Apo Marcos : Facts And Myths

[camiar]

9 hours ago, JonKartero said:

Anyway, back to the main topic: dead Marcos myths.

Has there been any evidence ever presented that Marcos got rich from Tallano gold? Because Imee Marcos thinks it's an urban legend.

 

The youtube item you posted shows how patient Imee Marcos was in answering impertinent questions of a wannabe journalist paid specifically to ask questions calculated to put her in bad light. 

Imee answered them well. Intelligently and professionally. 

I can imagine you fuming for nor seeing her get flustered by all these inane questions. 

[camiar]

Would you rather read purported "history books" written by some paid propagandist? Would you rather hear it from people who were there?

 

[camiar]

On 11/8/2021 at 1:55 PM, JonKartero said:

youtube, tiktok, social media, all of them are platforms for denialist propaganda kasi walang editorial oversight, unlike news organizations or newspaper and book publishers. also relies on "shock" value, virality, and the appeal of "uy sikreto natin ito ah, tayo-tayo lang nakakaalam" to the uninitiated.

This is  video will tell you the reason why people don't rely on mainstream media anymore.

They turn to social media as alternative source of information that mainstream media is hiding from the people.

 

[JonKartero]

20 hours ago, camiar said:

I lived through the Martial Law period. My personal account of what happened then is more credible than anybody born after 1986.

I lived during Martial Law too. Joke's on you.

20 hours ago, camiar said:

Juan Ponce Enrile is 95 years old. His personal account about ALL the presidents from President Aguinaldo to Duterte and about Martial Law is more credible than what CNN can dish out on the same subject.

Enrile has flip flopped more times than Big Show has turned heel/face.

20 hours ago, camiar said:

I stick to my argument. They are free because they are irrelevant and nobody reads them anymore.

You have zero factual basis for what you are saying, which at least makes you consistent.

20 hours ago, camiar said:

I don't need any academic or historian to side with me. I can decide for myself what is true based on what I've seen and learned.

That is literally not how history works. but please, go ahead and comfort yourself with your delusion of adequacy.

20 hours ago, camiar said:

Did I say pro-Marcos camp's social media posts are more credible? I was posting samples of social media vlogs that are used for truthful and positive messages.

You *assume* that the social media vlogs that you posted (all of which are Pro-Marcos propaganda, by the way) are "truthful and positive," and thus credible. You have also said that you are your own barometer for what is "truthful and positive," so that completes the circular logic.

20 hours ago, camiar said:

There are oppositions' social media posts that are truthful and positive, too. A lot of them. Are you saying they're not credible as well?  

By all means, show them here then.

20 hours ago, camiar said:

So, what does your post of Augusto Decena prove?

That the supposedly "credible" vlog you posted omitted relevant information as to the underlying nature of the motorcade - that it was not an organic, volunteer effort, and that it was organized and sponsored by no less than the local and provincial government of Ilocos Sur. Those are pretty important details to be leaving out, don't you agree?

[camiar]

6 hours ago, JonKartero said:

I lived during Martial Law too. Joke's on you.

Then use your experience and deep personal knowledge. Why do you need some jaded historian to tell you what to believe?

Enrile has flip flopped more times than Big Show has turned heel/face.

Whatever way you spin it, you can't deny that Enrile's narrative has always been consistent. And if you really lived through Matial Law, you are a witness that they're true.

You have zero factual basis for what you are saying, which at least makes you consistent.

Why do you need somebody else's "historical" writings to prove what you yourself has witnessed? I know wat i lived through. I know if the events narrated by somebody is credible or not. I can stand by what I know is true.

If you can't, that's your problem. 

That is literally not how history works. but please, go ahead and comfort yourself with your delusion of adequacy.

Hahaha! Really?  Ever heard of oral history? If you don't, that's another item  for you to learn.

You *assume* that the social media vlogs that you posted (all of which are Pro-Marcos propaganda, by the way) are "truthful and positive," and thus credible. You have also said that you are your own barometer for what is "truthful and positive," so that completes the circular logic.

I have a lot of pro-Marcos vlogs that are factual, informative, and engaging. I'll post them here at every opportunity. Actually, it doesn't matter to me if you don't find them credible. I leave it to other readers of this forum to decide for themselves. 

By all means, show them here then.

Why would I? You're the one who should have samples of factual, informative. and engaging vlogs of your favorite your opposition camp. The challenge is on you!

I wouldn't be surprised if you can't post one. I won't blame you. Most of their vlogs are black propaganda. The positive and factual ones are rare. 

That the supposedly "credible" vlog you posted omitted relevant information as to the underlying nature of the motorcade - that it was not an organic, volunteer effort, and that it was organized and sponsored by no less than the local and provincial government of Ilocos Sur. Those are pretty important details to be leaving out, don't you agree?

Hahaha! I don't need to prove that the BBM supporter's caravans and parades are volunteer efforts. You can find out for yourself by watching it. That's freedom of information. I freely give  the information to you. It's up to you to vet if it's true or not, just as everybody else in this forum should do.

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by camiar

[JonKartero]

On 11/13/2021 at 11:03 PM, camiar said:

Then use your experience and deep personal knowledge. Why do you need some jaded historian to tell you what to believe?

Because unlike you, I will not pretend to have firsthand knowledge of every detail of Martial Law operations conducted by the PC and the Army under Marcos' instruction.

On 11/13/2021 at 11:03 PM, camiar said:

Whatever way you spin it, you can't deny that Enrile's narrative has always been consistent.

Flip-flop nga eh. Yung ambush pa lang niya, ilang beses na niya pinalitan yung kuwento.

 

On 11/13/2021 at 11:03 PM, camiar said:

Why do you need somebody else's "historical" writings to prove what you yourself has witnessed? I know wat i lived through. I know if the events narrated by somebody is credible or not. I can stand by what I know is true.

If you can't, that's your problem. 

Witness testimony is faulty, and can only be as good as the rest of the evidence available to support it.

You put too much faith in your own "personal" knowledge, when in reality you never witnessed any of the things you talk about directly and in person. You also relied on media and third-party accounts to *confirm* what you think you knew.

If you can't admit that to yourself, that's your problem.

On 11/13/2021 at 11:03 PM, camiar said:

Hahaha! Really?  Ever heard of oral history? If you don't, that's another item  for you to learn.

Oral history =/= kuwentong barbero. Even accounts of history passed down orally are done so by strict tradition among practitioners among our IPs.

Is this really the best the pro-Marcos can do? Pumulot ng kung anu-anong idea para lang ma-justify yung mga paniniwala nila na wala naman talagang basehan?

On 11/13/2021 at 11:03 PM, camiar said:

I have a lot of pro-Marcos vlogs that are factual, informative, and engaging.

According to you. Look up "confirmation bias" on Google.

On 11/13/2021 at 11:03 PM, camiar said:

Why would I? You're the one who should have samples of factual, informative. and engaging vlogs

I read books. I'm apparently more old-school than you that way.

 

On 11/13/2021 at 11:03 PM, camiar said:

I wouldn't be surprised if you can't post one. I won't blame you.

I shared books written by foreign authors, and you still refuse to acknowledge their credibility, kasi "dilawan." I posted a video where Imee Marcos flat out denies the "Tallano gold" myth, it gets downplayed and the goalposts are moved.

I could post every informative excerpt from TV shows and documentaries available on the Internet, and you would still dismiss them as "oligarch-controlled" and "dilawan," despite being *foreign* sources. Let's face it: you challenging me to do it is an exercise in futility, because you will never admit that everything you believe is just pro-Marcos propaganda, tailored to be consumed by people like you.

On 11/13/2021 at 11:03 PM, camiar said:

Hahaha! I don't need to prove that the BBM supporter's caravans and parades are volunteer efforts. You can find out for yourself by watching it.

They omitted the information nga, di ba? Ang hina mo talaga.

On 11/13/2021 at 11:03 PM, camiar said:

I freely give  the information to you. It's up to you to vet if it's true or not, just as everybody else in this forum should do.

So you post "information" that aligns with what you believe, then it is up to everyone else to fact-check? Ganyan ka katamad mag-isip?

[JonKartero]

On 11/12/2021 at 9:05 PM, camiar said:

Would you rather read purported "history books" written by some paid propagandist? Would you rather hear it from people who were there?

Primitivo Mijares, the author of "The Conjugal Dictatorship," was very much "there" as Marcos' PR guy. But sure, keep selling the Marcos propaganda.

[camiar]

3 hours ago, JonKartero said:

Primitivo Mijares, the author of "The Conjugal Dictatorship," was very much "there" as Marcos' PR guy. But sure, keep selling the Marcos propaganda.

But Mijares story is clear propaganda used by the Yellows and Oligarchs. While the version of history I subscribe to is based on my own personal knowledge of what happened during those times, as well as narrations from people who were there, too. Where is Marcos propaganda in my version?

.

[jubal]

On 11/8/2021 at 1:55 PM, JonKartero said:

youtube, tiktok, social media, all of them are platforms for denialist propaganda kasi walang editorial oversight, unlike news organizations or newspaper and book publishers. also relies on "shock" value, virality, and the appeal of "uy sikreto natin ito ah, tayo-tayo lang nakakaalam" to the uninitiated.

a counter to your argumant na walang editorial oversight ang social media, is that people are starting to hate established media, because the biases of their owners are being revealed by the social media. dati walang social media, sila lang ang source of information, now with a social media, kahit sino may platform for a very big audience. Dati, yung mga counter-arguments sa mga sinasabi ng media walang platform. Dahil may 'editorial oversight', filtered ang information.

social media is the best and the worst thing to happen. But I appreciate that it happened. Kelangan lang ng utak para hindi maloko sa panahon ng social media. Just be open to all view points, have discernment, then you can navigate through the wild and unfiltered information of the social media age.

[camiar]

On 11/15/2021 at 11:53 AM, JonKartero said:

Because unlike you, I will not pretend to have firsthand knowledge of every detail of Martial Law operations conducted by the PC and the Army under Marcos' instruction.

Witness testimony is faulty, and can only be as good as the rest of the evidence available to support it.

You put too much faith in your own "personal" knowledge, when in reality you never witnessed any of the things you talk about directly and in person. You also relied on media and third-party accounts to *confirm* what you think you knew.

Answer:  Nobody can claim to know firsthand every detail of Martial Law operations, by the Philippine Constabulary and the Military. But I would probably have heard more stories from soldiers and military officers about what was going on during Martial Law. I was an Army brat. I lived in a military camp during my younger days. I was also exposed to the perspective of the leftists. I studied in at the time UP when leftist activism was rampant, and I have close relatives who were in high echelons of the NPA.  I know the stories of both sides, from people who lived through it, while you only read them from books written by "foreign" writers or oligarch-commissioned "historians".

 

Oral history =/= kuwentong barbero. Even accounts of history passed down orally are done so by strict tradition among practitioners among our IPs.

Is this really the best the pro-Marcos can do? Pumulot ng kung anu-anong idea para lang ma-justify yung mga paniniwala nila na wala naman talagang basehan?

According to you. Look up "confirmation bias" on Google.

I read books. I'm apparently more old-school than you that way.

Oral history is a field of study and a method of gathering, preserving and interpreting the voices and memories of people, communities, and participants in past events. Oral history is both the oldest type of historical inquiry, predating the written word, and one of the most modern, initiated with tape recorders in the 1940s and now using 21st-century digital technologies.

Answer: Yeah, that's all you can claim. You read them from "books" of "historians" commissioned by the victors of the regime change (i.e oligarchs and a certain foreign power). However, oral history is more credible than books written by an individual writers who can twist the presentation of facts to suit their bias or to suit the narrative of their sponsors.

What is oral history?: Oral history is a field of study and a method of gathering, preserving and interpreting the voices and memories of people, communities, and participants in past events. Oral history is both the oldest type of historical inquiry, predating the written word, and one of the most modern, ... using 21st-century digital technologies.

I shared books written by foreign authors, and you still refuse to acknowledge their credibility, kasi "dilawan." I posted a video where Imee Marcos flat out denies the "Tallano gold" myth, it gets downplayed and the goalposts are moved.

I could post every informative excerpt from TV shows and documentaries available on the Internet, and you would still dismiss them as "oligarch-controlled" and "dilawan," despite being *foreign* sources.

Answer: I can't help noticing your seeming obsession to the idea that if our history account is written by a foreigner, it's more credible to you!

 

 

[camiar]

On 11/15/2021 at 11:55 AM, JonKartero said:

Primitivo Mijares, the author of "The Conjugal Dictatorship," was very much "there" as Marcos' PR guy. But sure, keep selling the Marcos propaganda.

I post below an excerpt from a post on Facebook from certain Ms. Thea Tan on Nov. 15, 2021 about PRIMITIVO MIJARES:
 

"Quote:

Marcos critics often cite Primitivo Mijares’ book, The Conjugal Dictatorship, and take this book as ABSOLUTE TRUTH about martial law.

Many of those who cite this book didn’t even read it, nor did they bother to research Mijares’ reputation as a known paid propagandist before and during martial law.

-----

ACCORDING TO WIKILEAKS:

“Mission able confirm Primitivo Mijares, former Chairman, Media Advisory Council (abolished November 1974) and well-known Philippine columnist and Marcos apologist has, in fact, abandoned the New Society.

"Mijares' moved not surprising to Manila community which recognizes him as a complete opportunist who recently was feeling the hot breath of martial law regime for certain recent extra-curricular activities. Allegedly, Mijares gambled away 50,000 dollars of GOP funds during a 1974 Las Vegas visit, misappropriated for personal use 7,000 dollars of the First Lady's (Imelda) personal funds, and attempted to rape a well-connected Philippine Foreign Service secretary while in New York for the Trade Center opening, all of which accumulated to make the prospect of a return to Philippines decreasingly attractive."

Wikileaks also revealed that Mijares received “financial inducements” from Marcos’ political enemies, the Lopezes. [1]

----

Quoting RUBEN DIARIO, in this 1974 article, Managing the media Filipino style:

“The worst of these newspapermen were those who covered the House of Representatives, whose over-100 headline-hungry members were easy pickings for newsmen extortionists. The dean of these Congressional reporters was Mr. Mijares himself (who bragged before martial law that he was worth P3 million), who, upon his appointment as MAC chairman, promptly surrounded himself with his cronies from the Congressional Press Club.

"Mr. Mijares himself is a most interesting case study in media opportunism.” [2]

----

STEVE PSINAKIS, an anti-Marcos critic married into the Lopez family that owns ABS-CBN, wrote in his memoir:

“The US justice department’s investigation revealed that after his February 1975 defection, Mijares did, in fact, extort money from Marcos by feeding him imaginary information for which Marcos was ignorant enough to pay considerable sums. While Mijares was still receiving money from Marcos, he was at the same time lambasting Marcos in the US press, causing the Marcos regime irreparable damage.” [3]

----

According to STERLING SEAGRAVE, in his book, The Marcos Dynasty:

“Ferdinand first tried to discredit Mijares by circulating that he had absconded with government funds, that he was paid $150,000 by the Lopezes to join the anti-Marcos exiles, and that he was staying in the United States because of a liaison with a Filipina exile. (Mijares had left his wife and family in Manila.)

“Meanwhile, Mijares was playing both sides against the middle. After “defecting,” he was secretly accepting money from Ferdinand’s agents in exchange for information about the exiles. The FBI discovered later that Mijares had signed several vouchers for $20,000 and at least one of these signatures was authentic. The February 24, 1975 voucher bore the handwritten notation: “Sir; I received this. Tibo Mijares.”

----

 

Wouldn't you question the credibility of this book knowing this was written by someone who was not scrupulous about who paid him for what, and who received money from the number one oligarch during Marcos' regime: the Lopezes?

 

And why not ALSO read the following books from REAL journalists who were once communists, or had been arrested and jailed during martial law but “WOKE-UP” to being brainwashed by black propaganda?

These journalists/authors are:

----

RIGOBERTO TIGLAO - Journalist and author of DEBUNKED and Colossal Deception

Tiglao was arrested in July 1973, together with nearly all of the Communist Party’s Manila-Rizal Regional Committee, which he headed.

He was incarcerated in five Marcos detention centers for about a year and half, together with his late wife, Raquel, from 1973 to 1974: the Philippine Constabulary’s (PC) 5th Constabulary Unit in Camp Crame; that of the Intelligence Service of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (ISAFP) in Camp Aguinaldo; that of the National Intelligence Coordinating Authority in its headquarters at V. Luna Road in Quezon City (where it still is); as well as the Ipil Youth Rehabilitation Center and the maximum security Youth Rehabilitation Center, both in Fort Bonifacio — the latter two being the biggest during the martial law period.

----

CECILIO ARILLO - Journalist and author of Greed and Betrayal, Breakaway, and A Country Imperiled

Arillo was jailed during the martial law regime for his stories on the irregularities in the sugar industry.

Under the Aquino administration, he was again arrested on Dec. 9, 1987, by troops led by Brig. Gen. Ramon Montaño, and jailed without formal charges; after that, armed men broke into his offices and carted off his documents and other valuables; then in 1990, the Department of Justice, under Sen. Frank Drilon, charged him with rebellion. In 1992, unidentified men machine-gunned his house.

In 1998, under the Ramos administration, the Justice Department, whose chief was Sen. Teofisto Guingona, implicated him in the 1986 kidnapping and double murder of labor leader Rolando Olalia and his driver, Leonor Alay-ay.

The background to all these depredations, as Arillo saw it, were the stories he filed as Manila Times columnist and reporter about the corruption, human rights violations, “gross misgovernance, misgovernance, hatred, and vengeance” of the Marcos, Aquino, and Ramos regimes.

----

ROD KAPUNAN - Journalist and author of Reflections on Martial Law: Saving the Republic

Kapunan used to be a high-ranking member of the CPP-NPA in the 60s and 70s and a known propagandist during martial law.

When Marcos was "ousted", Kapunan decided to read all the writings about Marcos, books written by Marcos, studied all the agencies created during the Marcos regime, gathered so much data, and realized that what we hear from the media are all propaganda.

Eventually, Kapunan wrote books "to set the record straight".

----

And special mention the following authors:

JUAN PONCE ENRILE - Author of Juan Ponce Enrile, A Memoir

Juan Ponce Enrile’s career spans six presidencies from Ferdinand Marcos to Benigno S. Aquino III, during which the Philippines metamorphosed from a free-wheeling republic into a brutal dictatorship that eventually gave way to a turbulent return to democratic rule.

Sheer longevity, proximity to power and a forceful personality have made Enrile difficult to trivialize, much less ignore. Neither his friends nor his enemies have the power to exaggerate or misrepresent his gifts as well as his faults; they would have to reckon with the man’s personal point of view, here most eloquently told from where he stood and contributed his share to the nation’s narrative.

LEWIS GLEECK - Author of President Aquino: Sainthood Postponed (banned or out of print in the Philippines)

Mr. Gleeck was a member of the Foreign Service of the United States, serving several times in Washington and in Canada, Finland, Sweden, Austria, Iceland, Norway and Pakistan before arriving in the Philippines, where he retired after six years (1962-1969) as Consul General of the American Embassy in Manila.

He then joined the USAID to work on land reform and cooperatives and subsequently to serve for several years as consultant on base-community relations to the U.S. Navy at Subic Bay. He was a long-time editor of the AHC Bulletin and curator of the AHC library

====================================

Sources:

[1] Wikileaks - Declassified Cable - 1975 February 24 https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1975MANILA02351_b.html

[2] Ruben Diario (1974) Managing the media Filipino style, Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars https://www.tandfonline.com/.../14672715.1974.10413017

[3] Steve Psinakis; A Country Not Even His Own

[4] Sterling Seagrave; The Marcos Dynasty

The bio of these journalists can be found in the preface or introduction of their respective books.

Unquote..."

Edited November 17, 2021 by camiar

[JonKartero]

On 11/16/2021 at 8:43 AM, jubal said:

a counter to your argumant na walang editorial oversight ang social media, is that people are starting to hate established media, because the biases of their owners are being revealed by the social media. dati walang social media, sila lang ang source of information, now with a social media, kahit sino may platform for a very big audience. Dati, yung mga counter-arguments sa mga sinasabi ng media walang platform. Dahil may 'editorial oversight', filtered ang information.

social media is the best and the worst thing to happen. But I appreciate that it happened. Kelangan lang ng utak para hindi maloko sa panahon ng social media. Just be open to all view points, have discernment, then you can navigate through the wild and unfiltered information of the social media age.

The problem with being "open to all view points" is that unproven, baseless myths - like many of the things repeated here - are suddenly put on the same level as established facts. I reasonably trust my discernment, but as this thread illustrates, the discernment of others is not as trustworthy.

Facts aren't a matter of democracy. They're a matter of record. A million people denying Marcos-era atrocities does not magically make the records at Bantayog ng mga Bayani disappear.

[JonKartero]

1 hour ago, camiar said:

I post below an excerpt from a post on Facebook from certain Ms. Thea Tan on Nov. 15, 2021 about PRIMITIVO MIJARES:
 

"Quote:

Marcos critics often cite Primitivo Mijares’ book, The Conjugal Dictatorship, and take this book as ABSOLUTE TRUTH about martial law.

Many of those who cite this book didn’t even read it, nor did they bother to research Mijares’ reputation as a known paid propagandist before and during martial law.

-----

ACCORDING TO WIKILEAKS:

“Mission able confirm Primitivo Mijares, former Chairman, Media Advisory Council (abolished November 1974) and well-known Philippine columnist and Marcos apologist has, in fact, abandoned the New Society.

"Mijares' moved not surprising to Manila community which recognizes him as a complete opportunist who recently was feeling the hot breath of martial law regime for certain recent extra-curricular activities. Allegedly, Mijares gambled away 50,000 dollars of GOP funds during a 1974 Las Vegas visit, misappropriated for personal use 7,000 dollars of the First Lady's (Imelda) personal funds, and attempted to rape a well-connected Philippine Foreign Service secretary while in New York for the Trade Center opening, all of which accumulated to make the prospect of a return to Philippines decreasingly attractive."

Wikileaks also revealed that Mijares received “financial inducements” from Marcos’ political enemies, the Lopezes. [1]

----

Quoting RUBEN DIARIO, in this 1974 article, Managing the media Filipino style:

“The worst of these newspapermen were those who covered the House of Representatives, whose over-100 headline-hungry members were easy pickings for newsmen extortionists. The dean of these Congressional reporters was Mr. Mijares himself (who bragged before martial law that he was worth P3 million), who, upon his appointment as MAC chairman, promptly surrounded himself with his cronies from the Congressional Press Club.

"Mr. Mijares himself is a most interesting case study in media opportunism.” [2]

----

STEVE PSINAKIS, an anti-Marcos critic married into the Lopez family that owns ABS-CBN, wrote in his memoir:

“The US justice department’s investigation revealed that after his February 1975 defection, Mijares did, in fact, extort money from Marcos by feeding him imaginary information for which Marcos was ignorant enough to pay considerable sums. While Mijares was still receiving money from Marcos, he was at the same time lambasting Marcos in the US press, causing the Marcos regime irreparable damage.” [3]

----

According to STERLING SEAGRAVE, in his book, The Marcos Dynasty:

“Ferdinand first tried to discredit Mijares by circulating that he had absconded with government funds, that he was paid $150,000 by the Lopezes to join the anti-Marcos exiles, and that he was staying in the United States because of a liaison with a Filipina exile. (Mijares had left his wife and family in Manila.)

“Meanwhile, Mijares was playing both sides against the middle. After “defecting,” he was secretly accepting money from Ferdinand’s agents in exchange for information about the exiles. The FBI discovered later that Mijares had signed several vouchers for $20,000 and at least one of these signatures was authentic. The February 24, 1975 voucher bore the handwritten notation: “Sir; I received this. Tibo Mijares.”

----

 

Wouldn't you question the credibility of this book knowing this was written by someone who was not scrupulous about who paid him for what, and who received money from the number one oligarch during Marcos' regime: the Lopezes?

 

And why not ALSO read the following books from REAL journalists who were once communists, or had been arrested and jailed during martial law but “WOKE-UP” to being brainwashed by black propaganda?

These journalists/authors are:

----

RIGOBERTO TIGLAO - Journalist and author of DEBUNKED and Colossal Deception

Tiglao was arrested in July 1973, together with nearly all of the Communist Party’s Manila-Rizal Regional Committee, which he headed.

He was incarcerated in five Marcos detention centers for about a year and half, together with his late wife, Raquel, from 1973 to 1974: the Philippine Constabulary’s (PC) 5th Constabulary Unit in Camp Crame; that of the Intelligence Service of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (ISAFP) in Camp Aguinaldo; that of the National Intelligence Coordinating Authority in its headquarters at V. Luna Road in Quezon City (where it still is); as well as the Ipil Youth Rehabilitation Center and the maximum security Youth Rehabilitation Center, both in Fort Bonifacio — the latter two being the biggest during the martial law period.

----

CECILIO ARILLO - Journalist and author of Greed and Betrayal, Breakaway, and A Country Imperiled

Arillo was jailed during the martial law regime for his stories on the irregularities in the sugar industry.

Under the Aquino administration, he was again arrested on Dec. 9, 1987, by troops led by Brig. Gen. Ramon Montaño, and jailed without formal charges; after that, armed men broke into his offices and carted off his documents and other valuables; then in 1990, the Department of Justice, under Sen. Frank Drilon, charged him with rebellion. In 1992, unidentified men machine-gunned his house.

In 1998, under the Ramos administration, the Justice Department, whose chief was Sen. Teofisto Guingona, implicated him in the 1986 kidnapping and double murder of labor leader Rolando Olalia and his driver, Leonor Alay-ay.

The background to all these depredations, as Arillo saw it, were the stories he filed as Manila Times columnist and reporter about the corruption, human rights violations, “gross misgovernance, misgovernance, hatred, and vengeance” of the Marcos, Aquino, and Ramos regimes.

----

 ROD KAPUNAN - Journalist and author of Reflections on Martial Law: Saving the Republic

Kapunan used to be a high-ranking member of the CPP-NPA in the 60s and 70s and a known propagandist during martial law.

When Marcos was "ousted", Kapunan decided to read all the writings about Marcos, books written by Marcos, studied all the agencies created during the Marcos regime, gathered so much data, and realized that what we hear from the media are all propaganda.

Eventually, Kapunan wrote books "to set the record straight".

----

And special mention the following authors:

JUAN PONCE ENRILE - Author of Juan Ponce Enrile, A Memoir

Juan Ponce Enrile’s career spans six presidencies from Ferdinand Marcos to Benigno S. Aquino III, during which the Philippines metamorphosed from a free-wheeling republic into a brutal dictatorship that eventually gave way to a turbulent return to democratic rule.

Sheer longevity, proximity to power and a forceful personality have made Enrile difficult to trivialize, much less ignore. Neither his friends nor his enemies have the power to exaggerate or misrepresent his gifts as well as his faults; they would have to reckon with the man’s personal point of view, here most eloquently told from where he stood and contributed his share to the nation’s narrative.

LEWIS GLEECK - Author of President Aquino: Sainthood Postponed (banned or out of print in the Philippines)

Mr. Gleeck was a member of the Foreign Service of the United States, serving several times in Washington and in Canada, Finland, Sweden, Austria, Iceland, Norway and Pakistan before arriving in the Philippines, where he retired after six years (1962-1969) as Consul General of the American Embassy in Manila.

He then joined the USAID to work on land reform and cooperatives and subsequently to serve for several years as consultant on base-community relations to the U.S. Navy at Subic Bay. He was a long-time editor of the AHC Bulletin and curator of the AHC library

====================================

Sources:

[1] Wikileaks - Declassified Cable - 1975 February 24 https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1975MANILA02351_b.html

[2] Ruben Diario (1974) Managing the media Filipino style, Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars https://www.tandfonline.com/.../14672715.1974.10413017

[3] Steve Psinakis; A Country Not Even His Own

[4] Sterling Seagrave; The Marcos Dynasty

The bio of these journalists can be found in the preface or introduction of their respective books.

Unquote..."

So nice of you to do such diligence on Mijares, but for the authors you consider "trustworthy" you didn't do the same.

Why is it always the case that pro-Marcos sources are never placed under the same level of intense scrutiny?

Back check all of the sources of Tiglao, Arillo, and Kapunan. See where that rabbit hole leads.

[camiar]

4 minutes ago, JonKartero said:

So nice of you to do such diligence on Mijares, but for the authors you consider "trustworthy" you didn't do the same.

Why is it always the case that pro-Marcos sources are never placed under the same level of intense scrutiny?

Back check all of the sources of Tiglao, Arillo, and Kapunan. See where that rabbit hole leads.

Due diligence on Mijares? I did not.

The post is not mine. It just popped up in my Facebook page. But it's worth re-posting, complete with references.

Your idol Primitivo Mijares has been sufficiently demolished. This, alone, invalidates all your arguments. 

[jubal]

12 hours ago, JonKartero said:

The problem with being "open to all view points" is that unproven, baseless myths - like many of the things repeated here - are suddenly put on the same level as established facts. I reasonably trust my discernment, but as this thread illustrates, the discernment of others is not as trustworthy.

Facts aren't a matter of democracy. They're a matter of record. A million people denying Marcos-era atrocities does not magically make the records at Bantayog ng mga Bayani disappear.

Facts are facts. Truths. Emphasizing them as a matter of record as opposed to being a matter of democracy would be a problematic viewpoint imho.

Phrases such as 'history is written by the victors' comes to mind. 

Allowing everyone to record and be heard is always better than suppressing information. What happens next is a battle of ideas and viewpoints where the winner wins on merit and not because there is no opposition.