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Larry Legend or King James


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#221 will robie

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:21 PM

No matter what your argument is, if Bird helped the Celtics to a winning record, to the Celtics being helpless without him, to MJ not beating him, he didn't make that big of a legacy compared to MJ.

MJ is the greatest player of the 1990s. I won't dispute that. He destroyed every superstar in that era in the playoffs. In the 80s, he was the one getting destroyed year after year. You can't call someone the GOAT when he and his team get destroyed for 7 years. He was lucky that Larry had a bad back. Otherwise, he won't get in the NBA Finals in the 90s. He won 6 titles in an era with no Bird or Jabbar/Magic. Like I said, for me, he is the greatest player in the 1990s. That is indisputable. But him being the greatest of all time? That's quite a stretch. 


MJ changed the way the game is supposed to play, he changed the way the defensive sets are prepared hell, he even changed the way the game is viewed.

If he, indeed, changed the game, why was his team always beaten in the first seven years by the Cs or the Bad Boys? 



#222 will robie

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:23 PM

The 80's popularized the game but MJ made it mainstream and household, when great players enter their prime who are they being compared to?, who was the last great player that was compared to Bird, Dirk?
 

Dirk's game is similar to Bird but in terms of basketball IQ, leadership and competitive ferocity, Dirk does not hold a candle to Larry. Magic and Larry were the reasons the NBA had its renaissance in the 80s. The torch was just passed on to Jordan. 


Edited by will robie, 17 May 2019 - 09:24 PM.


#223 will robie

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:28 PM

MJ is the measuring stick of greatness in the game, the same way Gretzky is to hockey and Brady is to football, you can throw any statistics or situational analysis my way but if you think that Bird made that big of an impact shouldn't he be the one with the signature shoes? or at least being synonymous with the acronym GOAT

I really would like to believe Brady is the GOAT in American Football. The Patriots are my team in the NFL.  However, I could not consider him the GOAT because he did not beat the NY Giants of Eli Manning in two Super Bowl tries. For me, a GOAT is someone who destroys every superstar in his path. MJ never even won a playoff game against Bird.  


Edited by will robie, 17 May 2019 - 10:03 PM.


#224 Legend_Killer

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:50 PM

I really would like to believe Brady is the GOAT in American Football. The Patriots are my team in the NFL.  However, I could not consider him the GOAT because he did not beat the NY Giants of Eli Manning in two Super Bowl tries. For me, a GOAT is someone who destroys every superstar in his path. MJ never even won a playoff game against Bird.


Then your definition of GOAT is wrong, there's no player in modern team sports who absolutely dominated everybody, yes it is synonymous to winning but you can't make the excuse of "no he lost out on those years that's why he's not the GOAT", part of their greatness is overcoming struggles, if MJ came right out of the gate winning left and right less people would have appreciated his greatness, just like Westbrook's statline, part of being GOAT is being able to overcome obstacles, MJ was not a winner in his first few years so he strived and stuck to his team waited for them to develop, that's why LeBron will never be as great like MJ

#225 will robie

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:54 PM

Then your definition of GOAT is wrong, there's no player in modern team sports who absolutely dominated everybody, yes it is synonymous to winning but you can't make the excuse of "no he lost out on those years that's why he's not the GOAT", part of their greatness is overcoming struggles, if MJ came right out of the gate winning left and right less people would have appreciated his greatness, just like Westbrook's statline, part of being GOAT is being able to overcome obstacles, MJ was not a winner in his first few years so he strived and stuck to his team waited for them to develop, that's why LeBron will never be as great like MJ

And yours is right? You say that MJ is the greatest of all time with emphasis of "all time" which includes the 1980s. The last thing I remember about Jordan in the 1980s is his Bulls incessantly got destroyed by the Bucks, Pistons and the Cs. So no, he isn't the greatest of all time. I will concede him being the greatest player of the 1990s but of all time? That's quite a stretch. No matter how you rationalize, the facts that I presented can't be controverted. 


Edited by will robie, 18 May 2019 - 01:54 PM.


#226 Legend_Killer

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:01 PM

And yours is right? You say that MJ is the greatest of all time with emphasis of "all time" which includes the 1980s. The last thing I remember about Jordan in the 1980s is his Bulls incessantly got destroyed by the Bucks, Pistons and the Cs. So no, he isn't the greatest of all time. I will concede him being the greatest player of the 1990s but of all time? That's quite a stretch. No matter how you rationalize, the facts that I presented can't be controverted.


LMAO, if you're talking about all time it includes until today, who is still being talked until today as the GOAT?, if you watch Open Court and they have hosts who are FORMER NBA players not like us who are spectators and they are asked for their Top Ten players of all time Bird doesn't even show up in their list, Shaq was even ahead of him, all of them unanimously placed MJ as number 1, so you can throw all the "stats and facts" all you want even include the 80s in which Bird was in his prime but in the end it's still MJ as GOAT until today

#227 will robie

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 05:21 PM

LMAO, if you're talking about all time it includes until today, who is still being talked until today as the GOAT?, if you watch Open Court and they have hosts who are FORMER NBA players not like us who are spectators and they are asked for their Top Ten players of all time Bird doesn't even show up in their list, Shaq was even ahead of him, all of them unanimously placed MJ as number 1, so you can throw all the "stats and facts" all you want even include the 80s in which Bird was in his prime but in the end it's still MJ as GOAT until today

I am not talking about who is being talked about today as the GOAT. I am talking about Jordan being destroyed time and again in the 1980s. That is their opinion but if you want, I can show you opinions of other players. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but they are not entitled to their own facts. I am not gonna say that Bird is the GOAT but he is ahead of Jordan when it comes to that status. Jordan never beat Bird in the playoffs and that's one fact that Jordan fans tend to overlook. Moreover, he couldn't get past the Pistons or Bucks in the 80s. 


Edited by will robie, 18 May 2019 - 05:24 PM.


#228 Legend_Killer

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 02:14 AM

I am not talking about who is being talked about today as the GOAT. I am talking about Jordan being destroyed time and again in the 1980s. That is their opinion but if you want, I can show you opinions of other players. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but they are not entitled to their own facts. I am not gonna say that Bird is the GOAT but he is ahead of Jordan when it comes to that status. Jordan never beat Bird in the playoffs and that's one fact that Jordan fans tend to overlook. Moreover, he couldn't get past the Pistons or Bucks in the 80s.


Paulit ulit, so just because a prime Bird beat a young MJ so does Thomas and Dumars di na GOAT si MJ?, so sino GOAT sa basketball in your book?

#229 will robie

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 07:23 PM

Paulit ulit, so just because a prime Bird beat a young MJ so does Thomas and Dumars di na GOAT si MJ?, so sino GOAT sa basketball in your book?


Yes, he couldn't possibly be a GOAT because a GOAT, for me, should beat every superstar he played against. He never beat Larry Bird in the playoffs. That is only one of the reasons why I don't consider him the GOAT. As for the other reasons, backread. Bill Russell.

Edited by will robie, 19 May 2019 - 07:52 PM.


#230 robyroll21

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 06:18 PM

there's no Q here, it's LeBron James over Larry BIRD, all around game..



#231 Legend_Killer

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Posted Yesterday, 12:37 PM

Yes, he couldn't possibly be a GOAT because a GOAT, for me, should beat every superstar he played against. He never beat Larry Bird in the playoffs. That is only one of the reasons why I don't consider him the GOAT. As for the other reasons, backread. Bill Russell.


LOL, there's no such player where he destroyed everybody he faces, prime Jordan is the closest to your definition of GOAT, nobody can touch him yet you're out here criticizing his first 5 years in the league, and Bill Russel?, the guy who played when there were only 10 teams in the league

#232 will robie

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Posted Yesterday, 09:30 PM

LOL, there's no such player where he destroyed everybody he faces, prime Jordan is the closest to your definition of GOAT, nobody can touch him yet you're out here criticizing his first 5 years in the league, and Bill Russel?, the guy who played when there were only 10 teams in the league

Really? Bill Russel destroyed every great player in his path. So what are you implying? That a league having ten teams is weak? On the contrary, when the league had 10 teams, talent was concentrated unlike today, with 30 teams, the talent is diluted. With 10 teams, only the creme de la creme can make it to the NBA. 150 players can only make it in the NBA in the 60s. Today, 450 players can make it to the NBA. Jordan is not my choice for GOAT. He is your GOAT. 






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