Kingkongphils Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Good points, but I do not believe that religion impedes the development of science. Just like what they said, some people just makes religion an excuse. Lets take for instance the reproductive health bill. Of course the church will do whatever they can to stop it, just like people who believea that it should be passed. Different people, different belief, both are willing to die for that belief. Many people have died for religion, some are willing to die for that belief. I can say that an aethiest, will be willing to die that there is no God, but again if an aethiest is willing to die to prove that there is no God... Again what is the difference? Quote Link to comment
Kingkongphils Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 After all religion is defined as a set of belief often containing a moral code. So I take it that even aethiest follows a moral code? If you say that you follow the law of man, then bad news for you these laws are based on religion. Take for instance the 10 comandments, i think at least 6/10 is the law of men and you follow it. Quote Link to comment
YoniMaster Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 After all religion is defined as a set of belief often containing a moral code. So I take it that even aethiest follows a moral code? If you say that you follow the law of man, then bad news for you these laws are based on religion. Take for instance the 10 comandments, i think at least 6/10 is the law of men and you follow it.nope sir phillips only 5 out of ten. we as a society have chosen to throw away 50% of what god supposedly put forth and the TOP FIVE. interestingly it's laws of how to behave toward each other none about god. futhermore if you go thru leviticus there are more laws purportedly commanded by "god" including stoning your wife, bashing a child against a stone, burning witches, persecution of homosexuals, and killing your neighbor for working on the sabbath. if you go thru our laws you can find things that may be attributed to religion but if you compare how much of it has made it today i think you'll barely find any. Plus let us not forget these commandments were already in place prior to the ten commandment. the teachings of buddha for example and code of hamurabi both pre-dating not just the ten commandments but the bible. =) plus remember atheism is just non belief that's it, that's the only thing atheism is about, we're not anarchist. we have to follow rules of a society, had i lived at the time id probably pretend to believe coz usually the penalty of non belief at the time was death. Quote Link to comment
YoniMaster Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Good points, but I do not believe that religion impedes the development of science. Just like what they said, some people just makes religion an excuse. Lets take for instance the reproductive health bill. Of course the church will do whatever they can to stop it, just like people who believea that it should be passed. Different people, different belief, both are willing to die for that belief. Many people have died for religion, some are willing to die for that belief. I can say that an aethiest, will be willing to die that there is no God, but again if an aethiest is willing to die to prove that there is no God... Again what is the difference?luckily i dont have to convince you, you only need to research to find out how the church considered early scientist as heretics galileo and copernicus are a very good examples already. human progress was essentially stunted for a good 1700 years, it was only in the past 300 hundred years after the reformation and the enlightenment did science truly progress. if that's not impedance then we probably have different definitions. =) Quote Link to comment
Kingkongphils Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Well like you said, you people follow the law of society, and in that time or for the remainder of the human life religion dictates those laws, weather it be budha, thor, allah or God, these are the laws of society. Nobody really is stopping you to do what you want. If you want to abort your baby, then you can look for someone who would do it. If you want to k*ll for research then you can do it. Nobody is really stopping you. If the politicians want to pass the RH bill then they go ahead. But you cant blame religion or religious people to do what they believe in. Kung kasalanan pa dn ng religion yun e d dapat kung hindi ka nanainiwala sa christmas e dapat ibalik mo ang "christmas" bonus mo. Or wag kang mag holy week, balik mo ung OT pay mo, or pumasoj ka sa trabaho.Point here is religion is a fact of life and we are in the house of religious people. When you go to a muslim country you wear what they prescribe. When you are inside something you follow its rules. So to blame religion for impeding. I dont think that is fair. People just dont have the balls to go against the flow. It is that person that impedes himself. Sa isang grupo kung ayaw kumain o uminom.sa isang lugar ang karamihan at ikaw ayaw mo. Hindi bat kung san mas marami gusto doon kyo. At kung ayaw mo, wala nmn pipigil syo hindi ba. Personally I try to do righteous things only because I fear God. Religion does not make your decision, only you make your decision. Even GOD himself could not meddle with your decision. Quote Link to comment
Kingkongphils Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Again I would like to make it clear that I dont intend to convert any non believers, or debate them into submission. What I dont like is people blaming religion for things that happen or are not happening. Quote Link to comment
YoniMaster Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) mind you the buddha didn't intend on establishing a religion and does not believe in a god, i simply stated examples that laws can be formed with out the need for god. anyway, yeah, we're not really debating, just presented things to demonstrate what i have previously stated. and how most of our laws does not come from the bible. ive also stated that religion was basically one of our first forms of government so i echo what you said i only expect our disagreement to come from whether it's man made or a god started it. =) Edited January 31, 2016 by democritus 1 Quote Link to comment
Kingkongphils Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 True... I for one think that religion is way more powerful than any governmemt. The longest wars and the bloodiest wars are all because of religion. Quote Link to comment
Kingkongphils Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 However, if you think about it religion is a part of life way way before. Probably the first humans. What with all the sacrifices they make to their gods. So religion is as old as human and perhaps we will never know if there is a real God. But for me, since it does not impede my to live my life in a fullfilling way. I choose to believe GOD. I may not be good or righteous, but believing in my God and that he makes everything happen for a reason. Let me tell you one story. A scientist challanged God, he said God we do not need you, we can do everything you did. We can even clone humans. So God said lets have a contest, whoever can make a human the fastest wins. So as the scientist goes on to get a handful of dirt. GOD said, now hold on there partner, go get your own dirt. Quote Link to comment
Julianda Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 However, if you think about it religion is a part of life way way before. Probably the first humans. What with all the sacrifices they make to their gods. So religion is as old as human and perhaps we will never know if there is a real God. But for me, since it does not impede my to live my life in a fullfilling way. I choose to believe GOD. I may not be good or righteous, but believing in my God and that he makes everything happen for a reason. Let me tell you one story. A scientist challanged God, he said God we do not need you, we can do everything you did. We can even clone humans. So God said lets have a contest, whoever can make a human the fastest wins. So as the scientist goes on to get a handful of dirt. GOD said, now hold on there partner, go get your own dirt. I can't agree. Because if you look at the history of religion, it is as merely as old as farming or Agriculture. It was stated that farming might have given us the the building blocks of organised religion. They manipulate nature - by praying a good harvest. It started then to develop the relationship between the man and the nature, and man to god. They pray directly to god to give them sunshine or rain. Though at the end of the day, with the advanced farming technology that we have today, as far back as 10,000 years ago, we still need the sun to shine and rain to fall to produce a good harvest. To make the story short, we can see now where the framework of organised religion, the priest and the church may have started from. Anyway, I seem to be getting off topic now, so I'd stop here in the meantime. Quote Link to comment
YoniMaster Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I can't agree. Because if you look at the history of religion, it is as merely as old as farming or Agriculture. It was stated that farming might have given us the the building blocks of organised religion. They manipulate nature - by praying a good harvest. It started then to develop the relationship between the man and the nature, and man to god. They pray directly to god to give them sunshine or rain. Though at the end of the day, with the advanced farming technology that we have today, as far back as 10,000 years ago, we still need the sun to shine and rain to fall to produce a good harvest. To make the story short, we can see now where the framework of organised religion, the priest and the church may have started from. Anyway, I seem to be getting off topic now, so I'd stop here in the meantime.hey I don't want to assume you're a non-believer too, i am most interested on why you became one if you are a non-beliver, from this post i can tell this is one of your reasons. i might disagree a little on when religion started coz they found out, our cousins the neanderthals practice some from of religious ceremony despite being a hunter gatherer society. looking forward to reading it. Quote Link to comment
Kingkongphils Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I can't agree. Because if you look at the history of religion, it is as merely as old as farming or Agriculture. It was stated that farming might have given us the the building blocks of organised religion. They manipulate nature - by praying a good harvest. It started then to develop the relationship between the man and the nature, and man to god. They pray directly to god to give them sunshine or rain. Though at the end of the day, with the advanced farming technology that we have today, as far back as 10,000 years ago, we still need the sun to shine and rain to fall to produce a good harvest. To make the story short, we can see now where the framework of organised religion, the priest and the church may have started from. Anyway, I seem to be getting off topic now, so I'd stop here in the meantime.I dont know where you read that farming or agriculture is not as old as human, however like what was previously commented there is the hunter gatherer time. And reallu its not just about farming. It was known that even the seasons were thought of as Gods, some animals, mighty animals were also thought of as Gods. So religion may not be as old as humans but it is definetly a close second. (For me its as old as human since I believe in God and I dont believe in the evolution of man theory). But you get my point about the religion and its age right? Quote Link to comment
Julianda Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I dont know where you read that farming or agriculture is not as old as human, however like what was previously commented there is the hunter gatherer time. And reallu its not just about farming. It was known that even the seasons were thought of as Gods, some animals, mighty animals were also thought of as Gods. So religion may not be as old as humans but it is definetly a close second. (For me its as old as human since I believe in God and I dont believe in the evolution of man theory). But you get my point about the religion and its age right? It's for you to find out then. I do not have to put them into details here since we would only tend to go beyond the topic. Instead, just look for the "Beginning of Religion", "Early Agriculture and Religion" and/or "Cave Art and Religion" and consider them as reading for pleasure. Watch out for the next post of mine. Quote Link to comment
Julianda Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 hey I don't want to assume you're a non-believer too, i am most interested on why you became one if you are a non-beliver, from this post i can tell this is one of your reasons. i might disagree a little on when religion started coz they found out, our cousins the neanderthals practice some from of religious ceremony despite being a hunter gatherer society. looking forward to reading it. Ok just for your INFO. Please check the subsequent pages/posts from the old thread and you would know whether I am a non-believer or otherwise. Enjoy. Page 27 of the old thread. Page 28 Page 29 Page 30 Page 31 Page 32 Page 33 Quote Link to comment
Kingkongphils Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I dony know what your point is as all my statements are with probably. If it is the age of religion we are debating here, well I am a believer so the book I am reading is the Bible and the bible says that he created adam and eve and they believed in God, SO like what I said it may not be as old as humans but it is the next oldest. However just to fancy the conversation, nobody really know when religion started or the belief of a supernatural started, maybe the proof was dated but the belief could not be traced, and I dont think it can be said that its just as old as farming or agriculture. May like you said "organied religion" can be dated, but religion in its meaning I can believe that its just as old as farming or agriculture. I mean imagine a pre historic man who only knows to survive, he waits for his prey and suddenly as he approaches his prey a lightning struck his prey and literaly consumes it and left the man with just enough for him. And then it happened again the next day exactly the same way. Do you think that man will think to himself that its because of the positive and negative charge that is why the lightning hits my prey. Hell no, what he thinks is that because of the loud sound and the mighty flash, there is someone out there that wants him to eat just what is given to him. If you don not believe Take for more closer example. When you go to a very remote place, a place of the wild, the secluded places where technology has not reached it, isnt it that they believe that things that happen are all because of a God or a superbeing. Now religion in other terms is a part of a person that tells him that what he cant explain ir comprehend is because of a God or a superbeing. Now what does early man have? Nothing. And what do human beings do when they cant understand they believe in something more powerful. Truth be told, I think that the none belief of God is youngest form of "religion". That is why I think the belief of God is as early as human themselves, because "questions" and curiosity is as old as man, and the amswers that cant be answered by man, is because of a God, this religion Quote Link to comment
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