tigertrap Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 one word: PRICE. the TA-50 costs around 28M dollars and as i have said, if those countries would play sta. claus, meaning they would offer them at bargain price. take note also that the Tornado is not a light fighter aircraft like the TA-50. they are full-sized fighter-bombers. Cost is indeed the main consideration, but we need a platform operable for the next 15 years, how many years and flying hours do you think the Tornado's have, assuming they play St.Nick and give us a very very bargain price we looked at the 2nd hand/ refurbished options YAKs, Kfirs, F16s and even F5s to name a few and it would be practical to get a new platform with our intended time frame/budget and skill gap. I prefer we get the best, heck even an F22 raptor but we cant and if we still pursue the F16 route in the near future then the next best thing would be a TA or FA50 Quote Link to comment
wolflove_bigdawg Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Cost is indeed the main consideration, but we need a platform operable for the next 15 years, how many years and flying hours do you think the Tornado's have, assuming they play St.Nick and give us a very very bargain price we looked at the 2nd hand/ refurbished options YAKs, Kfirs, F16s and even F5s to name a few and it would be practical to get a new platform with our intended time frame/budget and skill gap. I prefer we get the best, heck even an F22 raptor but we cant and if we still pursue the F16 route in the near future then the next best thing would be a TA or FA50 Exactly. because we can't afford those F-xx's, not only for their price but also for the maintenance cost. i believe the contract for the TA50's have been signed already and that partial delivery will be late 2013. Aircrafts if properly maintained can be operational for 50 years so 1975 + 50 = 2025. Actually, Saudi Arabia is still using the Tornados. The only reason Italy and GB are retiring these is the same reason rich people change cars every 3 years; because they can. They are moving up to Typhoon Eurofighters. Quote Link to comment
tigertrap Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Exactly. because we can't afford those F-xx's, not only for their price but also for the maintenance cost. i believe the contract for the TA50's have been signed already and that partial delivery will be late 2013. Aircrafts if properly maintained can be operational for 50 years so 1975 + 50 = 2025. Actually, Saudi Arabia is still using the Tornados. The only reason Italy and GB are retiring these is the same reason rich people change cars every 3 years; because they can. They are moving up to Typhoon Eurofighters. I agree, and we still need a real Fighters/interceptors with long legs, This is the main issue I dont like with the TA50s, its short leg. Speaking of the Saudis, they are still fully utilizing its F5s in its inventory, goes to show that if particular platform is well handled it can last really long. Yup, they are moving up to the EuroFighters, I think even the Dutch are planning to sell some from of its Wing Assets. Quote Link to comment
heatseeker0714 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) I agree, and we still need a real Fighters/interceptors with long legs, This is the main issue I dont like with the TA50s, its short leg. Speaking of the Saudis, they are still fully utilizing its F5s in its inventory, goes to show that if particular platform is well handled it can last really long. Yup, they are moving up to the EuroFighters, I think even the Dutch are planning to sell some from of its Wing Assets. 1.) The reason it has short legs is because it is primarily a Lead In Fighter TRAINER and a Light Combat Aircraft in its secondary role. Aircraft with primary roles as trainers don't usually have long legs. 2.) The main reason the Saudi's F-5s are still flying and ours are not is that aside from being lavishly maintained, they have other fighters in significant numbers to send up in the air to patrol their airspace, while we do not. In a nutshell, an aircraft's airframe can only take X number of hours of flying time before it is deemed unsafe by the manufacturer and or air force to use. Cost is indeed the main consideration, but we need a platform operable for the next 15 years, how many years and flying hours do you think the Tornado's have, assuming they play St.Nick and give us a very very bargain price we looked at the 2nd hand/ refurbished options YAKs, Kfirs, F16s and even F5s to name a few and it would be practical to get a new platform with our intended time frame/budget and skill gap. I prefer we get the best, heck even an F22 raptor but we cant and if we still pursue the F16 route in the near future then the next best thing would be a TA or FA50 Even if we had the dough to buy, operate and maintain F-22s, it's still a pipedream... US Federal Law currently forbids the EXPORT of F-22s to other countries. The only country who can buy, operate and maintain F-22s aside from the US in significant numbers and whom the US would probably agree to sell said bird is Japan, but because of the said law, they had to make do with F-35s. That's why the Japan Air Self Defense Force ordered the F-35. But knowing them Sushi Eaters, they would modify their F-35s the same way the Israelis do and will have a much more potent version than what the US and other F-35 Programme Partner Countries will be flying. Edited August 27, 2012 by TheSmilingBandit Quote Link to comment
wolflove_bigdawg Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 even if we can buy the f22 and the US govt. allows its sale, malabo pa rin satin yan. baka mahilo mga piloto natin sa instrumentation, speed and G-force nyan. we are talking of 9G's here. ilang G's ba ineexert ng tora-tora? hehehe Quote Link to comment
tk421 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'm not a weapons or planes expert, but I read in an article that when it comes to dogfights, the F-22 loses. It's main strength is being stealthy at the cost of being agile. If a battle does happen in that area, it will most likely be dogfights. Quote Link to comment
dos8dos Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) really, you would rather ally with russia than the US? pardon the language but russia would f*ck our smooth lil bottom soon as we turned our back. russia have GOOD (not so expensive) DEFENSIVE weapons, and its not just russia that i mentioned because its in the BEST INTEREST of our nation to have more source of DEFENSIVE armaments Even if we had the dough to buy, operate and maintain F-22s, it's still a pipedream... US Federal Law currently forbids the EXPORT of F-22s to other countries. The only country who can buy, operate and maintain F-22s aside from the US in significant numbers and whom the US would probably agree to sell said bird is Japan, but because of the said law, they had to make do with F-35s. That's why the Japan Air Self Defense Force ordered the F-35. But knowing them Sushi Eaters, they would modify their F-35s the same way the Israelis do and will have a much more potent version than what the US and other F-35 Programme Partner Countries will be flying. japan developed its own 5th gen jet fighter after the US turned down their request to acquire F-22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Ucjp9qJOg&feature=youtube_gdata_player russia will soon export its 5th gen jet fighter (sukhoi T50 PAK FA), this could change the US foreign policy on F-22 as soon as north korea gets their stealth fighter from russia really, you would rather ally with russia than the US? pardon the language but russia would f*ck our smooth lil bottom soon as we turned our back. add to that the FACT that US FOREIGN POLICY PROHIBITS sale of STATE of ART armaments to countries with hideous HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS even if they are LONG TIME ALLY such as the PHILIPPINES Edited August 27, 2012 by TheSmilingBandit Quote Link to comment
heatseeker0714 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 add to that the FACT that US FOREIGN POLICY PROHIBITS sale of STATE of ART armaments to countries with hideous HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS even if they are LONG TIME ALLY such as the PHILIPPINES Saudi Arabia... Honor Killings galore and their primitive and crummy outlook on women... Pakistan... Same with the Saudis plus the open Secret that their CIA, the ISI supports groups considered terrorists by the State Dept. Iran before the Fall of the Shah... Egypt... Hosni Mubarak's 30 year rule ring any bells??? Iraq during the 1980-88 war with Iran... this one takes the cake... Saddam was their poster boy of "Stability" in the 80s... and a lot more... hideous HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS my Novo Ecijano @$$... Ayaw lang talaga nilang makayanan natin tumayo totally sa sarili nating paa... Quote Link to comment
wolflove_bigdawg Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 para palang sniper ang f-22. pang long-range. pero syempre puputok pa rin pag nagkalapitan. Quote Link to comment
dos8dos Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Saudi Arabia... Honor Killings galore and their primitive and crummy outlook on women... Pakistan... Same with the Saudis plus the open Secret that their CIA, the ISI supports groups considered terrorists by the State Dept. Iran before the Fall of the Shah... Egypt... Hosni Mubarak's 30 year rule ring any bells??? Iraq during the 1980-88 war with Iran... this one takes the cake... Saddam was their poster boy of "Stability" in the 80s... and a lot more... hideous HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS my Novo Ecijano @$$... Ayaw lang talaga nilang makayanan natin tumayo totally sa sarili nating paa... sometimes even with RIGHTEOUS america, PRINCIPLES are set aside by the LUSTER of BLACK GOLD. the americans know that the arabs have dismal HUMAN RIGHTS record but would be willing to look the other way specially for WEALTHY arab countries like saudi bcoz if they dont sell to the saudis the russians stand to BENEFIT BY STANDING IN YOUR OWN 2 FEET, YOU OUGHT NOT TO EXPECT A FREE LUNCH if we can afford to BUY & for whatever reason the US govt wont sell, its only LOGICAL to go buy from another arms supplier OR build your own & shoulder ALL the COST associated with R&D (raw materials, KNOW HOW) Edited August 25, 2012 by dos8dos Quote Link to comment
Ignatum Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Saudi Arabia... Honor Killings galore and their primitive and crummy outlook on women... Pakistan... Same with the Saudis plus the open Secret that their CIA, the ISI supports groups considered terrorists by the State Dept. Iran before the Fall of the Shah... Egypt... Hosni Mubarak's 30 year rule ring any bells??? Iraq during the 1980-88 war with Iran... this one takes the cake... Saddam was their poster boy of "Stability" in the 80s... and a lot more... hideous HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS my Novo Ecijano @$... Ayaw lang talaga nilang makayanan natin tumayo totally sa sarili nating paa... Correct! About doon s Iraq-Ian war, Si Saddam ang bata nila para mabawi ang Iran, kawawa nga ang Iraq dahil ginyera sila ng kano dahil ayaw nilang ibigay ang oil nila s US noong 90's Human Rights Violation? Ay oo talamak ang kano dyan more than 10,000 afghan civillians n ang pinapatay nila and 60,000 s Iraq from 2003-2011, salamat s wikileaks. Iran before the fall of Shah, they assassinated Mossadegh because he refused the offer of ECONOMIC HITMEN to give his oil to the global elitists thats why the JACKALS(CIA) took him out Even before Mossadegh, the South American nations already experienced assassinations on their presidents during the 50's Same thing happened to Saddam, the only reason why military ang hinarap niya dahil hindi siya kaya ng mga JACKALS(CIA). 3 steps on how the global elitists kills a nation 1.) ECONOMIC HITMEN These guys will bribe presidents & bureaucrats to get a nation's natural resources or to forcefully subjugate it to join globalization. 2.) JACKALS(CIA) If step 1 doesn't work, the assassins will take place to overthrow(usually assassinations) a good president and replace it with a yes-man(puppet) president. This happened in Libya, Gaddafi's death. 3.) MILITARY If step 2 isn't good enough, then they send in the military under the guise of INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE. This is what happened to Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran & Syria are next. Ganda talaga pag nalalaman m ang totoong nangyayari, kaysa s puro Spratly at usapang "Anong eroplano ang bibilhin?". Quote Link to comment
dos8dos Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) para palang sniper ang f-22. pang long-range. pero syempre puputok pa rin pag nagkalapitan. the PROPONENTS of f22 in pentagon advocates the BVR (beyond visual range), first to see the enemy gets to k*ll doctrine, wherein the USAF pilots will rely heavily on the RADAR & long range missile system on board the plane. in addition f22 radar system is augmented by AWACS radar system, thats the SECRET of most BVR kills of f14, f15, f16 against russian made fighters. together with its stealthy feature, at a distance f22 is LESS visible to enemy radar at a CERTAIN angle more to the side wherein the wedge angled shape of the fuselage was designed to reflect electromagnetic energy away from the source (enemy radar), that makes f22 a deadly machine at a distance. but the concept of reflecting electromagnetic wave away from the source doesnt hold TRUE on TOP & BOTTOM (widest area) of the aircraft. in the TOP & BOTTOM angle the use of composite materials is expected to absorb electromagnetic energy for f22 to come undetected. however, a good radar from enemy fighters with LOOK-DOWN-SHOOT-DOWN capability can detect f22 if they fly higher than f22. the notion of INVISIBLE to radar is not TRUE as proven by the incident when serbia shot down an f117 stealth bomber during the balkan war in the 90s. Edited August 25, 2012 by dos8dos Quote Link to comment
heatseeker0714 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) sometimes even with RIGHTEOUS america, PRINCIPLES are set aside by the LUSTER of BLACK GOLD. the americans know that the arabs have dismal HUMAN RIGHTS record but would be willing to look the other way specially for WEALTHY arab countries like saudi bcoz if they dont sell to the saudis the russians stand to BENEFIT BY STANDING IN YOUR OWN 2 FEET, 1.) YOU OUGHT NOT TO EXPECT A FREE LUNCH if we can afford to BUY & for whatever reason the US govt wont sell, its only LOGICAL 2.) to go buy from another arms supplier OR build your own & shoulder ALL the COST associated with R&D (raw materials, KNOW HOW) 1.) Bakit? Sino ba nagsabi na ang Pinoy always nag-eexpect ng Free Lunch????? Tayo na nga nag-alok na Bibilin natin yung F-16s nila, hindi naman natin hinihingi yon. 2.) Hence our planned PURCHASES (again, no FREE LUNCH) of the following; 2 Maestrale Class Frigates from Italy2 Minnerva Class Offshore Patrol Vessels from Italy12 T/A-50s from South Korea6 (already delivered and already in use by the Phil. Army) ACV-300 Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicles with more planned from Turkey8 (with 4 already delivered and being used by PAF, last 4 to be delivered this November) Sokol Combat Utility Helicopters from PZL Swidnik of Poland which is majority owned by Augusta Westland, a WESTERN EUROPEAN company. Whoever said na nakatali Major Defence Acquisitions natin sa US??? Non-US made major weapons systems are welcome in the AFP, just don't peddle those worthless EASTERN EUROPEAN JUNK. Makakamura ka nga sa sticker price pero sa after sales and logistics support ka naman papatayin. the PROPONENTS of f22 in pentagon advocates the BVR (beyond visual range), first to see the enemy gets to k*ll doctrine, wherein the USAF pilots will rely heavily on the RADAR & long range missile system on board the plane. in addition f22 radar system is augmented by AWACS radar system, thats the SECRET of most BVR kills of f14, f15, f16 against russian made fighters. together with its stealthy feature, at a distance f22 is LESS visible to enemy radar at a CERTAIN angle more to the side wherein the wedge angled shape of the fuselage was designed to reflect electromagnetic energy away from the source (enemy radar), that makes f22 a deadly machine at a distance. but the concept of reflecting electromagnetic wave away from the source doesnt hold TRUE on TOP & BOTTOM (widest area) of the aircraft. in the TOP & BOTTOM angle the use of composite materials is expected to absorb electromagnetic energy for f22 to come undetected. however, a good radar from enemy fighters with LOOK-DOWN-SHOOT-DOWN capability can detect f22 if they fly higher than f22. the notion of INVISIBLE to radar is not TRUE as proven by the incident when serbia shot down an f117 stealth bomber during the balkan war in the 90s. Check your facts. Stealth technology on US aircraft were never touted to make the plane INVISIBLE per se... It only makes them HARDER TO DETECT ON RADAR... Big Difference between the 2. Edited August 27, 2012 by TheSmilingBandit Quote Link to comment
heatseeker0714 Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 What do you folks think about the reopening of Subic Bay and Clark Air Base as an active installation? I recalled sometime during the Bush (W) administration that it was proposed and I think it was GMA and her administration that abruptly shut it down. Now from what I understand there are talks between NoyNoy entertaining that idea. I know Subic Bay can hold the entire Pacific fleet within itself and would be strategically closer to respond to the Southwestern Asian nations. It would certainly deter the aforementioned country(s) mentioned in this topic; the Spratly Island claims would definitely not be an issue. So what say you all? I personally think I would reenlist if Clark AB were to be reinstated. I would love to be stationed where family is originally from and would not mind taking the fight to defend a country that doesn't need to be imposed on. *Please excuse if this topic is already being discussed in another sub forum. No can do... too many nationalistic @$$h0l3s in the House of Representatives and the Senate... That's why the Americans secretly supported the failed MOA-AD with the BJE a couple of years ago... it would be easier for them to get access from the BJE than the Philippine Legislature had that BJE ABOMINATION succeeded in hoodwinking the Filipino People... Quote Link to comment
dungeonbaby Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Saudi Arabia... Honor Killings galore and their primitive and crummy outlook on women... Pakistan... Same with the Saudis plus the open Secret that their CIA, the ISI supports groups considered terrorists by the State Dept. Iran before the Fall of the Shah... Egypt... Hosni Mubarak's 30 year rule ring any bells??? Iraq during the 1980-88 war with Iran... this one takes the cake... Saddam was their poster boy of "Stability" in the 80s... and a lot more... hideous HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS my Novo Ecijano @$... Ayaw lang talaga nilang makayanan natin tumayo totally sa sarili nating paa... di kaya dahil di lang talaga tayo ganon kahalaga sa kanila? by the way, quite amusing to see you pointing out others' misogynistic practices. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.