Guest megalodon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The reasons why we have been losing in international tourneys are the following:1. Lack of preparation 2. Adjustment to FIBA rules since our pros are used to PBA rules 3. Lack of chemistry since after a particular tournament, that national team of pros get disabanded and we all know that this practice of forming an all-pro team has failed us many times Smart-Gilas was formed to address these reasons. Diba sabi mo dapat long-term? Smart-Gilas was built for the long term. Quote Link to comment
CELTS Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 the 3 factors cited are valid reasons. unfortunately i believe it boils down to the manpower requirement. first to be considered is to see if we have the right players to excell in basketball. this will include the height/physique as well as the talent. after having the players then that's the time we consider other factors such as preparation, cohesiveness as well as familiarity with the rules. Quote Link to comment
Guest megalodon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I believe Coach Toroman chose the right personnel for Smart-Gilas. He isn't a FIBA champion coach for nothing. Quote Link to comment
dencio Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 the thing is we have been using fil ams/fil foreigner/fil sham for the past how many fiba asia and even in the PBA.. did we improve our game? did the filipino as a basketball nation mature? yeah use them but as a stop gap measure.... not as a regular program to enhance our standing in asia. And if you look at them they're not as tall as expected. we have players of that size also here... they're not as if they are 7' tall or something.... thats why some filipino are losing interest in the PBA. You develope a sport thru long term program.... and really harnessing the best players.... a perfect example is san sebastian victory over san beda... san beda has an import yet the stag toil very hard to reach their status now.... thats hard work for you not a quick fix by hiring a foreign player to do the job u are suppose to do.... we should learn to respect ourselves first before we expect people to respect us... those fil foreigner are like mercinery after a career in the PBA they are nowhere to be found.. thats why they should give NORMAN BLACK, ALEX COMPTON, honorary award for sticking it out here after their career in PHILIPPINE BASKETBALL. Sandali lang hindi ba ikaw din ang nagsu-suggest na we are 4-5 Fil-foreigners away from competing? Ano ba talaga ang stand mo? To use them or not to use them? Para sa yo, ano ba ang tamang approach? Quote Link to comment
CELTS Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i don't know. call me a pessimist but are you saying that these players we have now are better than the chinese? short of saying if Giles would be the best player of this team, can he be at par talent wise with the Yao and Yi of China? my take here is that while Toroman maybe a good coach, his choice of personel is limited to what is available to him. as such what he has now is the right personnel given the limitations. at the end of the day it still boils down to the players winning the games and executing the battle plan of a great coach. if these guys are overmatched in term of talent, even a good coach can't win it for them. as an example, red is a great coach during his time they dominated the 60's but it is also because they have great players to compliment and execute his game plan. i suppose that should he be alive and coach this day, it will be difficult for him to make a team like the thunder a champion based on the players they have now. Quote Link to comment
dencio Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I believe Coach Toroman chose the right personnel for Smart-Gilas. He isn't a FIBA champion coach for nothing. Dito bro Mega eh magkakasundo tayo. Sa tingin ko ito ang "best and brightest" young players na natin. Quote Link to comment
CELTS Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i don't know. call me a pessimist but are you saying that these players we have now are better than the chinese? short of saying if Giles would be the best player of this team, can he be at par talent wise with the Yao and Yi of China? my take here is that while Toroman maybe a good coach, his choice of personel is limited to what is available to him. as such what he has now is the right personnel given the limitations. at the end of the day it still boils down to the players winning the games and executing the battle plan of a great coach. if these guys are overmatched in term of talent, even a good coach can't win it for them. as an example, red is a great coach during his time they dominated the 60's but it is also because they have great players to compliment and execute his game plan. i suppose that should he be alive and coach this day, it will be difficult for him to make a team like the thunder a champion based on the players they have now. all am saying here is that given that these are the best young prospects we have, how confident are we to say we can beat the best asian teams in 2-3 years time to qualify for the lone olympic slot alloted to asia? Quote Link to comment
hopia_mani_papkorn Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I believe Coach Toroman chose the right personnel for Smart-Gilas. He isn't a FIBA champion coach for nothing. ---Coach Toroman's resume will say it all ... A winner ... who believes in his system ... For taking this job, I already salute him .. What we should do is let us see them play ... If they are still the same "whipping" boys after a year .. Then I say .. Philippine Basketball is done .. forget it .. But if we could see some kind of improvement .. then .. let them go on ... The NCC was a great team .. Dennis Still and Jeff Moore if they stayed here would probably be teaching the younger players how to properly defend the ball .. while Chip Engelland .. would be teaching us some shooting skill .. like what he is doing now for a team in the NBA ... Hector Calma was regarded as one of the great guards in Asia .. Samboy Lim's aerial acrobatics are cheered .. Yves Dignadice's defense was a nightmare for opponents ... Elmer Reyes sidestep was unstoppable ... and Allan Caidic's shooting .. a deadly work of art ... some of the memorable names that the program developed ... Quote Link to comment
Guest megalodon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'm not saying that the players we have now are better than the Chinese. What I'm saying is Coach T chose the best amateur talents we have that are available. Let's just wait and see what they can do coz it seems to me you're judging them yet they haven't competed in a tournament yet for us to gauge if they're really lemons. This is the same team that clobbered Powerade by 30 plus points under amateur rules. Let's just wait and see when they play in a tournament like the Asian Games and judge them from there. Their PBA sojourn doesn't really count since it is played under pro rules while Smart-Gilas is trained for FIBA rules. By the way, I like your nick since fave team ko yan. Hehe. Quote Link to comment
peithe Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'm not saying that the players we have now are better than the Chinese. What I'm saying is Coach T chose the best amateur talents we have that are available. Let's just wait and see what they can do coz it seems to me you're judging them yet they haven't competed in a tournament yet for us to gauge if they're really lemons. This is the same team that clobbered Powerade by 30 plus points under amateur rules. Let's just wait and see when they play in a tournament like the Asian Games and judge them from there. Their PBA sojourn doesn't really count since it is played under pro rules while Smart-Gilas is trained for FIBA rules. By the way, I like your nick since fave team ko yan. Hehe. "words of wisdom" coming from a guy that thinks the same way before ... hindi ba ikaw na rin ang nagsabi dapat PBA players ang ipadala sa International tourneys. Bakit bumaliktad ka ata? Dahil ba natalo nila ang Powerade team? Quote Link to comment
Guest megalodon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 all am saying here is that given that these are the best young prospects we have, how confident are we to say we can beat the best asian teams in 2-3 years time to qualify for the lone olympic slot alloted to asia?Let's just wait for the next major tournament. I think it will be the Asian Games. I think the boys have adapted well to Coach T's system. Quote Link to comment
CELTS Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Let's just wait for the next major tournament. I think it will be the Asian Games. I think the boys have adapted well to Coach T's system.guess that is fair enough ... Quote Link to comment
catsumhoto Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Sandali lang hindi ba ikaw din ang nagsu-suggest na we are 4-5 Fil-foreigners away from competing? Ano ba talaga ang stand mo? To use them or not to use them? Para sa yo, ano ba ang tamang approach?yap im the one who mentioned n 4- 5 fil foreigner... kasi yon naman ang direction natin... we don't have a plan in the long term... if we really want to win in this tournament we better look a hiring n 4-5 fil am to beef up the line up... but if we really want to develope the sports and the talent we have stick with the line up...question is what is the purpose/goal of MVP and eala... if its to win this lineup won't be able to cut it... if they want to really win they should go out and scout for fil foreigner and add it to their existing lineup... but for me their is no short cut to winning might as well develope a very very long program and forget 2012 olympics.... Quote Link to comment
Guest megalodon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 ---Coach Toroman's resume will say it all ... A winner ... who believes in his system ... For taking this job, I already salute him .. What we should do is let us see them play ... If they are still the same "whipping" boys after a year .. Then I say .. Philippine Basketball is done .. forget it .. But if we could see some kind of improvement .. then .. let them go on ... The NCC was a great team .. Dennis Still and Jeff Moore if they stayed here would probably be teaching the younger players how to properly defend the ball .. while Chip Engelland .. would be teaching us some shooting skill .. like what he is doing now for a team in the NBA ... Hector Calma was regarded as one of the great guards in Asia .. Samboy Lim's aerial acrobatics are cheered .. Yves Dignadice's defense was a nightmare for opponents ... Elmer Reyes sidestep was unstoppable ... and Allan Caidic's shooting .. a deadly work of art ... some of the memorable names that the program developed ... The SMB team of the mid-80's to the early 90's were the team to beat coz of the players you mentioned. These guys put the concept of team first and foremost in the way they played the game that's why SMB was really difficult to beat in era that I mentioned. I guess when you're used to international play, it gets easier to adjust in the pro game. Look at Spain, I think half their national team have adapted well in the NBA since they have a strong grasp of how team basketball should be played. The Gasols, Rudy Fernandez, Calderon, Sergio Rodriguez are integral parts of their respective NBA teams coz they are really effective team mates having been used to playing as a unit with the Spanish national team. Selflessness....this is what made the NCC team, the Spanish team, the recent Team USA successful and I hope Smart-Gilas follows in thier footsteps. Quote Link to comment
catsumhoto Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 ok how many of you think and feel that this team will be ready by the year 2011 for the asian qualifying? That giles will be able to match up with yao ming.... Japeth and co. will be able to hold down YI and company? Quote Link to comment
Guest megalodon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 ok how many of you think and feel that this team will be ready by the year 2011 for the asian qualifying? That giles will be able to match up with yao ming.... Japeth and co. will be able to hold down YI and company?This is my assessment. If we continue sending this team to tough international tourneys, I can see this team as one of the Top 5 contenders in FIBA-Asia 2011. Quote Link to comment
dencio Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 ^^ I share the same optimism. Given enough preparation, more tournament play and dedication from the players and coaches, i don't see why we can't contend. There are no sure things in sport. Ika nga, bilog ang bola. Ang importante we are in position to contend. Who knows by 2011, Yao may beg off from the national team already. Quote Link to comment
kanski Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 top 5 in asia is doable. getting the top slot- nah. btw mega, thanks for helping get the piston's thread closed dude. Quote Link to comment
Guest megalodon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 top 5 in asia is doable. getting the top slot- nah. btw mega, thanks for helping get the piston's thread closed dude.My apologies. It wasn't my intention. I hope they open the NBA threads soon. With regards to getting the top slot in Asia in 2011, it's possible if we keep sending the boys to tournaments like the tournament in the article I posted earlier. I mean Coach T made a bunch of clumsy Iranians champions in a 3-year span. I don't see any reason why he couldn't do it to us considering that we are more talented in basketball than Iran. Quote Link to comment
kanski Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 no problem. what's done is done. not too sure on us being more talented in bball than, say, iran though. Quote Link to comment
Guest megalodon Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 no problem. what's done is done. not too sure on us being more talented in bball than, say, iran though.I mean individually speaking. Without Haddadi, we could have beaten Iran. Haddadi was just too tall and well I can say talented enough. I mean Yi had a hard time against him and to think that Yi is a starter for the Nets and Haddadi is just a benchwarmer for the Griz. Quote Link to comment
CELTS Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 unfortunately though we have to contend with the Yi's and the Haddadi's as well as the others during international play. these guys are part of their national team unless they decide not to play or are removed. at the end of the day, we got to be realistic about our goals. the olympic slot is out of the picture i guess in 3 years time. what is more doable is a final 4 appearance. should we able to do that and still maintain the core and program of this team them probably time will come that we would be a fixture in the FIBA finals eventually. Remember, the guys we have now are young while the main man of China and Iran would be in their 30's by then and most likely will have to be replaced. by then, it boils down to how we're able develop these young guys and if their development will be at least at par if not surpass the development of our asian counterparts. Quote Link to comment
Guest megalodon Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) unfortunately though we have to contend with the Yi's and the Haddadi's as well as the others during international play. these guys are part of their national team unless they decide not to play or are removed. at the end of the day, we got to be realistic about our goals. the olympic slot is out of the picture i guess in 3 years time. what is more doable is a final 4 appearance. should we able to do that and still maintain the core and program of this team them probably time will come that we would be a fixture in the FIBA finals eventually. Remember, the guys we have now are young while the main man of China and Iran would be in their 30's by then and most likely will have to be replaced. by then, it boils down to how we're able develop these young guys and if their development will be at least at par if not surpass the development of our asian counterparts.You're echoing the exact sentiments of SBP. In my opinion, this team will be in it for the long haul. I mean even after the Gilas players enter the PBA, Smart-Gilas or whatever its name will be in the future will still be our national team. If you noticed the European national teams, you see the same players year in and year out. I think SBP has been enlightened is is bound to follow suit. Edited October 30, 2009 by megalodon Quote Link to comment
catsumhoto Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 well countries that have a a well entrench program has a team a and team b, take the case of china during the tokoshima joust... they send their team b to compete... as for us we are still groping for the final lineup of our national team considering that we have a ton of basketball players toiling around in many leagues around the country.. we should consider expanding the pool... well even collegiate team has a team b in the waiting just in case players got injured or for any unexplainable event happened... as for their participation in the pba. finally their participation is being downgraded as mere tune up games.... well winnie is really pisst now.... baka manuntok ng commissioner yan... imagine getting ban for nothing.... well the PBA is only a reflection of how our sports officials run their program.. changing the rule right in the middle of the race.... asto toroman well he is a good coach and the iranian team is a better team imagine after he left the team they were able o duplicate their feat with a new coach... thus goes to show that 0% success lies also in the players you are going to send to any tournament... as for top five in asia by 2011, well let see the last time we competed it was iran, china, jordan, lebanon, taiwan, qatar, korea that finished ahead of us. take your pick then.. Quote Link to comment
Guest megalodon Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) ^^If you ask me, I still like our chances with Coach T as the guiding light. We had a Team A and Team B recently. Powerade and Smart-Gilas. Of course Team A was Powerade. Iran was successful recently coz Coach T already laid down the foundation. That foundation being the players of Iran playing European-style basketball. All the next coach had to do was continue it since the playing style taught by Coach T has already been ingrained in the Iranian players. Edited October 30, 2009 by megalodon Quote Link to comment
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