South China/West Philippine Sea

[Larry]

No argument there about that carrier or that the chinese military tech may not be at par with that of the US now. But remember, the chinese are already throwing their weight around in its asian maritime disputes even without new war toys. And notice that uncle sam's naval battlegroups are nowhere in sight. Doesn't really inspire confidence that the US and its justice league friends will throw down the next time china wants to build a hotel for its soldiers in the disputed islands.

 

The USS Reagan will soon replace the USS George Washington in its post in Yokosuka. It's one of the more capable carrier strike groups in the US, cited as the most combat efficient carrier four times. The US has said that it needs the most capable ships to be forward deployed as part of a rebalancing strategy, which includes moving the USS Theodore Roosevelt to the west coast from Norfolk, for quicker deployment across the Pacific. So they have one Carrier strike group ready to be anywhere in the south and east china sea in a matter of hours, plus one more carrier group ready to cross the Pacific at a moment's notice.

 

I take this as a sign that America is not taking China's moves lightly, pointing their biggest deterrents right at China. So yeah there's a big chance that the US will move against China should it come to that. As I said, any move by China is a serious threat to the current balance, and America will do all it can to contain it, whether it be in our interests or not.

 

Arguing the MDT is moot at this point, they will move not because of face or anything else, they will move because it will be a disaster for them not to.

[Larry]

Is this command structure patterned after their forefathers? I mean the Ancient Chinese.

 

It very well could be, but I think it's more due to the fact that they're an army that doesn't get to fight. Meritocracies usually happens in organizations that are actually doing something, the group's activities provide the data that you need to qualify promotions, this dude did this, so he gets that and so on.

 

If you organization is idle, there's really nothing to gauge a person's actual contribution to the group and promote him based on that. Sure during idle times you can promote based on organizational skills or personality, but you're not basing decisions on your group's core competence, which is, in this case, actual combat. So you go for another way to promote.

 

or it could be that's the asian way, how many times have you seen "oh kunin mo na lang tong anak ni gan'to, magaling yun"?

[hit05]

Correct. The last remaining superpower wouldn't want to be perceived as a wimp.

If the NPA was a superpower that is probably the case. The ANTI-FILIPINO armed rebellion is busy creating an image of brutal and inhuman movement consistent with the original models of socialism it wants to imitate.

 

In contrast the US military sent teen superstar Justin Beaver to give a free show to Filipino victims of calamity. They gave vital food and water supples and even indirectly exposed the administration for neglect forcing top officials to offer a free show of charity and concern.

 

Increasingly, Filipinos are realizing who the real enemies are. The signs are written on the wall as the week long event of the Black Nazarene attracted tens of millions of devotees - the numbers of volunteers that the NPA would want to corner in the event they take over a non-performing government patterned in the fashion of Nationalist China walking out of Beijing and handing power to their communist partners under the leadership of Mao.

[Larry]

If the NPA was a superpower that is probably the case. The ANTI-FILIPINO armed rebellion is busy creating an image of brutal and inhuman movement consistent with the original models of socialism it wants to imitate.

 

In contrast the US military sent teen superstar Justin Beaver to give a free show to Filipino victims of calamity. They gave vital food and water supples and even indirectly exposed the administration for neglect forcing top officials to offer a free show of charity and concern.

 

Increasingly, Filipinos are realizing who the real enemies are. The signs are written on the wall as the week long event of the Black Nazarene attracted tens of millions of devotees - the numbers of volunteers that the NPA would want to corner in the event they take over a non-performing government patterned in the fashion of Nationalist China walking out of Beijing and handing power to their communist partners under the leadership of Mao.

 

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/263/866/403.gif

[boibastos]

Yes, you are correct but, like I said, these guys are pushing the envelope as far as they can until the US tells them to quit it or face the consequences. Correct me if I'm wrong but, historically, Democrats have been doves while Republicans are, generally, hawks. I think China knows this that's why it seized the opportunity. The only Democrat I observed who seems to be leaning towards being a hawk is Hillary Clinton. I think if W was still the POTUS, he would have warned China. I mean in W''s time, the Chinese weren't really this aggressive in terms of seizing islands and dictating terms over those islands.

 

The chinese are apparently stronger economically and militarily now than they were during W's time so maybe it's more of the timing than the latter's policies that kept them relatively quiet. I agree that the chinese are pushing to see what they can get away with before the US threatens to bring out the stick. But my concern is they can get away with a whole lot where we are concerned as we have next to nothing to defend our interests in our dispute with them.

 

I suppose the question is, at what point will the US act and what will they do? Say for example, a huge deposit of oil is found in the area we are claiming and the chinese start building structures and sending people to secure/exploit it. The chinese have never listened to our bitching about how this should be settled by maritime law, doubt they'll listen to us then. Will the US then send its military and risk a shooting war, or will they just allow the chinese to benefit at our expense?

[boibastos]

The USS Reagan will soon replace the USS George Washington in its post in Yokosuka. It's one of the more capable carrier strike groups in the US, cited as the most combat efficient carrier four times. The US has said that it needs the most capable ships to be forward deployed as part of a rebalancing strategy, which includes moving the USS Theodore Roosevelt to the west coast from Norfolk, for quicker deployment across the Pacific. So they have one Carrier strike group ready to be anywhere in the south and east china sea in a matter of hours, plus one more carrier group ready to cross the Pacific at a moment's notice.

 

I take this as a sign that America is not taking China's moves lightly, pointing their biggest deterrents right at China. So yeah there's a big chance that the US will move against China should it come to that. As I said, any move by China is a serious threat to the current balance, and America will do all it can to contain it, whether it be in our interests or not.

 

Arguing the MDT is moot at this point, they will move not because of face or anything else, they will move because it will be a disaster for them not to.

 

Good to know that the US has its guns nearby if needed. But i hope that the US will act sooner rather than later should the chinese get it into their heads to take whatever they want from us and act even more aggressively.

[Larry]

Will the US then send its military and risk a shooting war, or will they just allow the chinese to benefit at our expense?

 

IMO

 

it's in the best interests of the US to intervene.

 

1) they can't allow China to just move in by force and do what it wants. It sets a precedent and tips the balance towards the Chinese. They can't risk having a fast growing superpower like that move unchecked. It makes china stronger and bolder, as it weakens US influence in the region.

 

2) the promise of oil in that area will bring the Americans as it always had anywhere else in the world. It's better for them to have that oil controlled by a friendly (i.e. us) and sold back to them at a cheap price (or they could control it and sell it to us at a cheap price) than have a potential rival have control over that and use it to strengthen their own position. Again it will only serve China and weaken the US position.

 

Take note though, that US action doesn't automatically mean a shooting war. It can take the form of international pressure, or diplomatic sanctions, or just the threat of a carrier strike group a few miles away from your coastline (they can deploy two and can easily have at least 2 more at the ready). Just look at what they did at that ADIZ in the east china sea, china moves to stake a claim, the US says "f#&k you, I double dare you to back up that claim" and flies two planes unannounced and unchallenged.

 

China has to realize that we're no longer in the 1800s where unclaimed lands can be easily claimed without upsetting the global status quo.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Larry

[boibastos]

 

In contrast the US military sent teen superstar Justin Beaver to give a free show to Filipino victims of calamity. They gave vital food and water supples and even indirectly exposed the administration for neglect forcing top officials to offer a free show of charity and concern.

 

 

If you can't say no, then switch to sniffing a milder solvent.

[hit05]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/263/866/403.gif

Why are you answering what should have been another's reply?

 

The Americans will never come to the rescue in a way that entrapped them just like in Vietnam. They know the real enemies are in control of this government and the NPA is still high on the priority list in the war on terror.

 

This site is dumbly propagating the ascent of China for years, then all of a sudden your groupie make believes they are pro Americans overnight? Don't you read your posts? Even if the site administrators whitewash that issue and remove incriminatory posts, the site cannot be removed from the WWW that operates 24/7 under a redundant system where the MTC server disks get cloned a hundred times in other places of the world network.

[hit05]

If you can't say no, then switch to sniffing a milder solvent.

 

 

Dude hwag mo bantayan ang posts ko dahil wala akong barya pambayad. Public site eto and not paid parking.

[Larry]

Why are you answering what should have been another's reply?

 

The Americans will never come to the rescue in a way that entrapped them just like in Vietnam. They know the real enemies are in control of this government and the NPA is still high on the priority list in the war on terror.

 

This site is dumbly propagating the ascent of China for years, then all of a sudden your groupie make believes they are pro Americans overnight? Don't you read your posts? Even if the site administrators whitewash that issue and remove incriminatory posts, the site cannot be removed from the WWW that operates 24/7 under a redundant system where the MTC server disks get cloned a hundred times in other places of the world network.

 

http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131026212427/trollpasta/images/4/4a/Cool_story_bro_tell_it_again.jpg

[hit05]

Maybe Larry realized a huge slip and posted a racial slur of a PICTURE LINK catastrophic to the pro American cause he want to project at MTC. You can't FAKE it 100% of the time I guess. Just think how the US President would react when the groupie pretending to be pro USA are publicly discriminating the skin color of majority of Filipinos.

Edited January 16, 2014 by hit05

[Larry]

Maybe Larry realized a huge slip and posted a racial slur of a PICTURE LINK catastrophic to the pro American cause he want to project at MTC. You can't FAKE it 100% of the time I guess. Just think how the US President would react when the groupie pretending to be pro USA are publicly discriminating the skin color of majority of Filipinos.

 

http://brakeobama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/obama-wins-reelection-memes.jpg

[dos8dos]

I agree with you that the Chinese are stronger economically and militarily than during W's time but that fact notwithstanding, the Chinese military would need a prayer to actually beat its US counterpart.

 

To answer your question and in my opinion, the US will intervene as a last resort should the Chinese push it further by sinking ships and shooting down planes in its self-proclaimed "no fly" zone. One international incident would be enough, in my opinion, to make the US deploy a super carrier in the area where the incident took place.

 

we all need to PRAY should china & the US engage each other directly because of the possibility of an escalation short of a nuclear exchange is not remote, that will be ARMAGEDDON

 

both side will be cautious to get embroiled in this conflict to avert the unthinkable the sight of a mushroom cloud rising over each others horizon

 

it will be china pitted against US allies (eg japan, taiwan, philippines) with the US relegated to logistical support

 

MDT is often misconstrued as fighting an allies war, realistically its simply coming to aid an ally in case of an attack. under this circumstances (looming doom) US versus china the best thing to meet US obligation is to aid an ally logistically at first

 

this premise is limited in case of an armed conflict with the disputed islands alone

Edited January 16, 2014 by dos8dos

[Larry]

we all need to PRAY should china & the US engage each other directly because of the possibility of an escalation short of a nuclear exchange is not remote, that will be ARMAGEDDON

 

both side will be cautious to get embroiled in this conflict to avert the unthinkable the sight of a mushroom cloud rising over each others horizon

 

it will be china pitted against US allies (eg japan, taiwan, philippines) with the US relegated to logistical support

 

MDT is often misconstrued as fighting an allies war, realistically its simply coming to aid an ally in case of an attack. under this circumstances (looming doom) US versus china the best thing to meet US obligation is to aid an ally logistically at first

 

this premise is limited in case of an armed conflict with the disputed islands alone

 

a direct conflict between china and the US would draw lines in the sand

 

NATO automatically goes with the US

Syria, Iran, et. al. will go China, Russia probably will too

NoKor will go Chinese

Pakistan will go Chinese

India will go where Pakistan isn't

 

so yeah it might lead to a global conflict. Both China and the US (when they intervene) will have to maneouver this gingerly. Both countries know the consequences of going nuclear. But some of the allied countries might not care. Pakistan and India for instance, those two have just been chomping at the bit for a reason to launch. Something as big as this might be it.