not mistaken, during the time of FVR, and GMA, the Philippine Navy has dismantled and blown up markers and unmanned structures that the Chinese put up in KIG.

 

FVR and Erap pre....

 

Si pandak wala yon, binenta nga tayo non...

[heatseeker0714]

At anong nangyari na sa mga yun kung meron man? Na pulitika na rin? lol Having said that, we cannot avoid but to compare the past and PRESENT administration and that would likely make us feel even more hopeless as far as resolving conflict in the 'disputed islands' is concerned. Tawagin na lang kaya si Ironman. (=

 

For one thing after Mischief Reef eh hindi na nasundan yon during El Tabako's time... Same with Erap... Erap had cojones, he was the one who ordered the BRP Sierra Madre be grounded in ayungin... They knew kasi na papalag tayo non...

 

Compare that with La Klepta with El Tenga behind her.... JMSU with the Viets and them Chicoms... Plus soft loans left and right??? Sa toto lang yung 9 na taon ni gloria kinapon yung AFP....

[camiar]

I revisited the Liaoning. There is no way a Japanese destroyer cum helicopter carrier can go toe to toe with it. The Chinese can take that destroyer out with its fixed wing aircraft aside from the TOR and various ordnance. The best way to engage a carrier is by sinking it via submarine. I was thinking along the lines of a Los Angeles class submarine. However, I'm not sure if the US is willing to sell these hunter-killers to the Japs.

OK. I’m glad you now understand and agree that you don’t use attack helicopters to k*ll ships, let alone an aircraft carrier.

This is what you said in your previous post:

Super Cobras have been known to sink patrol boats. A couple of Apaches can sink a Chinese carrier with Hellfire missiles. I believe China only has one carrier in its arsenal.

Now, you say:

I don't think a Japanese destroyer cum helicopter carrier can take on the Liaoning when it is fully loaded with fighter jets. Like I said, the best way to take out a carrier is by submarine.

It’s amazing how fast you go for 180-degree turn-around. At least we are now on agreement that helicopters will not be used against a well-armed ship.

But a ship like the JS Izumo, outfitted to carry F-35 vertical-landing stealth fighters, will be a good match against Liaoning with its relatively inexperienced crew and pilots.

Take note: The Chinese J-15 carrier-based fighters are not stealth fighters. Their own stealth fighter, the J-20, are not yet available and are not capable of operating on aircraft carriers. So, JS Izumo with F35s and Ospreys on board has some technological advantage to make up for its smaller size - but right now, the Japanese Navy can't operate fixed-wing aircraft on their carriers unless they get their anti-war constitution amended. A legal technicality.

 

Now, a submarine killing an aircraft carrier? Read up first on ASW tactics used by escort Destroyers and Frigates to protect the Carrier. Can you tell me of any instance in history where a submarine ever successfully sunk an Aircraft Carrier? I'm really interested.

 

 

Yup but it is not spatially possible for an F-14 or F-18 to land on that Japanese destroyer.

Of course -- hence the vertical landing F-35s. Get it?

Edited June 28, 2014 by camiar