Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[camiar]

 

1. Reference to PCGG abolition during Aquino's time?

2. Name one property sequestered by the PCGG that has lost value over time. Also, companies cannot be sequestered, as they are juridical persons and are neither real nor personal property.

3. Proof that the value of PCGG recoveries are merely bloated figures? Preferably with credible, verifiable sources.

4.Again, read Republic v. Sandiganbayan. G.R. No. 152154. The scheme by which Marcos utilized cronies to hide ill-gotten wealth is well-documented and supported by evidence on public record. What about you? What credible, verifiable proof do you have that the Marcos wealth was legally amassed?

One property that has rotted and lost its value? Marami yan.

 

Baseco Shipyard. Properties of Herdis Group. Summa kumagai, Usiphil, Puerto Azul. Palace in the Sky in Tagaytay, etc....

 

It's obvious you didn't even know the properties and assets linked by Cory government to the Marcoses but they cannot prove in court. All they did was to let the assets go idle and rot.

 

All you have are press releases of the yellow propaganda.

[jc44 - RETIRED]

At least now, you are admitting that cant answer the questions I asked. That is not my problem. That is your problem. You challengef my post then vitiate it convincingly. Haha! Why would I prove something which you allege? Hilarious.

 

You misunderstood. You asked for proof. The proof is in the records of the PCGG and the HRVCB. I *could* ask for copies of the documents you want, but then I'd need a lot of time and resources, neither of which I have, and then I'd need to send it to you, which entails you providing a physical address for me to send it - which of course you'd never provide.

 

OTOH, you are disinterested in exerting effort yourself, even after being informed of where all this evidence is located.

It isn't a matter of not having evidence to respond to your question. It's a matter of you being too lazy to see for yourself the proof that exists, and me being unwilling to devote time and resources to support your laziness.

[will robie]

You misunderstood. You asked for proof. The proof is in the records of the PCGG and the HRVCB. I *could* ask for copies of the documents you want, but then I'd need a lot of time and resources, neither of which I have, and then I'd need to send it to you, which entails you providing a physical address for me to send it - which of course you'd never provide.

 

OTOH, you are disinterested in exerting effort yourself, even after being informed of where all this evidence is located.

 

It isn't a matter of not having evidence to respond to your question. It's a matter of you being too lazy to see for yourself the proof that exists, and me being unwilling to devote time and resources to support your laziness.

Yes, I am asking for proof and it seems the best thing you could do is make a lame excuse that the records are in the PCGG and HVRB and tell me I am lazy. You challenge my post and you tell me I am lazy. Hahaha! Nice try. Didn't it ever occur to you that you are the lazy one because you are unwilling to show proof? Remember, you challenged my post so you have the burden of proof but the best you can do is make a feeble excuse and an ad hominem. Edited August 23, 2018 by will robie

[uchi]

John Carter,

kahit anong sabihin at pagpapaliwanag gawin mo tol

naka "Marcos pa rin mga ulol" mode yan.... sayang lang effort ahaha

[will robie]

John Carter,

kahit anong sabihin at pagpapaliwanag gawin mo tol

naka "Marcos pa rin mga ulol" mode yan.... sayang lang effort ahaha

Kasi sinabi mo? Edited August 23, 2018 by will robie

[jc44 - RETIRED]

One property that has rotted and lost its value? Marami yan.

 

Baseco Shipyard. Properties of Herdis Group. Summa kumagai, Usiphil, Puerto Azul. Palace in the Sky in Tagaytay, etc....

 

It's obvious you didn't even know the properties and assets linked by Cory government to the Marcoses but they cannot prove in court. All they did was to let the assets go idle and rot.

 

All you have are press releases of the yellow propaganda.

 

Re: Baseco - see G.R. No. 75885 May 27, 1987.

 

Re: Herdis (which includes Usiphil, bakit doble-doble yung nilalagay mo?) - see G.R. Nos. 169823-24, September 11, 2013.

 

Re: Puerto Azul: Sequestration orders were issued but were never implemented. In 2002 the Sandiganbayan lifted the orders. All recent mainstream literature on Puerto Azul indicates that its decay was due to factors unrelated to the sequestration attempt.

 

Re: Palace in the Sky - oddly I couldn't find any record of this being sequestered. Maybe because it was public property to begin with? In any case it is a public park and houses one of PAGASA's doppler radar facilities.

 

Re: Summa Kumagai, there appears to be no record of SKI ever being subject to a sequestration order. If you could provide a link that would be great.

 

~ ~ ~

 

It's cute that you say "yellow propaganda" as if it automatically makes you right, but then offer no shred of proof to back your own claims. So where is the proof that the Marcos wealth was lawfully earned? And why was such proof never offered in the Republic v. Sandiganbayan case?

[juan t]

Kasi sinabi mo?

 

Di lang si uchi, pati si Lee Kuan Yew sinabi niya na "Marcos parin ulol mode kayo" - but in a nicer way.

 

[juan t]

 

It's cute that you say "yellow propaganda" as if it automatically makes you right, but then offer no shred of proof to back your own claims. So where is the proof that the Marcos wealth was lawfully earned? And why was such proof never offered in the Republic v. Sandiganbayan case?

 

Naku wala kang maaasahan na credible sources jan kay Camiar. Puro imbento lang yan. Ask him for sources puro "I cant reveal my sources" or "I dont spoon feed" makukuha mo jan.

[will robie]

 

Di lang si uchi, pati si Lee Kuan Yew sinabi niya na "Marcos parin ulol mode kayo" - but in a nicer way.

 

Yeah, sure, He can say what he wants to say but he never led a nation that has 7,100 islands. His nation is only as big as Metro Manila. So yeah, his opinion regarding Marcos is beyond reproach.

 

Nothing has been proven and this guy talked from 2,400 kilometers away. I would respect his opinion if he ran a country that is 300,000 square kilometers and proved the alleged pillaging.

Edited August 26, 2018 by will robie

[will robie]

 

It's cute that you say "yellow propaganda" as if it automatically makes you right, but then offer no shred of proof to back your own claims. So where is the proof that the Marcos wealth was lawfully earned? And why was such proof never offered in the Republic v. Sandiganbayan case?

You're the one alleging. You prove it.

[jc44 - RETIRED]

You're the one alleging. You prove it.

 

Wrong. I am showing you cases where it was *proven* that Marcoses amassed ill-gotten wealth.

 

You and that other fellow seem to insist otherwise.

 

Since you *allege* that the Marcoses amassed wealth legally and legitimately, then it is *your* burden to prove your claim.

 

[will robie]

 

Wrong. I am showing you cases where it was *proven* that Marcoses amassed ill-gotten wealth.

 

You and that other fellow seem to insist otherwise.

 

Since you *allege* that the Marcoses amassed wealth legally and legitimately, then it is *your* burden to prove your claim.

 

 

Again, answer the three questions if you wanna go back to that topic. Why would I prove something which you challenged? Haha! Another feeble attempt to make me answer something which you challenged.

[camiar]

 

Re: Baseco - see G.R. No. 75885 May 27, 1987.

 

Re: Herdis (which includes Usiphil, bakit doble-doble yung nilalagay mo?) - see G.R. Nos. 169823-24, September 11, 2013.

 

Re: Puerto Azul: Sequestration orders were issued but were never implemented. In 2002 the Sandiganbayan lifted the orders. All recent mainstream literature on Puerto Azul indicates that its decay was due to factors unrelated to the sequestration attempt.

 

Re: Palace in the Sky - oddly I couldn't find any record of this being sequestered. Maybe because it was public property to begin with? In any case it is a public park and houses one of PAGASA's doppler radar facilities.

 

Re: Summa Kumagai, there appears to be no record of SKI ever being subject to a sequestration order. If you could provide a link that would be great.

 

~ ~ ~

 

It's cute that you say "yellow propaganda" as if it automatically makes you right, but then offer no shred of proof to back your own claims. So where is the proof that the Marcos wealth was lawfully earned? And why was such proof never offered in the Republic v. Sandiganbayan case?

 

Wala lahat yang mga references mo. Sa yo na rin nanggaling na Sandigan Bayan lifted the sequestration on some of them because they cannot prove their claim.

 

They cannot prove ownership. The fact remains that those properties are still in limbo and continue to rot.

 

The Cory government let hundreds of millions of dollars worth investments go idle and rot just to pursue her personal vendetta against the Marcoses.

 

Bataan Shipyard & Engineering Co, used to be a showcase for our Heavy Industry and Shipbuilding. The facilities has since decayed due to disuse. Lote na lang ang may value.

Palace in the Sky used to be a prime residential property. It could have been converted into a 5-star resort hotel. Nakita mo na ba itsura nito ngayon? Nanlilimahid.

 

Have you seen those properties with your own eyes? I have.

 

Halos lahat bulok na. Pero ang declared value, as if brand new pa ang mga facilities.

 

Kung makikita mo yang mga yan, manghihinayang ka talaga sa mga nabubulok na building and equipment.

 

Puro internet propaganda press release lang kasi ang nakikita mo.

[jc44 - RETIRED]

Again, answer the three questions if you wanna go back to that topic. Why would I prove something which you challenged? Haha! Another feeble attempt to make me answer something which you challenged.

 

 

I already did, if you bothered to backread.

 

Why are you so hesitant to provide proof when asked?

 

Wala lahat yang mga references mo. Sa yo na rin nanggaling na Sandigan Bayan lifted the sequestration on some of them because they cannot prove their claim.

 

They cannot prove ownership. The fact remains that those properties are still in limbo and continue to rot.

 

The Cory government let hundreds of millions of dollars worth investments go idle and rot just to pursue her personal vendetta against the Marcoses.

 

Bataan Shipyard & Engineering Co, used to be a showcase for our Heavy Industry and Shipbuilding. The facilities has since decayed due to disuse. Lote na lang ang may value.

 

Palace in the Sky used to be a prime residential property. It could have been converted into a 5-star resort hotel. Nakita mo na ba itsura nito ngayon? Nanlilimahid.

 

Have you seen those properties with your own eyes? I have.

 

Halos lahat bulok na. Pero ang declared value, as if brand new pa ang mga facilities.

 

Kung makikita mo yang mga yan, manghihinayang ka talaga sa mga nabubulok na building and equipment.

 

Puro internet propaganda press release lang kasi ang nakikita mo.

Seeing the property with your own eyes (which I also have) is one thing.

 

Referring to official court documents that detail the circumstances of the properties: another thing entirely. Oddly you dismiss them as “wala” and yet they are the official public record. And since you seem to agree with the Courts when it comes to their rulings, aurely you also agree with their factual findings?

 

Same question as with the Will fellow: why are you so hesitant to provide proof when asked?

[will robie]

 

 

I already did, if you bothered to backread.

 

Why are you so hesitant to provide proof when asked?

You have not answered my questions. Why would I provide proof when it is you who is alleging? Paulit-ulit ka lang.

Edited August 28, 2018 by will robie