Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[Mokong Dogyot]

My father used to be a mayor in a small town. Very loyal to Marcos. Then Marcos started stealing billions of dollars. My father withdrew his support. Why would I vote someone who has stolen 10 billion dollars?

[JonKartero]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:39 PM, camiar said:

Due diligence on Mijares? I did not.

The post is not mine. It just popped up in my Facebook page. But it's worth re-posting, complete with references.

Your idol Primitivo Mijares has been sufficiently demolished. This, alone, invalidates all your arguments. 

I have no idols. Only sources of information. Don't project your own bad habits on others. 

Ang harsh naman. "Invalidates all my arguments?" When Mijares is one of many sources of information?

Simple lang naman ang tanong. Character aside, is the information Mijares wrote in his book verifiable by other independent, verifiable, credible sources? And by "independent, verifiable, credible sources" I don't mean your own limited personal experiences. I mean by other people who also recorded history without any agenda other than record-keeping.

Same goes for your sources. Can they withstand scrutiny? On the whole, no. Ultimately, ang source nila are the Marcoses themselves. And the Marcoses have an agenda: to sanitize their name. And now, to return to Malacanang.

[JonKartero]

On 11/18/2021 at 3:16 AM, jubal said:

Facts are facts. Truths. Emphasizing them as a matter of record as opposed to being a matter of democracy would be a problematic viewpoint imho.

Phrases such as 'history is written by the victors' comes to mind. 

Allowing everyone to record and be heard is always better than suppressing information. What happens next is a battle of ideas and viewpoints where the winner wins on merit and not because there is no opposition. 

"Democracy" alone is a horrible way to record history. As Terry Goodkind once wrote, "Gang rape is democracy in action."

As I wrote in my first comment here: History is written by historians. Full stop. There is an academic discipline to it, there is a process to it. Within the context of this discipine, yes "democracy" works, because that sort of democracy relies on answers to the questions, "May sources ka ba? Sino? Credible ba? Verifiable ba?"

The marketplace of ideas was floated on the assumption that people could generally fact from fiction. The Internet as it has evolved does not work that way. The Internet does not care for fact: it cares for search engine optimization, for virality. Social media is a hundred times worse: it cares for its respective algorithms and social bubbles that promote content based on engagement rather than factual accuracy, based on likes and shares over truthfulness. When the platforms are rigged to downplay opposition, merit takes a backseat. What happens then?  

[camiar]

On 11/21/2021 at 10:26 AM, JonKartero said:

"Democracy" alone is a horrible way to record history. As Terry Goodkind once wrote, "Gang rape is democracy in action."

 

And who is Terry Goodkind? 

A writer of fantasies. Bad choice of reference.

Equating heinous crime of gang rape to democracy? 

Now I see where your perverse views are coming from.

[JonKartero]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:50 PM, camiar said:

And who is Terry Goodkind? 

A writer of fantasies. Bad choice of reference.

Equating heinous crime of gang rape to democracy? 

Now I see where your perverse views are coming from.

Ayaw mo sa "writer of fantasies" pero lahat ng pro-Marcos propaganda, tanggap ka lang ng tanggap. 🤣🤣🤣

The biggest difference between fiction authors like Terry Goodkind and the people you refer to as sources is that fiction authors are honest about what they write.

But hey, thanks as usual for admitting, by omission, that you have no response to anything else I wrote in that post. Madalas talaga kayong mga Marcos supporters, ang hilig umiwas sa diretsuhang usapan.

Tell me, naambunan ka na ba ng much-ballyhoed Tallano gold? Pasilip naman diyan!

[camiar]

2 minutes ago, JonKartero said:

Ayaw mo sa "writer of fantasies" pero lahat ng pro-Marcos propaganda, tanggap ka lang ng tanggap. 🤣🤣🤣

The biggest difference between fiction authors like Terry Goodkind and the people you refer to as sources is that fiction authors are honest about what they write.

But hey, thanks as usual for admitting, by omission, that you have no response to anything else I wrote in that post. Madalas talaga kayong mga Marcos supporters, ang hilig umiwas sa diretsuhang usapan.

Tell me, naambunan ka na ba ng much-ballyhoed Tallano gold? Pasilip naman diyan!

I do not have to respond to all of your posts, particularly the irrelevant ones. I won't help you hog the thread with your litany of inane and silly arguments.

Just enjoy yourself reading fantasies of Terry Goodkind.

In the meantime, Marcos will continue dominating the presidential race no matter how much "historical" BS and fantasies you dish out.

[IamGrumpy]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:57 PM, camiar said:

I do not have to respond to all of your posts, particularly the irrelevant ones. I won't help you hog the thread with your litany of inane and silly arguments.

Just enjoy yourself reading fantasies of Terry Goodkind.

In the meantime, Marcos will continue dominating the presidential race no matter how much "historical" BS and fantasies you dish out.

Ahem! Marcos is not dominating the presidential race per se because there is no election yet.  What’s dominating the news right now are the discussions on the truthfulness of his claims in his public resume and that other issue on the disqualification complaint against him. As for the surveys, he MAYBE leading at the moment depending on who is issuing the numbers. Fact is these numbers can be skewed depending on so many factors.  Remember the last presidential election, wasn’t it Grace Poe who was leading all contenders but came up a miserable 3rd or 4th when the last ballot was counted.  I’ve been through so many presidents now and I can speak based on my lifelong experiences (born early 60s).  I will not argue with you on what you think you know and understand about life during the Marcos regime. All I can say is it not a pleasant life during that time. 

[camiar]

13 hours ago, IamGrumpy said:

Ahem! Marcos is not dominating the presidential race per se because there is no election yet.  What’s dominating the news right now are the discussions on the truthfulness of his claims in his public resume and that other issue on the disqualification complaint against him. As for the surveys, he MAYBE leading at the moment depending on who is issuing the numbers. Fact is these numbers can be skewed depending on so many factors.  Remember the last presidential election, wasn’t it Grace Poe who was leading all contenders but came up a miserable 3rd or 4th when the last ballot was counted.  I’ve been through so many presidents now and I can speak based on my lifelong experiences (born early 60s).  I will not argue with you on what you think you know and understand about life during the Marcos regime. All I can say is it not a pleasant life during that time. 

Hanggang ngayon nasa denial stage pa rin kayo.

Voters' preference for BBM rose from 20% to 40% by the time he filed his candidacy. Then up again to 50% after the BBM-Sara tandem was announced. 

Recently, informal surveys shows the effects of BBM-Sara caravans and awareness sorties bringing preference to at least 60%.

Pulse-Asia and SWS seem to be holding back their December survey results. Survey analysts speculate it could be because they have to re-validate the results because pro-BBM preference is too high at more than 70% while Leni's numbers went from 20% down to 10% !!!

[IamGrumpy]

Umm deny what? Apologies but I can only speak for myself.

im not privy to where you are getting your numbers. In my experience survey numbers can always be skewed. I’ve done some little research and came across a summary of surveys done by Manila Bulletin. In some of those polls BBM came out the leader while in other cases it was either Leni or Isko. What’s probably impressive is the fact that in the other poll surveys that BBM did not lead he was always a close second. I didn’t see any 82% figure if I may say. 

So there you have it. There’s no denying here but actual poll figures printed by Manila Bulletin. You can check their website if you want to verify. A simple rejoinder, surveys doesn’t make a President. From now till the last ballot is counted a lot of things CAN, MAY and DO change. Let’s see who will sit in the fabled palace of Malacanan by then.

For now congratulations to BBM for being elected as the next Philippines president via poll surveys.😊😊😊

[JonKartero]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:13 PM, IamGrumpy said:

Umm deny what? Apologies but I can only speak for myself.

im not privy to where you are getting your numbers. In my experience survey numbers can always be skewed. I’ve done some little research and came across a summary of surveys done by Manila Bulletin. In some of those polls BBM came out the leader while in other cases it was either Leni or Isko. What’s probably impressive is the fact that in the other poll surveys that BBM did not lead he was always a close second. I didn’t see any 82% figure if I may say. 

So there you have it. There’s no denying here but actual poll figures printed by Manila Bulletin. You can check their website if you want to verify. A simple rejoinder, surveys doesn’t make a President. From now till the last ballot is counted a lot of things CAN, MAY and DO change. Let’s see who will sit in the fabled palace of Malacanan by then.

For now congratulations to BBM for being elected as the next Philippines president via poll surveys.😊😊😊

Recent history has shown that the front runner throughout October-February/March isn't always the winner nga naman. Villar and Poe come to mind. Some people are *ahem* too excited about survey results.

[camiar]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:13 PM, IamGrumpy said:

Umm deny what? Apologies but I can only speak for myself.

im not privy to where you are getting your numbers. In my experience survey numbers can always be skewed. I’ve done some little research and came across a summary of surveys done by Manila Bulletin. In some of those polls BBM came out the leader while in other cases it was either Leni or Isko. What’s probably impressive is the fact that in the other poll surveys that BBM did not lead he was always a close second. I didn’t see any 82% figure if I may say. 

So there you have it. There’s no denying here but actual poll figures printed by Manila Bulletin. You can check their website if you want to verify. A simple rejoinder, surveys doesn’t make a President. From now till the last ballot is counted a lot of things CAN, MAY and DO change. Let’s see who will sit in the fabled palace of Malacanan by then.

For now congratulations to BBM for being elected as the next Philippines president via poll surveys.😊😊😊

 

9 hours ago, JonKartero said:

Recent history has shown that the front runner throughout October-February/March isn't always the winner nga naman. Villar and Poe come to mind. Some people are *ahem* too excited about survey results.

Let me give you a hint. Don't just look at the numbers, which obviously point to strong dominating trend in voter preference.

Look further into the statistical analysis. What's the percentage of the undecided?  How much of the undecided does Leni's camp et al have to get to their side to make up the difference? 

And you're only looking at the market votes, which, as surveys indicate, is already at least 60% pro-BBM/Sara.

Once the command votes (the votes influenced by the local political machineries) are factored in, it's done. Only covert intervention by foreign superpower(s) can derail the popular mandate. And you think BBM/Du30 camps don't know how to counter that?

[JonKartero]

Even Publicius data (which is inherently ??? due to their use of "purposive sampling") shows a decrease of around 5% preference for Marcos and an equivalent increase for Robredo. All other candidates are have statistically negligible movement. It's a question of sustainability. 

"Only covert intervention by foreign superpower(s) can derail the popular mandate." Uh, sure, if you say so.

" And you think BBM/Du30 camps don't know how to counter that?" Bold of you to assume that they are in fact on the same page. Then again your comment was made before Duterte and Go withdrew their respective candidacies. I'm sure you'll find a way to spin it and make it something positive for Marcos and Inday, so please go right on ahead.

[lee sawyer]

On 12/12/2021 at 11:34 PM, JonKartero said:

Recent history has shown that the front runner throughout October-February/March isn't always the winner nga naman. Villar and Poe come to mind. Some people are *ahem* too excited about survey results.

Speaking of recent history, has there been a presidential candidate who had a commanding lead like BBM's this early? 

[plug]

Nang natapos ang term ni Abnoy natunaw din ang yellow kaya wala na rin. Mga basang papel na lang. Ang naiwan ay ang katotohanan na sila ang nagpalayas sa diktador. Bakit nga naman siya at kanyang pamilya ay palalayasin sa palasyong kanyang ipinagawa. Litong lito at wala sa matinong pagiisip kaya hindi niya akalain na sa Hawaii siya dinala. Kaya itong anak magtatangkang mabalik sa palasyong ipinagawa ng kanyang ama. History may repeats itself.

[lee sawyer]

I guess some people have a warped version of history. 😂