South China/West Philippine Sea

[fatchubs]

If I'm not mistaken there are several instances that the RP side seek "clarifications" with regards to the MDT leading to the "reassurance". I don't see that as a sign that even the gov't thinks it will be automatic.

Maybe there are really naives out there!

Edited June 10, 2012 by fatchubs

[dungeonbaby]

the thread's back.

 

almost two months later, we are still wondering

 

is China annexing the Kalayaan islands one by one? what are we doing about it?

Edited August 3, 2012 by dungeonbaby

[heatseeker0714]

the thread's back.

 

almost two months later, we are still wondering

 

is China annexing the Kalayaan islands one by one? what are we doing about it?

 

the thread's back.

 

Yup... hope no more juvenile @s$h0l3s out there to hi-jack the thread for their own personal pissing contest.

 

is China annexing the Kalayaan islands one by one?

 

yup... no questions asked...

 

what are we doing about it?

 

making all the diplomatic noise and raising all the ruckus we could in the international stage while slowly and surely shifting our ill-equipped AFP from Internal Security Operations which was dominated by the Army funding wise to Territorial Defense which will be Air Force and Navy dominated funding wise...

 

The DND already forwarded its recommendation to Abnoy to buy 12 Golden Eagle LIFT/SAA from South Korea. (might want to read this http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2012/08/dnd-officially-recommends-t-50.html)

 

SecDef Volts Gazmin also already said during the regular DND Presscon last Thursday (Yehey!) that we'll be acquiring 2 Maestrale Class Frigates from the Italian Marina Militare worth Php11.7BILLION Said 2 ships will be handed over to us around November 2013 and will come with ALL of their weapons and electronics systems INTACT upon turnover to the Philippine Navy... the following are the Maestrale's Sensor and Weapons suite...;

 

one radar air and surface search RAN10S (160 km)

a radar of navigation and surface search SPN703

one RTN-10X for gun and Aspide control

two smaller RTN-20X for the DARDO systems

VDS DE 1164 sonar

DE1160B hull mounted sonar

 

Electronic countermeasures compose the following;

 

two SCLAR rocket-launchers that are capable of launching chaff, flare, and HE rockets up to ten kilometers

 

for the weapons;

 

4 × TESEO Mk-2 anti-ship missiles

1 × octuple Aspide SAM launchers (with 16 reloads)

1 × Otobreda 127 mm gun

2 × Oto Melara Twin 40L70 DARDO Close In Weapon Systems

2 × 533 mm torpedo tubes

2 × 324 mm triple torpedo tubes

 

it can also carry up to 2 Anti-Submarine Warfare or General Purpose Helicopters...

[jopoc]

the two frigates to be bought by the Ph from Italy are both their junk.

para naman tayong magbabakal nyan.

paano kaya yung presyuhan for the frigates, per kilo?

[heatseeker0714]

the two frigates to be bought by the Ph from Italy are both their junk.

para naman tayong magbabakal nyan.

paano kaya yung presyuhan for the frigates, per kilo?

 

the BRP Rajah Humabon which used to be the Philippine Navy's Flagship for decades was built in 1943, served in World War II and has a U-boat k*ll to her credit (see how antiquated she is).

 

the BRP Gregorio Del Pilar which replaced the BRP Rajah Humabon last year as the current Philippine Navy Flagship and it's incoming sistership the BRP Ramon Alcaraz was built in the mid 60's and underwent a Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization upgrade in the mid 80's was given to us for FREE (the cost of the ship is free, the Php400Million we paid them was for the scheduled overhaul of the ship prior to turnover by the Americans, the 90 day training of the 96 Officers and Crew in the US on board another Hamilton ship the USCG BOUTWELL and ashore in their Coast Guard Base, the board and lodging of said 96 PN Personnel and Integrated Logistics Support of the ship for 2 years.) sans the Close In Weapons Systems and Air Search Radar is a considerable leap for the Philippine Navy technology wise, it being the FIRST PN ship with a CODAG Engine and room for Anti-Ship Missiles, Close In Weapons Systems, Air Search Radar, Sonars and Torpedoes without the ship needing to undergo a MAJOR REFIT since said ships already carried said weapons and sensor systems before but was stripped by the US Coast Guard when the USSR fell because of the so called "Peace Dividend" (the Harpoon Anti-ship Missiles, Sonars and Torpedoes) and due to Financial Practicalities (the Close In Weapons Systems of the Del Pilar and Alcaraz was stripped by the USCG because they will install it on their new National Security Class Ships which would replace the Del Pilar and Alcaraz in their fleet and the Air Search Radar as spares for their remaining Hamilton Class Cutters)

 

Now the 2 incoming Italian Navy Maestrale Class Frigates the F570 Maestrale which was laid down in 1978 and commissioned in the Italian navy in 1982 and the F571 Grecale which was laid down in 1979 and commissioned in 1983 by the Italian Navy that would be turned over to us with ALL of their Weapons and Sensor Suites INTACT may already be "JUNK" to you but let me list down the reasons why it would never be "JUNK" to the Philippine Navy and people like me.

 

1.) It was retired by the Italians ahead of schedule not because it's already "Laspag", but because of the deep financial s*1th0le them Pasta Eaters currently found themselves in. They wouldn't let go of those ships easily if it weren't for their money problems.

 

2.) The list of the Weapons and Sensor Suites those 2 ships would come with would greatly expand the capabilities of the Philippine Navy. As of this writing, we currently have the distinction of the ONLY navy in Southeast Asia that has no MISSILE CAPABILITY... Zero, Nada, Zilch, Bokya.

 

3.) The Italian Navy doesn't have that much commitments as compared to the US Navy and Coast Guard, hence, their ships are less "LASPAG" as compared to those coming from Uncle Sam...

 

4.) Those 2 Italian Navy Frigates was a good deal due to "The Great European Military Hardware FIRESALE"... their economies are falling apart and there is no more Soviet Union for them to contend with... this is the "Peace Dividend" European version which the Americans experienced in the early 90's... We better get all the stuff we can get our hands on since our gas revenues are already up and running and we have a President who's really into modernizing the AFP...

 

5.) It may not be "BRAND SPANKING NEW" and not exactly "CUTTING EDGE" by year 2000s standards, but it is definitely "HI-TECH" compared to the Del Pilar, Alcaraz and Humabon...

Edited August 4, 2012 by heatseeker0714

[wolflove_bigdawg]

i like the maestrale frigates. though not brand-new, they are much better equipped and much 'newer' than the second-hands from our 'ally' the US. moreover, it is multi-purpose; anti-submarine, anti-aircraft and anti-surface.

 

at least, we are moving forward. ganun talaga, medyo kapos sa budget eh.

[jopoc]

i see your points guys.... kung bibili nga naman tayo nang mga sandatang gagamitin lang na target practice ng mga kalaban, lalo na ng tsina, eh di yung bulok na rin ang bilhin natin, diba?

 

 

maybe i am just sick and tired of this "mabuti nang me bulok/substandard na gamit kesa sa wala" attitude.

Edited August 5, 2012 by jopoc

[warrpierce]

I believe that no matter what upgrades we buy to our navy, our country will not survive a full scale military conflict with China without the support of the US or it's allies. The Chinese already had an advantage in the Quantity of their soldiers, the quality of their weapons is also better than ours. But the new additions to our military will at least help patrol our border more efficiently, although I am sure that our military will not last long in a conventional war. Maybe we can adopt guerilla tactics just like the Vietnamese in the Vietnam war and in our very own Philippine American War.

[heatseeker0714]

i see your points guys.... kung bibili nga naman tayo nang mga sandatang gagamitin lang na target practice ng mga kalaban, lalo na ng tsina, eh di yung bulok na rin ang bilhin natin, diba?

 

 

maybe i am just sick and tired of this "mabuti nang me bulok/substandard na gamit kesa sa wala" attitude.

 

nobody can blame you for feeling that way... what with the prostitution of the AFP by the politicians and some corrupt officers themselves in exchange for Stars on their shoulder boards... aren't you even surprised that there's still some folks like me in this forum???

 

well, the reality naman kasi is we can never match China on a 1:1 basis... our military planners did the next best thing, upgrade our Armed Forces to the point that instead of being swatted like a bunch of flies in less than 24 hours, we can make them Bleed a little and delay them till our allies arrive... (This may sound defeatist, but i'm a realist... big difference between the two... )

 

The AFP with the current Philippine economy can never match them ChiComs toe to toe... The most that we can hope for is to be a Credible "TRIP WIRE" force till them Joes arrive... if they move fast enough...

[jopoc]

I believe that no matter what upgrades we buy to our navy, our country will not survive a full scale military conflict with China without the support of the US or it's allies. The Chinese already had an advantage in the Quantity of their soldiers, the quality of their weapons is also better than ours. But the new additions to our military will at least help patrol our border more efficiently, although I am sure that our military will not last long in a conventional war. Maybe we can adopt guerilla tactics just like the Vietnamese in the Vietnam war and in our very own Philippine American War.

 

cant imagine using guerilla tactics in the middle of the sea.

 

 

 

 

nobody can blame you for feeling that way... what with the prostitution of the AFP by the politicians and some corrupt officers themselves in exchange for Stars on their shoulder boards... aren't you even surprised that there's still some folks like me in this forum???

 

well, the reality naman kasi is we can never match China on a 1:1 basis... our military planners did the next best thing, upgrade our Armed Forces to the point that instead of being swatted like a bunch of flies in less than 24 hours, we can make them Bleed a little and delay them till our allies arrive... (This may sound defeatist, but i'm a realist... big difference between the two... )

 

The AFP with the current Philippine economy can never match them ChiComs toe to toe... The most that we can hope for is to be a Credible "TRIP WIRE" force till them Joes arrive... if they move fast enough...

 

 

maybe we should, instead of buying scrap metal, start our own R&D. i do not see any battle or war coming anytime soon. and if we fight with these junk we will lose anyway. i feel that we must start a long term project by making our own effective weapons.

 

i do not think we lack intelligent and skilled people who can do wonders for us.

 

if Pnoy is true with curbing corruption in the military, that wont be difficult, right?

[heatseeker0714]

cant imagine using guerilla tactics in the middle of the sea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

maybe we should, instead of buying scrap metal, start our own R&D. i do not see any battle or war coming anytime soon. and if we fight with these junk we will lose anyway. i feel that we must start a long term project by making our own effective weapons.

 

i do not think we lack intelligent and skilled people who can do wonders for us.

 

if Pnoy is true with curbing corruption in the military, that wont be difficult, right?

 

i do not think we lack intelligent and skilled people who can do wonders for us.

 

nope... we have a large pool of highly talented of technicians and scientists in the government... problem is, an "Asylum of Lunatics, Thieves and Narcissists masquerading as REPRESENTATIVES of the People" are holding office in Batasan... about 435 of them plus the 23 odd @s$h0l3s of one color or another holding office in Pasay City... them 435 and 23 "STATESMEN and WOMEN" have the power of the purse... you get the picture...

 

start our own R&D

 

meron na dati nyan panahon ni Marcos... he forsaw na kasi na the Joes won't be here forever... eh kaso "Saint" Cory came to power... ayon with her Lefty Leaning Executive Secretary Joker Arroyo and his other Commie pals pinatay yung programa...

 

if Pnoy is true with curbing corruption in the military, that wont be difficult, right?

 

Difficult pa din Sir... Political corruption rears its ugly head in the promotion of Army, Marine and Air Force Lieutenant Colonels to the next higher rank of Colonel and Navy Commander to the next higher rank of Navy Captain in the Commission on Appointments in Tongress... According to the "Saint" Cory Constitution in my own words, "Tongressional approval through the Commission on Appointments are needed by Army, Air Force and Marine Officers to be promoted to the rank of Colonel, Brigadier General, Major General, Lieutenant General and General and Navy Officers to be promoted to the rank of Captain, Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and Admiral..."

 

eh di syempre sobrang kiss ass na yung ibang Officers na gusto ma-promote bago mag-retire... how do you think that Congressman "Kangkong" got so rich and powerful??? yung "Kangkong" na gustong magpatanim sa Senado pero natalo na napunta ng LWUA pero nasipa naman dahil dun sa anomalya sa bankgo na tinulungan ng LWUA???

 

Pag-uuwi si Cong "Kangkong" dun sa distrito nya sa South libre sakay sa helicopter ng air force... pag meron gusto ipaluwas na troso or kung ano pa man anjan naman yung BRP Bacolod City or BRP Dagupan City ng Navy...

 

Ang gusto nga ng AFP yung Service Commanders na lang ng Army, Navy and Air Force saka Chief of Staff ng AFP ang dumaan sa CA, yan yung input ng AFP kung magkakaroon man ng Cha-Cha ng di na masalahula ng husto yung AFP...

 

Nai-insecure na naman yung mga deputang beho.... palibhasa walang matinong bansa na kumakampi sa kanila sa isue na to...

 

Beijing twits Tokyo on plan to boost Manila’s maritime security

 

http://manilastandardtoday.com/2012/08/01/beijing-twits-tokyo-on-plan-to-boost-manilas-maritime-security/

Edited August 27, 2012 by TheSmilingBandit

[jopoc]

i do not think we lack intelligent and skilled people who can do wonders for us.

 

nope... we have a large pool of highly talented of technicians and scientists in the government... problem is, an "Asylum of Lunatics, Thieves and Narcissists masquerading as REPRESENTATIVES of the People" are holding office in Batasan... about 435 of them plus the 23 odd @s$h0l3s of one color or another holding office in Pasay City... them 435 and 23 "STATESMEN and WOMEN" have the power of the purse... you get the picture...

 

start our own R&D

 

meron na dati nyan panahon ni Marcos... he forsaw na kasi na the Joes won't be here forever... eh kaso "Saint" Cory came to power... ayon with her Lefty Leaning Executive Secretary Joker Arroyo and his other Commie pals pinatay yung programa...

 

if Pnoy is true with curbing corruption in the military, that wont be difficult, right?

 

Difficult pa din Sir... Political corruption rears its ugly head in the promotion of Army, Marine and Air Force Lieutenant Colonels to the next higher rank of Colonel and Navy Commander to the next higher rank of Navy Captain in the Commission on Appointments in Tongress... According to the "Saint" Cory Constitution in my own words, "Tongressional approval through the Commission on Appointments are needed by Army, Air Force and Marine Officers to be promoted to the rank of Colonel, Brigadier General, Major General, Lieutenant General and General and Navy Officers to be promoted to the rank of Captain, Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and Admiral..."

 

eh di syempre sobrang kiss ass na yung ibang Officers na gusto ma-promote bago mag-retire... how do you think that Congressman "Kangkong" got so rich and powerful??? yung "Kangkong" na gustong magpatanim sa Senado pero natalo na napunta ng LWUA pero nasipa naman dahil dun sa anomalya sa bankgo na tinulungan ng LWUA???

 

Pag-uuwi si Cong "Kangkong" dun sa distrito nya sa South libre sakay sa helicopter ng air force... pag meron gusto ipaluwas na troso or kung ano pa man anjan naman yung BRP Bacolod City or BRP Dagupan City ng Navy...

 

Ang gusto nga ng AFP yung Service Commanders na lang ng Army, Navy and Air Force saka Chief of Staff ng AFP ang dumaan sa CA, yan yung input ng AFP kung magkakaroon man ng Cha-Cha ng di na masalahula ng husto yung AFP...

 

 

so i guess with or without those 2 old frigates, we are bound to be doomed anyway.

so why buy those junk? para lang masabi na meron?

[heatseeker0714]

so i guess with or without those 2 old frigates, we are bound to be doomed anyway.

so why buy those junk? para lang masabi na meron?

 

To UPGRADE the skill set of our Navy men and women in using more sophisticated equipment... Them ChiComs aren't the only concern of our boys and girls in blue, maritime terrorism as we have all seen, is evolving quite exponentially...

 

Plus the mere fact na hindi habang buhay mahirap ang Pilipinas at hindi habang buhay mayaman yang mga ChiComs na yan...

 

At one point in our country, the ordinary Juan will reach the inevitable wall and start doing a lot of things right... with our growing economy (kuno), we should also upgrade our Armed Forces to protect, and who knows, project our interests in the region...

 

Look at Japan, along with their economy, they invested heavily in their Armed Forces albeit on a Defensive Posture... Alam mo kahit Defensive lang ang postura ng Japan Self Defense Forces, them Chicoms respect them kaya hindi gaano binabalasubas ng Chicoms ang Japan sa dispute nila sa Senkaku Islands kasi pag napikon yang mga apo ni Yamashita at binago yung constitution nila to allow themselves to have an OFFENSIVE Capability, alam nung mga ChiComs na yan na kaya silang pataubin ng Japan...

 

Lastly, like I said, to be a Credible "TRIP WIRE" Force to buy time for them Joes to get here and make them BLEED before we go down... If you were given a choice, how would you like to go down personally, yung ikaw lang or meron ka man lang maisama sa mga deputang papatay sayo???

[jopoc]

 

 

Plus the mere fact na hindi habang buhay mahirap ang Pilipinas at hindi habang buhay mayaman yang mga ChiComs na yan...

 

 

 

that is if you live for 200 years or more.

[heatseeker0714]

that is if you live for 200 years or more.

 

we all know that unless mankind through its scientists and researchers unlocks the "God" Molecule in our bodies, you and i won't live to 200 years...

 

ang sakin lang Sir eh "Foresight"... wag na para sakin, para na lang sa mga kaapo-apohan ko na lang na susunod na mga mamamayan ng bansang Pilipinas...