renothegreat Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 LEBRON JAMES...... Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 @rennon, what are your basis @Nick, athleticism doesn't comprise the whole skill set...Maybe you forgot to read the first page... Anywho I'll just repost... Since we are getting off topic at the other thread: Lebron JamesRegular Season GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPGCareer 689 688 39.8 .484 .331 .747 7.2 6.8 1.7 .8 27.6 PlayOffsCareer 115 115 43.4 .469 .312 .745 8.7 6.7 1.7 1.0 28.5 Larry BirdRegular Season GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPGCareer[17] 897 870 38.4 .496 .376 .886 10.0 6.3 1.7 0.8 24.3 PlayOffsCareer[17] 164 162 42.0 .472 .321 .890 10.3 6.5 1.8 0.9 23.8 Aside from these let's look at the skill sets, for each skill pick who is better:ShootingBall HandlingReboundingPassing (Not limited to assists)StealsBlocksOff Ball MovementOn Ball DefenseOff Ball DefenseSlashingPost UpPhysicality/StrengthJumpingDunking No Intangibles like heart, clutch, leadership, etc. I'll StartShooting BirdBall Handling BirdRebounding BirdPassing(Not just assists) TiedSteals TiedBlocks TiedOff Ball Movement BirdOn Ball Defense LBJOff Ball Defense BirdSlashing LBJPost Up BirdPhysicality/Strength BirdJumping LBJDunking LBJ Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) TO's, touches... I placed bird over james in terms of strength because bird plays mostly inside in defense... he bangs bodies with pfs and cs...he plays pf a lot of times whenever parish or mchale is not on the floor... Edited February 1, 2013 by dfgvan Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Strength:1. strength is not based on physical built...e.g. bradley and pacquiao... who hits harder? who is stronger?vin baker and gilliam? who can back their guards better on the post? 2. does being an offensive option means strength? who is physically stronger? willis or wilkins? 3. does blocking shots from the weak side translate to strength? during the rockets/celtics finals bird was given a part time task to guard olajuwon... that is on ball post up defense... in fairness to james there aren't a lot of post players nowadays so it's hard to compare with that... bird, during the dream team would play 4 or 5 whenever he and pippen are on the floor.. 4. mchale guarded wilkins on the switch... bird guards drj a much stronger slasher than wilkins... Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 1. Olajuwon can back Shaq on the post but it doesn't mean Olajuwon is stronger than Shaq. 2. I was just saying that Larry covered Willis to preserve his energy. When you try to stop a primary scorer, you waste your energy trying to stop him. Remember, Larry was the main scorer of Boston so he also had to score. I never said nor implied that being an offensive option means strength. 3. I'm just saying that James can play the 5 in a small ball line-up. I don't recall a time Larry played the 5 but I remembered him play the 2 in a big line-up featuring Parish, Mchale, Walton, Bird and DJ. That was the game against the Bucks in the 1986 Eastern Conference Finals. 4. Nope, it was really Mchale who guarded Wilkins. I remember in the 1988 Eastern semi-finals, Mchale guarded Wilkins and Bird guarded Willis. i thought you were posting reasons as to why you consider james to be stronger than bird?1. au contraire olajuwon didn't backed up shaq, he used his footwork...2. conditioning and energy do come with strength... based on your parameter then, james was guarding jason terry not dirk nowiski, james was guarding tp and not duncan (all are finals references)...i thought you were posting reasons as to why you consider james to be stronger than bird? that was why you posted that bird wasn't guarding wilkins... 3. yes james CAN... but has he? i really don't want to put what ifs in to consideration... bird played 5... bird, pippen, mullin, mj, stockton... 4. please watch it again... there were switches before wilkins receives the ball... Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Ok. Physical evidence states that James is stronger than Bird. You may have based your judgement on the banging inside but we're talking about strength here. James is 260-270 pounds while Larry is 220-230 pounds. James is definitely more muscular than Bird and the build is really the basis of strength. 1. Perhaps, you should watch replays of the 1995 NBA Finals. Olajuwon backed up Shaq to a certain extent and used his footwork in the paint to score via fall away jumper, hook shot or layup. 2. I was agreeing to your post that Bird guarded opposing power forwards. I'm saying that Bird guarded Willis, instead of Wilkins to preserve his energy. As I said, he's also Boston's main scorer. Normally, a coach would like someone other than his main scorer to guard the other team's main scorer so that your main scorer could concentrate more on scoring instead of stopping the other team's scorer. But, there are also exceptions, Jordan defended the other team's primary scorer. 3. When did Bird play the 5? 4. I watched the 1988 Eastern semis and most of the time, it wasn't Bird guarding Wilkins. 1. he didn't, shaq allowed it until low post... because hakeem was receiving the ball mid post, built is not the basis of strength... an ant can lift alot larger than his size... kidding aside... we are considering basketball so we should consider all that banging inside... the things that happen in the court more than what you see physically... 2. first of all, wala namang jordan issue... natatapos ang conversation pag pinasok na si jordan eh... :P what was james reason before lagi sya napapagod dahil sobrang babad sa paglalaro... conditioning and strength... 3. dream team, i've posted it twice already and posted the lineup when it happened 4. don't just watch one game... watch the whole series... wag mong panuorin yung pataasan ng ihi nung dalawa... early part of that game bantay ni wilkins si bird... Quote Link to comment
bill_262003 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Since we are getting off topic at the other thread: Aside from these let's look at the skill sets, for each skill pick who is better:ShootingBall HandlingReboundingPassing (Not limited to assists)StealsBlocksOff Ball MovementOn Ball DefenseOff Ball DefenseSlashingPost UpPhysicality/StrengthJumpingDunking No Intangibles like heart, clutch, leadership, etc. Shooting : BirdBall Handling : LBJRebounding : BirdPassing : BirdSteals : BirdBlocks : EvenOff Ball Movement : BirdOn Ball Defense : LBJOff Ball Defense : BirdSlashing : LBJPost Up : BirdPhysicality/Strength : LBJJumping : LBJDunking : LBJ Athletically, LBJ will win this one. But skills-wise, Bird has the better skills. He shoots better, he passed better, he rebounds better and his defense is also good. He did all of this even without being gifted with an athletic body. LBJ is good and part of his greatness is in his athleticism. He barrels his way into the paint, he dunks over people and along the way he travels (and gets a way with it) a lot. LBJ gets assist but he doesn't pass better than Bird. Larry Bird is still the better player just by looking at the skills. Now if you add the intangibles. It is Larry Bird by a mile. Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 1. What I know is Olajuwon received the ball in the low post and backed O'Neal down then would either go to his right for the jump hook or spin to his left for the fall away. Most of the time, he uses the dream shake before jumping and shooting either shot. Well, if you think build is not the basis of strength, that's your opinion. Again, just coz Bird was willing to bang inside and James doesn't doesn't mean Bird is stronger than James. Willingness to bang inside and strength are two different things. 2. I'm just saying that Jordan is an exception. 3. Huh? I watched the games of the Dream Team and I don't recall Larry playing center. Why should he? Ewing and Robinson were there. 4. Did you watch the whole series to say that it was Bird guarding Wilkins all throughout the series? Another case in point was against the Pistons. Mchale guarded Dantley and Bird guarded Mahorn. Why? Because Dantley is one of the primary scorers of the Pistons. 1. Olajuwon received it mid post para kung mag slack off si shaq, mag jump shot sya... pagsobra dikit ni shaq, magdadrive sya... any ways diskarte ang ginawa nya hindi na sya tungkol sa strangth... 2. yep Jordan is an exception at sa usapang basketballl pag may nagbanggit na ng pangalan nya tapos na ang debate di ba? 3. there are games na nagtitrip sila sa lineup... watch their elimination game... the 3rd or 4th game i think.... may time dun sa game na ang center ay si bird... 4. for most of that series bird guarded wilkins... ganito brod... you are veering away from the topic already... what is the connection of mchale and bird playing defense as to what i proposed on the initial post...i've given you my position as to why bird is plays stronger than james...please give your validation as to why james plays stronger? on another point it's not the willingness to bang bodies, it's how you receive it... remember the finals vs dallas wherein james drove to the basket, he was checked and then he flopped, hobbling to the sidelines... a foul was called, reviewing the replays it was an obvious flop.... now is that playing strongly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foaPMZxtzx4 Shooting : BirdBall Handling : LBJRebounding : BirdPassing : BirdSteals : BirdBlocks : EvenOff Ball Movement : BirdOn Ball Defense : LBJOff Ball Defense : BirdSlashing : LBJPost Up : BirdPhysicality/Strength : LBJJumping : LBJDunking : LBJ Athletically, LBJ will win this one. But skills-wise, Bird has the better skills. He shoots better, he passed better, he rebounds better and his defense is also good. He did all of this even without being gifted with an athletic body. LBJ is good and part of his greatness is in his athleticism. He barrels his way into the paint, he dunks over people and along the way he travels (and gets a way with it) a lot. LBJ gets assist but he doesn't pass better than Bird. Larry Bird is still the better player just by looking at the skills. Now if you add the intangibles. It is Larry Bird by a mile. thanks for the input Quote Link to comment
fatchubs Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 1359782491[/url]' post='8524112'] 3. I watched the game of the original Dream Team and I don't recall Larry playing center. Hindi ko alam Kung naging incoherent ka sa pagdefend sa sarili mo ... Pero assuming tama yan sinabi mo, aba'y ilan ba ang naging laro ng dream team? Isa Lang kaya "game"? E papaano Kung Hindi sa game na yun naglaro si Bird ng center? 2 Quote Link to comment
Jasonkidd Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Troll alert. Don't feed the dumb vermin. Just make fun of him. He got too humiliated on the Celtics and Lakers thread so he's trying his luck here. Bro bro, nawawala na tyo s topic. were talking about who is better between LBJ and Bird, nagkakaroon na ako ng kakampi a hehehe.. like ive said i am not an LBJ fan, pero i hate to admit that he really is GOOD, pero mukhang may nakita na ako BETTER than LBJ, KD35.. this KID is gonna be somebody someday.. for me i think LBJ is far stronger than Bird. Bird is more fundamental.while LBJ is more of the fancy type of player..still for me i will go with LBJ Quote Link to comment
fatchubs Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 1359782491[/url]' post='8524112'] Don't get me wrong, I grew up idolizing Larry and he will always be my favorite player and I think he's way, way better than James overall but I have to give credit where credit is due. James is stronger than Larry. Strength is only one of the many considerations ....Why don't you just rate them based on the criteria set and prove Bird is really better. Hindi naman siguro mahirap yun. As it is , your bias is showing 1 Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Guys,1. Do not hijack this thread.2. Let's continue with the discussion.3. I may say Bird PLAYS stronger than James, you may say otherwise... now let's look at the other criterion. Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 As I've said no hijacking... Quote Link to comment
dfgvan Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 1986 celtics??? hmmm... maybe you forgot to mention that bill walton was the backup center for the celts back then... Quote Link to comment
Romychua Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 its unfair to compare players from different generations, but its leadership over skills... larry bird wins by a mile.... by LBJ is slowly getting there Quote Link to comment
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