Poll: Bongbong Marcos Vs Leni Robredo

[camiar]

I copied this from Mr. Rod Kapunan's Post in Facebook and I agree to all his points:

".. . The opposition will miserably be defeated this coming election based on the following consideration:

1)     All are engaged in a blame game. They blame each other more than they blame administration

2)     They cannot identify and refuses to acknowledge who should lead their alliance. All want to be known as leader.

3)     Their alliance with the CPP, NDF, NPA and front orgaizations to augment followers has terribly backfired. This has badly affected the pious hypocrites because the communists are atheist and has no respect for human rights.

4)     Failure to complete a ticket is an indictation many of them will not make it. They included in their ragtag ticket candidates not belonging to them including one they accused of corruption.

5)     Some are attacking each other than in centering the administration candidate. Some of them now look like clowns

6)     The opposition badly suffers from financial and logistical support. Their traditional patron now relies on the resources from the candidates themselves expecting to make money for its failure to extend the much needed resources.

7)     Many oligarchs are hesitant to support for fear of antagonizing the new money bug that today had an edge against the greedy elite. True to their color as hypocrites have become more of a racist than ideologues.

 

This political line is dictated by their bankrupt US master.."

Edited October 17, 2021 by camiar

[camiar]

On 10/16/2021 at 11:33 PM, plug said:

Pink Leni masasabing may malasakit sa mamamayan at bansang Pilipinas pero hindi masasabi na siya ay isang leader.

BBM anak ng isang leader at kung sakaling maupo na pangulo ay bubuwagin niya ang PCGG para matigil ang pag recover sa ill gotten wealth at papalitan ng Commission on Revisionism. Marami pa rin kasing mga mamamayan na kulang ang kaalaman sa 20 years na rule ng ama niyang si FM. Kung may nare recover ibig sabihin may ninakaw.

At ang tunay na opposition ay kaming Pilipinong butante dahil sa eleksyon 2022 tututulan namin na maulit ang mali, mapangabuso at di makatarungan pamamalakad ng gobyerno past and present.

Si Leni ay walang national leadership at governance ability. Kawawa ang mamamayan kung mananalo siya. Pero di sya mananalo. Basahin mo yung post ko sa itaas kung bakit.

They claim Marcos stole US$ 30 Billion since the 1950's. PCGG recovered a few hundred million dollars, most of which are not Marcos's properties but actually owned by businessmen and political figures who were unfortunate enough to be identified as Marcos's allies during Martial Law. So, hindi totoo na kung may na-recover, may ninakaw.

The irony of it all is that the PCGG is under threat of being abolished by the Philippine Government after allegations that PCGG commissioners were "milking" sequestered surrendered corporations, using excess foreign travel allowances, and taking cash advances without liquidation. 

[camiar]

To those who missed the news about Rappler's attempt at political survey that backfired on them, here's a copy of Manila Times' commentary:

Rappler's Facebook poll shows Marcos winning, Bulletin's by a landslide

Read Next

 By Rigoberto Tiglao

Monday, October 18, 2021

A FACEBOOK-based poll by Rappler, a US-funded, anti-Marcos news website, showed Ferdinand Marcos, Jr. taking 54 percent of votes, and Leni Robredo, 42 percent. The poll was initially scheduled to run for three days from October 7 to 9. It was abruptly shut down on the second day though, when a Marcos win was obviously irreversible.

The poll results were deleted from the website, but fortunately, not a few patriotic netizens took "screengrabs," even videos of these.

The Manila Bulletin undertook an exactly similar Facebook poll from October 15 up to yesterday at 12 noon, and its results would likely have also been similar to that of Rappler's if it had continued its poll. The Bulletin was obviously taking a potshot at Rappler when it said in its announcement, "The survey will not be taken down and will be archived as we do this once a month."

The Bulletin poll showed Marcos winning by a landslide, getting 72 percent of votes with Robredo just 24 percent. Francisco "Isko Moreno" Domagoso was a far third with just 2 percent of the votes. Senators Ronald "Bato" dela Rosa, Emmanuel "Manny" Pacquiao and Panfilo "Ping" Lacson each got less than 1 percent. They should just quit.

If you have doubts that the Manila Bulletin rigged its polls, note that its publisher is Herminio "Sonny" Coloma, who was the late president Benigno "Noynoy" Aquino 3rd's very loyal occasional spokesman and the head of his Presidential Communications Operations Office throughout his term. The Bulletin has had a tradition and a track record for being boringly nonpartisan to a fault.

Because of its polls, Rappler became the laughingstock of the cyber community, at the same time, though that the episode demonstrated its total dishonesty and bias for candidate Leni Robredo.

The Facebook poll was a clever, easy-to-do one using the platform's system for readers to register their reactions to a post. The candidates were each assigned emoticons and netizens were asked to click the emoticon for the candidate they chose to be the next president. Rappler's poll was scheduled to run for three days, October 7 to 9.

Although Robredo was winning in the first several hours, Marcos subsequently overtook her by double-digit percentages. What netizens found so anomalous, which they commented about hilariously, were two things.

 

 

RAPPLER                                                                                      MANILA BULLETIN

 

First, while votes for Robredo appeared first as one scrolled down to see the votes, these practically disappeared when most emoticons appearing were for Marcos that, as one netizen who recorded and posted it on YouTube said, his fingertips hurt that he stopped. This raised doubts that Rappler may be doing a "Smartmatic" maneuver, referring to widespread suspicions that Robredo won in 2016 because the company that ran the automated polling system rigged it for her to win.

Second, and which netizens really made fun of, was the fact that those voting for Robredo had names that were obviously foreign, with many even unreadable, especially those in Sanskrit script. Examples of such names, many even unpronounceable for us, that voted for Robredo were: Ta If Kh An, Mitu Bwoilo, Ni Rahul, Heli Ivri, Sadah Tahir, Atsayi Mponda, Rami Sm and Sino Track. The conclusion was obvious: Robredo or Rappler or both were deploying troll farms, many of which are said to be in Pakistan and Nigeria. In contrast, there was no question that the votes for Marcos were by those with Filipino names.

Examples of respondents voting for Robredo, many in Sanskrit and Arabic script. (Actual screenshots)

The poll should tell Robredo and her Finks there's no way she can win. Even if the United States could manipulate the Nobel Committee to give the opposition's high-profile de facto spokesman the peace prize to give her stature, it is no longer as powerful as during the Cory era to change the course of our history.

Even by deploying trolls, Robredo terribly lost in a poll dominantly participated in by, for lack of a better word, the "non-masses" (the core of which is the elite) whom most people had thought was Robredo's political base. If the "non-masses" even prefer Marcos, how much more would the masses who mostly have no access to the dominant Yellow print and TV media, which for three decades disseminated a "Marcos-was-an-evil-dictator" narrative.

What got netizens rolling on the floor with laughter was when Rappler abruptly stopped its poll when Marcos' margin over Robredo was getting wider every hour. Rappler gave the very lame excuse, thinking their audience were stupid: "We realized that the poll was not aligned with our objectives, so we have decided to take it down." As dishonest and arrogant as its chief executive officer, Maria Ressa.

That is, the poll showed Filipinos preferred Marcos over Robredo, which was not their objective, and therefore they took it down. Hilarious.

Facebook: Rigoberto Tiglao

Twitter: @bobitiglao

Archives: www.rigobertotiglao.com

 

SOURCE LINK: https://www.manilatimes.net/2021/10/18/opinion/columns/rapplers-facebook-poll-shows-marcos-winning-bulletins-by-a-landslide/1818798

[MarkoAH]

On 10/13/2021 at 9:24 PM, camiar said:

I will not continue to engage you in an intelligent discussion if you start it with ad hominem. So forget about your false imagination about his mental capacity. I assume you're beyond high school level in education and know about genetics. BBM has 50% of the genes of his father. If you really watched the video, you would see how articulate he is on the issues he presented. His voice even sounds a lot like his father. I'm sure even if he's just half as good as his father, he's more than adequate to be our President.

No ad hominems, please.

Let's stick to the issues. We're talking about the vision and platform of governance he presented. There were several of them in the video. Which one do you want to discuss first for comparison with Leni's platform?

 

What can you say about court decisions regarding the Marcoses? What can you say about peer-reviewed academic journals presenting evidence against Marcos' crimes? A good example is a Yale University publication.

https://heinonline.org/hol-cgi-bin/get_pdf.cgi?handle=hein.journals/yjil20&section=7

In my perspective, those are the facts.

[Theveed]

#labanlenikiko2022.  Just look at her works... That's all you need.  She's not hiding anything. No lies, no deceit. No troll army.   I'll stop here, because you can't say that for the other camps. 

[plug]

Pink Leni parang pa cute with her eyeglasses on. With what vision kaya?

BBM a revisionist? At least may vision din.

Galing sa isang partido na maka Diyos daw. We have forgiven but we will never forget kahit yata 1 million years ago na yung pangyayari. Kung sabagay hindi nga rin nila makalimutan gamitin ang pangalan ng Diyos. Ano kinalaman ng Diyos sa eleksyon? 

[camiar]

19 hours ago, maccc2 said:

What can you say about court decisions regarding the Marcoses? What can you say about peer-reviewed academic journals presenting evidence against Marcos' crimes? A good example is a Yale University publication.

https://heinonline.org/hol-cgi-bin/get_pdf.cgi?handle=hein.journals/yjil20&section=7

In my perspective, those are the facts.

I can't open the file you linked without subscribing to Hein_online. I wouldn't spend on subscription just to answer a vague question.

Do not ask me to read the thesis for you.

You want to debate, you present your position. What does the paper say? What specific case is it about? What facts did it present?

 

By the way, the line of my discussion with @Harding is my objection to his statement: "Even if he BBM wants to imitate the vision of his father, we cannot expect him that he can do that because of his limited mental capacity. we all know that he is a school drop out...." -- as an ad hominem argument. I asked him to stick to issues of platforms of governance.  Apparently, you did not back-read before posting.

Edited October 20, 2021 by camiar

[MarkoAH]

8 hours ago, camiar said:

I can't open the file you linked without subscribing to Hein_online. I wouldn't spend on subscription just to answer a vague question.

Do not ask me to read the thesis for you.

You want to debate, you present your position. What does the paper say? What specific case is it about? What facts did it present?

 

By the way, the line of my discussion with @Harding is my objection to his statement: "Even if he BBM wants to imitate the vision of his father, we cannot expect him that he can do that because of his limited mental capacity. we all know that he is a school drop out...." -- as an ad hominem argument. I asked him to stick to issues of platforms of governance.  Apparently, you did not back-read before posting.

Hi, thanks for the reply. Replying on your last reply for convenience lang.

Didn't mention any specifcs about the paper (or any paper) since that was not the point of my question. My question is on credibility of sources first. Before discussing any issue, let's talk about credibilty of sources. For example, why would I believe Rod Kapunan more than the author of the article I shared - a Yale University Professor of Law, who was also Assoc Dir of National Law Center in George Washington University. Saan ba kumukuha ng sources si Mr. Kapunan? Care to share? Peer-reviewed ba and  published sa reputable journals? 

Kasi sa peer-reviewed and published dapat kumuha ng sources diba? Kahit saang field naman, yung mga critical and not-so-critical ideas, shared and referred to those kinds of journals. 

Again, care to share some credible sources, properly cited and hindi facebook or youtube post? 

Thanks! 

[camiar]

17 hours ago, maccc2 said:

Hi, thanks for the reply. Replying on your last reply for convenience lang.

Didn't mention any specifcs about the paper (or any paper) since that was not the point of my question. My question is on credibility of sources first. Before discussing any issue, let's talk about credibilty of sources. For example, why would I believe Rod Kapunan more than the author of the article I shared - a Yale University Professor of Law, who was also Assoc Dir of National Law Center in George Washington University. Saan ba kumukuha ng sources si Mr. Kapunan? Care to share? Peer-reviewed ba and  published sa reputable journals? 

Kasi sa peer-reviewed and published dapat kumuha ng sources diba? Kahit saang field naman, yung mga critical and not-so-critical ideas, shared and referred to those kinds of journals. 

Again, care to share some credible sources, properly cited and hindi facebook or youtube post? 

Thanks! 

Wow! I'm really amused because you seem to be really interested in a debate but seem to be clueless on the rules of debate.

First and foremost, stick to the topic, which is, is BBM intellectually competent enough to follow the program of government of his father?

Your response  asking my opinion about an academic paper by a Law Professor at Yale University, is way off topic. Especially so because you have not presented to me what the paper is all about. 

Now, you digress in questioning the credibility of my source on another post I made regarding the winnability of Leni's team, which is, again, off topic.

So tell me, which topic do you want to discuss:

1. Is BBM intellectually competent to follow his father's program of government?
2. What my opinion is on the cases against Marcos in the context of a paper authored by a certain Law Professor at Yale University? (Here, YOU have to present to me what the paper said, not ask me to read it for you)
3. Winnability of Leni's team based on Rod Kapunan's analysis?

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by camiar

[MarkoAH]

41 minutes ago, camiar said:

Wow! I'm really amused because you seem to be really interested in a debate but seem to be clueless on the rules of debate.

First and foremost, stick to the topic, which is, is BBM intellectually competent enough to follow the program of government of his father?

Your response  asking my opinion about an academic paper by a Law Professor at Yale University, is way off topic. Especially so because you have not presented to me what the paper is all about. 

Now, you digress in questioning the credibility of my source on another post I made regarding the winnability of Leni's team, which is, again, off topic.

So tell me, which topic do you want to discuss:

1. Is BBM intellectually competent to follow his father's program of government?
2. What my opinion is on the cases against Marcos in the context of a paper authored by a certain Law Professor at Yale University? (Here, YOU have to present to me what the paper said, not ask me to read it for you)
3. Winnability of Leni's team based on Rod Kapunan's analysis?

 

 

And I am reiterating, that I am presenting a different position. 

Position: "In discussing Marcos-related topics, one should use peer-reviewed credible sources" If you want to discuss this, I may ask, are you for or against this position? 

The above three points are your discussion with previous people, and I have not, and will not discuss them with you.  I think credibilty of sources should be discussed first and foremost. 

Just simply reply if you want to engage. Thanks! 

For those reading in the background, I miss my grad school pro-Marcos instructor, Prof. Fernandez. We discussed all kinds of Marcos-related ideas. Those were good debates! 

[camiar]

20 hours ago, maccc2 said:

And I am reiterating, that I am presenting a different position. 

Position: "In discussing Marcos-related topics, one should use peer-reviewed credible sources" If you want to discuss this, I may ask, are you for or against this position? 

The above three points are your discussion with previous people, and I have not, and will not discuss them with you.  I think credibilty of sources should be discussed first and foremost. 

Just simply reply if you want to engage. Thanks! 

For those reading in the background, I miss my grad school pro-Marcos instructor, Prof. Fernandez. We discussed all kinds of Marcos-related ideas. Those were good debates! 

Three things that can be deduced from your posts:

1. You haven't even read the Yale University academic paper you linked, that's why you decline to discuss it.

2. You were unaware of the topic that I was discussing with the other people. It explains why your posted reply to me was way off topic.

3. You think this unnamed Yale Law Professor has more credence in his paper on Marcos cases, than Mr. Kapunan in his article on why Leni's team will not win.

Hint #1: Winnability of Leni's team, is not about Marcos's court cases, which is definitely not about BBM's competence to implement his father's government programs.

Hint #2: Rod Kapunan's  expertise in political strategies is very different from your unnamed Yale Law Professor's expertise in court case analysis. So how do you compare their credibility on two different issues?

You're confused. 

I want to engage, but which topic are you talking about?

Edited October 22, 2021 by camiar

[MarkoAH]

30 minutes ago, camiar said:

Three things that can be deduced from your posts:

1. You haven't even read the Yale University academic paper you linked, that's why you decline to discuss it.

2. You were unaware of the topic that I was discussing with the other people. It explains why your posted reply to me was way off topic.

3. You think this unnamed Yale Law Professor has more credence in his paper on Marcos cases, than Mr. Kapunan in his article on why Leni's team will not win.

Hint #1: Winnability of Leni's team, is not about Marcos's court cases, which is definitely not about BBM's competence to implement his father's government programs.

Hint #2: Rod Kapunan's  expertise in political strategies is very different from your unnamed Yale Law Professor's expertise in court case analysis. So how do you compare their credibility on two different issues?

You're confused. 

I want to engage, but which topic are you talking about?hou

Hi thanks for the reply. 

I can already read your position in item 3 and Hint 2, and I don't think I can agree, based on Prof. Steinhardt's credentials alone. 

I have read and published a paper, with direct citation of his paper so there's a reply to item 1.

And to comment on your claim about my knowledge on debate rules: I am well-versed with WSS style, having won and coached international debates. And in my experience, discussion of credible sources precede other issues. 

With that, carry on with your conversation with above users. 

[camiar]

1 hour ago, maccc2 said:

Hi thanks for the reply. 

I can already read your position in item 3 and Hint 2, and I don't think I can agree, based on Prof. Steinhardt's credentials alone. 

I have read and published a paper, with direct citation of his paper so there's a reply to item 1.

And to comment on your claim about my knowledge on debate rules: I am well-versed with WSS style, having won and coached international debates. And in my experience, discussion of credible sources precede other issues. 

With that, carry on with your conversation with above users. 

Hahahaha! This is so hilarious!

You don't have to tell me what you have read or not. Just present you argument based on how you understood what you have read. 

You don't have to say that you, in fact, know debate rules, WSS even. I don't give a hoot if you have coached international debates. If you know the rules of debate, just follow them. Most important of which is, Stick to the topic.

People here can just back-read your posts and will definitely conclude that you're going all over the place!

In Tagalog, Nagkakalat ka!

Edited October 22, 2021 by camiar

[MarkoAH]

36 minutes ago, camiar said:

Hahahaha! This is so hilarious!

You don't have to tell me what you have read or not. Just present you argument based on how you understood what you have read. 

You don't have to say that you, in fact, know debate rules, WSS even. I don't give a hoot if you have coached international debates. If you know the rules of debate, just follow them. Most important of which is, Stick to the topic.

People here can just back-read your posts and will definitely conclude that you're going all over the place!

In Tagalog, Nagkakalat ka!

Need me to spell it out for you? 

In WSS practice, debating people who cannot even found his ideas in credible peer-reviewed sources will not be worth anybody's time. 

Carry on. 

[camiar]

4 hours ago, maccc2 said:

Need me to spell it out for you? 

In WSS practice, debating people who cannot even found his ideas in credible peer-reviewed sources will not be worth anybody's time. 

Carry on. 

🤣 ROTFL

What's this? You want to compare the credentials of my source on a political strategy issue (Rod Kapunan) vs.  the credentials of your source on issues of Marcos court cases (a Yale PhD)?

Mind you, political strategies on winning in elections is an entirely different issue  to  issues regarding Marcos court cases.

What's your obsession with peer-reviewed publications? Can't you discern for yourself on who to agree with without the say-so of other people?

I really can't see your point. I can choose for myself to agree or not with whatever Rod Kapunan writes about, based on the validity of his statements. It doesn't matter to me whether or not he has a PhD like your exalted Yale Law Professor. 

Rod Kapunan submits that Leni's team will be miserably defeated this coming elections. He stated 7 reasons why. (Backread my post last Sunday, scroll this page up to read it again). 

I agree with him.

I assume you know who Rod Kapunan is.

Do you?