Team Pilipinas Basketball

[Guest eljuego]

"TAKING ADVANTAGE" ... you hit it right in saying this. Teams get naturalized players because they wanted to gain some advantage since if playing with one makes the team stronger thus greater is the chance to compete for the title. Jordan and Lebanon and for a time Japan I believe played with one since they could not or have not been Asian champs in the past decade or two at least. RP before when it was lording it over in the Asian region and even being competitive with the world didn't bother to use one. It changed in the 80's when China has overtaken our local talents. The case of Germany and Russia is the same, they are not the favorites to win without one and in fact are not even with one.

 

Therefore as you said, "FIBA rules state that a country can have a naturalized player", it did not say that a country MUST have one. And IMHO, why would you still want to take advantage of this when you know for a fact that you are already better than the rest. Remember, one country incur some cost to list up a naturalized player. For instance, why don't the RP get a naturalized player for the SEA basketball games? Well, I think its pretty much obvious, man for man talent-wise we are better off. Considering you are claiming that we are also better than the top rank team in Asia now then IMHO we don't need one.

 

As for Hakeem, your claim that he was naturalized specifically to allow him to play in 1996 is a personal opinion and not a FACT unless you can prove otherwise. Hakeen has lived in the US for several years already when his request for naturalization was granted in 1993. He still resides in the US despite no longer active playing ball. If the US would want to take advantage, then they should and could have done it earlier than '96.

Talent-wise, we are but you see there is also a height factor and you can't teach height. Huh? Akeem getting naturalized to play for the Team USA is a fact and not an opinion. Where have you been? Why would you even worry about the cost of maitaining a naturalized player? That's the SBP's problem, not yours.

[Guest eljuego]

Sir I am referring to your analogy that since Toroman was able to turn things around for Iran then he could also do the same for the RP.

 

In the same way for Caoch K, he turned things around for the USA when things weren't going as expected after 2000. He did to USA what you expect Coach Rajo to do for RP-Gilas. Coach K did it with a bunch of proven stars in the 2008 Olympics and did it again this time with a bunch of upcoming young guns (B-deem team) during the 2010 Fiba World Championship.

 

BTW, for the record, you did not mention coach K in your post and neither did I said you mentioned it. I'm just wondering why you're saying so.

 

Guess some things never change. WELCOME BACK!!!

You were the one who mentioned Coach K in the discussion. Not me. This is about the SG team and not team USA. As I said, the talent level of RP is still better than Iran so it's just a matter of international exposure and of course proper coaching from Toroman. Malayo yata yung liniparan ng topic. Some things never change? Welcome back? I don't quite follow.

Edited October 22, 2010 by eljuego

[CELTS]

Talent-wise, we are but you see there is also a height factor and you can't teach height. Huh? Akeem getting naturalized to play for the Team USA is a fact and not an opinion. Where have you been? Why would you even worry about the cost of maitaining a naturalized player? That's the SBP's problem, not yours.

 

 

well just to refresh you a bit, in your earlier post you said that we have Big Guys that can bang in the inside. YOu mentioned Greg, Japeth and Asi and Marcus. So why bother to naturalize Marcus when we have Marlou who is also as tall? Having claimed that we don't have any problem talent wise and saying you can't teach height then you are actually having the best of both worlds with Marlou.

 

But then again, the RP players have always been undersized even during our glory days. Somehow we're able to find ways to win then.

 

As far as Akeem well just show me some clippings if you can to prove your cause that it's a FACT.

Edited October 22, 2010 by CELTS

[Guest eljuego]

Did you even bother to consider that Aquino is a has-been? It wouldn't hurt to add another big man in Douthit. Maybe you should be the one who should show me clippings since you're the doubter. Then maybe I'll believe you. I'm just saying what I know that he was naturalized so the USA got him to already augment an already strong Olympic team.

[CELTS]

I know, he is and same with Asi. Considering they are has beens then their talent have somehow been eroded by time. So what you're claiming that we are best talent-wise man for man is NOT true. Now there are also upcoming players who's as tall. Why don't you even consider them if you said that we don't have problem talent-wise.

 

But anyway Marcus is probably out of the Asiad which is about a month away. By then we'll know if we are indeed the best talent in basketball in Asia with or without him tutal it would not hurt lang naman pala if he's added. Therefore it is more of a luxury than a necessity.

Edited October 22, 2010 by CELTS

[Guest eljuego]

I know, he is and same with Asi. Considering they are has beens then their talent have somehow been eroded by time. So what you're claiming that we are best talent-wise man for man is true. Now there are also upcoming players who's as tall. Why don't you even consider them if you said that we don't have problem talent-wise.

I don't think Coach K would consider Shaq on the next USA team. Why don't you write Toroman a letter and perhaps he would get Aquino.

[CELTS]

I don't think Coach K would consider Shaq on the next USA team. Why don't you write Toroman a letter and perhaps he would get Aquino.

 

Ofcourse Coack K has better alternatives talent-wise ... is it the same scenario for Toroman if you discount the idea of a naturalized candidate playing for us?

[Guest eljuego]

Ofcourse Coack K has better alternatives talent-wise ... is it the same scenario for Toroman if you discount the idea of a naturalized candidate playing for us?

We we're talking about Aquino and Asi. What scenario are you talking about?

[CELTS]

Am talking about if Toroman has better "local" alternatives in lieu of Marcus to prove your claim we're better man for man talent-wise... the answer obviously is no. If he has then he and the SBP would not have hired a naturalized player. He's the best BIG MAN available for the team and he's not PINOY! Unless ofcourse you have someone up your sleeves which I don't know. As I said there are lots of player of the same height na PINOY if you just want to satisfy your can't teach height reasoning.

 

Now, as you know Iran has Haddadi and China has Yao and Yi all NBA players and still active. Marcus is not an NBA player in fact a NEVER BEEN.

 

Yes I buy what you said that its not bad to Take Advantage of playing a Naturalized Player but it is because the said guy is better than what you have now. If he's not then there is no advantage at all. Now if you continue to claim that man for man we're better talent-wise then I can't do anything if you want to consider fooling yourself for the rest of your life coz I've shown you we're not anymore.

 

Basketball is a team sports. Your team need not be the best talent-wise in order to win. We just need to be efficient as a unit.

[Guest eljuego]

^As I said, it was a big blow to SG since SG lost a big. We need height. I still believe that talent-wise, RP is better than Iran. I wouldn't say that about China since China has had a couple of players play in the NBA.

[CELTS]

What made you think we're better than Iran talent-wise? Iran also has Haddadi who is an NBA player. We have none.

 

The Philippines is not lacking of tall players. with the claim that we're better talent-wise then it should be easy to replace the loss of Marcus.

 

Given that China's NBA players are not playing and you believe we're better than Iran even with Haddadi, are you saying now that the Asiad GOLD is in the bag??? Why and why not?

Edited October 24, 2010 by CELTS

[Vegasboy32]

What made you think we're better than Iran talent-wise? Iran also has Haddadi who is an NBA player. We have none.

 

The Philippines is not lacking of tall players. with the claim that we're better talent-wise then it should be easy to replace the loss of Marcus.

 

Given that China's NBA players are not playing and you believe we're better than Iran even with Haddadi, are you saying now that the Asiad GOLD is in the bag??? Why and why not?

 

I have to agree on this one. Siguro kung 20 years ago talent wise mas magaling ang RP sa Iran. We have to face the fact na napagiiwanan na tayo. Dati ang top 3 teams sa Asia China, S. Korea, Philippines. Ngayon kahit sa Lebanon, Iran, Jordan at Kazakhstan may talo tayo. I team like Iran has even eclipsed S. Korea. Nakapasok nga sila sa FIBA world championship. Well huling nakapasok ang Pinas dyan 1954 pa at nanalo tayo ng bronze against France. At least nasa Medal list tayo hehehe.

 

Para umasenso ang national team natin. Kelangan gayahin natin ang style ng US or Serbia. Kung titingnan mo ang international game. Hindi nakakapagdominate masyado ang power forward. Usually two small forwards na athletic at may tira sa labas. Kevin Durant played power forward for team USA. Ang problema wala tayong ganoong player sa Pinas. Kahit Fil-Am pa yan. Ok sana si Jay Washington kung may tira lang sa labas.

[Guest eljuego]

What made you think we're better than Iran talent-wise? Iran also has Haddadi who is an NBA player. We have none.

 

The Philippines is not lacking of tall players. with the claim that we're better talent-wise then it should be easy to replace the loss of Marcus.

 

Given that China's NBA players are not playing and you believe we're better than Iran even with Haddadi, are you saying now that the Asiad GOLD is in the bag??? Why and why not?

Do you think, aside from Haddadi, Iran is really better than RP talent-wise?

 

I believe Douthit has been practicing with SG for quite awhile. For you, since you're from the outside looking in, it's easy to replace Douthit but you see, replacing Douthit with a new guy would affect team chemistry. The new guy will have to learn the SG system and it will take awhile before he learns Toroman's system thus if ever SG gets a new guy to replace Douthit now that the Asian Games is nearing, the new guy would be awkward inside the court in the Asian Games since he is still in the process of being integrated in the system.

 

Did I even imply that the Asian gold is in the bag?

Edited October 25, 2010 by eljuego

[CELTS]

Sir Eljuego,

 

I really have no idea if Iran sans Haddadi is better than Gilas man for man. I did hope that you having claimed that we are better than Iran man for man talent-wise, would be able to give me a comprehensive discussion on this issue rather than throw a question back to me.

 

As far as Marcus is concerned, am just thinking that since you said we are better talent-wise then there is no need for him or any naturalized player for that matter. Why bother to "take advantage" if there is really a pure local oozing with talent that can get the job done from the start. Remember, hindi naman si Marcus ang 1st choice natin as NAturalized player candidate. Also note that from the start the mind is set as to tapping a naturalized player for this team to plug in certain holes.

 

Anyway I believe the bottomline here is that Marcus still is the best option available at Center for us. There is no available local player playing the same position that is better than him at this point in time. Comparing Marcus and Haddadi I think it is pretty obvious that Haddadi is the better player now. As such, this is the reason why I don't buy your statement that RP is better than Iran man for man talent-wise kasi sa center position pa lang kita na mas mahina tayo. Unless you could claim that Asi, Greg, Japeth or any other local player out there is better than both Marcus and Haddadi your claim should be a MYTH at this point.

 

 

Sir Vegasboy32,

 

Sabi ko nga ang una dapat nating dapat gawin as a nation is STOP believing that we're still NUMBER 1 since hindi na totoo yun. It will be a humbling experience for us but we have to swallow our pride. Tanggapin na nating nadapa tayo dahil sa ating sariling kagagawan at hindi isisi sa iba na tinulak tayo at nadapa. Pero, ganunpaman, matuto tayong tumayo muli at humakbang kahit paika-ika. Sa pagpupursigi maghihilom din ang mga sugat at balang araw ay muli tayong makakatakbo ng maayos at mamayagpag.

Edited October 26, 2010 by CELTS

[Guest eljuego]

Sir Eljuego,

 

I really have no idea if Iran sans Haddadi is better than Gilas man for man. I did hope that you having claimed that we are better than Iran man for man talent-wise, would be able to give me a comprehensive discussion on this issue rather than throw a question back to me.

 

As far as Marcus is concerned, am just thinking that since you said we are better talent-wise then there is no need for him or any naturalized player for that matter. Why bother to "take advantage" if there is really a pure local oozing with talent that can get the job done from the start. Remember, hindi naman si Marcus ang 1st choice natin as NAturalized player candidate. Also note that from the start the mind is set as to tapping a naturalized player for this team to plug in certain holes.

 

Anyway I believe the bottomline here is that Marcus still is the best option available at Center for us. There is no available local player playing the same position that is better than him at this point in time. Comparing Marcus and Haddadi I think it is pretty obvious that Haddadi is the better player now. As such, this is the reason why I don't buy your statement that RP is better than Iran man for man talent-wise kasi sa center position pa lang kita na mas mahina tayo. Unless you could claim that Asi, Greg, Japeth or any other local player out there is better than both Marcus and Haddadi your claim should be a MYTH at this point.

RP being better than Iran talent-wise is my opinion.

 

Why not take advantage of that rule wherein we can tap and naturalize foreign players to augment SG? What's your reason? Patriotism ba? If SBP could make SG stronger, I'm all for it.

 

If you don't buy my statement, it's up to you. I won't force you to believe my opinion.