Linux Anybody?

[Screwtape]

Linux Security is all really a state of mind. Back then, there werent a lot of security issues with it because not a lot of people have really been using it. A lot have been using it for Servers, but not for Desktops. But now that there are... the hackers have more reasons to write intrusive programs so we see these starting to come out of the woodworks.

 

If you really think about it, Linux would be the most vulnerable to attacks since the source code of the kernel is available to anyone and there's no need to reverse engineer any of the OS modules to figure out how it works.. except of course for the commercial releases like RedHat, etc. So I guess it really boils down to the fact that we know that at least for the most of these technical hackers, we know that they are obviously more sympathetic to the open source movement, than they are to the Evil Empire.

 

As far as market share is concerned, Linux still remains to occupy the server niche more than the desktop users and I don't really see it tipping to the other end in the near future.

[hitomi]

fedora core 4 user here.tried suse9.3,ubuntu and kubuntu and also linspire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

fedora is a commercial release right? where didja buy it and for how much? i hear its more user friendly than other linux releases.

[R@v3n]

Linux Security is all really a state of mind. Back then, there werent a lot of security issues with it because not a lot of people have really been using it. A lot have been using it for Servers, but not for Desktops. But now that there are... the hackers have more reasons to write intrusive programs so we see these starting to come out of the woodworks.

 

If you really think about it, Linux would be the most vulnerable to attacks since the source code of the kernel is available to anyone and there's no need to reverse engineer any of the OS modules to figure out how it works.. except of course for the commercial releases like RedHat, etc. So I guess it really boils down to the fact that we know that at least for the most of these technical hackers, we know that they are obviously more sympathetic to the open source movement, than they are to the Evil Empire.

 

As far as market share is concerned, Linux still remains to occupy the server niche more than the desktop users and I don't really see it tipping to the other end in the near future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just because the source code is freely viewable by everyone doesn't mean that it is less secure. It can also mean that there are also more people able to audit the code thereby leading to a reduction in overall vulnerability. Also, because there are more people willing to volunteer their time to maintain the code, even vulnerabilities that are discovered can be patched a lot quicker than closed source solutions. :headsetsmiley:

[Guest Leviticus]

fedora is a commercial release right? where didja buy it and for how much? i hear its more user friendly than other linux releases.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

fedora is the beta for red hat (if you look it up, fedora is a kind of hat too ). It can be downloaded from the internet. the latest release (core 5) is more user-friendly than its predecesors; including RHE 4

[Screwtape]

Just because the source code is freely viewable by everyone doesn't mean that it is less secure. It can also mean that there are also more people able to audit the code thereby leading to a reduction in overall vulnerability. Also, because there are more people willing to volunteer their time to maintain the code, even vulnerabilities that are discovered can be patched a lot quicker than closed source solutions.  :headsetsmiley:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course... this has always been the core tenet of the GNU GPL. I would've expected some counter ramblings about real architecture issues....

 

My first point is still... you cannot deny that Windows will always remain to be the biggest target of malicious code simply because of the larger user base. And because of that, there is simply more to gain from attacking it rather than something that is is used by a niche market.

 

Second, and I offer a slightly different point here... Is that security in LINUX or UNIX-based systems and Windows are essentially different. The main difference is really because Widnows architecture was geared towards makig things easier for the user, while LINUX/UNIX is geared towards server use... regardless of giving the users (which would be the admins) extra steps to follow in order to effect the act.

 

Let's try to articulate all of these rather than simply give a sweeping statement that LINUX or UNIX-based systems are more "secure" which everybody seems to drop as an easy line. Windows for example makes it easier for a user to execute programs and run protocols wihtout the user knowing fully well what is happening or what is necessary to happen underneath. For example when you open an email attachment, all you have to do is click and the app launches. In fact, it was even allowed to execute the app from the preview pane. In Linux, everything would have to be explicit like saving the attachment and giving the attachment execution rights. Even if the malicious code ran, it would only have the potential to damage those that are within that user's /home directory. Meaning the system files will always be secure. The only way it could really cause serious system havoc is if it was ran from the root account. Which is why I also recommended never to use root for "daily" tasks in another thread.

 

This is where I would like to offer a different perspective since I beleive the focus is on home users switching to LINUX because of it's "security". If a Linux virus wrecked havoc in your /home directory, your personal files are the number 1 target. Other users arent affected, and the system sure as hell won't be affected. No crash. No system failure. No corrupted system file. System is secure so to speak.... unless you are stupid enough to run it using root of course. But are the system files really more important than your personal files? That my friends, is a question that can be answered by every average Joe user. So in the end, potential devastation that malicious code can bring to LINUX is the same for Windows, at least for the kind of data that really matters to the home user.

 

Now, if we were talking about servers, then that's a different story.

[tobats04]

Linux Security is all really a state of mind. Back then, there werent a lot of security issues with it because not a lot of people have really been using it. A lot have been using it for Servers, but not for Desktops. But now that there are... the hackers have more reasons to write intrusive programs so we see these starting to come out of the woodworks.

 

If you really think about it, Linux would be the most vulnerable to attacks since the source code of the kernel is available to anyone and there's no need to reverse engineer any of the OS modules to figure out how it works.. except of course for the commercial releases like RedHat, etc. So I guess it really boils down to the fact that we know that at least for the most of these technical hackers, we know that they are obviously more sympathetic to the open source movement, than they are to the Evil Empire.

 

As far as market share is concerned, Linux still remains to occupy the server niche more than the desktop users and I don't really see it tipping to the other end in the near future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I beg to disagree.. Linux is slowly inching up its way towards consumer market share... a few years ago it was around 2 - 5 % and now it's growing faster from 15 - 20% of total market share. Just imagine that span of time. Microsoft is being threatened that's why they are starting to give freebies such as free SQL express 2005 and Visual Studio Express 2005. If you are in the real IT business you would already feel the POWER OF LINUX... That's why big companies like Oracle and AMD are teaming up with SUN bec. they are fully supporting the Linux environment. A lot of new software/web applications right now have been implementing standards for linux platform and even the Hardware such as Laptops have been sold with alternative Linux OS. Back there in Manila you would barely feel Linux, but for your information in the South - Visayas and Mindanao are pioneering the Linux society and are establishing their own community to develop and maintain web applications - I happen to know some of them and they are well respected in the business community with the Visayas - Mindanao area, esp. Cebu. You would most likely not feel the numbers of Linux users bec. piracy in Phils. is so rampant. In the US and most countries were piracy are illegal - a lot of users are turning down Microsoft and are gradually shifting to Linux - why? because it's free or rather you don't have to buy any licenses. Linux is the Hype today, and one good thing about Linux users are kinda decent - like they kinda have ethics about hacking stuff... Microsoft are more prone to hackers since they know at least in some way there are money in it... Linux objectives is a shareware society and it's but high time now that people are recognizing it... Install one today and you most likely would enjoy the experience and find out that Linux are not far behind from Microsoft. Linux rulz...

[Screwtape]

I beg to disagree..  Linux is slowly inching up its way towards consumer market share...  a few years ago it was around 2 - 5 % and now it's growing faster from 15 - 20% of total market share.  Just imagine that span of time.  Microsoft is being threatened that's why they are starting to give freebies such as free SQL express 2005 and Visual Studio Express 2005.  If you are in the real IT business you would already feel the POWER OF LINUX...  That's why big companies like Oracle and AMD are teaming up with SUN bec. they are  fully supporting the Linux environment.  A lot of new software/web applications right now have been implementing standards for linux platform and even the Hardware such as Laptops have been sold with alternative Linux OS.  Back there in Manila you would barely feel Linux, but for your information in the South - Visayas and Mindanao are pioneering the Linux society and are establishing their own community to develop and maintain web applications - I happen to know some of them and they are well respected in the business community with the Visayas - Mindanao area, esp. Cebu.  You would most likely not feel the numbers of Linux users bec. piracy in Phils. is so rampant.  In the US and most countries were piracy  are illegal - a lot of users are turning down Microsoft and are gradually shifting to Linux - why? because it's free or rather you don't have to buy any licenses.  Linux is the Hype today, and one good thing about Linux users are kinda decent - like they kinda have ethics about hacking stuff...  Microsoft are more prone to hackers since they know at least in some way there are money in it...  Linux objectives is a shareware society and it's but high time now that people are recognizing it...  Install one today and you most likely would enjoy the experience and find out that Linux are not far behind from Microsoft.  Linux rulz...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I dont exactly know which one to react more... the fact that you are insinuating that I am not in the real IT business... or the fact that I don't know any of the stuff you mentioned that is basically splattered across all IT magazines, symposiums, seminars, and what nots that even a newbie like maybe yourself(?) can instantly quote and claim... and nobody tries to debate with it.

 

I am not a big fan of Microsoft but I dont necessarily go around biting the "Hype of today" hook, line and sinker. Do you have any sensible discussion you would like to pursue? Maybe we can go down on the technical details and try to articulate what really makes LINUX so damn good and secure and stop quoting magazines?

 

Please share your personal experiences in administering your LINUX babies...

[Guest Leviticus]

linux experience: well, it took me a total of 3 months to learn linux server side applications.

 

everything seemed hard at first but once you get used to it (especially with shell scripting) the expression "sisiw" (young chicken or fetus) comes to mind.

 

if for desktop applications like encoding or desktop publishing, it took me days to learn it. It is a little hard to get used to, and to migrate to especially when you have mastered Windows.

 

most definitely at this point I can say "I know linux". That phrase alone is the equivalent of patience and plenty of readings on the subject, mostly self-taught. :evil:

[averno]

only experience i had with linux is to run the ubuntu linux live cd wherein you wouldnt hafta install anything. im kinda hesitant about it though since i think most if not all of the persons i know uses windows and i wouldnt be able to turn to anyone if in any case i encounter a problem with the linux platform. i guess i just hafta learn and study eh

[Aaaa100000]

only experience i had with linux is to run the ubuntu linux live cd wherein you wouldnt hafta install anything. im kinda hesitant about it though since i think most if not all of the persons i know uses windows and i wouldnt be able to turn to anyone if in any case i encounter a problem with the linux platform. i guess i just hafta learn and study eh

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i have ubuntu too sir.. problem is.. im on developing application on j2EE..

i replace the ubuntu with redhat enterprise.. i cannot run and install some application we need.. like netbeans!

[R@v3n]

Of course... this has always been the core tenet of the GNU GPL. I would've expected some counter ramblings about real architecture issues....

 

My first point is still... you cannot deny that Windows will always remain to be the biggest target of malicious code simply because of the larger user base.  And because of that, there is simply more to gain from attacking it rather than something that is is used by a niche market.

 

Second, and I offer a slightly different point here... Is that security in LINUX or UNIX-based systems and Windows are essentially different. The main difference is really because Widnows architecture was geared towards makig things easier for the user, while LINUX/UNIX is geared towards server use... regardless of giving the users (which would be the admins) extra steps to follow in order to effect the act.

 

Let's try to articulate all of these rather than simply give a sweeping statement that LINUX or UNIX-based systems are more "secure" which everybody seems to drop as an easy line. Windows for example makes it easier for a user to execute programs and run protocols wihtout the user knowing fully well what is happening or what is necessary to happen underneath. For example when you open an email attachment, all you have to do is click and the app launches. In fact, it was even allowed to execute the app from the preview pane. In Linux, everything would have to be explicit like saving the attachment and giving the attachment execution rights. Even if the malicious code ran, it would only have the potential to damage those that are within that user's /home directory. Meaning the system files will always be secure. The only way it could really cause serious system havoc is if it was ran from the root account. Which is why I also recommended never to use root for "daily" tasks in another thread.

 

This is where I would like to offer a different perspective since I beleive the focus is on home users switching to LINUX because of it's "security". If a Linux virus wrecked havoc in your /home directory, your personal files are the number 1 target. Other users arent affected, and the system sure as hell won't be affected. No crash. No system failure. No corrupted system file. System is secure so to speak.... unless you are stupid enough to run it using root of course. But are the system files really more important than your personal files? That my friends, is a question that can be answered by every average Joe user.  So in the end, potential devastation that malicious code can bring to LINUX is the same for Windows, at least for the kind of data that really matters to the home user.

 

Now, if we were talking about servers, then that's a different story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

File access permissions are not the only thing that makes linux more secure than Windows. An example of another reason why Windows is basically insecure is because of its tight integration with its flawed browser, Internet Explorer. Whenever a flaw is found in IE, you can almost be sure that something in Windows get's tied up to the flaw as well. Also, just because there are file permissions set doesn't mean that it's essentially secure. Another difference between Linux and Windows is that Windows device drivers operates at kernel mode which means that when a driver has a bug, the whole kernel just stops (BSOD...). In linux, the kernel and the drivers are in separate user spaces which means it can simply reset the driver if ever it malfunctions. Also, while Linux is still hard to get used to (if you're used to Windows...) it's slowly getting to a point where its GUIs can compete with the Microsoft standard. Just look at KDE! It's much more beautiful and less resource intensive than its Windows XP counterpart (explorer...if you call that a counterpart...) :headsetsmiley:

 

I beg to disagree..  Linux is slowly inching up its way towards consumer market share...  a few years ago it was around 2 - 5 % and now it's growing faster from 15 - 20% of total market share.  Just imagine that span of time.  Microsoft is being threatened that's why they are starting to give freebies such as free SQL express 2005 and Visual Studio Express 2005.  If you are in the real IT business you would already feel the POWER OF LINUX...  That's why big companies like Oracle and AMD are teaming up with SUN bec. they are  fully supporting the Linux environment.  A lot of new software/web applications right now have been implementing standards for linux platform and even the Hardware such as Laptops have been sold with alternative Linux OS.  Back there in Manila you would barely feel Linux, but for your information in the South - Visayas and Mindanao are pioneering the Linux society and are establishing their own community to develop and maintain web applications - I happen to know some of them and they are well respected in the business community with the Visayas - Mindanao area, esp. Cebu.  You would most likely not feel the numbers of Linux users bec. piracy in Phils. is so rampant.  In the US and most countries were piracy  are illegal - a lot of users are turning down Microsoft and are gradually shifting to Linux - why? because it's free or rather you don't have to buy any licenses.  Linux is the Hype today, and one good thing about Linux users are kinda decent - like they kinda have ethics about hacking stuff...  Microsoft are more prone to hackers since they know at least in some way there are money in it...  Linux objectives is a shareware society and it's but high time now that people are recognizing it...  Install one today and you most likely would enjoy the experience and find out that Linux are not far behind from Microsoft.  Linux rulz...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I totally agree that Microsoft is starting to take Linux seriously. There have been numerous articles that tend to support this when viewed from a higher perspective. Moves like M$ starting to focus on security, creating a Linux team for research and development, etc. :cool:

 

I dont exactly know which one to react more... the fact that you are insinuating that I am not in the real IT business... or the fact that I don't know any of the stuff you mentioned that is basically splattered across all IT magazines, symposiums, seminars, and what nots that even a newbie like maybe yourself(?) can instantly quote and claim... and nobody tries to debate with it.

 

I am not a big fan of Microsoft but I dont necessarily go around biting the "Hype of today" hook, line and sinker. Do you have any sensible discussion you would like to pursue? Maybe we can go down on the technical details and try to articulate what really makes LINUX so damn good and secure and stop quoting magazines?

 

Please share your personal experiences in administering your LINUX babies...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cool down...both of you have your points...this is a public discussion board and as such we must always act in a calm manner...

[escorear]

am workin on it in a Global CASINO environment.

 

and it performs well.... :cool:

 

1 out of 40 windows unscheduled system shutdown... :hypocritesmiley:

[kelvin]

sana kasing galing ko kayo.

[tobats04]

I dont exactly know which one to react more... the fact that you are insinuating that I am not in the real IT business... or the fact that I don't know any of the stuff you mentioned that is basically splattered across all IT magazines, symposiums, seminars, and what nots that even a newbie like maybe yourself(?) can instantly quote and claim... and nobody tries to debate with it.

 

I am not a big fan of Microsoft but I dont necessarily go around biting the "Hype of today" hook, line and sinker. Do you have any sensible discussion you would like to pursue? Maybe we can go down on the technical details and try to articulate what really makes LINUX so damn good and secure and stop quoting magazines?

 

Please share your personal experiences in administering your LINUX babies...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What's wrong with biting the "Hype of today"? are you scared to know if what is 'Hype' today might be the 'Standards' of tomorrow? You claim that Linux "still remains to occupy the server niche more than the desktop users and I don't really see it tipping to the other end in the near future" - is totally wrong - because a lot of user have totally installed it in their desktops already. As what I've said you just can't feel it there in Manila bec. a lot of people are using Microsoft and it's pirated copies. I don't have to describe every detail of Linux compared to Microsoft as the discussion would prove nothing as Linux is totally different from Microsoft. But the point that you are downplaying the role of Linux in the IT world is far from the real truth. Linux and its likes were already existing since Microsoft was invented, it's just that Microsoft purused the better marketing of selling itself with equivalent to money. Linux is not. The bottom line, a lot of systems would be invented now and then and it's only Linux that has proven to establish the worthiness of an Open Source System that battled Microsoft's Marketing Strategy. Linux provided an option for an open source system which delivers - security, stablity and efficiency to the likes of Microsoft without having to invest on big money.

[Guest Leviticus]

guys, meron ba counterpart ang MS frontpage express sa opensource? para direct to the folder na ang paggawa ko ng internal webpages (using apache).

 

ang ginagawa ko now is through Samba shared folder. Ok lang sa akin but I really want to do away with windows TOTALLY.