Build A Model Body!

[rockybrawler]

@ Jacques

Sir, I read conflicting reports about doing cardio.

1. in mens' health, mens fitness magazine, it say it's bad to do cardio on an empty stomach(i.e. first thing when you wake up)because "it will use lean muscle tissue to fuel the workout".

 

2. In muscle mag, it says the best time to do cardio is on an empty stomach (when you wake up) because "it will burn the fat from the previous day".

 

I currently do no 1 but i only have 1/4 cup of oatmeal lang.

 

What's your opinion? Thanks in advance.

[Jacques]

@ Jacques

Sir, I read conflicting reports about doing cardio.

1. in mens' health, mens fitness magazine, it say it's bad to do cardio on an empty stomach(i.e. first thing when you wake up)because "it will use lean muscle tissue to fuel the workout".

 

2. In muscle mag, it says the best time to do cardio is on an empty stomach (when you wake up) because "it will burn the fat from the previous day".

 

I currently do no 1 but i only have 1/4 cup of oatmeal lang.

 

What's your opinion? Thanks in advance.

 

Both statements are actually true. For one, you must understand the our body needs fuel to "burn" whenever we engage in activities such as cardio-vascular excercises. When doing cardio on an empty stomach (usually early morning), the body mainly will rely on stored fuels such as bodyfat and sometimes even stored amino acids in our muscles. In a thread somewhere, I have mentioned that it is inevitable to sacrifice a bit of musclemass while on calorie restricted diets. That's why one strategy we employ is to up our protein intake while dieting to ensure that we replace the aminos being burned in our muscles.

 

Here's what you do. Guage yourself. If you're naturally lean I'd say forego cardio because it'll hinder your progress. But if you really have the goal of leaning out, by all means do cardio on an empty stomach and drink a protein/amino supplement immediately afterwards. The trick here is to actually limit carb intake to promote body fat as fuel. But witht the assumption that the body would have the tendency to "cannibalize" your own muscle for energy, just ensure you're taking more protein to compensate for this. This is why I tend to consume more protein while dieting as compared to the off season training.

 

Hope this helps.

[Jacques]

I need tips how to build my muscles, I'm 5'10 and on the lean side, maski na ano kainin ko i dont gain weight that much, ganito na body type ko maski na noong bata pa ako..any tips will be greatly appreciated..

 

You might want to back read a bit. If you're having a hard time gaining weight, forego cardio excercises. If you play basketball, abstain from it. And gradually increase your calorie intake. Take 6 to 8 meals spread across the day with 2 to 3 hour intervals. Shoot for 3500 to 5000 calories a day. Employ compound excersises (squats, deadlifts, military presses, bench press etc) on your workout regimen. Sleep 8 to 10 hours a day. Be consistent. If these wont work, maybe 'juice" will, but we don't recomend that.

[Larry]

what's a good substitute for pull ups? and rows?

[Jacques]

what's a good substitute for pull ups? and rows?

 

Why would you substitute these excercise? This will be your bread and butter for back development. I can't think of other excercises than those mentioned above (except for deadlifts and chin ups) to develop a muscualr foundation for your back. You may try machines but I doubt you'd get outstanding results.

[Larry]

Why would you substitute these excercise?

 

work out at home

 

no pull up bar

 

that's why

[THUG]

@ Jacques

Sir, I read conflicting reports about doing cardio.

1. in mens' health, mens fitness magazine, it say it's bad to do cardio on an empty stomach(i.e. first thing when you wake up)because "it will use lean muscle tissue to fuel the workout".

 

2. In muscle mag, it says the best time to do cardio is on an empty stomach (when you wake up) because "it will burn the fat from the previous day".

 

I currently do no 1 but i only have 1/4 cup of oatmeal lang.

 

What's your opinion? Thanks in advance.

 

 

i do 2.. best time to do long slow cardio (around 1 hour continuous) is on empty stomach (as long as you eat the night before).. then refuel immediately afterwards.. make sure you eat within 15 mins after cardio .. its the refueling that matters most..

 

mine is not truly empty though.. i drink lots of water with fiber supplement in the morning before the run..

 

:hypocritesmiley:

Edited March 23, 2007 by THUG

[Jacques]

work out at home

 

no pull up bar

 

that's why

 

If you have a barbell, pile up the plates and you can start rowing, and doing deadlifts. Better yet, get a gym membership.

[Olympus]

Jacques

Sir, I read conflicting reports about doing cardio.

1. in mens' health, mens fitness magazine, it say it's bad to do cardio on an empty stomach(i.e. first thing when you wake up)because "it will use lean muscle tissue to fuel the workout".

 

2. In muscle mag, it says the best time to do cardio is on an empty stomach (when you wake up) because "it will burn the fat from the previous day".

 

I currently do no 1 but i only have 1/4 cup of oatmeal lang.

 

What's your opinion? Thanks in advance.

 

let me quote one of my favorite coahes and colleagues that I totally respect Alwyn Cosgrove on this statement

 

FASTED CARDIO

 

Are you f--king kidding me? Seriously, are you f--king kidding me? Why are we even talking about this?

 

Let's take two twins, both 200lbs, both doing the same training program, taking the same supplements, and following the same nutrition plan in the hopes of getting lean.

 

One difference, though: one of them eats 2 eggs and does 30 minutes of cardio three days per week. The other does 30 minutes of cardio, three days per week and THEN eats 2 eggs.

 

So what's the magical difference in terms of fat loss after six months? Drum roll please...

 

I'll tell you — no f-king difference.

 

However, whenever you bring up this question we get a ton of responses saying, "This is exactly the information I needed!". Oh f--k off. The reason you are still fat is because you couldn't decide to do cardio on an empty stomach or not?

 

30 minutes of steady state cardio will burn about 300 calories. Three times per week – 900 calories. Add that up for 26 weeks and we get a whopping: 23,400 calories.

 

Or 6.6 lbs of fat.

 

In six months.

 

If doing it fasted, burned 30% more (which it doesn't), you're looking at another 2lbs of fat in that same six month period.

 

Or an additional 0.07 pounds per week.

 

And for those of you who say – I do fasted cardio but I have a small scoop of protein first, then you're NOT DOING IT FASTED THEN, ARE YOU?

 

Fat people finish marathons all the time. Aerobic training doesn't do a hell of a lot for real world fat loss. Even if you're hungry

 

 

 

If you have a barbell, pile up the plates and you can start rowing, and doing deadlifts. Better yet, get a gym membership.

 

 

I agree :cool:

[Larry]

If you have a barbell, pile up the plates and you can start rowing, and doing deadlifts. Better yet, get a gym membership.

 

thanks

[Jacques]

let me quote one of my favorite coahes and colleagues that I totally respect Alwyn Cosgrove on this statement

 

FASTED CARDIO

 

Are you f--king kidding me? Seriously, are you f--king kidding me? Why are we even talking about this?

 

Let's take two twins, both 200lbs, both doing the same training program, taking the same supplements, and following the same nutrition plan in the hopes of getting lean.

 

One difference, though: one of them eats 2 eggs and does 30 minutes of cardio three days per week. The other does 30 minutes of cardio, three days per week and THEN eats 2 eggs.

 

So what's the magical difference in terms of fat loss after six months? Drum roll please...

 

I'll tell you — no f-king difference.

 

However, whenever you bring up this question we get a ton of responses saying, "This is exactly the information I needed!". Oh f--k off. The reason you are still fat is because you couldn't decide to do cardio on an empty stomach or not?

 

30 minutes of steady state cardio will burn about 300 calories. Three times per week – 900 calories. Add that up for 26 weeks and we get a whopping: 23,400 calories.

 

Or 6.6 lbs of fat.

 

In six months.

 

If doing it fasted, burned 30% more (which it doesn't), you're looking at another 2lbs of fat in that same six month period.

 

Or an additional 0.07 pounds per week.

 

And for those of you who say – I do fasted cardio but I have a small scoop of protein first, then you're NOT DOING IT FASTED THEN, ARE YOU?

 

Fat people finish marathons all the time. Aerobic training doesn't do a hell of a lot for real world fat loss. Even if you're hungry

I agree :cool:

 

You stated your point in a nice logical presentation Mr. Olympus. But let me share my feedback on your statements. First, I don't recall anyone mentioning that you'd burn more calories when doing cardio on an empty stomach. The idea here was by doing so, you tap energy from stored fuels in your body from the form of fats or amino acids. Next, the main issue is that will this approach result into canibalizing muscle and not fat loss. Thus, what we are talking about here are "strategies" on how to employ cardio while minimizing the risk of amino canibalization/muscle catabolism in the body. I'm not even sure if you understood what we are talking about. Nevertheless, I doubt that you'd even consider what have been said because this is not the first time we have argued on what works and what doesn't. If you don't welcome this ideas and think it's a bunch of bull, by all means stick with what you believe in. But for some people like me who could really attest to the things I've tried and preach, please give us the respect. I also hope you'd mind the way you speak out. I respect you and know that you've also dedicated yourself to fitness for some time to release bold statements. There's nothing wrong to refute and challenge the opinions of others. Please do it in an educated manner. Peace bro.

[enkateam]

You stated your point in a nice logical presentation Mr. Olympus. But let me share my feedback on your statements. First, I don't recall anyone mentioning that you'd burn more calories when doing cardio on an empty stomach. The idea here was by doing so, you tap energy from stored fuels in your body from the form of fats or amino acids. Next, the main issue is that will this approach result into canibalizing muscle and not fat loss. Thus, what we are talking about here are "strategies" on how to employ cardio while minimizing the risk of amino canibalization/muscle catabolism in the body. I'm not even sure if you understood what we are talking about. Nevertheless, I doubt that you'd even consider what have been said because this is not the first time we have argued on what works and what doesn't. If you don't welcome this ideas and think it's a bunch of bull, by all means stick with what you believe in. But for some people like me who could really attest to the things I've tried and preach, please give us the respect. I also hope you'd mind the way you speak out. I respect you and know that you've also dedicated yourself to fitness for some time to release bold statements. There's nothing wrong to refute and challenge the opinions of others. Please do it in an educated manner. Peace bro.

 

and to anyone who wants to refute anything...please do so with clinical evidence, because without it, it's just another guy talking out of his ass...

 

but to be fair for anyone who believes in fasted cardio or nonfasted cardio. This debate will never be resolved because both sides have valid points. So it's really up to the person to find out how their body responds to a certain cardio method.

[THUG]

You stated your point in a nice logical presentation Mr. Olympus. But let me share my feedback on your statements. First, I don't recall anyone mentioning that you'd burn more calories when doing cardio on an empty stomach. The idea here was by doing so, you tap energy from stored fuels in your body from the form of fats or amino acids. Next, the main issue is that will this approach result into canibalizing muscle and not fat loss. Thus, what we are talking about here are "strategies" on how to employ cardio while minimizing the risk of amino canibalization/muscle catabolism in the body. I'm not even sure if you understood what we are talking about. Nevertheless, I doubt that you'd even consider what have been said because this is not the first time we have argued on what works and what doesn't. If you don't welcome this ideas and think it's a bunch of bull, by all means stick with what you believe in. But for some people like me who could really attest to the things I've tried and preach, please give us the respect. I also hope you'd mind the way you speak out. I respect you and know that you've also dedicated yourself to fitness for some time to release bold statements. There's nothing wrong to refute and challenge the opinions of others. Please do it in an educated manner. Peace bro.

 

agree..this has been discussed time and again..that quote from someone does not really state whether the calories burned is from stored body fat or from the food we eat.. it just states, calories burned from empty stomach = calories burned from non-empty stomach .. does not make any sense for me..

 

yes the calorie expenditure will be the same, but we what we are trying to determine her is how to tap on using the STORED FAT, and not for the body to cannibalize the muscles.. calories can be from fat, or carbs.. from food we eat or from what are stored in our body.. so these are all different..

 

---------

 

i guess as long as you don't lose more than 2 lbs per week, with regular weight training, and protein intake your body will not cannibalize your muscles..

[Olympus]

If fat loss is the goal, then there are two things we want to achieve:

1. Higher metabolism

2. maintaining lean muscle mass

 

any method of strength training which helps you increase your VO2 max ( read: ability to use oxygen more effecienty) also increases your metabolism.

 

Further, we also know that the more muscle mass you have, the better your chances of fighting off the unwanted fat.

 

Now we all know that starving yourself fo a long tim onl slows down your metabolism, so basic fastin will not really help in burning fat... there is such a thing called intermittent fasting, but i do not know much about it.

 

 

So again, I do not think that working out on an empty stomach is a good idea....

[THUG]

Now we all know that starving yourself fo a long tim onl slows down your metabolism, so basic fastin will not really help in burning fat... there is such a thing called intermittent fasting, but i do not know much about it.

So again, I do not think that working out on an empty stomach is a good idea....

 

nobody mentioned starving or fasting.. an empty stomach does not mean you are starving or fasting..you still have body fat and stored glycogen to use..

 

this is why its important to eat the night before, then refuel immediately after the cardio to replace lost glycogen in the muscles..

[Olympus]

this is why its important to eat the night before, then refuel immediately after the cardio to replace lost glycogen in the muscles..

 

By the time you wake up, your body is already in a fasted state since it already digested all the food taken the nigh before....Therefore, it would be much better if you al least had a light snack before working out.

[THUG]

By the time you wake up, your body is already in a fasted state since it already digested all the food taken the nigh before....Therefore, it would be much better if you al least had a light snack before working out.

 

nope.. its what you eat the night before (note: carbo loading the night before a marathon) that your body uses on your early morning cardio.. its the carbs that gets stored on your muscles in the form of glycogen.

 

the usefulness as fuel source of the food that you eat the just before cardio will depend on how easily digestible that food is..

 

but then if you take any carbs just before or during your cardio , your body will not learn how to use body fat as energy source and will always rely on the carbs you just ingested.. this is why, although carb supplement like powergels are useful for performance, it will not train your body to use body fat as fuel..

Edited March 23, 2007 by THUG

[Jacques]

To arrive at the number 100, you can add 50 and 50, multiply 10 by 10, subtract 150 by 50 or devide 1000 by 10. As you can see ,even if we have a common goal there are many ways to arrive at it. Some of us will take a more complicated path well some will discover short cuts. Everybody is entitled to what he/she wants to believe in. This thread must be a sharing on each person's approach and not a debate on who has the right approach or not. I never believed at a generic way to build muscle or lose fat for everyone. We all react differently. In as much as I have shared my opinions, I'm sure it won't work for everyone.

[Olympus]

nope.. its what you eat the night before (note: carbo loading the night before a marathon) that your body uses on your early morning cardio.. its the carbs that gets stored on your muscles in the form of glycogen.

 

the usefulness as fuel source of the food that you eat the just before cardio will depend on how easily digestible that food is..

 

but then if you take any carbs just before or during your cardio , your body will not learn how to use body fat as energy source and will always rely on the carbs you just ingested.. this is why, although carb supplement like powergels are useful for performance, it will not train your body to use body fat as fuel..

 

 

Do we have to go through all this mumbo jumbo again?????

 

Please stop using marathon unners as your basis of comparison again since we all know that they are good in LSD cardio but that's all they are good for....

 

If you wanna be a marathong runner or triathlete, then more power to you... The majority here just be stronger, dunk a basketball, have a powerful spike, punch/kick stronger o simply look good.

[THUG]

Do we have to go through all this mumbo jumbo again?????

 

Please stop using marathon unners as your basis of comparison again since we all know that they are good in LSD cardio but that's all they are good for....

 

If you wanna be a marathong runner or triathlete, then more power to you... The majority here just be stronger, dunk a basketball, have a powerful spike, punch/kick stronger o simply look good.

 

well the topic started on a question if its better to do cardio (to burn body fat) on a full or empty stomach.. naturally we will discuss here cardio related sports..

 

i guess each of us here have varied backgrounds. Some questions are better answered by the guys who have actually been there and done that.

Edited March 23, 2007 by THUG

[Olympus]

well the topic started on a question if its better to do cardio (to burn body fat) on a full or empty stomach.. naturally we will discuss here cardio related sports..

 

i guess each of us here have varied backgrounds. Some questions are better answered by the guys who have actually been there and done that.

 

Again, it is pointless to use a marathon runner as a basis of comparison since we all know that ( no pun intended) marathon runners aren't exactly aesthetically pleasing

 

..... Now abou the discussion, there are several factors we have to discuss...

Cortisol production, BMR, VO2 max, etc... we can go on and on.....

 

The bottom line is this..... the average reader here who wants to shed of the fat also wants to be lean and have a decent amount of muscle spared and not look sickly....

 

And basing it from pesonal experience, crashin weight while on an empty stomach is not really the best idea since it leaves you weak and for those who are after aestheics, looking flat.

[Olympus]

some articles validating why IT IS BAD to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach:

 

http://www.musclebomb.com/cardio_empty_stomach.html

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?Weight-Loss-Myth...t&id=391028

 

http://lifegetinit.fitdv.com/new/articles/...le.html?artid=2

 

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/randy7.htm

[massmonster]

Here's my take on the matter. Those who usually do cardio in an empty stomach are bodybuilders who could afford to do so because they have freaky amounts of muscle that even losing some of it would not really make any difference in size. I don't think that it would be applied to the normal people because it's boring to do so. Peace.

[Jacques]

Here's my take on the matter. Those who usually do cardio in an empty stomach are bodybuilders who could afford to do so because they have freaky amounts of muscle that even losing some of it would not really make any difference in size. I don't think that it would be applied to the normal people because it's boring to do so. Peace.

 

My thoughts exactly. Not hat I have freaky amounts of muscle on me but I do believe that I have an outstanding muscular base to start with. Thus, sacrificing a little bit of muscle would actually be aesthetically pleasing as long as I can drop my bodyfat levels.

[Jacques]

some articles validating why IT IS BAD to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach:

 

http://www.musclebomb.com/cardio_empty_stomach.html

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?Weight-Loss-Myth...t&id=391028

 

http://lifegetinit.fitdv.com/new/articles/...le.html?artid=2

 

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/randy7.htm

 

If I can find articles that would explain the benefits of doing cardio first thing in the morning, wouldn't it validate some of our claims? Now who's right and who's wrong? However, I wont go to that extent and try to refute what you believe in. You have probably seen results with your approach and I congratulate you for that. All of these articles are only theories and not accepted laws. As I have mentioned earlier, it is up to the individual which road he/she chooses to take.