N F L - National Football League

[gift_of_game]

^it's not like we want you to shut up dude. we're not in third grade anymore, anyway.

 

your opinions are yours and if you feel differently, there's not a lot we can do to change that.

 

a whole lot of other people take it the same way, saying there's no space for the mercy rule in pro sports.

 

and really, even as both DH and I disagree with that notion, we respect their right to hold that view.

Edited November 2, 2007 by gift_of_game

[cheeselogger]

^I for one love running up the score against computer-controlled teams in video games.

 

hehehe

 

but IMHO, if I were on the losing end of an actual game, I would never like and want an opponent to rub it in my face when I lose. so conversely, I wouldn't want to run up the score intentionally if and when I'm winning. golden rule baby...

[howard_the_duck]

the only game that matters:

Pats 24

Colts 21

[denimhead]

^it's not like we want you to shut up dude. we're not in third grade anymore, anyway.

 

your opinions are yours and if you feel differently, there's not a lot we can do to change that.

 

a whole lot of other people take it the same way, saying there's no space for the mercy rule in pro sports.

 

and really, even as both DH and I disagree that notion, we respect their right to hold that view.

 

i agree with my main man g0g ... you can say yr opinion and we wont hold it against you. my problem with running up scores and overkill is not bec of the mercy rule notion. Teams that run up the score .. go for it on the fourth down when they are up by 40 points ... even leave the first stringers when they are up by 40 .. in the fourth quarter .. inevitably get other teams mad at them .. i know its not sportsmanlike but... individuals get mad and eventually try to get even .. by all costs .. what if say a third string linebacker purposely hits Tom Brady on the back after a play has been made .. a cheapshot .. yes .. but one that puts Brady on the injured list ... much less ends his career? the other guy might be suspended .. but he knows he has no fuiture in the league.. what does he care about that ... some teams have been known to put up bounties on certain players' heads......

 

is running up the score worth it? i dont think so......

[polok]

any game basta merong DALLAS COWBOYS... sayang talo sila sa PATS.

[denimhead]

the only hyped up game that matters:

Pats 24

Colts 21

[denimhead]

any game basta merong DALLAS COWBOYS... sayang talo sila sa PATS.

and theyre going down to my mothaeffing BIRDS!!!

Edited November 2, 2007 by denimhead

[polok]

i think the pats really held the Colts down... it took a long while before the colts were able to score a TD.

[chukchuck44]

gonna monitor it sa NFL.com na live....delayed naman kasi dito sa atin eh...sobra Solar, kaya hindi na nagtetelevise yata ang ESPN kasi corner nila ang phil market, buti na ibang ASEAN countries nakakapanood...

 

 

GO PATS!

[Metz]

Week 9 Forecasts:

 

SD vs MIN ---> SD

CAR vs TEN ---> TEN

ARI vs TB ---> ARI

WAS vs NYJ ---> WAS

JAC vs NO ---> NO

SF vs ATL ---> SF

CIN vs BUF ---> CIN

DEN vs DET ---> DET

GB vs KC ---> GB

SEA vs CLE ---> CLE

HOU vs OAK ---> OAK

NE vs IND ---> NE

DAL vs PHI ---> DAL

 

MNF:

BAL vs PIT ---> PIT

 

 

 

On Spygate and "running up the score" topic:

 

Spygate: It was wrong to bend/break the rules. They apologized and paid for it. It has not tainted their SuperBowl victories and their current 8-0 record simply because it didn't matter. EXECUTION is the only thing that matters. If you don't execute and do something about what you know, then it doesn't matter. MIAMI knew Brady was going for MOSS, and double covered him, but MOSS still ended up with 2 long bomb passes in the END ZONE against 2 DBs. VRABEL was in for the offense and everybody knew that he is going to catch the TD pass, but WASHINGTON didn't stop it from happening. Ain't it funny.

 

Running up the score: PRO Sports is about DOING WHAT YOUR PAID TO DO. For me, that's what i think the Pats are doing. It is legal and fair. If there's a rule against it, then it's unsportsmanlike and unfair. But since there is none, it is perfectly legal and fair. And right.

 

If a PITCHER suddenly finds himself facing a NO-HITTER by the 6th inning, is it unsportsmanlike if he does continue pitching til he does make the no-hitter or the perfect game? Can the opposing team cry that he was unsportsmanlike?

 

If for example the Bronx Bombers pile up a 12-0 score and batting in the top of the 9th inning, are they supposed to be benched or simply pose in the box and let the strikes come in so as to have respect to the opposing bullpen?

 

If a BOWLER finds that he has already won the game by the 6th frame yet he is on pace for a perfect game of 300 pinfalls, is it unsportsmanlike to go for the perfect game when your opponent is already beaten?

 

Is Roger Federer unsportsmanlike if he beats Rafael Nadal in the finals of the French Open by a score of 6-0, 6-0, 6-0? And when you watch the replays that Roger was even diving for volleys and chasing long balls. How does showing effort to win flawlessly become unsportsmanlike?

 

Should Tiger Woods start hitting bogeys from the 13th hole up to the last when he already clinched the tourney by the 12th hole? or is it unsportsmanlike?

 

DOMINATION in Pro Sports have been documented and well taken. Except now in the NFL, where a cheap shot at Brady is more vindictive than what the Pats are legally doing, which is scoring while they can. The Pats were not against a Div 2 College Football team. They were against Pro Football players and Pro Football teams under the same Salary Cap under the same NFL Rules. I think that is fair enough of a competition. In week 6 they faced an undefeated DALLAS team with the number 1 offense. Last week they were against the #5 Defense and the 5-2 WASHINGTON team. Yet in both games, people said the Pats were unsportsmanlike coz they ran up the score. Ain't those teams supposed to give them a good fight? They couldn't stop the Pats, yet it's the Pats fault that they can't? It's not the job of the Pats to stop, coz they are PAID to go on and play football 60 minutes per game. If they got a problem with that, then they should not be in the NFL. If the going gets tough, the tough gets going.

[cheeselogger]

...

Running up the score: PRO Sports is about DOING WHAT YOUR PAID TO DO. For me, that's what i think the Pats are doing. It is legal and fair. If there's a rule against it, then it's unsportsmanlike and unfair. But since there is none, it is perfectly legal and fair. And right.

 

If a PITCHER suddenly finds himself facing a NO-HITTER by the 6th inning, is it unsportsmanlike if he does continue pitching til he does make the no-hitter or the perfect game? Can the opposing team cry that he was unsportsmanlike?

...

 

it's not running up the score if you're keeping your opponent on not scoring. this example equates to the Pats Def letting for example Washington to score on their possesion every time after they reach the 30+ point lead. not much of a comparison

 

...

If for example the Bronx Bombers pile up a 12-0 score and batting in the top of the 9th inning, are they supposed to be benched or simply pose in the box and let the strikes come in so as to have respect to the opposing bullpen?

...

 

and that is why in baseball teams for example the NYY or even the BoSux replace their starters or hot hitters with pinch hitters/runners once they have a big lead. they don't need to reach the 9th inning to do this, beaning a hitter only needs one pitch...

 

...

If a BOWLER finds that he has already won the game by the 6th frame yet he is on pace for a perfect game of 300 pinfalls, is it unsportsmanlike to go for the perfect game when your opponent is already beaten?

...

 

Bowling is an individual sport that is maybe hard to compare to any team game. you're example is like in golf a person going for a course record when it is still possible. the closest comparison I can do is that the NE Pats were trying to go for a record then it that game. were they after any record for that game only?

 

...

Is Roger Federer unsportsmanlike if he beats Rafael Nadal in the finals of the French Open by a score of 6-0, 6-0, 6-0? And when you watch the replays that Roger was even diving for volleys and chasing long balls. How does showing effort to win flawlessly become unsportsmanlike?

...

 

again, another individual sport that is hard to translate to team sports. your example is like saying that the Pats should have decreased their efforts in winning the game after getting the huge lead. is their bench really that weak that they can say that if they let their second stringers play it is a decrease in effort in winning therefore they were trying to let the opponent come back and make the game closer?

 

...

Should Tiger Woods start hitting bogeys from the 13th hole up to the last when he already clinched the tourney by the 12th hole? or is it unsportsmanlike?

...

 

the only comparison I can make for this is like when the regular season is about to finish and the Pats already clinched the home field advantage all throughout it and they still have games left. also as far as I know, the scoring difference does not matter much in determining the standings. it is not as if the Pats had to keep on scoring to win the whole NFL regular season like Tiger Woods had to keep on increasing his tournament lead?

 

also, a sidenote that I think may or might not be wrong, it is hard to clinch a golf tournament by the 12th hole as he can still get +10 score for each hole. let's say Tiger sucked for the remaining 6 holes, that could only means he had a 60 stroke lead at the end of his 12th hole. I think what you're saying is Tiger was like playing to increase his lead eventhough it was "already" safe by anyone's standards save for a complete worst-case scenario meltdown like what I just

pointed out.

 

...

DOMINATION in Pro Sports have been documented and well taken. Except now in the NFL, where a cheap shot at Brady is more vindictive than what the Pats are legally doing, which is scoring while they can. The Pats were not against a Div 2 College Football team. They were against Pro Football players and Pro Football teams under the same Salary Cap under the same NFL Rules. I think that is fair enough of a competition. In week 6 they faced an undefeated DALLAS team with the number 1 offense. Last week they were against the #5 Defense and the 5-2 WASHINGTON team. Yet in both games, people said the Pats were unsportsmanlike coz they ran up the score. Ain't those teams supposed to give them a good fight? They couldn't stop the Pats, yet it's the Pats fault that they can't? It's not the job of the Pats to stop, coz they are PAID to go on and play football 60 minutes per game. If they got a problem with that, then they should not be in the NFL. If the going gets tough, the tough gets going.

 

you're right about two things, a cheap shot at any starter, or for any player for that matter, for the Pats is damn wrong and the Pats need not stop playing and dominating the other team. cheap shots have no place in any sport and should never be condoned. but giving your opponent a reason to do it to you is not really smart of you, especially when there are still a lot of games needed to be played.

 

running up the score is a concept that is really subjective to anyone who's watching. to you and the others it may not be rubbing salt on the wound but to some it is a figurative slap on the face when the other is already out of it. like what you've said, the games the Pats have played should have been fair enough competition and that is why not all the games the Pats have played that resulted in blowouts were not accused as such.

 

it is only the point of some players, media people and fans where exact instances in some games where the Pats could have done some things better since they have been 3 time champs in this decade. the Pats chose to leave their starters in 4th Quarters where the game was already almost beyond reach and the opponent already conceding defeat and some "unconventional" playcalling (like the 4th and 1 near the end of the game) but instead they chose to go the other way (the chose the play leading to a TD where a FG at that point was more than enough already). I for one didn't mind going for a TD at that point as that was harder to do but to some that meant a lot of disrespect and not a lot of class. everyone else have their opinion about this but the fact of the matter is Championship caliber teams are expected to act differently in the face of certain situations. should have the Pats act "merciful" by just going for a FG in that play? that one I don't know as mercy is as subjective to almost any person as most have different definitions of what mercy is. the fact of the matter is, the last two games where the Pats dominated they have decided to pile on the score when there was really no need for it and their opponents already conceding defeat before that.

Edited November 3, 2007 by cheeselogger

[denimhead]

as far as i know the pats and the colts havent played yet......

[denimhead]

SF over ATL

BUF beats CIN

DET outscores DEN

GB over KC

SD over MIN

NO on a streak over JAC

NYJ upsets WAS

ARI over TB

SEA over CLE

NE over IND

HOU beats OAK

PHI over DAL

PIT over BAL

[cheeselogger]

I have a feeling this will be the week I'm going to get it all right...

 

Sunday's games:

San Francisco beats Atlanta

Buffalo holding homecourt advantage over Cincinnati

Detroit burning Denver's secondary when it matters most

Green Bay winning again over Kansas City

San Diego continuing its rampage against Minnesota

Jacksonville making life more miserable for New Orleans

Washington sealing the fate for the NY Jets

Arizona suprising Tampa Bay

Tennessee over Carolina

Cleveland upsetting Seattle

Indianapolis bringing New England back to earth with a last minute score

Oakland wins against Houston

Philadelphia shocking Dallas

 

Monday Night Football

Pittsburgh outperforming Baltimore

[gift_of_game]

Cheese probably covered enough ground, even the all-sports analogies and I concur with that, pretty much.

The bottomline is, it's tough to compare individual sports with team sports. The arguments just tend to get loopy.

 

To begin with, I got nothing against the Pats winning. It's apparent that Belichick wants the perfect slate to go with his Super Bowl season.

And he's a great coach, sure. Arguably the best one the league has had in quite a while.

 

But Spygate was stupid enough. A team with that much talent shouldn't even bother engaging in such half-assed stunts.

That's probably the apex of self-doubt right there.

You don't trust your powderkeg club to get it done without having to do this kind of thing?

I'd honestly punch him in the face if I were Brady.

But I guess that's just how much trust they have in the guy who delivers results---that he can do no wrong, ratty little hoodie and all.

For all their championships, this pretty much smacked of chumphood on their part.

 

Winning's well and good, sure. Belichick himself said so much that it's all that matters right now.

Should they have gone for a FG? It doesn't really matter. They had to do something at that point.

 

But why leave your starters that late in the game? What's the friggin' point? The Skins D was clearly overmatched anyway.

They looked more like a platoon of bums who somehow found their way into Foxborough and ended up dressing for the game.

We could say about the same for the offense though they're really much worse with that decimated O-Line.

The prudent and not to mention logical thing would have been to get your 2nd-stringers some face time, run a few plays and get it over with.

The game was out of reach by then and this practically rendered Welker's late TD the most pathetic TD of the year.

 

But again, it's Belichick's team, not mine and apparently the man can do no wrong even if he doesn't have the least bit of class in going about his business.

I'm sorry, I dunno about you guys but I just expect a whole lot more from a championship club.

 

JUST MY 2 CENTS.

[gift_of_game]

Week 9 Picks

ATL over Frisco

Cincy over BUF

Detroit over Denver

KC over GB

SD over Vikes

NO over Jack

Skins over Jets

Zona over Bucs

Panthers over Titans

Seattle over Cleveland

Indy over Pats

Raiders over Texans

Birds over Cowboys

 

MNF

Pitt over BMore in a low-scoring, smashmouth affair

[Metz]

The point of comparing individual pro sports to team pro sports is the effort and the way Domination is being displayed. It's not about the mechanics of the game. It's how i want the Dominating part of the game be visioned. I just find it unfair to call teams unsportsmanlike for dominating their opponents in an even match.

 

I want the efforts to be seen not as negatively as is has been, but as a beauty to behold. Just because you are not rooting for them, you can just say they are playing unsportsmanlike. And they are chasing records. The record of the team scoring the most points in the season currently held by the Minnesota Vikings. Brady is also chasing Peyton's single season TD record. I can't see anything unsportsmanlike in that.

 

What i'm aiming at are the calls that they were unsportsmanlike and classless. They didn't talk smack before the games, and maybe just made fun out of the smack thrown at them, after the game. They didn't whine when they lost year in and year out. And now that they are winning, convincingly at that, people call them classless. They don't even commit personal fouls in-game (AFAIK). RESPECT is earned, not given. Man, i'd rather earn respect than to have it given in a silver platter.

 

Anyways, just airing my opinion on the matter. Learnings come sometimes be painful. Defeats come sometimes be stingy. Truth most of the time hurts. Meaningless beatings can sometimes (and should) be seen as motivation.

 

I'm not jumping on the bandwagon. I'm merely appreciating the beauty of the game. Peace all.

[cheeselogger]

bro G_o_G's also in this thread so I guess he's also making his reply.

 

hehehe

 

The point of comparing individual pro sports to team pro sports is the effort and the way Domination is being displayed. It's not about the mechanics of the game. It's how i want the Dominating part of the game be visioned. I just find it unfair to call teams unsportsmanlike for dominating their opponents in an even match.

...

 

I did not say you shouldn't compare the sports in terms of mechanics. I understood where you came from about the effort, that's why I replied do the Pats really think their bench is that weak that it would be a decrease in effort to let them play? I know the skill level is way different hence there are starters and bench players but strictly effort-speaking, should it be a letdown in effort to win for letting the bench players have a chance to play in a game? especially when your opponent already has started to put in their bench players?

 

...

I want the efforts to be seen not as negatively as is has been, but as a beauty to behold. Just because you are not rooting for them, you can just say they are playing unsportsmanlike. And they are chasing records. The record of the team scoring the most points in the season currently held by the Minnesota Vikings. Brady is also chasing Peyton's single season TD record. I can't see anything unsportsmanlike in that.

...

 

I'm not a Pats hater but I am a Colts fan. with all honesty I do not chastise any team just because I'm not a fan. even the Boston Red Sox, which I somehow hate since I am a Yankees fan, I never insult them without any basis. also, as far as I know of Brady, he's also a team player that most probably never even includes in his goal to break and smash records except maybe team-owned records. somehow same thing goes for the whole team as they have won their past 3 Super Bowl Rings without any "care" for any record, they let Peyton and the Colts have phenomenal seasons before and all they cared was they were going the games that matter most. no matter what the score was.

 

besides, it wasn't Brady who made that Welker TD pass (or was it him) so I'm not sure that Tom is guilty of anything. I'm not absolving him of anything wrong, I just don't want to put blame on anybody now. all I know is there is something wrong with how they've finished their last few games.

 

...

What i'm aiming at are the calls that they were unsportsmanlike and classless. They didn't talk smack before the games, and maybe just made fun out of the smack thrown at them, after the game. They didn't whine when they lost year in and year out. And now that they are winning, convincingly at that, people call them classless. They don't even commit personal fouls in-game (AFAIK). RESPECT is earned, not given. Man, i'd rather earn respect than to have it given in a silver platter.

 

Anyways, just airing my opinion on the matter. Learnings come sometimes be painful. Defeats come sometimes be stingy. Truth most of the time hurts. Meaningless beatings can sometimes (and should) be seen as motivation.

 

I'm not jumping on the bandwagon. I'm merely appreciating the beauty of the game. Peace all.

 

you're right about those examples you gave, they didn't do that. but it is that "invicible" line of respect towards your opponent that some fans, players and media people have decided that the Pats crossed. some have good points while some are probably just downright bitter but the fact of the matter is there is a lot of people who said that. like they say, where there is smoke there's fire.

 

also, you want to talk about respect earned? I'm not sure if all deserve it but I'm willing to bet a lot of the players from the Cowboys and the 'Skins, especially their coach, earned a lot of respect already. running up the score against them certainly didn't show that respect for them.

 

one more thing, DOMINATION is not shown by crushing an already defeated team. if the opponent already conceded defeat, is it still DOMINATING to keep on beating them to the ground? is that a beautiful sight? BEAUTY is in the eye of the beholder so I guess I might already have my answer to the last question...

 

hehehe

Edited November 4, 2007 by cheeselogger

[gift_of_game]

The point of comparing individual pro sports to team pro sports is the effort and the way Domination is being displayed. It's not about the mechanics of the game. It's how i want the Dominating part of the game be visioned. I just find it unfair to call teams unsportsmanlike for dominating their opponents in an even match.

 

the individual to team sport comparison just won't stick. there's a world of difference.

a bowler and tennis player clearly don't have that choice because there really isn't anything like "running it up" or for that matter, "garbage time" in individual sports.

these guys are expected to dominate because they're going at it alone.

they answer to no one and get all the blame when they lose.

team sports clearly just have it differently, apples and oranges and lemons and kumquats.

 

but while we're at it---why not consider boxing?

once the other guy's punch-drunk and clearly can't continue, they stop the fight.

 

I want the efforts to be seen not as negatively as is has been, but as a beauty to behold. Just because you are not rooting for them, you can just say they are playing unsportsmanlike. And they are chasing records. The record of the team scoring the most points in the season currently held by the Minnesota Vikings. Brady is also chasing Peyton's single season TD record. I can't see anything unsportsmanlike in that.

What i'm aiming at are the calls that they were unsportsmanlike and classless. They didn't talk smack before the games, and maybe just made fun out of the smack thrown at them, after the game. They didn't whine when they lost year in and year out. And now that they are winning, convincingly at that, people call them classless. They don't even commit personal fouls in-game (AFAIK). RESPECT is earned, not given. Man, i'd rather earn respect than to have it given in a silver platter.

Anyways, just airing my opinion on the matter. Learnings come sometimes be painful. Defeats come sometimes be stingy. Truth most of the time hurts. Meaningless beatings can sometimes (and should) be seen as motivation.

 

Let me clarify, while I don't root and have found it extremely hard to cheer for them, I've never argued against what they bring to the table.

They're a great football club with a future Hall-of-Fame coach at the helm.

They're pretty much the Spurs of the NFL, a club that's as talented as it is smart, a club that puts a premium on winning.

And before the whole Spygate debacle, they smacked of class in a rogue league starving for it.

 

That little incident aside, what's not to like?

They sure get a lot of guys a ton of points in fantasy week in/out.

And they're well on their way to breaking a lot of records edgewise.

In a sports-mad world like ours that gets high on numbers at whatever cost, maybe that's more than enough to make the grade for most people.

 

But if you concede that the beatdowns are meaningless---why even bother?

It's like challenging a cripple to a marathon.

Dude won't win---heck, he won't even finish the race.

You only end up humiliating yourself by going at it with the cripple in the first place.

 

Where's the beauty there?

Seeing Welker celebrate late in the game by spiking the football in the endzone was just odd with the game way out of reach.

How do you earn respect when you're crapping all over peeps who aren't worth half-a-cup of spit?

Dishing out punishment to the underdogs?

Beating morons at crosswords?

Piling it on like it ain't no thing, just because you can?

Doesn't it somewhat cheapen your aims?

 

Anyway, this is just another man's opinion.

 

The Pats and Belichick can do whatever they want to do.

Edited November 4, 2007 by gift_of_game

[Metz]

@cheese

 

The opponent's starters were still left in the game until the end. Redskins scored with 3 minutes left with their Starting QB and starting TE. Miami's Cleo Lemon was not pulled out of the game either. In the miami game, 2nd string QB Cassel entered with 11 minutes left in the 4th, but threw and interception and Miami scored 14 points under 3 minutes. Brady was sent back in and finished the Dolphins. In the 'Skins game, Cassel was brought in and made a 15-yard TD run before Campbell threw the late TD pass to Cooley. And yes, it was Brady who threw the late TD to Welker who spiked the ball.

 

I do agree that opinions differ and one's view of the situation is different from mine. Also am in agreement that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But never will I say that it's wrong even if it's ugly. If the rules don't say so and the field is even, even if it is ugly, it is still not wrong. it's sympathy that makes it sour. Their adults and they should take it like men.

 

Respect shouldn't be measured or gauged by an "invisible" line. Who knows where is that line? Some say it's after you are leading by 4 TDs even if early in the 4th quarter. Some say it's when your leading 42-7 at the half. Some say it's when your leading 31-7 with 7 minutes left in the third. There's nothing wrong with protecting the lead, especially if the opposing team's starters are still on the field. the question is what should the leading team do. i guess it will be more respectful that the leading team take a knee on the first three downs while laughing all the time, then punting on the 4th down than going for it and drive the offense to the end zone. Nothing's wrong with laughing, and taking a knee is legal. They are just having fun. And they are not running up the score. Sounds good to me. And note, they are not laughing at the opposing team. they are just laughing.

 

Domination is completely outplaying your opponents and convincingly winning against them. It's not beating them to the ground. It's so exaggerated. In boxing, coaches and trainers can throw the towel, but in the NFL there is no need. It's just scoring. It's not a matter of life and death. Hence my comparison to any sport in the world. Shutouts and blowouts are part of the game. And for the record, nobody has conceded in the NFL. It's the defense' job to stop the opposing team's offense. And the referees' job is to call it fairly. I guess the refs are also barbaric. They didn't stop the beating. I guess there should be like an 8-count rule in the NFL. Haha! when a team is trailing by 28 points with 8 minutes left in the thrid quarter, they should score on their next drive or the game will be stopped. Pats win by TKO! woohoo! just kidding.

 

I guess i'm more barbaric, or i am just not sympathetic. We're not dealing with life and death here. They are just doing their jobs, legally and fairly. It's not wrong and barbaric to score on every opportunity isn't it? There is no white flag "yet" in the NFL. And no lead is safe and the game is not over until the final buzzer sounds. Stranger things have happened. And i will not be the first to react if any player will defeat the Pats so badly, coz i know they will learn from it. As they should be. As it is supposed to be, if were dealing with "invisible" lines here.

 

 

@ g_o_g

 

sir, in boxing there is an 8-count rule. There is a TKO rule. There is the throwing of the towel. In the NFL, there is none....yet. If that's the case, there is no surrender in the NFL. Playing for 60 minutes is the rule.

 

Sir, if Bill Belichick plays with his right hand in tennis (Brady and the rest) and leading 6-0, 6-0, 5-0, would switching hands (bench players) make it more respectful? Would intentionally missing the ball (taking a knee or punting or kicking a field goal or simply stop scoring) be more appropriate? Yes there is no garbage time in individual sports, and yes only the players themselves are accountable to the win or the loss. But still, a team is considered alone by themselves against other teams. They answer to no one and get all the blame if they lose. They are not individuals out there. They are a unit. A unit is one. This ain't the WWE Royal Rumble. As for garbage time, I guess tennis players and pro bowlers can play with their other hand just for practice to make it garbage time. Then again, it's unsportsmanlike. But possible. Never thought of it though.

 

Sir, they won against the 5-0 Dallas Cowboys who had the #1 offense, capable of coming back as they had shown a week before in Buffalo. Then the following week, Miami scored 14 unanswered points within 3 minutes after Brady was benched. Last week, they were facing the #5 Defense in the NFL. They ain't cripple sir. I certainly did not see them as that. They all are under the same salary cap. they are all under the rules of the NFL. Here are some not-so-cripple like facts:

 

Miami beat NE a year ago by shutting them out. NE scored 0 (zero). nada. zilch. Nobody heard anything.

NE hasnt beaten washington ever since Brady was their starting QB. And Joe Gibbs is even with Bill Belichick before the match at 2-2.

 

It is wrong if a player and a team thinks that their opponents are the underdogs. they should not. they should be prepared and never underestimate any opponent. That's what a team in pro sports do. They should treat their opponents as equal. if there's one thing that is as rare as it is common in pro sports, it is the word UPSET. it can happen and it does happen. they are playing in pro sports sir. showing dominance in every game, being consistent, being a force, earning your millions doing what your supposed to do, and doing it fairly and legally, by scoring TDs and just spike the ball (no TO or Ocho Cinco routines), is as common in the game as being hit, being pounded, getting injured, and getting cheap shot at.

 

No team defeated was unconscious, they were not lying on the ground before the play, they were not calling an injury timeout. they were well, they were capable, they were supposed to compete. they were paid to compete. I guess there is no class in the 1992 Dream Team. They showed no mercy. They kept on scoring until the last buzzer. They were dominant. They were a team. they were not individuals. Ok ok, they benched their starters. LOL. they were all superstars. Everyone was a starter. they were a beauty to watch. And rightfully, i will not call their opponents cripple. it was the Olympics. All games were treated the same.

 

There was no invisible line that time. Respect was not an issue. yet they pounded on the opposing team night after night. Leading by 40-70 points as early as the 2nd quarter. The opponents gave respect to the Dream Team. They were satisfied to have played against them despite the beating. And yes, there were no salary caps and the opposing team was clearly an underdog. Isn't that unfair? but not in the Olympics.

Edited November 4, 2007 by Metz

[howard_the_duck]

the colts and the pats won't even meet at the super bowl

 

HAHAHAHA

[gift_of_game]

sir, in boxing there is an 8-count rule. There is a TKO rule. There is the throwing of the towel. In the NFL, there is none....yet. If that's the case, there is no surrender in the NFL. Playing for 60 minutes is the rule.

 

first off, please stop calling me sir.

we're all equals here.

and even if we disagree, I respect your right to have your own take on things.

this is the sports thread anyway. so sabi nga nila, "sport lang".

boxing obviously has it because they don't want to hurt the other guy needlessly.

all I'm driving at here is, the other dude and the ref knows when a guy is beat.

They do not have to go great lengths in proving who won it.

For such a brutal sport, that's saying a lot.

 

Sir, if Bill Belichick plays with his right hand in tennis (Brady and the rest) and leading 6-0, 6-0, 5-0, would switching hands (bench players) make it more respectful? Would intentionally missing the ball (taking a knee or punting or kicking a field goal or simply stop scoring) be more appropriate? Yes there is no garbage time in individual sports, and yes only the players themselves are accountable to the win or the loss. But still, a team is considered alone by themselves against other teams. They answer to no one and get all the blame if they lose. They are not individuals out there. They are a unit. A unit is one. This ain't the WWE Royal Rumble. As for garbage time, I guess tennis players and pro bowlers can play with their other hand just for practice to make it garbage time. Then again, it's unsportsmanlike. But possible. Never thought of it though.

 

again, this is where comparing an individual sport to a team sport just falls way, way short.

like I said, the arguments tend to get loopy. the semantics can only take you so far.

and I dunno at which point I said it but I never asked the Patsies to bungle it up.

C'mon now.

 

Sir, they won against the 5-0 Dallas Cowboys who had the #1 offense, capable of coming back as they had shown a week before in Buffalo. Then the following week, Miami scored 14 unanswered points within 3 minutes after Brady was benched. Last week, they were facing the #5 Defense in the NFL. They ain't cripple sir. I certainly did not see them as that. They all are under the same salary cap. they are all under the rules of the NFL. Here are some not-so-cripple like facts:

Miami beat NE a year ago by shutting them out. NE scored 0 (zero). nada. zilch. Nobody heard anything.

NE hasnt beaten washington ever since Brady was their starting QB. And Joe Gibbs is even with Bill Belichick before the match at 2-2.

 

the Pats and all the other teams are obviously different teams right now.

Miami's not as sharp as it was defensively in recent years and just can't get enough points on the board.

The Skins looked promising out of the gate but injuries put them back on the backburner.

anyhow, if you were to go by Belichick's OWN WORDS, none of what you said matters at all...no one cares who did what last year, last month or last week--that's all in the past.

it's all about winning and delivering results at whatever cost right now.

 

It is wrong if a player and a team thinks that their opponents are the underdogs. they should not. they should be prepared and never underestimate any opponent. That's what a team in pro sports do. They should treat their opponents as equal. if there's one thing that is as rare as it is common in pro sports, it is the word UPSET. it can happen and it does happen. they are playing in pro sports sir. showing dominance in every game, being consistent, being a force, earning your millions doing what your supposed to do, and doing it fairly and legally, by scoring TDs and just spike the ball (no TO or Ocho Cinco routines), is as common in the game as being hit, being pounded, getting injured, and getting cheap shot at.

No team defeated was unconscious, they were not lying on the ground before the play, they were not calling an injury timeout. they were well, they were capable, they were supposed to compete. they were paid to compete.

 

...and they were, like I say again, too crippled to compete in the first place.

spirit willing, body weak = blowout.

prospect of getting upset by a young, decimated visiting team like the Skins?

Slim.

prospect of rising up from a beatdown with a little over a quarter left on the clock with a decimated O-Line, half-assed receivers and overmatched runners?

Zilch.

bottomline, game out of hand, send those scrubs in.

if respecting the opponent is such a foreign concept, respect the game at the very least.

 

or maybe that's just what's wrong with pro sports nowadays...

 

and I don't want to say anything more about the Dream Team-Pats comparison save for that it's a freaking travesty.

Edited November 4, 2007 by gift_of_game

[cheeselogger]

@cheese

 

The opponent's starters were still left in the game until the end. Redskins scored with 3 minutes left with their Starting QB and starting TE. Miami's Cleo Lemon was not pulled out of the game either. In the miami game, 2nd string QB Cassel entered with 11 minutes left in the 4th, but threw and interception and Miami scored 14 points under 3 minutes. Brady was sent back in and finished the Dolphins. In the 'Skins game, Cassel was brought in and made a 15-yard TD run before Campbell threw the late TD pass to Cooley. And yes, it was Brady who threw the late TD to Welker who spiked the ball.

...

 

that Miami game I wasn't pertaining too. I was pointing out to the Dallas game and the Washington game. I might have mixed up the last 2 game referrence and forgot about the Miami game. I apologize for that mistake. anyway, back to your reply yeah that Miami game looked all good in my opinion. see, the Pats did the "classy" thing and let their second stringers play in that game early in the 4th Quarter. and when the Dolphins made a run to make it close, Bellichick had to bring in Brady to make sure they won that game. but that 'Skins game? Cassel already had it covered and the 'Skins didn't even make a dent to their lead, so what was the use of bringing back in Brady?

 

...

I do agree that opinions differ and one's view of the situation is different from mine. Also am in agreement that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But never will I say that it's wrong even if it's ugly. If the rules don't say so and the field is even, even if it is ugly, it is still not wrong. it's sympathy that makes it sour. Their adults and they should take it like men.

 

Respect shouldn't be measured or gauged by an "invisible" line. Who knows where is that line? Some say it's after you are leading by 4 TDs even if early in the 4th quarter. Some say it's when your leading 42-7 at the half. Some say it's when your leading 31-7 with 7 minutes left in the third. There's nothing wrong with protecting the lead, especially if the opposing team's starters are still on the field. the question is what should the leading team do. i guess it will be more respectful that the leading team take a knee on the first three downs while laughing all the time, then punting on the 4th down than going for it and drive the offense to the end zone. Nothing's wrong with laughing, and taking a knee is legal. They are just having fun. And they are not running up the score. Sounds good to me. And note, they are not laughing at the opposing team. they are just laughing.

...

 

I never implied to say that beauty or the absence of it was related to right or wrong. all I'm saying is in my humble opinion, it is not a good sight to see someone beating up a hapless team. yeah, the premise was they were equal teams. but obviously in that game they weren't. do we need to bring up stats just to show that that game was already a total mismatch? eventhough they are both NFL teams?

 

again you are right, respect isn't something that can be measured. the only thing I meant about that invicible line is that is the limit that most people know that respect was being give. you are right that there are no agreed upon "code of conduct" when it comes to protecting a lead, but isn't it still protecting a lead by just going for 3 pts instead of going for 6 pts when obviously the opponent is having a hard time to score? to make it more in the Pats favor, it was already in the 4th Quarter and running out the clock would have been easier to do.

 

that laughing scenario can and will be interpreted differently. just like I've said, running up the score is subjective to people and that laughter, even though they weren't directing it to the opponent, can be interpreted as a disrespect for others. as I've said, it would be better for players to just play the game and not give the other team any reason to retaliate or do anything bad.

 

...

Domination is completely outplaying your opponents and convincingly winning against them. It's not beating them to the ground. It's so exaggerated. In boxing, coaches and trainers can throw the towel, but in the NFL there is no need. It's just scoring. It's not a matter of life and death. Hence my comparison to any sport in the world. Shutouts and blowouts are part of the game. And for the record, nobody has conceded in the NFL. It's the defense' job to stop the opposing team's offense. And the referees' job is to call it fairly. I guess the refs are also barbaric. They didn't stop the beating. I guess there should be like an 8-count rule in the NFL. Haha! when a team is trailing by 28 points with 8 minutes left in the thrid quarter, they should score on their next drive or the game will be stopped. Pats win by TKO! woohoo! just kidding.

 

I guess i'm more barbaric, or i am just not sympathetic. We're not dealing with life and death here. They are just doing their jobs, legally and fairly. It's not wrong and barbaric to score on every opportunity isn't it? There is no white flag "yet" in the NFL. And no lead is safe and the game is not over until the final buzzer sounds. Stranger things have happened. And i will not be the first to react if any player will defeat the Pats so badly, coz i know they will learn from it. As they should be. As it is supposed to be, if were dealing with "invisible" lines here.

...

 

it's not exaggerated. when you are leading by more than 30 pts in the 4th quarter (not the start of it) and it still shows that you can score again whenever you want, piling on the score is beating the opposing team to the ground. what, 30 pts is not enough lead for you? what do you want, a 100 pt lead before you can say that you really won that game? the boxing comparison will not hold water in team sports, as you have said football and other notable team sports are not a matter of life and death. but to prove a point that there is a place for "mercy" rule in team sports, baseball/softball has a 15 run scored mercy rule that if a team reaches that point in any inning, they can stop the game already and give the win to the leading team. I'm not sure though if they do that in the pro's, but I know there is/was a rule like this. obviously, it is hard to make a limit in games like football or basketball but just to reiterate my point, there is still a place for "mercy" in team sports.

 

 

...

No team defeated was unconscious, they were not lying on the ground before the play, they were not calling an injury timeout. they were well, they were capable, they were supposed to compete. they were paid to compete. I guess there is no class in the 1992 Dream Team. They showed no mercy. They kept on scoring until the last buzzer. They were dominant. They were a team. they were not individuals. Ok ok, they benched their starters. LOL. they were all superstars. Everyone was a starter. they were a beauty to watch. And rightfully, i will not call their opponents cripple. it was the Olympics. All games were treated the same.

 

There was no invisible line that time. Respect was not an issue. yet they pounded on the opposing team night after night. Leading by 40-70 points as early as the 2nd quarter. The opponents gave respect to the Dream Team. They were satisfied to have played against them despite the beating. And yes, there were no salary caps and the opposing team was clearly an underdog. Isn't that unfair? but not in the Olympics.

 

this one was not addressed to me but I would like to take a stab at it.

 

that one and only Dream Team showed mercy as they never had to go full throttle the full 40 minutes. almost all of their opponents at that time said it themselves, most of them were thinking more of asking for autographs at the end of the game from the superstars of the game rather than competing. and yeah, there are no restrictive rules in the Olympics on how much talent they can put in one team. but one thing you can be sure about the Dream Team, they came in every game only looking for the win and never thinking they should be leading by 40+ points every game. I cannot say the same thing for this year's Patriots...

[neKnock]

Damm blackout last night killed my momentum. Now to put it out of my chest.

 

This maybe basketball, but this is the closest I could go for now.

 

Rob Sanz scored the final basket in the Purefoods-Ginebra blowout last night. Pat Burke swished three three-pointers against the Kings. But you say, no, these are bench players making the most of their limited time on the court. However, I can also say that they RAN UP THE SCORE in an already settled game. Watching the Youtube clip, you could hear one commentator say after Burke scored the three trifectas, "Now that is rubbing salt into the wound."

 

You want a starter? In the SLR-TNT game, Kelly Williams jammed one home with the game out of hand. I can accuse him of running up the score and rubbing it in when he dunked it in before the game ended.

 

Then there's Boozer in the rookie challenge. He got posterized after his guard bounced the ball off his head then scored a three-pointer just before the buzzer. He made a big deal out of this. The following year, as a sophomore, he got posterized once more after he got dunked over before the game ended. You can say that this is just an exhibition game for entertainment purposes. But if this were an actual game your opinion might differ.

 

Speaking of people making a big fuss, nothing beats the Knicks who suddenly started throwing punches against the Nuggets because the Denver coaching staff decided to let the starters to finish the game. As in WTF?

 

I have watched collegiate summer leagues and you have the Team B of a UAAP member school run roughshod the Team A of some non-UAAP/NCAA school. The latter could say, "Why bother?" or "It's unfair. They have a bigger sports budget. They should play their Team C against us."

 

Still, I don't get where the hate on the Pats come from.

 

Oh yeah, I'm also watching the Pats-Colts on Sopcast right now. If you DON'T want spoilers, do tell.

 

-----

 

Just recalled something. There was this televised game, couldn't recall if it was the PBA or the UAAP. The team who was ahead decided to run down the clock by committing three straight 24-second shotclock violations. Although it was 'sportsmanlike' as per your definition because they never attempted to run up the score, that sure looked weird.

Edited November 4, 2007 by neKnock

[Guernica]

the only game that matters:

Pats 24

Colts 21

 

Ang galing mo talaga! Quack, quack