What Fuel Do You Use For Your Vehicle?

[bengbangerz]

ok lang na na introduce ang e10, ang problema parang sapilitan kse wala ka ng ibang option sa unleaded variant.

napansin ata nila na walang pumapansin sa e10 sa mga gasolinahan. kung wala naman talaga problema ang e10 sa makina...eh di sana pati mga manufacturers irerecomend nila ang paggamit nito. ang problema, pati sila ayaw nila ipagamit sa mga sasakyan na hindi ethanol capable.

 

aandar yung sasakyan, pero nasisira naman.

parang pagyoyosi, sa ngayon di mo pa ramadam yung ginagawa nya sa katawan, in the end may sinisira palang laman.

[S14]

i agree i would rather spend the extra cost of fuel rather than risk damaging my engine whopuld should still servre for years to come. not evryone here can afford new cars that can run on ethanol so govt should also think about it. if they wanna clean up our environment huliin mua nila ang mga jeeps and buses who has plenty of smoke belching

[X3ME15]

E-10 is a no go for the majority on my standpoint regardless its included in the clean air act.. too many complications on the regulation and the opinion of the masses do count considering they're the one that gonna use it.. regardless of sales, it can't be a base point of how it works in your engine anyway so it's no bearing for the performance of the product whatsoever

 

just my 2 cents on the matter

Edited July 24, 2009 by X3ME15

[phidze]

It's seems I'm a lone crusader dito. haha

 

Sir X3ME15,

Clarification lang po, I'm not representing the Big 3 (di pa po ako ganun ka bigtime) :hypocritesmiley: , I'm just an ordinary guy working as product analyst in one of the Big 3, I cannot even speak for our company,because we have our own spokesperson. I speak for what I learned and known, so that fellow MTC members will be properly inform. :mtc:

 

Not only in Germany,but also some part of Europe encountered problems not because of E-10, because they add other bio-gradable,renewable substance beside ethanol. They have themselves to be blame.

 

Sir Bengbangerz,

All car manufacturer right now confirmed their units are E-10 compatible. Of course, expedition,focus and escape lang ang pwede sa E-10, because they are gasoline feed. while their other variant gawa nang Ford dito eh diesel feed naman.

 

Ethanol is an alcohol-based, Check it for yourself, put an litmus paper on E-10 and check the PH kung acidic nga, don't listen to the horses mouth, see it for yourself. WYSIWYG.

 

Ethanol is an alternative fuel produced by fermenting and distilling starch crops (mostly sugar cane, corn, cassava), as of meantime all 95% of our ethanol needs are from Brazil, it's nothing to do with our food productions.

 

 

Technically speaking E-10 and pure petrol unleaded are characteristically identical, they have same density, vapor pressure, distillation, aromatics, benzene, even octane rating, kung baga "same person with different shirt". Plus, it help us to reduce dependency on imported oil,which is manipulated by the middle east. And of course, its renewable and bio-gradable that help reduce toxic and greenhouse emission.

[orthodoc]

AFAIK there are no more petrol station with unleaded non-ethanol. Even the small players are now selling unleaded ethanol blended only and premium unleaded products.

By year 2011, the Biofuels Act will mandate a minimum of ten percent (10%) blend of bioethanol by volume into all gasoline fuel distributed and sold by each and every oil company in the country.

[ricoyan]

Technically speaking E-10 and pure petrol unleaded are characteristically identical, they have same density, vapor pressure, distillation, aromatics, benzene, even octane rating, kung baga "same person with different shirt".

 

NOT TRUE, ethanol has less energy density, about 85% compared to gasoline. Kaya expect lower mileage when you use E10 fuel.

 

That's scientifically backed kaya you can't argue about this TRUTH.

[Guest megalodon]

Caltex Gold or Petron XCS

[bengbangerz]

Sir Bengbangerz,

All car manufacturer right now confirmed their units are E-10 compatible. Of course, expedition,focus and escape lang ang pwede sa E-10, because they are gasoline feed. while their other variant gawa nang Ford dito eh diesel feed naman.

 

Ethanol is an alcohol-based, Check it for yourself, put an litmus paper on E-10 and check the PH kung acidic nga, don't listen to the horses mouth, see it for yourself. WYSIWYG.

 

 

oh yes i dont listen to horses mouth for sure. :thumbsdownsmiley:

 

kse yung service adviser mismo ng ford ang nagsabe sken na wag lagyan ang ford vheicle ko ng e10 since hindi sya e10 capable. :upside: kse naglabas naman ang ford ng list ng vehicles nila na pwede sa e10 and older models are not included.

 

wala naman issue dapat sa e10 kung maganda talaga ito eh...and sobrang ambaba ng mileage ko nung nag kakarga ako ng e10 accidentaly. yung shell kse di man lang gumawa ng public announce na e10 na pala lahat ng variants. kainis. :thumbsdownsmiley:

[bengbangerz]

Technically speaking E-10 and pure petrol unleaded are characteristically identical, they have same density, vapor pressure, distillation, aromatics, benzene, even octane rating, kung baga "same person with different shirt". Plus, it help us to reduce dependency on imported oil,which is manipulated by the middle east. And of course, its renewable and bio-gradable that help reduce toxic and greenhouse emission.

 

 

hmmm kung talagang serious ang govt sa pag reduce ng dependency sa imported oil maraming paraan para bawasan to. una yung mga powerplants dapat hindi na oil dependent. meron naman natural o yung CNG. mas maganda pa nga na CNG powered ang mga taxi kesa sa LPG. ang problema wala naman malinaw na project ang govt about sa natural gas naten na tayo ata ang isa sa mga pinakamaraming reserve sa buong mundo.

 

in short may halong pulitika at personal interest ang lahat. yung ethanol govt project kse ang pagtatanim ng halaman na pagkukunan nyan, and mostly na nakakakuha ng loan and govt support...syempre yung mga malalakas. di yan galing bibig ng kabayo ha..galing yan sa kamag anak kong nag ayang iconvert ang agricultural farm namen para tanman nung halaman na di ko maalala ang pangalan.

[phidze]

Sir orthodoc,

Thanks po for the correction, it's The Philippines Biofuels Act,approved last november 2005, that mandate (E5 after 2years, E10 after 4 years), I'm not really into legal matters..

 

Sir ricoyan,

You are barking on the wrong tree, E10 is not purely Ethanol (so far no cars have ever run on ethanol alone),E10 is compose of unleaded gasoline plus ethanol (10%). It is a specially formulated fuel that has ethanol as one of its components that exceeds the national fuel quality standards and meets all national vapor pressure requirements.

 

Energy density is a vast and complex topic, what do you mean by 85% compared to gasoline? be specific and what measurement and unit are used? so that I can answer it properly. Ethanol and unleaded gasoline are components of E10. "you can compare 2 different cars, but you cannot compare 2 different components of a car, it's likely you are comparing an engine to a transmission?".

 

Scientifically backed? by whom? baka sa Recto lang yan.

 

To those who hate E10 to the bone :evil: , they prefer " XCS and Gold" because it's ethanol free and untarnished petroleum product. I say it's only psychological effect, here is the revelation, check the XCS ads in major newspapers. It's said " get (the) unrelenting power in you drive. Go petron XCS with 95? octane rating." but at it's lower small print, it's said" powered by premium ORGANIC combustion enhancers...." do organic,renewable and biogradable are synonymous? As for "Gold" with Techron cleaning power,eh ano yun component of nang Techron ? :D . Oil companies do a lot of strategies to outwit and outdone each other, but they are singing the same tune.

 

until next time... nasa SPA kasi ako right now, it's my turn na..haha

[ricoyan]

Sir ricoyan,

You are barking on the wrong tree, E10 is not purely Ethanol (so far no cars have ever run on ethanol alone),E10 is compose of unleaded gasoline plus ethanol (10%). It is a specially formulated fuel that has ethanol as one of its components that exceeds the national fuel quality standards and meets all national vapor pressure requirements.

 

Energy density is a vast and complex topic, what do you mean by 85% compared to gasoline? be specific and what measurement and unit are used? so that I can answer it properly. Ethanol and unleaded gasoline are components of E10. "you can compare 2 different cars, but you cannot compare 2 different components of a car, it's likely you are comparing an engine to a transmission?".

 

Scientifically backed? by whom? baka sa Recto lang yan.

 

BY THE US DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, Annual Energy Outlook Report 2007, Washington, DC:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/analysispaper/biomass.html

 

Energy Content and Fuel Volume

 

On a volumetric basis, ethanol and biodiesel have lower energy contents than do gasoline and distillate fuel oil, respectively. The lower energy content of ethanol and biodiesel generally results in a commensurate reduction in miles per gallon when they are used in engines designed to run on gasoline or diesel. Small-percentage blends of ethanol and biodiesel (E10, B2, and B5) result in smaller losses of fuel economy than do biofuel-rich blends (E85 and B20).

 

This Annual Energy Report is sent to the White House every year for reference. You can e-mail the US Secretary of Energy to dispute the facts, before Obama gets to read it too.

 

Personally, I'm one of the product analyst of the Big 3 here in the Philippines. So probably alam ko yun sinasabi ko

Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about. You are probably one of those loud, know-it-all employees in your company.

Edited July 25, 2009 by ricoyan

[S14]

have try the ethanol based fuel on my honda jazz and although its cheaper than regular unleaded it consumes more so worthless padin ang ethanol fuel plus some more walang hatak dapat tangalin mismo nila yung at kung gusto nila regulate the c;ean air act they should try testing our local diesel fuel as our diesel fuel is not as refine n clean as euro standard

[phidze]

Sir bengbangerz,

I'm not familiar with natural gas, but AFAIK CNG and LPG have the same source with different process, Siguro yun Malampaya ang gusto mong sabihin, it's located off shore of Palawan, it's a consortium of Shell (45%) , Chevron (45%,formerly Caltex) and PNOC (10% government). It hold not much reserved, it can only supply 20%(ata) of our nations needs kaya import dependent pa rin tayo. From the horses mouth (i don't have the proof ) , eh the government "daw" already sold it concession up to some where in the future, kaya parang imported din. Sa totoo lang, I'm not optimistic sa programa nang goberyno regarding this matter.

 

For the critics of E10, Please read the Annual Energy Outlook Report 2007 by The US department of Energy: linked posted by Sir ricoyan. here is the continuation:

 

Today, most fuel ethanol is used in gasoline blends, where it accounts for as much as 10 percent of each gallon of fuel—a level that all cars can accommodate. In higher blends, ethanol can make up as much as 85 percent of each gallon of fuel by volume. In the future, increased use of ethanol as a transportation fuel will raise the issue of fuel volume versus energy content. Ethanol contains less energy per gallon than does conventional gasoline. A gallon of ethanol has only two-thirds the energy of a gallon of conventional gasoline, and the number of miles traveled by a given vehicle per gallon of fuel is directly proportional to the energy contained in the fuel.

 

E10 (10 percent ethanol) has 3.3 percent less energy content per gallon than conventional gasoline. E85 (which currently averages 74 percent ethanol by volume) has 24.7 percent less energy per gallon than conventional gasoline. AEO2007 assumes that engine thermal efficiency remains the same whether the vehicle burns conventional gasoline, E10, or E85. This means that 1.03 gallons of E10 or 1.33 gallons of E85 are needed for a vehicle to cover the same distance that it would with a gallon of conventional gasoline. Although the difference is not expected to have a significant effect on purchases of E10, AEO2007 assumes that motorists whose vehicles are able to run on E85 or conventional gasoline will compare the two fuels on the basis of price per unit of energy.

 

It only strenghten my claim that :(1.) E10 can be use in any car. (2.) from the data, it shown that E10 is already accepted worldwide. (3.) there is no report that using E10 will actually do damage to the car.

 

Theorically, It could be less expensive to use E10 compared to conventional gas. because as mention in this report. E10 is 3.33% less energy compared to conventional gas. so 1 gallon conventional gas( approx. 4 liters) is equal to 1.03 gallons of E10. let say XCS now cost 38.50/ liter, while E10 will be 37.00/liter (since E10 is cheaper by around 1.50). so 4lts. xcs will cost 154.00, while 1.03x4=4.12 lts. of E10 cost 152.44. may savings pa sa E10. :cool:

 

Sir ricoyan,

Don't change the topic, you're claiming "NOT TRUE, ethanol has less energy density, about 85% compared to gasoline", and scientifically backed. It cannot be found anywhere in the report and there is no such "85% compared to gasoline" thing, the report said only 3.33% less. Or you're pertaining E85? don't worry, as of meantime, less than 20% of nationwide petrol stations are E10 complaint, it's long way to go... E85 is a distant future dream. :sleepysmiley03:

 

Unless you can produce concrete data about "85%" thing, I do believe it scientifically backed in diploma mills in Recto.

 

This report Originally published in the Annual Energy Outlook 2007, February 2007, Washington, DC, under George W. Bush administration, it's nothing to do with Obama.

 

Obviously, alam ko yun sinasabi ko. , I'm not "one of those loud, know-it-all employees", It's Sir S14 created this topic, sinasagot ko lang po yun tanong nya.

 

I just want to give proper information regarding E10 , hindi po ako naghahanap nang kawaay dito. I think it's already enough for me for this topic. God bless all. :mtc:

[ricoyan]

Don't change the topic, you're claiming "NOT TRUE, ethanol has less energy density, about 85% compared to gasoline", and scientifically backed. It cannot be found anywhere in the report and there is no such "85% compared to gasoline" thing

 

I misread the chart, ETHANOL has even lower energy content, just 67% compared to GASOLINE.

 

Conventional gasoline contains about 114,000 Btu Heat energy per gallon. Ethanol contains just 76,000 Btu in a gallon, or about two-thirds the energy of gasoline.

 

The Chart is there in the US DOE report, look for it. DONT BE LAZY.

 

The 3.3% is the lowered mileage you would expect when you use e10 fuel.

 

Therefore, e10 and Gasoline are NOT the "Same person with different shirt" as you claim. That's why marami nagdududa sa yo dito. You keep insisting pareho lang sila.

 

 

Even HONDA MOTORS CO. agrees with me, they state: Ethanol contains LESS energy value than petrol. In theory, some LOSS of POWER and fuel economy may occur when using E10.

 

And HONDA won't even dare recommend E10 to their pre-2000 cars, and yet you assured S14 it is OK to use it on his 90's HONDA engine. Mas magaling ka pa kaysa sa gumagawa ng Makina at Kotse.

 

You are misleading people with your so-called expertise.

Edited July 26, 2009 by ricoyan

[S14]

thinks its better if we could get a petitionfor the big three player to still produce the unleaded fuel non ethanol blend as many vehicle is going to suffer in the long run n i stated that not everyone can afford a new vehicle with the increasing economic crisis and cost of parts

[downloading]

natawa naman ako sa isa dito. sinabi na nga nagka problem yung sasakyan niya gamit e10 pinipilit parin na pwede. :thumbsdownsmiley:

[phidze]

Misread 85 and 67, sound incredible.

 

NOT TRUE, ethanol has less energy density, about 85% compared to gasoline. Kaya expect lower mileage when you use E10 fuel.

That's scientifically backed kaya you can't argue about this TRUTH.

 

I misread the chart, ETHANOL has even lower energy content, just 67% compared to GASOLINE.

 

Conventional gasoline contains about 114,000 Btu Heat energy per gallon. Ethanol contains just 76,000 Btu in a gallon, or about two-thirds the energy of gasoline.

 

 

 

Sir ricoyan,

you miss the mark by a mile, remember we are talking about DENSITY not CONTENT. "Density" is different from "content". Density is mass per volume. In short, petrol product use kilogram per liter (Kg/l) at certain temperature. Your data is irrelevant to the subject.

 

I'm not insisting na pareho sila, What I say is it can " work, use, compatible ",back read lang sa mga post ko. If you mean "characteristically identical", don't get me wrong, If 2 persons have the same character, it does not mean they also have the same intellegence and wisdom. Same with petrol product, I didn't say it they have the same formulation, composition, dye color...etc. May big big similarity lang sila. "same person with different shirt" kaya nga may different. I even mention from my previous post that E10 has its down side.

 

As per U.S. department of Energy annual report state: "Today, most fuel ethanol is used in gasoline blends, where it accounts for as much as 10 percent of each gallon of fuel—a level that all cars can accommodate." I think it's already layman term, walang statement na pre 2000 car below hindi pwede.

[ricoyan]

" I think it's already layman term, walang statement na pre 2000 car below hindi pwede.

 

Sabi ng HONDA in their website: ONLY the following Honda vehicles may be operated using fuel containing up to 10% ethanol (E10):

http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/Ho...Owners/Ethanol/

 

Accord

2003 onwards

Civic (including Hybrid)

2004 onwards

Integra

2002 onwards

Legend

2007 onwards

Odyssey

2004 onwards

Accord Euro

2003 onwards

CR-V

2003 onwards

Jazz

2004 onwards

MDX

2003 onwards

S2000

2004 onwards

 

Other Honda vehicles were not designed or tested with E10 and therefore the long-term effects are not proven.

 

Ethanol contains less energy value than petrol. In theory, some loss of power and fuel economy may occur when using E10.

 

 

Then why did you assure S14 that his 90's HONDA will work well with E10, when even HONDA wouldn't recommend it? You are putting him under Risk by your unwise recommendation.

 

 

If you mean "characteristically identical", don't get me wrong, if 2 persons have the same character, it does not mean they also have the same intellegence and wisdom.

 

May big big similarity lang sila.

 

"Same person with different shirt"

 

Ano ba talaga? 2 Persons o Same Person? You are contradicting yourself in the same paragraph.

 

You sound like a USED CAR salesman.

Edited July 27, 2009 by ricoyan

[bengbangerz]

Sir bengbangerz,

I'm not familiar with natural gas, but AFAIK CNG and LPG have the same source with different process, Siguro yun Malampaya ang gusto mong sabihin, it's located off shore of Palawan, it's a consortium of Shell (45%) , Chevron (45%,formerly Caltex) and PNOC (10% government). It hold not much reserved, it can only supply 20%(ata) of our nations needs kaya import dependent pa rin tayo. From the horses mouth (i don't have the proof ) , eh the government "daw" already sold it concession up to some where in the future, kaya parang imported din. Sa totoo lang, I'm not optimistic sa programa nang goberyno regarding this matter.

 

kaya nga eh bulok ang govt.

i think dapat mas gamitin yan sa mga power plants para di tayo mashado dependent sa imported oil.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas

 

yan po wikipedia link...sa pangalan pa lang CNG, compressed natural gas..iba po ata yan LPG which is liquified petroleum gas.

 

wala naman talaga issue sana kung lahat ng automakers eh magbibigay ng statement na OKAY talaga ito. pero hindi eh.

saka po, ampanget ng mileage ko since gumamit ako ng e10. sakit sa bulsa. kung dati full tank ko halos dalawang linggo ngayon isa na lang kahit bihira na ko mag aircon at mabait na sa pagmamaneho.

 

saka pano naman yung mga old school na sasakyan ko. like carburated engines. eh sa gasolinahan mismo nakalagay e10 is recommended "mostly" to electronically fuel injected engines. (im sure may mostly dun...di ko lang sure kung yung exact phrase ang nakopya ko verbatim)

 

baket mostly??? hindi all? tas wala ka options na bumili ng walang e10.

[bengbangerz]

To those who hate E10 to the bone :evil: , they prefer " XCS and Gold" because it's ethanol free and untarnished petroleum product. I say it's only psychological effect, here is the revelation, check the XCS ads in major newspapers. It's said " get (the) unrelenting power in you drive. Go petron XCS with 95? octane rating." but at it's lower small print, it's said" powered by premium ORGANIC combustion enhancers...." do organic,renewable and biogradable are synonymous? As for "Gold" with Techron cleaning power,eh ano yun component of nang Techron ? :D . Oil companies do a lot of strategies to outwit and outdone each other, but they are singing the same tune.

 

until next time... nasa SPA kasi ako right now, it's my turn na..haha

 

 

huh?? sinabe na ba na yung enhancer eh ethanol?

labo.

wag mo mashado i analyze sir. baka mabaliw ka kakaisip. mahirap mag speculate :upside:

 

kung ganun nga pala dapat lang pala lalo na magalit ako na gumagamit ako ng xcs thinking na walang ethanol

lintek na big three at lintek na gobyerno. kung sino man yung naka isip at yung mga walang entang naging consultant dito sa issue na to...sana kumaen muna ng mani bago gumawa ng desisyon :thumbsdownsmiley:

[phidze]

Sir ricoyan,

 

Please don't keep changing the topic, eto yun topic na claim mo:

 

NOT TRUE, ethanol has less energy density, about 85% compared to gasoline. Kaya expect lower mileage when you use E10 fuel.

 

That's scientifically backed kaya you can't argue about this TRUTH.

 

Ang tinatanong ko ay yun " less energy DENSITY,about 85% compared to gasoline", eh scientifically backed by whom? and the "TRUTH" pa? Paki sagot lang nang mabuti, bago mo maki alam sa topic nang iba.

 

you already misread "85" and "67", eh don't say na misread mo rin yun "DENSITY" and "CONTAIN".

[ricoyan]

a honda motor 90's but can be view at some manufacturer site that is it not recommended. i have already suffer broken fuel pumps after continous usage for 2 months before on seaoil ethanol based fuel.

 

natawa naman ako sa isa dito. sinabi na nga nagka problem yung sasakyan niya gamit e10 pinipilit parin na pwede. :thumbsdownsmiley:

 

HAHAHAHA, ONGGA. NAGMAMARUNONG E.

 

 

If it's a Honda 90's Japan surplus engine, definitely it can adopt quite well on E-10

 

HONDA na nga nagsabi hindi pwede, pinipilit pang pwede.

 

HOY, tumahimik ka na lang, masira pa kotse namin dahil sa iyo.

Edited July 29, 2009 by ricoyan

[X3ME15]

the idealism of ethanol based fuel mix is undeniably good on paper bec. its a renewable kind of energy source which can benefit the environment but the truth is its not applicable to every engine thus negate the good characteristic of the said source..

 

it's also undeniable that E-10l isn't compatible to pre 2000 model engines considering the numerous reports of E-10 induced problems all over the internet.. it can't be denied and that's a fact to itself.

 

 

maybe an 100% ethanol based engine for the masses will be better but that's still in the far future..

Edited July 30, 2009 by X3ME15

[koloki]

xcs ng petron ... dami ko kasing nakukuhang freebies sa petron pag xmas kaya naging loyal ako ^__^

[S14]

http://www.hondamakati.com.ph/Ver2/News&am...Submit=Features